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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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Azure Dream
Member
Got back from the comic shop a bit ago with 231-234 and SU #37 (and 228, and finally read my copy of 226). Still have lots of holes, but a better idea, and I saw a scanned image of
, so I understand that.
And I have read them all! Man is it so refreshing how much better the comic art has gotten. Even when they were going back and drawing things like SatAM/old Archie-style Robotnik flopping around it was great. Pretty obvious reference to SatAM too, the line
It seems like they've totally excised the whole "current Eggman is Robo-Robotnik" plot point from a while back, which is probably for the best. That caused so many issues.
Woo, comic book drama!
how Sally got roboticized
And I have read them all! Man is it so refreshing how much better the comic art has gotten. Even when they were going back and drawing things like SatAM/old Archie-style Robotnik flopping around it was great. Pretty obvious reference to SatAM too, the line
"Where were you when the brains were being handed out?" coming from Mecha Sally.
I think there'll be a focus on Antoine's early recovery, then Bunnie trying to go do something impulsive and stupid, like get herself roboticized again, which she'll be talked out of on the brink. Then she'll probably stick with Antoine while he recovers... if he recovers. The end caption left it a bit open, but the title of the next issue and the way it was framed... maybe Ian did actually down Antoine. Seems unlikely, especially since Sally was just ripped from the group, and technically ripped apart, kind of voiding an easy deroboticization.
Woo, comic book drama!
Hot Coldman
Banned
So I was looking through YouTube links and, being quite fond of them a few years back, I saw a video called 'ScrewAttack's Top 5 Best/Worst Sonic games' or some such: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85gYe7IxJXw&feature=related
I know, I know, it's ScrewAttack, but the list is kinda baffling. I agree with their number one choice, but Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Adventure are both miles away from being amongst the best of anything. Sonic 2 needs the recognition. And Sonic R's music is so ridiculous you have to love it.
(I guess they made that list before the 2006 LP was released)
I know, I know, it's ScrewAttack, but the list is kinda baffling. I agree with their number one choice, but Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Adventure are both miles away from being amongst the best of anything. Sonic 2 needs the recognition. And Sonic R's music is so ridiculous you have to love it.
(I guess they made that list before the 2006 LP was released)
son of a
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Sonic Adventure, Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic CD being better than Sonic 1? I refuse to take that list seriously.
Sonic R and Sonic 3D Blast are pretty awful though, but worse than Sonic 2k6?
Oh I remember this list.
The choices are stupid. I mean, I like Sonic Advance 3 and Adventure but they're seriously not great. Adventure aged like shit and introduced a bunch of issues the franchise had for years and Advance 3's levels aren't really something to write home about.
EDIT: Anyone thinking 3D Blast is worse than 06 has obviously not played both of the games. 3D Blast was just boring to many (as far as complaint goes) while 06 is a fucking painful.
The choices are stupid. I mean, I like Sonic Advance 3 and Adventure but they're seriously not great. Adventure aged like shit and introduced a bunch of issues the franchise had for years and Advance 3's levels aren't really something to write home about.
EDIT: Anyone thinking 3D Blast is worse than 06 has obviously not played both of the games. 3D Blast was just boring to many (as far as complaint goes) while 06 is a fucking painful.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The worst part is them saying Adventure controls well, honestly. The rest is whatever, but I consider that bit a straight up lie.
As for Flickie's Island vs 2006, well, I'll say this: Traveller's Tales on a bad day are just super dull. Sonic Team on a bad day are broken and fucking horrifying.
As for Flickie's Island vs 2006, well, I'll say this: Traveller's Tales on a bad day are just super dull. Sonic Team on a bad day are broken and fucking horrifying.
nintendoman58
Member
Oh lulz, that list.
They also did a list for the top 10 worst remakes/reboots. With Sonic 06 being number 3.
They also did a list for the top 10 worst remakes/reboots. With Sonic 06 being number 3.
Azure Dream
Member
That's such of a reminder of how confusing and probably lost someone is playing that fight the first time, even if they have experience with Sonic games. You're given all these tools, and all these things going on, and no clear feedback on most of your actions, and non-stop "help" from annoying voice overs which won't give you a second of silence...
And all it basically amounts to is "boost in the middle and you'll eventually win."
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Finished pokecapn's LP of Generations. Overall it was pretty boring. The game is actually good, but not fun-to-watch good like Colors, and definitely not "fun-to-watch-for-the-schadenfreude" that 2k6 and Unleashed were.
I've never watched their Black Knight LP to completion. The commentating in it is awfully dull.
I've never watched their Black Knight LP to completion. The commentating in it is awfully dull.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
You say it's not "easy", but
it sure is convenient that basically the very same issue Sally gets roboticized is the one where we discover that when Naugus accidentally crystalized Bunnie's robot parts and then decrystalized them that it magically restored her arms and legs to flesh and blood again (despite an issue years ago where Rotor warned she could never be deroboticized due to the modifications they made). Short of some kind of bait and switch where Naugus gets trapped somewhere for an eternity or killed somehow, I figure it's only a matter of "when" the real Sally returns. It's just finding the right circumstances for Naugus to do it.
The LP's not over yet. Pokecapn's mentioned on twitter that like with Unleashed and Colors they will be going back and re-visiting levels now that Pokecapn has a greater grasp on how to play.
I was actually kind of hoping they'd do all the challenge missions, too. I want to see how they react to Vector's. Or Rouge's one in Seaside Hill.
Azure Dream
Member
See, I was going to comment on that but hacked it out, but one key difference is
there was still flesh-and-blood of Bunnie to work with, as it were, she was only partially roboticized. So you could write some mumbo-jumbo rule about the magic "growing out" from the existing body (but in a G-rated way, obviously). Sally's both completely roboticized and has had her original parts swapped out and altered. There's also the possibility that Bunnie's restoration is only temporary, or turns out to be an illusion.
Wouldn't it be a nasty little twist if Bunnie realized it never actually worked, and she could have actually stopped Metal if she hadn't been taken in by a trick?
Wouldn't it be a nasty little twist if Bunnie realized it never actually worked, and she could have actually stopped Metal if she hadn't been taken in by a trick?
BlazeHedgehog
Member
But at that point you can simply say "Why? Because comics." Not that I'm discounting it, of course, because there are a lot of publications out there that actually use "Because comics." as a legitimate excuse for things to happen.
In other news, decided to watch SatAM on Netflix. I really don't remember this.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I enjoyed their freak-out at Dr Robotnik. Glad to hear it's not over, I wanna see them on a good day (and also what hilariously bad songs they choose to play over levels).
Shadow Hog
Member
Hot Coldman
Banned
That 20 Years of Sonic LP is pretty damn good so far. The conversation is fun- you can tell these guys are more used to podcasting than LPing, and it pays off- and they're pretty even-handed with their appraisal of the game (on Sonic 1 so far, and they're not pulling any punches- yet they still seem into it enough).
Seeing as they've already touched on Mario vs Sonic playground arguments and Sonic comics, I hope they don't run out of shit to talk about. I'll slog through them all.
Seeing as they've already touched on Mario vs Sonic playground arguments and Sonic comics, I hope they don't run out of shit to talk about. I'll slog through them all.
I'm almost finished with Sonic Adventure (18/20) and the only time I've skipped anything was Chaotix because the level design is horrible and I don't want to watch people being lost for 20 minutes.
Professor Beef
Banned
...DA HELL DID I JUST READ
tiggerkiddo
Member
I just realized I've never really watched SaTam and only enjoyed AoSth. I should give it a shot.
Nocturnowl
Member
I'm not sure but i'm willing to bet the hedgehog knows
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Ever wondered about the identity of Jack the Ripper, who shot JFK and Olof Palme, where Jimmy Hoffa's body is hidden or where Madeleine McCann might be?
Hot Coldman
Banned
Just reached Sonic CD in the 20 Years LP. Yikes, I'm glad I first experienced it via the PSN version because the original... the loading transitions are nowhere near as smooth. That 'Now Loading' screen is terrible!
I hope they don't shit all over it, because it shits all over Sonic 2 (my previous favourite) in my eyes.
I hope they don't shit all over it, because it shits all over Sonic 2 (my previous favourite) in my eyes.
Shadow Hog
Member
They must be playing the PC/Gems version; IIRC the Sega/Mega CD original didn't have any "loading screens", it just showed you a black screen until it loaded.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Think it's Gems, seeing as they were playing STH/2/Spinball via MC+. The loading screen looks like some awful MS Paint job.
Shadow Hog
Member
It kind of is. It's just Little Planet from D.A. Garden/Play Music, with the words "Now Loading, Please Wait" tossed on.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
It's okay. I didn't watch them play any of the major games, but watching them try and play something like Tails Adventure or Sonic Battle really makes me think of all those bad GiantBomb quicklooks where they have no idea what they're doing, fumble around in the dark, and end up making the game look kind of bad in the process.
Think it's Gems, seeing as they were playing STH/2/Spinball via MC+. The loading screen looks like some awful MS Paint job.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's Gems. They do other games in Gems Collection and mention how it includes "that awful version of Sonic CD".
Azure Dream
Member
It's not that generalized. I just gave a reason. With Bunnie there's a "real" part of her body, and the stuff that was replaced could have been based off that, I've seen that magic trope before. With Sally, she's all robot now, and not even all there. With Bunnie it may have been less like deroboticization, and more like replacement, since those weren't her original limbs anymore anyway. But based off her existing body. (I guess you could go two-step, dero the existing bits THEN do the Bunnie trick, but maybe Bunnie wasn't deroed to begin with, depending on how they frame it.)
Ian's probably thought this out one way or another, and he knows we expect a cheap "easy out" to be the usual thing. So there probably is a reason of some sort why it's "not that simple." I wouldn't even be shocked with if we end up with a Jules/Uncle Chuck situation, where even if Sally gets her mind back, she's stuck as a robot for a long while.
My guess is they really wanted to do a certain special effect (Sonic running through the monster), but they couldn't get doing it to a fleshy creature through broadcast standards. So they did the robot thing at the end, and were like "Fuck it, we don't want to waste any more time working on this, 'Because reasons.'"
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
"Didn't we kill, like, two of these guys?" "Where's Mephiles?" :lol
"So did Norio Wakamoto do a person in this?" had me cracking up.
That final boss continues to be a complete and utter mess. There are so many things going on: the background design and level design is a bit of a mess and rather chaotic (though I guess that's what they wanted), there's a ton of background noise which is simply unneeded and useless, you don't truly need half of the mechanics to even get the "Can't Touch This" trophy like Classic Sonic's dash, Time Eater's doing a billion things at once... And you have no flippin' clue what to do!
It's just poor design even though the only thing you really need to do is boost to win (though one could argue that boosting to win is probably poor design). Stupid.
...It's nice to see that they had issues with the final boss too...
I wouldn't be surprised if not that many people played Sonic 2006 to list it prior to the LP being released. There was nothing to vicariously live through at that point.
That list is dreadful, by the way. Sonic 2006 is hands-down the worst Sonic game I've ever played. The other choices aren't that great either.
Why don't I remember that? I remember renting a video with that episode on it when I was little, but I guess it went in one ear and out the other, or I probably took it at face value at the time.
What does this all even mean? What did I read? @_@
Yeah, same. I tell myself that I will get through it one day, try to sit down and watch it, and I just can't do it.Regulus Tera said:
Hot Coldman
Banned
I've reached Knuckles Chaotix in the 20 Years LP. Firstly, why is the story of Sonic 3 and Knuckles more interesting to me than most modern games? There's deceit, redemption, a mysterious rogue, two valiant heroes, a sweet subplot involving 2 sets of Emeralds, and a sweet fucking space station... again.
And secondly, holy crap, I never realised Generations used tunes from Chaotix. Weeeeiiiirrrrd.
And secondly, holy crap, I never realised Generations used tunes from Chaotix. Weeeeiiiirrrrd.
Professor Beef
Banned
Fuck yeah, chili dogs for dinner.
Professor Beef
Banned
Azure Dream
Member
The most painful thing is that if the levels were shorter, the glitches would be less of an issue. But because you can dedicate over 20 minutes (with loading) to trying to make just one good S-Rank run through a level, and have some random glitch or fucked-up physics screw you over right at the end, that's where it really sucks.
You lose so much time of your life playing that game. It steals it from you.
IT IS A TIME EATER.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
I guess it just depends on what they consider glitches, and how many of them they actually happened across? I mean, the only things I came across in my time with the game (in which I beat all the story stuff) that I'd personally consider glitchy and not just it being a bad game would be the fucked up boosters/springs and Knuckles/Rouge sticking to the walls. I'm not saying there's not other stuff, but that's all I came across.
Every other problem I had with it was just the game being poorly put together, not it glitching out.
Nocturnowl
Member
at the Olympic Games for maximum effect
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
The story just is what it is: to the point and never way too pompously-portrayed, like your average Mario game in terms of how well it stays out of the way. Even then, though, the story is rather complex for a platformer to portray, and this is all shown through a steady, fitting progression through different envinronments, different betrayals, and some climactic moments at the end of the whole affair. Great integration and effective development of ideasthat's what S3&K stands for in Sonic games.
I'm really starting to think that the story aspect really caught on to Takashi Iizuka, who worked on the gameof course, though, he never really understood why it worked, if such was the case. Many middling cutscenes and bad plots later, I don't think he'll ever understand why the story just plain worked, and he tries too hard to set up a plot-infested crapshoot every time. Sonic Adventure was the only really clever thing he ever did with Sonic story-lines, I think, and that was because of the whole Rashomon-like distorted perspective format that was used.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I think it's probably possible to play Sonic 2006 without encountering a game-ending glitch. The thing is, a lot of fans of that particular game are probably children who aren't even aware what even constitutes as a "glitch". They most likely encountered something broken and either thought that:
A) It was their fault and they shouldn't do that.
or
B) It wasn't actually a glitch, it was just something funny the game did.
I bring this up a lot, but when I was a little kid, I actually thought Awesome Possum was a pretty great game - a friend of mine rented it one weekend and we spent what felt like hours playing it. The poor framerate, shitty collision detection, annoying voice samples, or horrific controls never even registered as a blip on our radar, because we were just kids.
Sonic 2006 is a modern-day Awesome Possum.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Awesome Possum sounds like a fake video game name from an early 90's Simpsons episode.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Enjoy. You don't remember other amazing 'mascot with a 'tude' games like Aero the Acro-Bat or Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel?
Box of Bunnies
Banned
It's not fair to compare Sonic 06 with early-mid 90s mascot wannabes like Bubsy because at least they tended to be technically competent even if their game design was completely misguided.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
But even Bubsy was a cut above Awesome Possum.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Oh yeah, I'd definitely heard of Awesome and Aero before, just making an observation
Dragoon En Regalia said:
Well, the same thing happened with Metroid- Super Metroid is a masterpiece in environmental storytelling, especially in the opening segments (the most recent episode of Idle Thumbs has a brilliant discussion on this), never overtly telling the player anything beyond the opening monologue. But once Sakamoto- just like Iizuka- had access to more powerful tools such as VA, cutscenes, 3D graphics etc etc, they decided that they were required to keep telling a story. It's kind of embarrassing, because they both failed miserably, and it makes you feel like they created some of the best narrative for Nintendo and platformers respectively by accident.
Limitations sometimes work wonders, it would seem. I'll be amazed if Sonic Team ever manage to introduce a new character to the series as well as they managed to introduce Knuckles again.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Sure, but based on the video posted Awesome Possum at least looks to be doing everything it's supposed to on a technical level. That doesn't make it a good game, of course, but it still puts it a rung above Sonic 06.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I love how at the beginning of Sonic Adventure, the game starts trivialising the importance of the Emeralds forever more almost instantly. Very funny. "OH HAI SAWNIC I FOUND AN CHAOS EMEROOLD"
Shadow Hog
Member
I do admit, I liked it when the emeralds were almost entirely disassociated from the plot, and the collection of them thereof was an entirely extracurricular (for lack of a better word) exercise.
Haven't experienced any glitches. Just horrible, horrible, horrible design decisions.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Only to be fed to a bunch of Chao
s
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Guys, while I was out walking the dog I had the most amazing idea for a Sonic level ever; Silent Hill Zone. It's basically a shit gets rusty version of Green Hill Zone, with nurse and zombie dog badniks, and at the end you fight Robotnik in a huge Pyramid Head robot, and when you finish him off, the air raid siren sounds, Sonic wakes up and realizes that Tails never existed at all, he was just a product of Sonic's imagination.
I can't even blame not having taken my medication
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