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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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I like it. It's neat that the first cutscene BGM in SA2 uses it as its base.
What do you think about the original version from SA1?
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I hate it. :X
Nocturnowl
Member
I picked up Colors DS a few months back on the cheap, i've only played Rush and Rush Adventures stages through multiplayer races so I can't really compare all three games directly but I certainly thought Colors DS was solid enough, though that cutscene music really began to do my head in, the worst track in the soundtrack every time one of Sonic's friends turned up! ARRRGH!
I'll probably have to replay the stages as I don't remember too much, aside from the void wisp controlling like ass.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Hey whoa now we're getting in to crazy talk
I found Sonic Colors on the DS to be super bland and kind of uninspired in that "We're being forced to tie in to a larger license so we crapped out whatever we had" sort of way. It's not terrible, but when I think of going back and playing a Sonic game on the DS, Sonic Colors is usually the last one I am interested in playing.
Level design can get prohibitively complex (Sweet Mountain) and is full of a lot of the typical anti-exploration tactics you got in the Sonic Advance games, where you miss an alternate route and the game basically says "Well now you're fucked because there's no other way to get up there and we've designed these levels so that backtracking is generally impossible".
Whereas I obsessively played Rush and Rush Adventure to get good time trial records and S-Rank everything, I really don't give a crap about getting all of the red star rings in Colors DS because of stuff like that.
"Oops I messed up a single jump, might as well start the entire level over again"
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Ehhh.. the original's WAY better in my opinion. Then again, I wasn't really a fan of the "american rock" style they took for SA2's OST.
This is true. D:
This is... probably not untrue, but the tradeoff is that the alternate routes (and by extension the levels as a whole) are more memorable, since their structures and the means you use to traverse them are considerably more varied than the designers could accomplish in the Rush games. The complexity reminds me a little of Sonic 3 and gives me the same sort of "I wonder what happens if I go there?" feelings, since the inclusion of wisp powers gives a tangible gameplay benefit to seeking out alternate routes beyond pure speedrunning.
As far as baseline mechanical changes go, the combination of stomp/wall jump/actually useful homing attack is a very welcome replacement for trick spam.
It also has a really clever special stage concept, even if they didn't capitalize on it as well as they could have.
Of cour-oh, that. Meh. The real fakers in SA2 are the three character themes trying to pass themselves off as songs that were actually good in the last game.
Shadow Hog
Member
"It Doesn't Matter" in SA2 was okay, but SA1's was so much better. I'm not entirely sure which era of rock the earlier track is going for - '80s, I guess - but it hits the right chords with me more often than SA2's does. At least SA2's is inoffensive enough.
"Believe In Myself" in SA2 was gutter trash, though. The tune they tried to shoehorn the last game's lyrics into simply didn't work, as evidenced by the chorus having to have friggin' pauses in the middle of lines just to make it fit. They're just throwing the lines around without any regard to how they work together as a song, and the whole piece falls completely apart as a result. The first game's song was a bit saccharine (enjoyable saccharine, but saccharine), but it's gold compared to that garbage.
"Unknown to M.E." doesn't chuckle. It'd rather flex its muscles. (No-one stops Knuckles' feet! ...yeah, both versions are cheesy as hell, but they're both fun IMO.)
"Believe In Myself" in SA2 was gutter trash, though. The tune they tried to shoehorn the last game's lyrics into simply didn't work, as evidenced by the chorus having to have friggin' pauses in the middle of lines just to make it fit. They're just throwing the lines around without any regard to how they work together as a song, and the whole piece falls completely apart as a result. The first game's song was a bit saccharine (enjoyable saccharine, but saccharine), but it's gold compared to that garbage.
"Unknown to M.E." doesn't chuckle. It'd rather flex its muscles. (No-one stops Knuckles' feet! ...yeah, both versions are cheesy as hell, but they're both fun IMO.)
Aaron Strife
Banned
Come on, everyone knows what the best character theme is.
TheCongressman1
Member
It doesn't matter from SA2 is more fitting of Sonic's personality, imo.
I like both of them though. I won't really say one is better than the other because they are pretty different.
I like both of them though. I won't really say one is better than the other because they are pretty different.
Shadow Hog
Member
This didn't change between games, so I didn't address it.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I cannot tolerate this dislike of Sonic Adventure 2's soundtrack because it makes my guitar cry. 
But I'll agree that Believe in Myself in SA2 was blech compared to the SA1 version. But even then, that song isn't very good! I never liked it much.
I also like both versions of It Doesn't Matter equally, and I like 'em for different reasons (and they are pretty different, so I can't say which one's better than the other).
But I'll agree that Believe in Myself in SA2 was blech compared to the SA1 version. But even then, that song isn't very good! I never liked it much.
I also like both versions of It Doesn't Matter equally, and I like 'em for different reasons (and they are pretty different, so I can't say which one's better than the other).
qq more said:
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
SA1 character theme analysis go.
It Doesn't Matter is definitely better in the original. 90s heavy pop-rock with the right balance of 80s-style vocals and contemporary arrangement. Oh, and that chord progression is definitely much better, as is the vocalist and overall clean stylings. The SA2 version just made it into this forgettable punk romp completely dominated by monotonous arrangement and lack of effective contrasts. And the singer isn't as amazing (though he's good), and the style doesn't complement the cool attitude that SA1 really set up for Sonic, and bleh. Part of it was simply Jun Senoue reverting to his Metal Head days, trying to strive for a comparatively-generic electronic/rock hybrid for the whole soundtrack. SA1 stands up for variety purposes.
I have less to say about Believe in Myself, but I do prefer the original version, which takes a similar approach to It Doesn't Matter, though more feminine overall. The sound team decided to go with a heavier, girl-power arrangement for SA2, but it just feels overdone and the singer is dull.
Unknown From M.E. is awesome simply because both versions contrast the rap vocalizing with jazz vocals from Marlon Saunders and company (and Marlon's a fantastic vocalist, for that matter). SA1 version is best version due to the effortless interplay between rap, horn section, and vocal section, but SA2 has some really amazing arrangement and a better groove (equal solos, too). But I just can't stand Hunnid-P. Dread Fox is pretty gic, though. Yet neither version is the best.
My Sweet Passionyeah, it creeps me the fuck out. But a very well-done theme, for what it's worth and for the kind of character it has to portray. I still think that Gamma's theme simultaneously does a better job and becomes the most memorable theme in the entire game. To do that in the midst of such a superlative musical score is a real challenge, but Fumie Kumatani delivered. Holy shit do I love it.
And Lazy Days is fucking hilarious. I love it as well.
It Doesn't Matter is definitely better in the original. 90s heavy pop-rock with the right balance of 80s-style vocals and contemporary arrangement. Oh, and that chord progression is definitely much better, as is the vocalist and overall clean stylings. The SA2 version just made it into this forgettable punk romp completely dominated by monotonous arrangement and lack of effective contrasts. And the singer isn't as amazing (though he's good), and the style doesn't complement the cool attitude that SA1 really set up for Sonic, and bleh. Part of it was simply Jun Senoue reverting to his Metal Head days, trying to strive for a comparatively-generic electronic/rock hybrid for the whole soundtrack. SA1 stands up for variety purposes.
I have less to say about Believe in Myself, but I do prefer the original version, which takes a similar approach to It Doesn't Matter, though more feminine overall. The sound team decided to go with a heavier, girl-power arrangement for SA2, but it just feels overdone and the singer is dull.
Unknown From M.E. is awesome simply because both versions contrast the rap vocalizing with jazz vocals from Marlon Saunders and company (and Marlon's a fantastic vocalist, for that matter). SA1 version is best version due to the effortless interplay between rap, horn section, and vocal section, but SA2 has some really amazing arrangement and a better groove (equal solos, too). But I just can't stand Hunnid-P. Dread Fox is pretty gic, though. Yet neither version is the best.
My Sweet Passionyeah, it creeps me the fuck out. But a very well-done theme, for what it's worth and for the kind of character it has to portray. I still think that Gamma's theme simultaneously does a better job and becomes the most memorable theme in the entire game. To do that in the midst of such a superlative musical score is a real challenge, but Fumie Kumatani delivered. Holy shit do I love it.
And Lazy Days is fucking hilarious. I love it as well.
Nocturnowl
Member
Lazy Days is the guilty pleasure of Sonic Adventure, also count me in the original "It doesn't matter" camp, I barely remember the SA2 version.
Now clearly we should all dissect the character themes of Sonic Heroes, I remember a worryingly high amount of lyrics for all teams except for Team Dark, it's like a curse.
Now clearly we should all dissect the character themes of Sonic Heroes, I remember a worryingly high amount of lyrics for all teams except for Team Dark, it's like a curse.
sa1 it doesn't matter > sa2 it doesn't matter
these are facts.
oh, how do you guys feel about virtual sonic? i've been giving it random listens lately, though i still haven't listened to every song yet.
these are facts.
oh, how do you guys feel about virtual sonic? i've been giving it random listens lately, though i still haven't listened to every song yet.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Virtual Sonic was one of the first music CDs I ever owned.
A lot of cheesy songs, some kind of bland ones, but there's a few that are still cool. The opening track, Chaos Jam, is pretty nice, as is the extended S&K Theme music. The remastered Spinball music is great, and I kind of wish they would've used "Return to the Toxic Caves" in Generations as opposed to that weird faux-synth thing.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
LOst should work for capcom.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
You are a good person.
I'll chip in with 101 Beta's theme which also sits as one of the most memorable themes in the franchise for me. Sigh, what a brilliant soundtrack.
TheCongressman1
Member
No one wins in a musical debate, especially between two songs that are almost nothing alike. Opinions are a bitch.
I prefer the driving punk sound of SA2's, but some people aren't into that. That's fine.
I prefer the driving punk sound of SA2's, but some people aren't into that. That's fine.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
checkeredknight
Member
IIRC, "Lazy Days" was Yuji Naka's favorite character theme from Sonic Adventure too. You can hear it playing as he casually exits his Ferrari in this "making of" video from the game here.
i want some spaghettios
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
That docu-program looks interesting. I just saw a young Takashi Iizuka, for example.
The best part is how Gamma's theme is composed to segue smoothly into Beta's theme, so they serve as two halves of one whole. The only other time I'm aware of the sound staff doing that is the excellent six-track, fifteen minute suite in Billy Hatcher's OST wrapped around Odd March/Child's Song.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Destined to *ahem* fit together.
avatarquote
avatarquote
Box of Bunnies
Banned
PeakPointMatrix
Member
^LOOL
Come guys on, Iizuka's not that bad.
Come guys on, Iizuka's not that bad.
TheCongressman1
Member
I believe this picture sums up the last 10 or so years of Sonic quite nicely.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
^ Oh wow. :lol
Eh, doesn't matter. Both soundtracks are good. I just prefer SA2's as a whole a little more. Plus I usually used a few songs off that album to practice for guitar lessons, so my general appreciation for that soundtrack might be nostalgia-based for me.
I kinda thought it was because pop-punk and extreme sports culture was huge at the time, so the music ended up fitting really well to me. At least it was like that around where I lived, and everyone listened to it, so it was only natural to fit pop-punk, light punk rock, rock and hip-hop/rap in that game's soundtrack. Of course, pop-punk is generally dominated by three chords so you're going to feel that the arrangement is boring.
Eh, doesn't matter. Both soundtracks are good. I just prefer SA2's as a whole a little more. Plus I usually used a few songs off that album to practice for guitar lessons, so my general appreciation for that soundtrack might be nostalgia-based for me.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Sonic Adventure 1's "Doesn't Matter" is my favorite song to use on Race the Doppleganger stages in Sonic Generations.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
That's quite likely, and I tend to agree. But then we start to talk about how the content affects the overall design and quality of the soundtrack, and then I'd begin to bitch about how they sacrificed overall variety for a specific context that's quite timely. And, at that point, I'd have to essentially cast away game soundtracks like Sonic 3 & Knuckles into an abyss for doing the same thing, e.x. getting MJ and his music producers to work on the soundtrack for that game.
So, ultimately, opinions will be opinions. But I do think that SA1's musical approach was more suited to the kind of game that Iizuka wanted to make, and the same goes for SA2. It all comes down to how well executed the musical structures and development play out.
That screen-cap is perfect. I need young Iizuka as an avatar now. Masuda's not going to be suitable forever.
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Speaking of music news, Right Said Fred is working with Cash-Cash and Crush 40 to remix "Wonderman". All for the next big Sonic game we'll probably see at E3. Also, probably April fools. XD
Let's Play 20 Years of Sonic Pt.104 - Sonic Rush Adventure (2/2)
Their reaction when they find out they have to replay levels to grind for materials is the exact same I had when I played this game.
...you know what? Sonic games are fucking shit, let's watch an LP about a better series instead.
Let's Play 20 Years of Pinatas Pt.1355 - Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise (178/?)
Their reaction when they find out they have to replay levels to grind for materials is the exact same I had when I played this game.
...you know what? Sonic games are fucking shit, let's watch an LP about a better series instead.
Let's Play 20 Years of Pinatas Pt.1355 - Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise (178/?)
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Grinding materials ain't no thang if you know how to actually play the game. If you're consistently getting B ranks or better right out of the gate, you should have enough materials for most stuff that Tails wants to build until Blaze the Cat shows up, and then it feels like it's structured so that they want you to play a level once as Sonic and once as Blaze.
And as I said previously, levels feel more like they were designed with Blaze's abilities in mind, so it ends up being a little bit like finding new routes as Tails or Knuckles in S3&K.
I suppose that makes it a little punishing for those who aren't good enough to get high ranks their first time through a lot of this stuff, but it wasn't much a problem for me.
And as I said previously, levels feel more like they were designed with Blaze's abilities in mind, so it ends up being a little bit like finding new routes as Tails or Knuckles in S3&K.
I suppose that makes it a little punishing for those who aren't good enough to get high ranks their first time through a lot of this stuff, but it wasn't much a problem for me.
Shadow Hog
Member
Most assuredly an AFD joke, but is it wrong that I want to believe?
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
My avatar is Takashi, shit of shits. Look upon my works and despair!
Shadow Hog
Member
Incidentally, try Sonic 1's level select code on Sonic Retro's fora. (Up, Down, Left, Right, A+Enter if you forgot. Somehow.)
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/angry-video-screwattack/728630
James Rolfe (not in AVGN character) recounts his memories of some of the old Sonic games. The main reason I posted this though is the Green Hill footage near the beginning. The font on the zone title (and act clear) is the Sonic 2 font. Does anyone know what version this is, or if this is a hack?
James Rolfe (not in AVGN character) recounts his memories of some of the old Sonic games. The main reason I posted this though is the Green Hill footage near the beginning. The font on the zone title (and act clear) is the Sonic 2 font. Does anyone know what version this is, or if this is a hack?
This made me laugh harder than it had any right to. :lol
TheCongressman1
Member
I just saw a really interesting level break in Sonic Generations. In city escape on the first challenge level, you can bypass the goal and go into the 2D sections in full 3D. This is interesting because it would be easily playable this way if there were only camera controls.
City Escape Level Break. Should start around 1:15.
City Escape Level Break. Should start around 1:15.
Tizoc
Member
I recently listedn to SA2's vocal songs, and really like EGGMAN-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWiSEyU76M4
Insturmental-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UtJCPQ90as
DAT BASS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWiSEyU76M4
Insturmental-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UtJCPQ90as
DAT BASS!
The Mana Legend
Banned
Sonic Generations 3DS is surprisingly a lot better than I thought it would be. It has a lot of content for a game that only has a few levels.
But so far I haven't had an experience as bad as Planet Wisp, which makes me happy.
But so far I haven't had an experience as bad as Planet Wisp, which makes me happy.
What about Time Eater? Planet Wisp wasn't so badly designed, it was just repetitive and too long after a few mins.
But yeah, didn't like the level either. Which is disappointing considering it came from the good recent Sonic game.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Whoops, meant to put the 3DS part at the end of Sonic Generations!
I just got the 3DS version for $10, and I'm pretty impressed so far.
Oh. It's a pretty alright game for 15 dollars or less, but I wish the game had a bit more content and didn't force homing attack on Classic Sonic.
How far are you exactly? The only REAL bad level is
Radical Highway
The Mana Legend
Banned
Radical Highway is my next level!
But I am 100% content with the content. Tons of missions, enough levels to make me satisfied, and the multiplayer is really fun despite the awful framerate.
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