• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas

Status
Not open for further replies.
It was also the first time I was dissapointed with a Sonic title, something about it didn't click with me.
Tons didn't click with me. The controls felt loose as hell, the constant dialog during the stages was grating, the stages were too damn long (Team Sonic, mind), replaying what basically amounted to the same game four times just to see the ending was insulting, reaching the special stages was an exercise in tedium, etc.
 

qq more

Member
Tons didn't click with me. The controls felt loose as hell, the constant dialog during the stages was grating, the stages were too damn long (Team Sonic, mind), replaying what basically amounted to the same game four times just to see the ending was insulting, reaching the special stages was an exercise in tedium, etc.

And don't forget the god awful missions with Team Chaotix. That mansion level... fuck you Sega :(
 
And don't forget the god awful missions with Team Chaotix. That mansion level... fuck you Sega :(

Oh bloody hell, that was ri-god-damn-diculous!
Even better is whenever you have to use the tornado thing with Espio you turn invisible leaving Vector and Charmy standing around like lemons.

On a side note Eggman should make an army of those robots that can hold characters captive, they'd be unstoppable.
I may have said the same thing last year when I endured the game once more.
 
On a side note Eggman should make an army of those robots that can hold characters captive, they'd be unstoppable.
I may have said the same thing last year when I endured the game once more.

Heroes_Klagen.PNG


EDIT: Whoops, I thought you were saying that in a manner that suggested that they didn't exist.

That aside, I remember loving that game back then just for the crazy Team Sonic levels and music.

I also remember the fact that each team had a theme song.

Speaking of that and Chaotix's mansion level, has anyone ever heard this?
 

TheOGB

Banned
Heroes was shite from the story to the gameplay to the dialogue to the "SHAA!"

It was alright enough to play through, but dear god was it stupid
 
I had it on loan on the gamecube and gave it back to the girl who lent it to me like a day later, it was that shitty to me I only got about half way in.

I actually own the xbox version now but only because it was £1.99 or something in CEX last year, it likes to lock up my 360 after about 20 minutes.
 
I rented the Xbox version and made a concerted effort to get as far into it as possible. I got up to the Mystic Mansion boss as Team Sonic; I forget how far I managed to get as the others. Probably not very, because I was focusing my efforts on Team Sonic first and foremost (I was gonna beat the game as one of the teams, dammit - except for the part where I never did).

Bought it from GameStop on PC for $5 many, many years later, after deciding not to bother revisiting it (changed my mind, I guess). Only played up through Frog Forest or so, this time around.

Why doesn't the PC version have the option to use the Japanese voice track? So stupid. I think Tweaker from Sonic Retro offered to give me the files to attempt swapping them around (despite me not really knowing the format), but he never did, and considering he's banned from Sonic Retro these days (some incident involving a young girl; I don't know the details nor do I want to, it's his business), I doubt it'll be happening any time soon.
 

Blueblur1

Member
No, I think a lot of people that were over the age of 15 when SA2 ended would agree with you on that one. Problem is, Sonic Team got in to this habit of bringing characters back just because they were popular.

It more or less started with Sonic Adventure 2, where, according to "historical records" (aka the news archives of SonicHQ.com), Sonic Team retooled a significant portion of the game in order to make room for slotting Tails as a playable character when he wasn't, originally.

Sonic Team got it in their heads to always bring back fan-favorite characters or suffer the wrath of the whiners. So Knuckles stuck around long after he was useful, Shadow stuck around long after he was useful, so on and so forth.

I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I believe Shadow should've been left alone after SA2.

His purpose was fufilled.

I felt the same way when the game first came out. I wasn't surprised when he came back in Heroes as I was already wise to Sonic Team's practice of bringing back popular characters but I was annoyed by it.
Sonic Heroes' cutscenes embarrassed me, even back when I was excited for that fucking game.

The entire game was embarrassing. I remember being extremely disappointed when the first screenshots were published. The game's inferior graphical fidelity was immediately noticeable and the concept of throwing so many characters into the game when they would just end up being clones of each other seemed stupid even to my 16 year old self. Heroes was the first Sonic game I never bothered replaying after having beaten. To this day I have not touched it again.
 
I'm okay with Heroes mostly, though there is no denying all the issues mentioned (the dialogue, level design, going through the same levels 4 times - 5 if you do super hard mode)...and this coming from the fact I 100% it...TWICE(sadly I used to LIKE Neo Metal Sonic, but later on I realized how ridiculous it was and a waste considering the total time it had appeared). I've also got to say not giving Tails and Knuckles super forms was lazy. What makes me a bit sad though, Heroes was the last Console game featuring Deem Bristow's performance as Dr. Eggman (not counting Sonic Advance 3 or the Riders series reusing his clips). Still, there are days were I do consider replaying it on my Wii.

As for Shadow? he came back: fine, I was okay with that...then came the robot clone scenario, then his own game with the ridiculous origins, WTF.
 

qq more

Member
I actually loved Sonic Heroes when I first got it... but only because I was blinded by hype. It quickly wore down because I realized how awful that game was.
 

Emitan

Member
I actually loved Sonic Heroes when I first got it... but only because I was blinded by hype. It quickly wore down because I realized how awful that game was.

I realized it sucked when I played a demo of it at a store. I still bought it for some reason. Damn you, fangirlism :(
 

qq more

Member
I realized it sucked when I played a demo of it at a store. I still bought it for some reason. Damn you, fangirlism :(

I played the demo and thought it was awesome... at the time

I think I was really hyped for the game because some of the levels resembled the style of the Genesis games (Seaside Hill looking like a beach version of Green Hill for example) and CHAOTIX. Oh how naive I was...


But I always always thought the style of the game looked annoying and embarrassing. :S
 
If the stages weren't twice as long as they needed to be, I'd probably prefer Heroes to Adventure 2. It's not as good as the Sonic/Shadow stages in the Adventure games, but taking everything else about those titles into account it's not particularly worse than them overall.

I never had a problem with the Knuckles levels in Adventure 1 and 2, I thought the exploration was a nice contrast to Sonic's linear running levels.
The only problems are when they did levels with shitty gimmicks like Aquatic Mines or Mad Space.

I'm okay with them in Adventure 1, but the changes to the radar system in Adventure 2 ruin them.
 
Even at 11 when SA2 came out, the spastic plot and horrific dialogue was enough to make me blush. Heroes being a step below that made it all the more grating. The long filler stages, forgettable music (save maybe Bingo Highway and the Bonus Stage BGM), repetitive environments, the 26 robot fucking carnivals Eggman throws at you made the whole experience an extremely bland, cheap, incoherent mess. I guess playing it on the PS2 first didn't help.

Playing the PC version years later was a more tolerable experience, but still the childish blandness I remembered long ago.

For this reason I'm not really a fan of the Egg Pawns. Even seeing them in Colors somehow made the game seem "cheaper".
I wonder if the rumor that Sony twisted Sega's arm into porting the game to the PS2, and greatly diminishing their time and resources was true...
 

BlackJace

Member
If the stages weren't twice as long as they needed to be, I'd probably prefer Heroes to Adventure 2. It's not as good as the Sonic/Shadow stages in the Adventure games, but taking everything else about those titles into account it's not particularly worse than them overall.



I'm okay with them in Adventure 1, but the changes to the radar system in Adventure 2 ruin them.

There were changes to the radar system?
 
I remember being extremely disappointed when the first screenshots were published. The game's inferior graphical fidelity was immediately noticeable and the concept of throwing so many characters into the game when they would just end up being clones of each other seemed stupid even to my 16 year old self.
I definitely didn't share your unenthusiasm. Seeing a return to the colorful aesthetics of the Genesis games, the return of Metal Sonic with an awesome¹ new design, the return of the goddamn Chaotix (hey where's Mighty?), the expansion of Sonic 2 and 3&K's having Tails following you to include Knuckles following you - and both being playable, at that... It was like a fanboy wet dream. I could even gloss over how shitty the shiny latex everyone was suddenly wearing over their entire bodies looked because everything else looked awesome.

Too bad the execution was awful, something that became quickly apparent to even a cursory playthrough.

I think I was really hyped for the game because some of the levels resembled the style of the Genesis games (Seaside Hill looking like a beach version of Green Hill for example) and CHAOTIX. Oh how naive I was...
Pretty much this.

forgettable music (save maybe Bingo Highway and the Bonus Stage BGM)
This is actually one thing I don't feel Heroes has a problem with. I remember most of the tracks to that game pretty damn well (except the two Rail Canyon stages; those mostly lack a melody and suck majorly). Both Seaside Hills, at least one of the Grand Metropolises, the first Casino stage (Bingo Highway sucked, honestly), Frog Forest (which sounded a lot like something Spencer Nilsen would compose; don't care so much for the jungle stage thereafter), both Mystic Mansion tunes (prefer the first one, though, for the cartoonier feel), both Egg Fleet ones (prefer the second one that sounds like Mega Man 5's title screen), the non-Emerald Special Stages, a fair deal of the menu themes... Yeah, the game's got an awesome soundtrack.

I have more difficulty remembering Shadow's music, though. Only one that really comes to mind is that sky ruin stage, which I only know so well because of Melpontro posting a thousand videos of his Generations version of it.

I wonder if the rumor that Sony twisted Sega's arm into porting the game to the PS2, and greatly diminishing their time and resources was true...
I'd put about as much faith into this claim as I would the claim that Sonic 2K6 only sucks because Microsoft demanded a Christmas release for it (oh, somebody demanded that, alright, but I'd wager it was internal to Sega, and not any external company making the demands).

There were changes to the radar system?
Yeah; in SA1, you can go after any of the three emeralds you want, and the radar will clue you in to their location. In SA2, it will lock out all but the first, then the second, then the third. You might stumble upon the others by accident, but the radar wouldn't have helped you to find it unless you found it in that order.

(¹And by "awesome" I mean "looked awesome to 14/15-year-old me but looks really silly and had no real point now that I look back on it at 24".)
 

BlackJace

Member
Yeah; in SA1, you can go after any of the three emeralds you want, and the radar will clue you in to their location. In SA2, it will lock out all but the first, then the second, then the third. You might stumble upon the others by accident, but the radar wouldn't have helped you to find it unless you found it in that order.

(¹And by "awesome" I mean "looked awesome to 14/15-year-old me but looks really silly and had no real point now that I look back on it at 24".)

Huh, never noticed that.
 

Sciz

Member
Frog Forest is... nice.

I can't quite pin down exactly what's wrong with Heroes' music, but almost all of it comes off as somehow incomplete. There're a bunch of tracks like Frog Forest and Rail Canyon that're just plain missing a melody, and on the flipside it's got tracks like Grand Metropolis and Final Fortress that have a melody but no interesting harmony, or at best have both but flicker back and forth between them without ever bringing it all together as a complete whole. The percussion's pretty boring across the board, too.

Compare the original Final Fortress to its arrangement in S&SASR DS. It's still not a great track, but it's a much better balanced one that I much prefer.
 

BlackJace

Member
Dialogue from Heroes.

Sonic: That's a self destruct switch! Get on it and press down!
*presses switch*
Sonic: Never thought it would actually self destruct!
Knuckles: It's blown to pieces!
Tails: I wonder how it self destructed?

I vividly remember that scene in Final Fortress. So bad.
 

Blueblur1

Member
Aside from Seaside Hill and it's doppelgänger, I always thought the music in Heroes was absolute dogshit. I agree with Sciz that it sounds incomplete. Compared to SA1 and 2, it sounds like it was thrown together in weeks (much like the rest of the game).
 
Frog Forest is... nice.

I can't quite pin down exactly what's wrong with Heroes' music, but almost all of it comes off as somehow incomplete. There're a bunch of tracks like Frog Forest and Rail Canyon that're just plain missing a melody, and on the flipside it's got tracks like Grand Metropolis and Final Fortress that have a melody but no interesting harmony, or at best have both but flicker back and forth between them without ever bringing it all together as a complete whole. The percussion's pretty boring across the board, too.

Compare the original Final Fortress to its arrangement in S&SASR DS. It's still not a great track, but it's a much better balanced one that I much prefer.
The DS version is actually pretty good, as you say there are a bunch of tracks that are okay in heroes but feel like they're missing something.
I will say that Ocean Palace is one I outright like.
 
Dialogue from Heroes.

Sonic: That's a self destruct switch! Get on it and press down!
*presses switch*
Sonic: Never thought it would actually self destruct!
Knuckles: It's blown to pieces!
Tails: I wonder how it self destructed?

I vividly remember that scene in Final Fortress. So bad.
That actually sounds hilarious. You're clearly joshing me, that's far too clever to actually be from Heroes.
 
I can barely remember half or the Heroes sound track, but I consider it decent upon listening to a few tracks now.

I definitely didn't share your unenthusiasm. Seeing a return to the colorful aesthetics of the Genesis games, the return of Metal Sonic with an awesome¹ new design, the return of the goddamn Chaotix (hey where's Mighty?), the expansion of Sonic 2 and 3&K's having Tails following you to include Knuckles following you - and both being playable, at that... It was like a fanboy wet dream. I could even gloss over how shitty the shiny latex everyone was suddenly wearing over their entire bodies looked because everything else looked awesome.

one part of why I do like about Heroes, sure during the Adventure titles it was trying something different...but it was nice to come back to that, have no idea why they decided to slap on the shiney effect on the character models, it didn't add to the cartoony effect, just made it awkward.

But yea, overall execution is key and Heroes did not pull that off well.

Also, I would've like Mighty to return in some capacity(redesigning him to not confuse the younger fans with Shadow should be easy enough)...the Missing Poster in Generations was such a tease.

That actually sounds hilarious. You're clearly joshing me, that's far too clever to actually be from Heroes.

Nah man, that's straight from a Team Sonic run of Final Fortress :p

Yea, THAT I remember...I wonder how those recording sessions went.
 
They had to give EVERY member of Team Sonic a line of dialog, even if it's just rephrasing the same stupid-ass thing another person said.
 
All this talk about Sonic Heroes sent me searching through old Sonic related threads for my re-run through of it last year, after much searching it turns out it was in fact tucked away in the Sonic Generations OT.

What goes up must come down...
Yet my feet don't touch the ground...
When it starts going horribly downhill
The Finale

But while I was searching I came across something incredible, Beef loves hill top zone music.
And Sciz and Schala, WHAT IS THIS?!, I thought we were music buddies, you were supposed to be my friends!
 

Emitan

Member
Dialogue from Heroes.

Sonic: That's a self destruct switch! Get on it and press down!
*presses switch*
Sonic: Never thought it would actually self destruct!
Knuckles: It's blown to pieces!
Tails: I wonder how it self destructed?

I vividly remember that scene in Final Fortress. So bad.

I can still hear it in my mind.
 

OMG Aero

Member
I am okay with the voice acting in Sonic Heroes just for WORTHLESS CONSUMER MODELS and ANNIHILATE ANNIHILATE ANNIHILATE ANNIHILATE ANNIHILATE.
 
Sonic Heroes has an awesome OST.

Eh, I dunno. Sonic Heroes was about the time it solidified in my mind that Jun Senoue was not a fan of melody. The song for Rail Canyon doesn't even feel finished; it's all chorus. Like somebody told him, "I dunno, just screw around on the guitar for a couple minutes."

It has a few songs I like - but most of the ones I like are the ones Jun Senoue did not solo with his guitar (and boy, are there a lot of those).
 

Sciz

Member
And Sciz and Schala, WHAT IS THIS?!, I thought we were music buddies, you were supposed to be my friends!

Pure and unfiltered cold, hard truth. The DKC soundtracks are... kind of like Heroes', actually, just better produced by an order of magnitude. Solid background music, but not very listenable independently.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
Eh, I dunno. Sonic Heroes was about the time it solidified in my mind that Jun Senoue was not a fan of melody. The song for Rail Canyon doesn't even feel finished; it's all chorus. Like somebody told him, "I dunno, just screw around on the guitar for a couple minutes."

It has a few songs I like - but most of the ones I like are the ones Jun Senoue did not solo with his guitar (and boy, are there a lot of those).

I really like in particular the character themes, to me the good out weighs some of the bad. I don't find any of tracks terrible in it, though. I can say it's definitely not Sonic Adventure level, but I like it.
 

BHZ Mayor

Member
Pure and unfiltered cold, hard truth. The DKC soundtracks are... kind of like Heroes', actually, just better produced by an order of magnitude. Solid background music, but not very listenable independently.

More like impure and dirty warm, soggy LIES!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom