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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas

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My own copy of Multimedia Fusion 2, which isn't here yet, but should be arriving tomorrow. (this is a program sort of like GameMaker)
Is it kinda sad that we have to explain what MMF2 is? I mean, I suppose not everyone here knows, but I certainly know: it's The Games Factory, but much much much better.

Although I recall being super mega ultra hype for it around when it came out, by this point I'd been dabbling in actual programming for college, and suddenly the thing felt a lot more limiting than it had previously. Still, it handles collision detection for you, can't complain too much there. Never did end up buying it. Wonder if it'll support the Wii U down the road; seems Nintendo's trying to be really friendly to indie developers as it is...
 

Quackula

Member
I remember The Games Factory always kinda bugging out for no reason.

MMF2 was great. I don't really have much reason to use it these days though.

No no no, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about to develop games for! I wouldn't actually skip systems for lack of good D-Pads. (Although I definitely skipped the 360 for different reasons, not that it's a bad console or anything)

I've been trying to convince you to learn assembly and just make Genesis games but nooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
I had to deal with IA32 ASM in college. I barely remember any of it, and I was god-awful at it to begin with. It's put me off of trying 68K ASM, honestly, even though, all things considered, IA32 is designed for much more complex processors.
 
Is it kinda sad that we have to explain what MMF2 is? I mean, I suppose not everyone here knows, but I certainly know: it's The Games Factory, but much much much better.

Although I recall being super mega ultra hype for it around when it came out, by this point I'd been dabbling in actual programming for college, and suddenly the thing felt a lot more limiting than it had previously. Still, it handles collision detection for you, can't complain too much there. Never did end up buying it. Wonder if it'll support the Wii U down the road; seems Nintendo's trying to be really friendly to indie developers as it is...

Actual programming is scary, though! I could probably figure out collision and stuff on my own, but I dunno. My last foray in to the realm of trying to code something in C was trying to create a chat bot of sorts

Because like, okay, one of my first "actually write code out" kinds of things was basically creating a chat bot for mIRC that was basically MegaHAL but years before I even knew what MegaHAL was. I figured making something in C where you type in text and a program builds a phrase dictionary and responds back to you would probably be pretty easy

My head goes all wobbly about the time I have to start thinking about memory registers or whatever. Just trying to code in line breaks for my text so the program didn't overflow was doing me in something fierce.

It's like learning how to walk with your legs after spending your entire life walking on your hands.
 
SA2 has held up a whole lot better than it has any right to have.

I don't think you really need to worry about memory registers, actually. I'm sure the best programmers are thinking about things like that, but they're the ones that could write a good chunk of the code in assembly (and in some cases, do - it's actually a legal thing to do in C). For us lower-tier programmers, just knowing how pointers work, what malloc()/calloc() do, and remembering to free resources when we're done with them (but not a moment sooner!) is sufficient. Hence, I was able to create this piece of shit.

I kinda wish I better understood how stack traces in C worked, though. Stack traces in Java are invaluable toward fixing big bugs, and it gives you line numbers for each call. C gives you a bunch of pointers and expects you to figure it all out. Never quite worked it out, myself.
 

Quackula

Member
Registers are the biggest pain ever. Especially if you've got loops inside loops inside loops and you're juggling registers around just to keep up with everything.

What? Why do people hate GameMaker? It's pretty fantastic. All the games I've worked on with Vlambeer are made with GameMaker, even our shooter GunGodz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugi18zeQoYc

The gist of it is that qqmore and co grew up with using clickteam stuff and Game Maker is completely different.
 

qq more

Member
Game Maker was unstable the last time I used it. Then again I honestly haven't used GM in years and I don't know if it actually improved. Maybe I'm just very bitter that MMF2 is niche thanks to GM now.


Oh, one thing I still hate about GM that's possibly still present: Load times. Why are games loading? why (And I remember the times when the load screens were unstable as hell years ago, lol. Thankfully they don't randomly crash anymore.)
 
The gist of it is that qqmore and co grew up with using clickteam stuff and Game Maker is completely different.

Also, in my experience, sometimes GameMaker games just break on some system configurations and nobody I've known has ever really figured out the cause. Some GM games launch with scripting errors for no discernible reason, or they take up ridiculous amounts of RAM (we're talking gigs and gigs for a 2D sprite-based Sonic fangame), and so on.

Seeing as I handle reviewing a bunch of Sonic fangames for TSSZnews.com during SAGE, every year I run in to at least 2-3 games that don't work for me (or at least, don't work right) but work fine for others.

It's been brought up on the Yoyo Games forums and if I recall the response from the GM dev team has been a collective shrugging of shoulders.
 

qq more

Member
Also, in my experience, sometimes GameMaker games just break on some system configurations and nobody I've known has ever really figured out the cause. Some GM games launch with scripting errors for no discernible reason, or they take up ridiculous amounts of RAM (we're talking gigs and gigs for a 2D sprite-based Sonic fangame), and so on.

Seeing as I handle reviewing a bunch of Sonic fangames for TSSZnews.com during SAGE, every year I run in to at least 2-3 games that don't work for me (or at least, don't work right) but work fine for others.

It's been brought up on the Yoyo Games forums and if I recall the response from the GM dev team has been a collective shrugging of shoulders.

What the shit? I'm gonna see that for myself now. That is CRAZY.


EDIT: Quickly loaded up a random SAGE2012 fan game done in Game Maker. It's already at 235K memory usage.
 

qq more

Member
It doesn't always happen and the problems seemed to be reduced when I re-installed Windows, however.

Try Sonic Light & Shadow. That gave me trouble this most recent SAGE.

Is it me or is the UI really terrible in terms of controls? It's... really inconsistent. I can't figure out how to toggle anything.

EDIT: The Graphics Settings is so bugged.

EDIT2: This guy sure loves his Final Fantasy sound effects (and they're really damn loud too)

EDIT3: Uh, any idea what space bar does in the world map? I'm spamming it and it makes a loud sound but nothing happens.

EDIT4: I have to press A to talk to a person. Why can't I just use the action button like most games?

EDIT5: Finally got to a level-MY EARS

oh and yeah it capped at 700k when the game was loading, but the game went down to a surprisingly low memory usage (talking like 10-30k range I think) after that.

EDIT: In the levels it goes to 200k
 
tumblr_mfpusbpLy41rr2g16o1_500.jpg


Thaaar she blows
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Watching people talk about designing games is so interesting.

I can't do it myself, but I like hearing what people plan to do in terms of game design and how much space and stuff the game takes up, and what software they use to do it. Even if I don't understand all of it. It's just really neat to learn new stuff because everyone has a different idea of what they think players will like or what's important to various players.

Kokonoe said:
I appreciate the thought, however! that's what counts.
Still, I feel bad. I just want everyone to be happy.

Sega1991 said:
Half-Minute Hero
playthisplaythisplaythisplaythisplaythisplaythisplaythisssssss
 

qq more

Member
In speaking of PSN, I tried a demo of the new Rocket Knight game. All I can say is "meh". I can't believe they made the SHMUP section so damn slow and borin'
 
In speaking of PSN, I tried a demo of the new Rocket Knight game. All I can say is "meh". I can't believe they made the SHMUP section so damn slow and borin'

Even worse is there's always a Shmup section in every level

I really wanted to like that game but it's hard in all of the wrong ways, has kind of lame art direction, and just isn't very fun to play.

Apparently it's super short, too. Like four stages tops (though, granted, each stage is like 10-20 minutes).
 

qq more

Member
Even worse is there's always a Shmup section in every level

I really wanted to like that game but it's hard in all of the wrong ways, has kind of lame art direction, and just isn't very fun to play.

Apparently it's super short, too. Like four stages tops (though, granted, each stage is like 10-20 minutes).

4 stages wtf?

All of the 16bit Rocket Knight games had more than that. What is this? Sonic 4? It's not even Episodic for crying out loud! KONAMMIIIII!!!
 
You haven't lived 'til you've played RKA on the toughest difficulties. The Gradius esque stage in particular is a blast.

Which one? Genesis sequel or the SNES spinoff? I used to think the SNES one was a sequel for some reason, might as well been one.

I've always been more fond of the SNES spinoff, personally. (Mostly because it kept RKA1's mechanics intact)
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
In speaking of PSN, I tried a demo of the new Rocket Knight game. All I can say is "meh". I can't believe they made the SHMUP section so damn slow and borin'
Yeah, seriously. Don't even bother with it. It isn't very fun.

Uuuuugh, I just figured out that I don't have a GotY. Like... nothing I played this year is worthy of #1 (shit, not even the top 3 in some cases). And half of the stuff I've played have flaws where I wouldn't even consider putting them into the top 10 (Xillia 2, Gravity Rush, AC3:L, FF13-2, I am not putting AC3 anywhere near the honourable mentions at this point, Neptunia mk2, lol Sonic 4: Ep 2, etc.). Sucks. Last year's list was so much easier to come up with! I don't wanna put P4:Golden on because it's an enhanced port, but I might add it if I have to get 10 games in there. I played Ys: Origin and ToGf in the past so I can't vote for those either. Edit: If I don't think of something, one of VLR, Dikembe Mutombo, Katawa Shoujo, Growlanser IV, or DJMAX are getting boosted.

I haven't played Journey yet. I get the feeling I won't like it as much as GAF likes it. Same goes for Walking Dead.
 
Tigerkiddo's avatar looks like human Scootaloo on this phone.

Uuuuugh, I just figured out that I don't have a GotY. Like... nothing I played this year is worthy of #1 (shit, not even the top 3 in some cases). And half of the stuff I've played have flaws where I wouldn't even consider putting them into the top 10 (Xillia 2, Gravity Rush, AC3:L, FF13-2, I am not putting AC3 anywhere near the honourable mentions at this point, Neptunia mk2, lol Sonic 4: Ep 2, etc.). Sucks. Last year's list was so much easier to come up with! I don't wanna put P4:Golden on because it's an enhanced port, but I might add it if I have to get 10 games in there. I played Ys: Origin and ToGf in the past so I can't vote for those either. Edit: If I don't think of something, one of VLR, Dikembe Mutombo, Katawa Shoujo, Growlanser IV, or DJMAX are getting boosted.

I haven't played Journey yet. I get the feeling I won't like it as much as GAF likes it. Same goes for Walking Dead.
Well, there's always B.D. Joe and All-Stars Racing. Wouldn't consider it other years, but this year really kinda sucked.

Maybe Fez? Dust? Journey? Borderlands 2? I dunno...
 

qq more

Member
Kid Icarus or Sega All Stars Racing are my GOTY

it's weird that I'm actually considering a Sonic game as GOTY material. I mean I never even thought of considering Sonic Gen as GOTY last year (because while it's fantastic there were sooo much better games)
 
I have one definitive GotY and then a cluster of choices for the remaining 9 slots that i'm not sure how to order, so somehow 2nd place is what presents my dilemma this year.
Though NSMBU's challenge mode is making one hell of push for that spot, i'd say Sonic needs this mode but then I remembered Generations many challenges, so to rephrase that Sonic needs challenges more like this and less like what we got, basically more action master, less Vector's musical note madness.

This year in general has been an odd one, feels like a year of good not great, I don't much care for the current GotY media frontrunners either (then again I never do), granted I haven't played the TWD, I just hate bland arse zombies too much to try it for full price.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Yeah, seriously. Don't even bother with it. It isn't very fun.

Not only is a bad, ugly and boring game, it somehow managed to delete all my trophies after I backed up my old PS3 drive and transferred the content to my new drive :mad: And there's no way in Hell I'm willing to slog through that game again.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I love Kid Icarus's presentation and difficulty scaling (because that shit is the bomb and all games should use it), and at the beginning I didn't feel like the control was that detrimental to a left-hander but later on in the game it did start to get on my nerves.

...Alright, I'll say this here since no one really reads this corner of GAF, but I don't like the soundtrack as much as everyone else does. My bf and I listened to the JP Club Nintendo soundtrack together because he looooves Sakuraba, and while I fucking love my Koshiro... it's not his best work. It isn't Sakuraba's best work. It isn't Mitsuda's best work but he's been downhill since Xenogears and Chrono Cross anyway (with only some standout tracks in Arc Rise Fantasia). Eh. I dunno what it is about that soundtrack that I don't like.

Tigerkiddo's avatar looks like human Scootaloo on this phone.

Well, there's always B.D. Joe and All-Stars Racing. Wouldn't consider it other years, but this year really kinda sucked.

Maybe Fez? Dust? Journey? Borderlands 2? I dunno...
Oh yeah, I should get started on that too.

It feels a little limiting since I don't have a 360.

Not only is a bad, ugly and boring game, it somehow managed to delete all my trophies after I backed up my old PS3 drive and transferred the content to my new drive :mad: And there's no way in Hell I'm willing to slog through that game again.
how is that even possible

i don't even

kusoge

This year in general has been an odd one, feels like a year of good not great, I don't much care for the current GotY media frontrunners either (then again I never do), granted I haven't played the TWD, I just hate bland arse zombies too much to try it for full price.
I heard that it's not much of a game? I said to myself that I'd give AC3 a rest today and go for either Journey or TWD, but I dunno.

Oh, speaking of a Bah Bah game. NSMB2 controls well--way better than NSMB1, but I don't get its premise. So... it's coins? Collect all the coins? What happens when I do collect all the coins? I don't get the overall objective here. Can't I just have fun with powerups?
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
how is that even possible

i don't even

kusoge

I just checked, and on my phone it seems I can see my trophy percentage (a paltry 4% since I never bothered to do anything more than just finish the game on easy), but I'm sure my PS3 had it at 0% the last time I checked ._.

Either way, it's a bad and boring game.

And God damn is it ugly.
 
This is gonna sound crazy but I think Tales of Graces F is my GOTY. Note that this is all coming from a guy who wasn't that big a Tales fan untill recently. I don't know how Namco does it but that amazing battle system made me play through that game three times over. I really enjoyed how the New Game+ feature let me power myself up depending on how things went the first time around, it made things much less tedious and let me move through the game and its extras a lot quicker while still not making you an all powerful beast right from the start if you don't want to.

It was that addictive. And more shit just kept coming! There were these other attacks I've never seen, all these titles, sure there were lots of things wrong with it like almost everything after the climax and especially the main arc ending (oh man >_<) but the first half of the story all the way up to the climax kept me on the edge of my seat. Yeah there were lots of better games released this year, but none of them brought me back into the game like Graces F did. I might make a thread about how the story could have been improved because when I think about it, the setup they had put out a lot of good potential.

Nontheless, I hope the writers learned from their mistakes and made much better story and script decisions with Xillia.
 
I love Kid Icarus's presentation and difficulty scaling (because that shit is the bomb and all games should use it), and at the beginning I didn't feel like the control was that detrimental to a left-hander but later on in the game it did start to get on my nerves.

...Alright, I'll say this here since no one really reads this corner of GAF, but I don't like the soundtrack as much as everyone else does. My bf and I listened to the JP Club Nintendo soundtrack together because he looooves Sakuraba, and while I fucking love my Koshiro... it's not his best work. It isn't Sakuraba's best work. It isn't Mitsuda's best work but he's been downhill since Xenogears and Chrono Cross anyway (with only some standout tracks in Arc Rise Fantasia). Eh. I dunno what it is about that soundtrack that I don't like.
Maybe this is like the feeling I have for the Nier Soundtrack, I know it's good, there are a few tracks I enjoy but I ultimately don't care much for it, at least not to the level of its praise then again i'm in hotter water here since it tends to be considered the best soundtrack of this generation.
...You did say we were safe in this corner of GAF right? yeah, of course we are after all no one has come down on the heathens here who don't like the soundtrack to- aww you already know what i'm going to say here.

Back to KI:U and its soundtrack, I guess it's my favourite this year, I mean I do like it a lot but ultimately I don't really feel it as a "number 1", no soundtrack this year has really blown my socks off as it stands, a bit like the games themselves then in that respect.

I heard that it's not much of a game? I said to myself that I'd give AC3 a rest today and go for either Journey or TWD, but I dunno.
Not being much of a game is the new being a game!
No but really i've enjoyed a fair amount of games that are lacking in outright traditional gameplay, quite a few from this year in fact so really these games thrive based on the emotional reaction you elicit from them, so often it's either the best thing since sliced bread or you stand by bewildered while everyone cries tears of unparalleled joy about the emotional rollercoaster they experienced that meant nothing much to you at all.

You can beat Journey pretty swiftly so you might as well get it out the way, on one hand you may fall into the undying love crowd in which case it was more than worth trying it, alternatively you end up like me thinking that it at least looked nice and was pretty enjoyable for its duration but nothing more.....where's MY emotional breakthrough and life changing experience?!
Unfortunately the soundtrack doesn't do much for me either, actually that's a good point to add, worth you checking it out for its SotY potential, it's one of the frontrunners in that department as well I believe.

Oh, speaking of a Bah Bah game. NSMB2 controls well--way better than NSMB1, but I don't get its premise. So... it's coins? Collect all the coins? What happens when I do collect all the coins? I don't get the overall objective here. Can't I just have fun with powerups?
You collect the coins to feel good about yourself I guess? there's an awful title screen based reward for hitting the million mark that i'll likely never bother reaching but I found the whole coin angle kind of enjoyable even if it ultimately serves no real purpose outside of coin rush which would be a fantastic high score mode if it weren't for some brutal flaws in its setup (coin cap, randomized levels and of course no leaderboards or anything but the streetpass functionality but Nintendo gonna Nintendo).

But ultimately there's something oddly satisfying as you explode a group of enemies into coin bonuses with the golden flower whilst sprinting along with a coin block head as nearby pipes start vomiting coins all over the shop.
Shame that the difficulty kind of caps at the Ice World and never steps up much further and that includes the star world/world 9 stages.
 
I love Kid Icarus's presentation and difficulty scaling (because that shit is the bomb and all games should use it), and at the beginning I didn't feel like the control was that detrimental to a left-hander but later on in the game it did start to get on my nerves.

...Alright, I'll say this here since no one really reads this corner of GAF, but I don't like the soundtrack as much as everyone else does. My bf and I listened to the JP Club Nintendo soundtrack together because he looooves Sakuraba, and while I fucking love my Koshiro... it's not his best work. It isn't Sakuraba's best work. It isn't Mitsuda's best work but he's been downhill since Xenogears and Chrono Cross anyway (with only some standout tracks in Arc Rise Fantasia). Eh. I dunno what it is about that soundtrack that I don't like.

Everything by Koshiro is godlike, the rest is servicable. You're not insane.
 

qq more

Member
Sucks that there's no real reward for collecting so many coins but I would be lying if I said I wasn't having a blast with the gimmick. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Oh and yeah, as much as I like Kid Icarus... the OST was good but it just never stood out too much for me. IDK Maybe it's just not my cup of tea.
 

OMG Aero

Member
I can't even remember what games I've played this year since before about September. All I know is that I'm playing Asura's Wrath at the moment and it's the most fun I've had with a game in a long time.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
This is gonna sound crazy but I think Tales of Graces F is my GOTY.
Hell no, I don't think you're crazy. I put it on my GotY list for 2010 (I wasn't a member of GAF at that time, but it was a personal list I shared with other people). It just got beat out by 999. I just have this blurry as hell cell phone photo of my top 20 that I guess I could share. :|

Nontheless, I hope the writers learned from their mistakes and made much better story and script decisions with Xillia.
It's better paced, but ultimately, you're better off with Xillia 2's story. I have no doubts that people in the west will prefer Xillia's story by a country mile. It's more of what they're accustomed to, anyway. I'm just a little surprised by how many people play Tales for the story since the stories in Tales games always have some sort of shortcoming.

qq more said:
And God damn is it ugly.
It's exactly like the same thing Konami did to the Suikoden PSP game because it's also atrociously ugly, a far cry from the original games when they were filled with colour.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
I don't have a GOTY myself, Sonic Racing actually disappointed me quite a bit although I do like it, it's just not GOTY material for me.
 
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