Support NeoGAF

[TheOGB]

Oh man, Sonic Unleashed is such a refreshing change of pace after 06. It seems like a top-notch product (well, most things are compared to 06, but seriously, you can tell a whole hell of a lot was put into the game. See opening cutscene, soundtrack, and Night of the Werehog) and I am actively loving it.

I also can't believe I'm enjoying searching out medals so far (got all of them in Windmill Isle Night the first go) and the Werehog isn't terrible, though I only just got to Spagonia, and I can see exactly where I'll likely be frustrated later on.

Overall, great first impression. Hope it doesn't get too much worse later on.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I really don't understand double jumps. Couldn't they just make him jump higher?

Then you run the risk of the game feeling floaty. Not that the double jump in Colors is any good, mind you. I would've rather they just had it be the traditional air-dash.

 

[TheCongressman1]

I really don't understand double jumps. Couldn't they just make him jump higher?

Exactly. Or even, you know, just design the levels around his normal jump height... I just don't understand why Sega does these things sometimes.

"We would have kept Sonic's single jump, but that would have broken the level design, and we have to design the levels first because reasons."

 

[Kokonoe]

I've stated my opinion on the double jump in this game earlier in this thread, but yeah, it is rather pointless due to it's design. It makes platforming sections slower as well.

 

[Pietepiet]

I still don't like Colors. It just strays way too far from Sonic gameplay for my taste.

Agreed. The only levels I enjoyed from Colours were the stages that somewhat resembled Unleashed's playstyle (every Act 1 stage, I think?). The rest of the game is slow, boring filler platforming to make the game longer. Yet for some reason, probably because you play as Sonic himself, people seem to be okay with that.

To be fair, I liked the Werehog more than those slow 2D stages :\

[EDIT] Also, even the stages I did enjoy are not stages I want to replay. They miss the flow and excitement of Unleashed and Generations' daytime/modern stages.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Agreed. The only levels I enjoyed from Colours were the stages that somewhat resembled Unleashed's playstyle (every Act 1 stage, I think?). The rest of the game is slow, boring filler platforming to make the game longer. Yet for some reason, probably because you play as Sonic himself, people seem to be okay with that.

To be fair, I liked the Werehog more than those slow 2D stages :\

[EDIT] Also, even the stages I did enjoy are not stages I want to replay. They miss the flow and excitement of Unleashed and Generations' daytime/modern stages.

It's almost as if some platforming fans might have actually enjoyed platforming, what a twist! Now if it were as slow as Sonic 1 Marble Zone then we'd have a problem.
And yes the bolded was one of the things I liked about colours and the double jump is less of a way to increase your jump height and more of a tool to assist you in doing the more precise jumps along with the stomp, not great but still better than that clumsy incomplete air dash from other games, that thing is baffling.
Best modern sonic for sure.

 

[Pietepiet]

It's almost as if some platforming fans might have actually enjoyed platforming, what a twist!

Sure. I mean, I enjoy platforming. The platforming with Classic Sonic, for example, was perfectly fine to me.

But a lot of Colours didn't really feel at home in that game, for me anyway. It felt like exactly the same kind of filler that people complain about with every other modern Sonic release. Stages like the ones where you navigate slowly on the moving yellow springset were so unnecessary.

 

[Kokonoe]

It's almost as if some platforming fans might have actually enjoyed platforming, what a twist! Now if it were as slow as Sonic 1 Marble Zone then we'd have a problem.
And yes the bolded was one of the things I liked about colours and the double jump is less of a way to increase your jump height and more of a tool to assist you in doing the more precise jumps along with the stomp, not great but still better than that clumsy incomplete air dash from other games, that thing is baffling.
Best modern sonic for sure.

Uh, except for all the platforms that require you to double jump to proceed. I also don't see how an air dash that brings you forward in a steady direction is worse than a slight double hop that's only purpose is for platforms that slowdown the game. It's probably the most situational addition to a Sonic game in recent years.

As for the platforming part, Sonic games are about speed and platforming. It's not whether or not someone plays for the "platforming", but Sonic's whole thing is his speed. You take away his speed and it loses a huge chunk of what makes Sonic games great.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Sure. I mean, I enjoy platforming. The platforming with Classic Sonic, for example, was perfectly fine to me.

But a lot of Colours didn't really feel at home in that game, for me anyway. It felt like exactly the same kind of filler that people complain about with every other modern Sonic release. Stages like the ones where you navigate slowly on the moving yellow springset were so unnecessary.

Hey it's fine if it didn't click with you, most of the in between stages for me felt like they were giving Colours something important that Unleashed completely missed, stage gimmicks to make each one unique, as such I welcome the yellow spring, well kind of as that one wasn't so great. I also figure them a nice respite between the 2 acts that got to full blown stage treatment.

Uh, except for all the platforms that require you to double jump to proceed. I also don't see how an air dash that brings you forward in a steady direction is worse than a slight double hop that's only purpose is for platforms that slowdown the game. It's probably the most situational addition to a Sonic game in recent years.

As for the platforming part, Sonic games are about speed and platforming. It's not whether or not someone plays for the "platforming", but Sonic's whole thing is his speed. You take away his speed and it loses a huge chunk of what makes Sonic games great.

we're going to have to agree to disagree here, the air dash to me is one of the worst things i've come across in any platformer, usually causing more platform misses than success.
As for the speed/platfroming thing, I mostly agree but it's a delicate balance, playing colours DS I felt like I was mostly too much run and not enough jump, Colours wii certainly falls on the slower side of things but I prefer being more in control myself.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Poking around the eShop after getting the Mario Kart update, I noticed that not a single person has bothered to submit a review for Sonic Labyrinth. Not that I can blame them (I wouldn't want to play an hour of Sonic Labyrinth either), and it's not quite a week since it went up, but I still thought it kinda interesting as pretty much every other VC release has at least five reviews.

 

[Diablohead]

Then you run the risk of the game feeling floaty. Not that the double jump in Colors is any good, mind you. I would've rather they just had it be the traditional air-dash.

Of all the people to say such a thing

 

[Dark Schala]

One thing that really annoys me is the fact that he has a double jump. There just isn't any reason. It just makes platforming clunky.

I recently started a replay of Colours, and it was almost like the double jump was a foreign concept. I kind of forgot it was there until I realized there were a few platforms when I needed it.

I don't really think it's a bad thing, but I can see why people don't like it.

Oh man, Sonic Unleashed is such a refreshing change of pace after 06. It seems like a top-notch product (well, most things are compared to 06, but seriously, you can tell a whole hell of a lot was put into the game. See opening cutscene, soundtrack, and Night of the Werehog) and I am actively loving it.

I also can't believe I'm enjoying searching out medals so far (got all of them in Windmill Isle Night the first go) and the Werehog isn't terrible, though I only just got to Spagonia, and I can see exactly where I'll likely be frustrated later on.

Overall, great first impression. Hope it doesn't get too much worse later on.

The werehog outstays his welcome when his stages get extraordinarily long, or consist of a bunch of musou-like fights. I think the worst Werehog stage for me before Eggmanland was the Chun-nan Night one. Love the music, but man oh man, there's something about that stage...

Like, Sonic Unleashed feels like a much better effort than Sonic 2006. I think it's a good game. Both the SD and HD versions have different things to offer to the player, and sometimes stages from one is better than the other (ex: Cool Edge Day and Eggmanland in the Wii version are better than the HD version). The only thing is that searching for medals and lengthy Werehog stages can really screw with the pacing in that game. Otherwise, it's fine. Once you level up the Werehog, the stages feel more competent, but it's a shame you have to get to that point in the first place. Day stages, for the most part, are fine.

It looks absolutely fucking excellent, and the soundtrack is amazing. Even if you don't like the game, you can't really say that the presentation is bad. It's one of the best-looking games I've seen this gen due to art direction and colour palette alone.

 

[Kokonoe]

I'm still in the process of beating Unleashed (it asked me to obtain 20something sun coins for the beach level). However, I'd like to talk about another aspect of it that surely crossed everyone's mind when it was first revealed.

How did you feel when they first showed this "Werehog"? For me, I thought it was absolutely ridiculous. The mere thought of it seemed so unorthodox for Sonic, or a decent gaming series in general. I look past it while I play and only judge the game for what it is, but I have to say this has to be one of their silliest ideas yet.

 

[Pietepiet]

How did you feel when they first showed this "Werehog"? For me, I thought it was absolutely ridiculous. The mere thought of it seemed so unorthodox for Sonic, or a decent gaming series in general. I look past it while I play and only judge the game for what it is, but I have to say this has to be one of their silliest ideas yet.

I think that, had fans not demanded for a while now that Sonic should be the only playable character, they would've used Knuckles for the Werehog parts.
Anyway, I was never really bothered by it. The design of the Werehog isn't too outrageous if you ask me.

Speaking of Knuckles: how did he get downgraded so much as a character? He hasn't really been around in ages, not even in cutscenes. Poor Knuckles, being treated the same way as the likes of Silver.

 

[Kokonoe]

I think that, had fans not demanded for a while now that Sonic should be the only playable character, they would've used Knuckles for the Werehog parts.
Anyway, I was never really bothered by it. The design of the Werehog isn't too outrageous if you ask me.

It's not so much the looks, it's the thought of a "Werewolf Hedgehog" and mixing it into Sonic himself.

Using Knuckles would've been a much better option.

Speaking of Knuckles: how did he get downgraded so much as a character? He hasn't really been around in ages, not even in cutscenes. Poor Knuckles, being treated the same way as the likes of Silver.

Shadow took his place, and Iizuka is Shadow's creator so...yeah.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Speaking of Knuckles: how did he get downgraded so much as a character? He hasn't really been around in ages, not even in cutscenes. Poor Knuckles, being treated the same way as the likes of Silver.

Actually, I think this is an improvement. Not that Shadow is a better character than Knuckles, mind, but Knuckles has a goddamn floating island that he should be guarding. Instead, he keeps popping down to the surface to hang out with Sonic and Tails for no adequately explored reason, starting some time around Sonic Heroes. He had absolutely no reason to be involved in 2K6. None.

By keeping him out of plots that don't directly impact Angel Island, or otherwise have some logic as to why he'd be away from it (such as celebrating his friend Sonic's birthday in Generations), they're actually staying true to his established character. That's likely doing him a favor, instead of letting him get flanderized into "just Sonic's other best pal" (if you'll forgive the TVTropes parlance).

 

[Kokonoe]

That would be true if they didn't turn him into a laughing stock, though. He was quite clever in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but it went really downhill from there.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Of all the people to say such a thing

Haha, was I against the air dash at some point? When implemented properly I think it's an okay thing for "There's nothing nearby to homing attack".

But it also relies on things like the homing attack being in a scenario that makes sense and is working correctly - this has largely been solved by things like the crosshair and the little "beep" it makes when it locks on to something, because now you know for sure when and what you're going to have a successful homing attack at.

 

[TheOGB]

That would be true if they didn't turn him into a laughing stock, though. He was quite clever in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but it went really downhill from there.

Heh, not quite sure how to respond to that. ;P


HAHA, TAKE THAT, SYSTEM!
-Go into Mazuri Entrance Stage
-Beat up enemies
-Leave
-Return and repeat

Hello, beefed up 'hog.

Spoiler

And did anyone else know you could upgrade in the middle of a level?

 

[Kokonoe]

Heh, not quite sure how to respond to that. ;P

He may have been tricked by Eggman, but he managed to trick/trap Sonic and Tails on a consistent basis.

 

[TheOGB]

I bet Eggman told him what to do :V

Or, all the same, he knew the island better than anyone else.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Heh, not quite sure how to respond to that. ;P


HAHA, TAKE THAT, SYSTEM!
-Go into Mazuri Entrance Stage
-Beat up enemies
-Leave
-Return and repeat

Hello, beefed up 'hog.

Spoiler

And did anyone else know you could upgrade in the middle of a level?

Spoiler

Actually, I don't think you can actually upgrade - it just shows you how you can allocate points.

I think I tried it once and it just reset when I got to the results screen.

 

[Kokonoe]

I bet Eggman told him what to do :V

Or, all the same, he knew the island better than anyone else.

Hence the consistent basis. It's Sonic The Hedgehog we're talking about.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Spoiler

Actually, I don't think you can actually upgrade - it just shows you how you can allocate points.

I think I tried it once and it just reset when I got to the results screen.

No, you can totally pop open the status window and upgrade any time you want. Just note that checkpoints stick, so if you upgrade your abilities and die, you have to re-allocate.

 

[Kokonoe]

For Werehog, I'd like to offer a tip that'll really help you later on when you meet these red hornet things of doom. Just grab them with B when they're at full health, and keep slamming them back and forth over and over. It's the easiest way to kill them, and you can kill other things at the same time.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Also as the werehog, always have the grab button held down any time you leap so you'll immediately stick to ledges and stuff in the vicinity. Makes a lot of the blind jumps a little safer.

 

[RobbieNick]

No, you can totally pop open the status window and upgrade any time you want. Just note that checkpoints stick, so if you upgrade your abilities and die, you have to re-allocate.

Here's a major tip for leveling.

Find Wentos. He's the shy guy with the Italian speaking Chao Puppet.

Buy a ton of pizzas from him.

Then sell them back. He pays more for the pizzas than he sells them for.

Use money to buy tons of chili dogs.

Eat your way to higher leveling.

 

[Kokonoe]

Also as the werehog, always have the grab button held down any time you leap so you'll immediately stick to ledges and stuff in the vicinity. Makes a lot of the blind jumps a little safer.

I didn't that know that. I usually just spam the B button.

Here's a major tip for leveling.

Find Wentos. He's the shy guy with the Italian speaking Chao Puppet.

Buy a ton of pizzas from him.

Then sell them back. He pays more for the pizzas than he sells them for.

Use money to buy tons of chili dogs.

Eat your way to higher leveling.

infanute monees

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I started up SA: DX on my PS3 last night, to see what it looked like on a HD TV. What the shit is up with that border around the game screen? What the Hell is going on with the camera, I can't remember it being as shitty and broken as this? What the fuck is wrong with the hit detection? Why is this shit so awful?

 

[Pietepiet]

I find it amazing that SAX is worse than the Dreamcast original.

I also find it amazing that Sega claims it's a Dreamcast Collection when none of the games on there (apart from Space Channel 5 maybe?) are actually the Dreamcast originals....

 

[Zen]

I've stated my opinion on the double jump in this game earlier in this thread, but yeah, it is rather pointless due to it's design. It makes platforming sections slower as well.

I found that is helped compensate for the stiff feeling of Sonics jumps in Colors. Having it in was much better than without because there's no do over if you were going to accidentally over/under shoot. Cn't really see why someone would say it was needless.

I still don't like Colors. It just strays way too far from Sonic gameplay for my taste. There are things I like about it, but the negatives far outweigh the good.

One thing that really annoys me is the fact that he has a double jump. There just isn't any reason. It just makes platforming clunky.

The double jump isn't why the platforming is clunky, the platforming is clunky because Sonics movement in colors is clunky. Double jumping makes it more forgiving in light of how stiff the movement is. Just imagine doing all the jumps with no recovery potential.

 

[Mr Swine]

Phew, finally took the time and completed Sonic Generations. Fantastic Sonic game, too bad the last 3 levels are so painful long

 

[qq more]

Phew, finally took the time and completed Sonic Generations. Fantastic Sonic game, too bad the last 3 levels are so painful long

Really? I thought Planet Wisp was the only really painfully long level. But yeah, great game!

 

[Azure Dream]

I find it amazing that SAX is worse than the Dreamcast original.

Here's the ugly thing. It's not even a pure port of SAX. You have Sonic Adventure. Then Sonic Team did SAX for the Gamecube. Then ??? ported it to PC, reducing some of the little details in areas and removing the water effects. (And somewhere around 2009 or 2010 another version was released for the PC that was amazingly more broken). Then Sega Shanghai I believe did the amazing crapjob of a port that's on XBLA and PSN and now PC, based on the stripped-down PC port based on the janky Gamecube port based on the Dreamcast original.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Here's the ugly thing. It's not even a pure port of SAX. You have Sonic Adventure. Then Sonic Team did SAX for the Gamecube. Then ??? ported it to PC, reducing some of the little details in areas and removing the water effects. (And somewhere around 2009 or 2010 another version was released for the PC that was amazingly more broken). Then Sega Shanghai I believe did the amazing crapjob of a port that's on XBLA and PSN and now PC, based on the stripped-down PC port based on the janky Gamecube port based on the Dreamcast original.

The bolded is a port of the XBLA version, fairly certain.

So it's a PC port of an Xbox 360 port of a PC port of a GC port of a DC game.

 

[UnlovedJew]

The bolded is a port of the XBLA version, fairly certain.

So it's a PC port of an Xbox 360 port of a PC port of a GC port of a DC game.

Let's just say it's god damn Inception in game form. XD

 

[nns3d]

Phew, finally took the time and completed Sonic Generations. Fantastic Sonic game, too bad the last 3 levels are so painful long

Planet Wisp was the only level I felt really dragged on, but the last 3rd of the game isn't as strong as the other two eras (outside of Classic Crisis City).

 

[Dark Schala]

So it's a PC port of an Xbox 360 port of a PC port of a GC port of a DC game.

Who was the genius at SEGA who made this decision? Was it the same guy who approved the Meow Mix?

 

[qq more]

http://info.sonicretro.org/Final_Fever


:O



http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=26302&st=2970&p=686804&#entry686804

DLC for the scrapped sonic CD levels possible!

:O :O

 

[TheCongressman1]

http://info.sonicretro.org/Final_Fever


:O



http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=26302&st=2970&p=686804&#entry686804

DLC for the scrapped sonic CD levels possible!

:O :O

Oh, HECK YES. Will buy if it comes out.

 

[Lijik]

Oh, HECK YES. Will buy if it comes out.

Super approve of your new avatar, vantoggle art is best art

 

[Nert]

Planet Wisp was the only level I felt really dragged on, but the last 3rd of the game isn't as strong as the other two eras (outside of Classic Crisis City).

Modern Rooftop Run is probably my favorite level in the game. Modern Planet Wisp was a lot of fun until the stage hit the tower section : /

 

[TheCongressman1]

Super approve of your new avatar, vantoggle art is best art

Thanks, mang! It was high time for a change, I had the other one for what, a year?

Yeah, I saved a bunch of his doodles, and this is one of my favorites, so I colored it. Love his stuff.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Part 119 is up.

 

[Dark Schala]

Man, the Sonic 4 thread is killing me...

I'm pretty sure it's because I'm as tired as heck and can't really internalize my irritability like usual.

Part 119 is up.

Oh thank goodness. I thought they quit. :lol

DLC for the scrapped sonic CD levels possible!

:O :O

I want Sonic CD DLC levels... What channels do we go through for this? I seem to remember this stuff coming up around launch, and the premise seemed interesting. I'd try it.

 

[qq more]

Man, the Sonic 4 thread is killing me...

I'm pretty sure it's because I'm as tired as heck and can't really internalize my irritability like usual.


Oh thank goodness. I thought they quit. :lol


I want Sonic CD DLC levels... What channels do we go through for this? I seem to remember this stuff coming up around launch, and the premise seemed interesting. I'd try it.

sega always listens to retro sonic and their own forums


and i guess neogaf because of ruby?

 

[Dark Schala]

sega always listens to retro sonic and their own forums


and i guess neogaf because of ruby?

Does Ruby even know that this thread exists?

 

[Emitan]

Does Ruby even know that this thread exists?

It's community! No one knows we exist!

 

[Seven Force]

http://info.sonicretro.org/Final_Fever


:O



http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=26302&st=2970&p=686804&#entry686804

DLC for the scrapped sonic CD levels possible!

:O :O

This would be awesome. Looking through that thread a bit more, are there some bugs in the CD port that need to be fixed? Someone in that thread mentioned it.

 

[Shadow Hog]

There are. For instance, y'know the vertical conveyor belts in Quartz Quadrant Zone? I used to time travel all the time in those; set them to shoot you directly upward out of them, and you can bounce in them ad infinitum at speeds fast enough to toggle the time warp. That doesn't work in the remake. Trying to change time zones without it is difficult as hell.