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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|

D

Dario ff

Banned
Time for a new adventure to be unleashed.

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C

CrimsonCrescendo

Banned
Dark Schala said:
I take it that everyone's been busy, haven't they? :V

I've have finals to study for and papers to do, so I'm up to my ears in work. That, and I guess folks are busy with March video games.
Click to expand...

Got 3 projects to work on as well as the usual work load. Responsibility and all that jazz. Partly why I've been posting so infrequently.
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Sega-related April Fools stuff was actually decent this year. From official sites and fansites, I mean. Everything was better than the Capcom one, even though the Model No. joke was pretty cool to me.

I finished FFX. Moved onto X-2 on Vita. Playing Neptunia Victory to placate Coldman. Donkey Kong Country: TF World 5 now on Wii U (World 4's boss messed me up some, and I heard it was easier in multiplayer). Yoshi's New Island on 3DS which is surprisingly not that bad.

The music in YNI is poop for the most part still, though.

Paper due on Friday, finals throughout the month. Yay.

Oh! Um, if any of you have any ideas for Soundtrack of the Year this year, just let me or Ghaleon know here or via PM. Nert's totally welcome to pitch in at any time, because I respect what he's done for the threads in the past.

Dario ff said:
Time for a new adventure to be unleashed.
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I missed the Final Story episode of Sonic 2006. It must've been cool live. -_-
 
C

ChamplooJones

Formerly Momotaro
What's SonicGaf's opinion on Lost World's ost?

I really like some of the tracks, but it feels a bit underwhelming compared to Unleashed and Colors.
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Momotaro said:
What's SonicGaf's opinion on Lost World's ost?

I really like some of the tracks, but it feels a bit underwhelming compared to Unleashed and Colors.
Click to expand...
Yeah, some of the tracks are really good, but at the same time, it doesn't feel all-encompassing like Unleashed and Colours.

I still maintain that Unleashed was the game where they put so much into the art and music direction to make the whole thing on a presentation level work so well in combination with each other. It's part of the reason why I like the game despite its faults.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Dark Schala said:
Oh! Um, if any of you have any ideas for Soundtrack of the Year this year, just let me or Ghaleon know here or via PM. Nert's totally welcome to pitch in at any time, because I respect what he's done for the threads in the past.
Click to expand...
Ideas? well I don't know if you have changes in mind already or if there's much that needs to be changed but I'll keep this in mind, perhaps there's some sort of role I can play here.

Momotaro said:
What's SonicGaf's opinion on Lost World's ost?

I really like some of the tracks, but it feels a bit underwhelming compared to Unleashed and Colors.
Click to expand...
I will continue to think it's at a pretty similar level to the previous three console games, though admittedly when it's weaker its much more noticeable as heard in some late game stages in particular which drags things down (seems just about all of the late game only serves to weaken Lost World further in most respects).
Otherwise I find it to have a pretty strong level of quality throughout, plus Sea Bottom Segue was the best water stage theme I'd heard since...well Aquarium park I guess.

I can see the point about it not feeling as cohesive as the likes of Colours and Unleashed in particular but that's more because of how Lost World structures itself in the first place, in turn this leads to some interesting variety in style at times. In a sense you could say the music is one part of the game that actually takes advantage of the game being all over the place.

Shadow Hog said:
Haven't listened to it that much.

However, it gave us NocturneOwl's theme, so it's not all bad.
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Also this.
(I initially feared the worst, as in the other Nocturne)
 
B

BlackJace

Member
Ultimately, I liked Unleashed, and would play it again. Like Schala said, I did see a lot of effort put into it, and its faults didn't really outweigh its highlights.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
I think Lost World continued a very awesome trend they have going for modern Sonic games. The stages play around with a very defined melodic motif, and aren't afraid to experiment. As people have said, Sea Bottom Segue is pretty God-tier.

I think where Lost World falls flat is in its orchestral (or "orchestral") segments. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors had the benefit of professional orchestrator (Takahito Eguchi for Unleashed, Larry Hochman for Colors) and the budget to hire an actual orchestra.

While Eguchi-san -did- orchestrate for Lost World as well, the final product highly suggests that they had to skim on the budget as far as recording and mixing it went. Wonder World simply does not hold a candle to Theme of Sonic Colors (Amsterdam Session Orchestra) and The World Adventure (Tokyo Philharmonic). Let's not forget stuff like this either.

At this point of time considering what I now do for a living this may seem really egotistical for me to say it, but really, I think the orchestrals in Lost World could have turned out a -lot- better. There is a very strong orchestral tradition for Sonic games now, and I'd really like to see a return to form going forward on that facet of the franchise's musical identity.

We're actually in direct contact with SEGA's CEO for other things so this is something I want to at least try to bring up in a very politically correct manner. VGO's session rates right now are probably the most reasonable in the entirety of NA and God knows I'd probably work quadruple my pay working on anything Sonic-related in an official capacity
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
BlackJace said:
Ultimately, I liked Unleashed, and would play it again. Like Schala said, I did see a lot of effort put into it, and its faults didn't really outweigh its highlights.
Click to expand...
At the same time, just because some effort was put into it, I do realize that the pacing for the game entirely is really odd because of the night levels and backtracking in general.

I usually say that Unleashed is like an RPG for me, so that's why I don't mind it as much as a lot of other folks do.

Nocturnowl said:
Ideas? well I don't know if you have changes in mind already or if there's much that needs to be changed but I'll keep this in mind, perhaps there's some sort of role I can play here.
Click to expand...
Got a PM already, so you can go ahead and suggest anything when you feel free.

Falk said:
I think where Lost World falls flat is in its orchestral (or "orchestral") segments. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors had the benefit of professional orchestrator (Takahito Eguchi for Unleashed, Larry Hochman for Colors) and the budget to hire an actual orchestra.

While Eguchi-san -did- orchestrate for Lost World as well, the final product highly suggests that they had to skim on the budget as far as recording and mixing it went. Wonder World simply does not hold a candle to Theme of Sonic Colors (Amsterdam Session Orchestra) and The World Adventure (Tokyo Philharmonic). Let's not forget stuff like this either.

At this point of time considering what I now do for a living this may seem really egotistical for me to say it, but really, I think the orchestrals in Lost World could have turned out a -lot- better. There is a very strong orchestral tradition for Sonic games now, and I'd really like to see a return to form going forward on that facet of the franchise's musical identity.
Click to expand...
No, I actually agree with that, and that's part of the reason why I didn't think too much of the soundtrack. Something about the 'orchestration' and arrangement bothered me and I couldn't put my finger on what it was. It wasn't just the whole "man, this doesn't sound Sonic-like at all", but I do think the "orchestrated" parts fit into it too. I guess they didn't have as grand a budget like they did with the previous three games, and that's a bit of a surprise to me, I guess? Music just didn't seem like it was the thing that they'd skimp on, especially since they've had precedent for that.

Like I said, Lost World certainly has some stand-out tracks like Sea-Bottom Segue. I think Dario would agree with me that the one time when we watched that stream of Lost World with the dude who... just didn't learn from his mistakes so we had to listen to that theme for 30 minutes straight, it's a theme I'd probably wouldn't go back to right away, but I won't deny that it's really good. The thing I like about Sonic--and since it's related--the FF13 soundtracks is that the series just isn't afraid to experiment with other genres. I think that's a little rooted in the older soundtracks' callbacks to pop songs (especially with Sonic 1's soundtrack). You have so many genres woven into one soundtrack and that's the kind of thing I like. Sometimes this can work well, but other times, it doesn't work as well depending on the combination of the genre used, the level's pace, and the tempo of the music.

Also, ooooooooh. :O
 
V

Village

Member
Mario Kart makes me hype for A new Sanic racing.

If the trend continues it will be way better than mario kart. I will still play both though, mk8 is beautiful.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
Should've mentioned it sooner, given the day only has three hours left until it's done, but hey guys, I'm 26 today.

I'd post the cake, but I figure I'll let somebody else have the honors.
 
T

TheOGB

Banned
Falk said:
In other news:

http://www.vgmonline.net/nominations2013/

3.6. Outstanding Achievement – Main Theme
Sonic: Lost World – Wonder World
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Hoping Jake Kaufman and Jamie Christopherson come away with awards.

Oh wait, Christopherson's up against Grant Kirkhope. GG He's in a category of his own--nope, Shota Kageyama and Mick Gordon are in that one, nevermind. (But I'd take MGR's soundtrack over KI's). Hope rests on the shoulders of It Has to Be This Way.

Shadow Hog said:
Should've mentioned it sooner, given the day only has three hours left until it's done, but hey guys, I'm 26 today.

I'd post the cake, but I figure I'll let somebody else have the honors.
Click to expand...
Happy birthday Shadow Hog!
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
TheOGB said:
Hoping Jake Kaufman and Jamie Christopherson come away with awards.

Oh wait, Christopherson's up against Grant Kirkhope. GG He's in a category of his own--nope, Shota Kageyama and Mick Gordon are in that one, nevermind. (But I'd take MGR's soundtrack over KI's). Hope rests on the shoulders of It Has to Be This Way.
Click to expand...

The list is pretty damned extensive, actually. I really appreciate what they're doing in that they are accepting submissions for consideration and listening through -everything- which makes it a lot more legit than the meaningless western/AAA circle jerk that is the usual video game awards.

On the other hand, by its own definition it is impossible to have listened to everything ever in a particular given year. Just, no. Even with community submissions, things fall through the cracks. So while it's a good list, it's not extensive. I think even Chris himself realizes that to some degree, which is good.

Still:
2.3. Outstanding Contribution – Independent Composer
SHADE (Pastel Chime 3: Bind Seeker, Oyako Rankan)

This guy composes for hentai games hahahah. I'm glad he's getting recognition.

edit: Come to think of it, I should try my hand at that. Fast track to stardom~
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
BlackJace said:
The Mario Kart 8 hype is real. There's at least 6 threads on the front page.

Need to gets me a Wii U.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what GAF said about Super Mario 3D World?
I'd still get a Wii U over a PS4 or X1 as they actually have more than a handful of games I actually want to play on that system
 
A

Azure Dream

Member
Welp, here goes the GAF "shit on Sonic" parade, I guess. Time to drag out all that fan art you've been saving up! You know, the ones you post in any vaguely Sonic topic anyway.

Nevermind the fact that whoever wrote that article made the most fucking stupid assumptions I've seen in a professional article in quite some time. It literally tries to revise history to make the classic Genesis games bad because of "invisible pixels" and the fucking sound effects. It calls Sonic irrelevant when Amazon featured the series front-and-center just two days ago, not to mention Nintendo's obviously happy enough to lend them their highly-guarded Yoshi and Legend of Zelda series for Lost World. I'm sure they would've done the same for a new Croc game, right?

It's so god damn facepalm-worthy, and yet it's getting completely ignored because "Let's post the shitty DeviantArt LOLOLO!" And I know that's partially what the article is supposed to be about, but it bases its argument on something that's, again, really fucking stupid.

Edit: Not completely ignored, but it's mostly the same batch of people I've seen defending Sonic before, and obviously anyone with a Sonic avatar isn't going to be taken seriously. I'm counting the minutes until "lol pony avatar" for my own post, as if that somehow discredits it.
 
A

Azure Dream

Member
Falk said:
Thanks for spreading it beyond that thread?
Click to expand...

You're so very welcome. Certainly I wasn't pointing it out to other people here who might be interested in knowing it's occurring, and airing my frustration to a community I thought might be sympathetic.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
I've been wanting to post about that thread in here.
In actuality what I would've posted was along the lines of how this is the only sane place to talk about the Sonic franchise, and how I become cautious whenever a Sonic thread pops up on the General Discussion Forum.
 
O

OMG Aero

Member
I was reading that article at work yesterday and can get over the parts of it discussing Sonic fans themselves because, hey, a lot of Sonic fans are fucking weird.
The thing that gets me about that article is when it says that if you go back and play the original Mega Drive Sonic games they aren't good games, suggesting either that they were a product of their time that haven't aged well or that they weren't good games to begin with and we enjoyed them because we were kids and our standards were lower.

Now granted I'm asking an extremely biased group of people, but it's not just me who thinks this is crazy right? I end up playing through Sonic 1, 2, and 3 & Knuckles maybe once a year or so and they still seem like great games to me (1 maybe not so much, but 2 and 3 & Knuckles would still rank highly in a games of all time list for me). It's not just that article where I've seen that either, I'm pretty sure Giant Bomb have said this at some point and it seems to be a common point in discussions about how the latest Sonic game is bad that the originals weren't good anyway.

I'm not just being blinded by the nostalgia of playing those games while I was a kid am I? Those games are actually still great games right?
 
T

TheOGB

Banned
You're not crazy, Sonic 2 and 3&K (bare minimum) are legit great games.

Honestly I can understand people not digging the old games; I'm one of the weirdos who doesn't care much about Donkey Kong Country, after all. But I don't go around saying they were shit and the series was never good, just that I personally didn't like em that much. It's possible to see quality in things you don't like.
 
R

Razzer

Member
OMG Aero said:
I was reading that article at work yesterday and can get over the parts of it discussing Sonic fans themselves because, hey, a lot of Sonic fans are fucking weird.
The thing that gets me about that article is when it says that if you go back and play the original Mega Drive Sonic games they aren't good games, suggesting either that they were a product of their time that haven't aged well or that they weren't good games to begin with and we enjoyed them because we were kids and our standards were lower.

Now granted I'm asking an extremely biased group of people, but it's not just me who thinks this is crazy right? I end up playing through Sonic 1, 2, and 3 & Knuckles maybe once a year or so and they still seem like great games to me (1 maybe not so much, but 2 and 3 & Knuckles would still rank highly in a games of all time list for me). It's not just that article where I've seen that either, I'm pretty sure Giant Bomb have said this at some point and it seems to be a common point in discussions about how the latest Sonic game is bad that the originals weren't good anyway.

I'm not just being blinded by the nostalgia of playing those games while I was a kid am I? Those games are actually still great games right?
Click to expand...

They are still great, yep. Excellent presentation, especially the audiovisual presentation of the levels themselves. A simple moveset that is explored in as many ways possible, great level and enemy design, a good variety of collectibles and powerups. If you look at a level map they are very intricate with lots of hidden depth that is usually reserved to metroidvania style games rather than platformers. And the special stages are pretty fun too. Honestly for a platformer those are pretty much all the qualities you could ask for imo.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Yes to me the Genesis Sonic games have aged well and are still fun to play.

What I find is funny is that you will hardly find anyone who would agree to the statement:
'The Mario games haven't aged well and we only enjoyed them because we were 'kids and our standards were lower' or for being products of their time.'
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Sooooooooooo, aside from prob. Schalla, anyone else playing Prof. Layton vs. Phoenix Wright? Really enjoying it but the graphics or rather the animation of some of the character models pale in comparison to AA5.

Everytime the ! pops up when I click on an object or person just has me think out 'Of course there was a puzzle there'.
 
B

BlazeHedgehog

Member
OMG Aero said:
I was reading that article at work yesterday and can get over the parts of it discussing Sonic fans themselves because, hey, a lot of Sonic fans are fucking weird.
The thing that gets me about that article is when it says that if you go back and play the original Mega Drive Sonic games they aren't good games, suggesting either that they were a product of their time that haven't aged well or that they weren't good games to begin with and we enjoyed them because we were kids and our standards were lower.

Now granted I'm asking an extremely biased group of people, but it's not just me who thinks this is crazy right? I end up playing through Sonic 1, 2, and 3 & Knuckles maybe once a year or so and they still seem like great games to me (1 maybe not so much, but 2 and 3 & Knuckles would still rank highly in a games of all time list for me). It's not just that article where I've seen that either, I'm pretty sure Giant Bomb have said this at some point and it seems to be a common point in discussions about how the latest Sonic game is bad that the originals weren't good anyway.

I'm not just being blinded by the nostalgia of playing those games while I was a kid am I? Those games are actually still great games right?
Click to expand...

Perception is a weird fucking thing, and it's a door that swings both ways. If you don't want to like something, it's very easy to pick out negatives and justify your expectations, or alternatively, forgive flaws in something you are predisposed to thinking is accepted as good.

When you work in "games media", you often have to generate impressions of a game very quickly. Now, I don't want to sound like I am making excuses for bad games or anything, but even Sonic's "good" games have been the sorts of things that usually require practice to be good at. These have never really been media-friendly games, and I really think the real test of how good a modern Sonic game is comes in how fun it is to replay after you've "finished" the game. Some would say the same thing happened to something like Wonderful 101; it's a game meant to be replayed and perfected, but since the media was looking for something they could burn through once and never think about again, review scores were all over the map.

Some Sonic games have been SUPER bad, no doubt about it, but from the impatient perspective of the media, even the good Sonic games are at a disadvantage. And eventually, this creates the perspective that all Sonic games will always be bad, because they don't have the time to sit there and learn whether they're good or bad beyond what's strictly on the surface. Eventually this applies retroactively.

Like, that's how I was with Sonic 2006. That game was so bad that I couldn't even really enjoy Sonic 2 for a while. I didn't want anything to do with blue hedgehogs.

That's what the media sees all the time. They never had their "No, actually, Sonic 2's still a good game!" recovery moment. It's just bad Sonic games, everywhere, all the time, forever, and they're never going to go back and try to enjoy Sonic 2 again, because why would they? There's no time. Gotta look forward, not backward. Got articles to write, cons to attend, and new games are always piling up faster than you can play them.

And the peanut gallery? They're just there to throw popcorn at the stage.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Tizoc said:
Sooooooooooo, aside from prob. Schalla, anyone else playing Prof. Layton vs. Phoenix Wright? Really enjoying it but the graphics or rather the animation of some of the character models pale in comparison to AA5.

Everytime the ! pops up when I click on an object or person just has me think out 'Of course there was a puzzle there'.
Click to expand...

I thought it was pretty stellar, it's good as a Layton game and good as a Wright game, not the best for either series but it does a nice job of bringing the two series together.
I didn't expect the combo of Wright and Layton to fill me with fanboyish glee but it really did, two of my favourite video game characters right there.

Soundtrack is also pretty swish, some neat remixes and great new stuff, I mean you've got medieval takes on Ace Attorney courtroom music tropes as well as obligatory Layton accordion.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Azure Dream said:
You're so very welcome. Certainly I wasn't pointing it out to other people here who might be interested in knowing it's occurring, and airing my frustration to a community I thought might be sympathetic.
Click to expand...

Tizoc said:
I've been wanting to post about that thread in here.
In actuality what I would've posted was along the lines of how this is the only sane place to talk about the Sonic franchise, and how I become cautious whenever a Sonic thread pops up on the General Discussion Forum.
Click to expand...

These threads/articles are a pretty common occurrence nowadays. You either get used to it or it nags you to distraction. Most of us who are past that phase would rather just pretend they don't exist when not actively seeking out and posting in them just because. >:C
 
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