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Sony Hi-MD vs Apple iPod. Round 1. FIGHT!

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D

Dragona Akehi

Retired
Alright. I need a portable music player. Here's my problem: I'm poor. I was dissappointed with the regular Net MDs because of the fact that they don't outright support MP3, though I was impressed with the 132 kbps ATRAC3 encoding's sound quality. However even with suffering with the audial downgrade, it's only 2 1/2 hours. Not good enough.


The iPod (or iRiver and other players) are prohibitively expensive. However, they're removable storage drives (or can be used as one), and the iPod comes in a 40GB size. Also, no matter what, a HDD will crap out eventually, no matter how well cared for it is.

So, now I've been eyeing the new Sony Hi-MD recorder as an option. It's 1GB compared to the 170MB discs of the previous generation of MD, and it can double as a removable 1GB storage drive. Not bad at all so far. Still, it requires me to transfer my files from MP3 to ATRAC3 or ATRAC3+. Ruining, of course my anal ripping methods. However, the Hi-MD is "technically" infinite in storage, as I can simply buy more discs. And so far as I understand it, the entire MD line is the only "safe" Sony line in existence in terms of quality and lifespans.

I have over 25 gigs of MP3s, all ripped at the highest quality possible (VBR Lame Extreme or OGG files). I'd like to keep them as near to this quality as possible.

So, what do I choose? Get a Hi-MD now since I would be able to budget its expense, or wait until I have money for an iPod? (Which will probably be never?)

So, go ahead fanbots. Influence my purchase.
 
S

Suerte

Member
Why not check out other (cheaper) brands of MP3 players? Creative's MP3 players are very good and are cheaper compared to an iPod.
 
S

Seth C

Member
Is Hi-MD the same as the new UMD? I assume not. I'd consider waiting for the UMD players that will surely come out around the time of PSP.
 
E

Error Macro

Member
Speaking strictly from the perspective of an MD fan, I would absolutely get the Hi-MD player. I don't like iPod's. Okay, maybe like isn't the right word. Despise? Yes, that's it.
 
D

Dragona Akehi

Retired
Suerte: They're too small. I want a good amount of music on my unit. Anything smaller than 1GB is unacceptable, (yes I know I'm being difficult) since they're almost the price of a Hi-MD unit anyway. :p

Also, I'll use this thread to add that I wish there was a Winamp Box of some sort, so I could have OGG files and all of their plug-ins available for use.
 
A

aoi tsuki

Member
Even as an MD fan, i'd probably say look at a HD-based MP3 player. Chances are you could just move much of your collection over transcoding as you would with a MD unit, although the loss in quality would likely be unnoticeable with higher bitrate files. If you needed live recording i'd say look into Hi-MD, although at $200 the lowest end unit doesn't support it.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Dragona Akehi said:
Suerte: They're too small. I want a good amount of music on my unit. Anything smaller than 1GB is unacceptable, (yes I know I'm being difficult) since they're almost the price of a Hi-MD unit anyway. :p

Also, I'll use this thread to add that I wish there was a Winamp Box of some sort, so I could have OGG files and all of their plug-ins available for use.
Click to expand...

Err, they are NOT too small...

In fact, you can get MORE space than an iPod for less money.
 
S

Suerte

Member
Dragona Akehi said:
Suerte: They're too small. I want a good amount of music on my unit. Anything smaller than 1GB is unacceptable, (yes I know I'm being difficult) since they're almost the price of a Hi-MD unit anyway. :p

Also, I'll use this thread to add that I wish there was a Winamp Box of some sort, so I could have OGG files and all of their plug-ins available for use.
Click to expand...

Eh? Creative players come in 20GB, 30GB, 40GB and even 60GB varieties dude :)
 
D

Dragona Akehi

Retired
Dude?

Ah, as for the Creative products I haven't seen their HDD based ones. I thought you were referring to the Memory Card units. (128MB? Psht.)
 
D

Dragona Akehi

Retired
So what's the highest capacity for the Creative ones? Only 20GB? If I'm going for a HDD based system it has to be over 20 GB (which is why I mentioned the iPod, since it is as far as I know, the only 40GB system.)
 
S

Suerte

Member
Dragona Akehi said:
So what's the highest capacity for the Creative ones? Only 20GB? If I'm going for a HDD based system it has to be over 20 GB (which is why I mentioned the iPod, since it is as far as I know, the only 40GB system.)
Click to expand...

Did you even read my other post? I said they come in 20GB, 30GB, 40GB and even 60GB.
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
No current model of the iPod supports OGG at the moment, although the rumblings - the pre-rumors, if you will - suggest that Apple will consider it for the next generation units, whenever they come out. Some argue that it's Apple being stubborn, the more practical answer is that there's an actual technical issue involved in why they don't support more codecs beyond mp3, wav, aiff, and m4a/aac.

Ask yourself how much music you'd like with you at any given time. HDD-based players (which seem to have very long lives, I have friends with 1G iPods that are still playing just fine). If you'd like ALL 25 gigs with you at any given moment, you're going to need a HDD-based unit, that, or an MD-player and nice tote bag. If money's an issue (and apparently it is), there are plenty of Flash-based players available, and several 1.5GB-4GB HDD players out there that don't cost an arm and a leg.
 
W

wandering goat

Member
I have a Karma and I love it. I have a warantee on it, and if it ever starts repeatedly breaking down (though I've had it for several months with absolutely no problems), I'd consider replacing it with a Hi-MD player. On Hi-MD, you can get 34 hours on hi-lp mode (which is supposed to be similar to 128 kb MP3), which would give me a good amount of room with two or three discs (and I have some normal mini discs lying around from when I used to have an MD player) without cluttering the interface with hundreds of different artists like my Karma is right now. MD players are supposed to be very durable and have very high battery life. Keep in mind that I don't think you can buy additional Hi-MD discs yet, so you'll only have the one that it comes with.

You might want to check out the Karma. About the only bad thing I've heard about it is that some units seem to have hard-drive problems (so getting a warantee would be a good idea). It can play OGG files as well, which sounds useful to you. The sound quality is very, very good, the battery life is quite high, it supports a lot of music formats, and the interface is nice. It's fairly inexpensive as well. You can get the 20 gig for less than the price of a 15 gig iPod.

A question about the Hi-MDs: Do you have to go to the menu to set playback to random or can you do it at the touch of a button? One thing that annoys me about the Karma is having to go through several nested menus to change the mode to random, which I do quite often.
 
J

joaomgcd

Member
I highly recommend the Creative Nomad Zen Xtra... I got the 60GB model, and it has much more functionality than the iPod. It's not as pretty, and the interface is not as intuitive, but once you get used to it, it is much better. You also get 14 hours of play, with one battery charge (iPod's is much less) and better sound too.
 
D

Doth Togo

Member
Suerte said:
Why not check out other (cheaper) brands of MP3 players? Creative's MP3 players are very good and are cheaper compared to an iPod.
Click to expand...

IAWTP.

My Creative at least 12 hours battery life, 30gigs for the price of a 10gig iPod.
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
joaomgcd said:
You also get 14 hours of play, with one battery charge (iPod's is much less) and better sound too.
Click to expand...

Speaking as someone who was running his iPod on a completely empty battery meter for approximately more than an hour a few days ago, I'm going to contest that "much less." By my rough calculations, an iPod can go for about eight hours and change on one charge.

But like any device like this, you should really just keep it on the charger when you're not using it. The Li-Ion battery will thank you.
 
D

Dragona Akehi

Retired
Ok, while I appreciate all of the suggestions here's the scoop. I can't order online, and there are only the iPod (or iRiver) OR the Hi-MD available in my area. So between the two. (I understand that iRiver only comes in 20GB models...) which one?
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Dragona Akehi said:
Ok, while I appreciate all of the suggestions here's the scoop. I can't order online, and there are only the iPod (or iRiver) OR the Hi-MD available in my area. So between the two. (I understand that iRiver only comes in 20GB models...) which one?
Click to expand...

Are you planning on carrying most of your music around with you? That's really the main purpose of the large capacity players. If not, save the cash and get a good pair of headphones.
 
S

Semjaza Azazel

Member
Which iRiver?

http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/H120.aspx

That one? It does come in 40 GB models, but I suppose that would depend on your store.

Personally, I've been avoiding the iPod because I don't want to deal with iTunes on my PC (although there are alternatives like a WinAMP plugin and Anapod). The iRiver acts as a external hard drive in XP, so I find it a bit more appealing personally.
 
M

Matlock

Banned
Step 1: Rip your songs to mp3.
Step 2: burn MP3's as files onto a CD-R
Step 3: Buy a Sony CD Walkman that plays MP3 files

Total cost:

$70-$120

...or, if you want a little more portable, I'd have to refer back to Tre on this one, but there are mini-CD players and mini-CD-R's. Of which, the mini-CD-R's still store a couple of hours worth of music.
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Semjaza Azazel said:
Not in the same sense. You can't really just go into it via My Computer and place every last thing in there exactly how you want (music included), last I saw.
Click to expand...

It shows up as another drive as soon as you plug it in, there's no reason to drop music in through that particular channel since iTunes takes care of that, and both iTunes and the iPod sort by ID3, not file and directory name.
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Semjaza Azazel said:
Yes, and that's the problem for me. I don't want to use iTunes lol.

If it works for other people, cool. It's a turn off for me.
Click to expand...

Whether or not you use iTunes, the iPod is still going to sort by ID3 information. :p
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Semjaza Azazel said:
Yeah, I know. I don't really like that fact. I'd rather just place things in folders how I already have them sorted on my PC and go.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, whose fault is it for not filling those things out? :)
 
D

Deg

Banned
Matlock said:
there are mini-CD players and mini-CD-R's. Of which, the mini-CD-R's still store a couple of hours worth of music.
Click to expand...

Can you link me to some good ones because i cant find any. I have mini cd disks.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Dragona,

I suggest the Hi-MD recorder: the NetMD line has very long battery life ( 50 hours with 1 AA battery: I hjave the one with AA batteries and not the rechargable pack ;) ), does not skip and is very sturdy.

ATRAC3+ as a codec can compress better than ATRAC3 ( smaller files at the same quality as ATRAC3 ), but with the Hi-MD unit you can also store files in uncompressed format ( linear PCM ).

Compact, durable, cute and reasonably priced... what more can you ask from a Hi-MD player :) ?
 
D

Dragona Akehi

Retired
Matlock: I don't want a MP3CD player, simply because CD-R scratch, while the HDD and MD do not. Also, the large CD players are too big, and the mini 8CM ones don't carry enough for my liking. (I'd prefer to have most if not all of my library in one go.)

And somehow I'm not surprised that Pana wants me to buy a Sony product.

I am leaning towards the Hi-MD although SonicStage and OpenMG left a very bad taste in my mouth. (Though I know there's a method of burning directly using Nero to the regular NetMD.)
 
P

pops619

Member
Kurashima said:
I have a Karma and I love it. I have a warantee on it, and if it ever starts repeatedly breaking down (though I've had it for several months with absolutely no problems), I'd consider replacing it with a Hi-MD player. On Hi-MD, you can get 34 hours on hi-lp mode (which is supposed to be similar to 128 kb MP3), which would give me a good amount of room with two or three discs (and I have some normal mini discs lying around from when I used to have an MD player) without cluttering the interface with hundreds of different artists like my Karma is right now. MD players are supposed to be very durable and have very high battery life. Keep in mind that I don't think you can buy additional Hi-MD discs yet, so you'll only have the one that it comes with.

You might want to check out the Karma. About the only bad thing I've heard about it is that some units seem to have hard-drive problems (so getting a warantee would be a good idea). It can play OGG files as well, which sounds useful to you. The sound quality is very, very good, the battery life is quite high, it supports a lot of music formats, and the interface is nice. It's fairly inexpensive as well. You can get the 20 gig for less than the price of a 15 gig iPod.

A question about the Hi-MDs: Do you have to go to the menu to set playback to random or can you do it at the touch of a button? One thing that annoys me about the Karma is having to go through several nested menus to change the mode to random, which I do quite often.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this post. I guess in this case it isn't relevant if the Karma isn't available to you, but if anyone just wants a good portable music player, the Karma is as good a choice as any. It irks me that people so often just buy an iPod without comparing it to other devices.
 
L

Littleberu

Banned
What a like about the Ipod is that it's more than just a player, it's a complete music archive.

You can select music by type, by group, by album, etc, or just randomize, play your most played song, etc. It's just amazing. I don't think you can do that with a MD. It just take all your albums in your pocket, all in order, and ready to go. With 10 gig, you could be able to put more than 90 albums in your pocket. It's really amazing.
 
J

joaomgcd

Member
Littleberu said:
What a like about the Ipod is that it's more than just a player, it's a complete music archive.

You can select music by type, by group, by album, etc, or just randomize, play your most played song, etc. It's just amazing. I don't think you can do that with a MD. It just take all your albums in your pocket, all in order, and ready to go. With 10 gig, you could be able to put more than 90 albums in your pocket. It's really amazing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the cool thing about portable hard-drive players. You get to listen to everything you own, whenever you want. That is a BIG plus for me. No more "Oh no, I forgot that album at home. Just when I really wanted to listen to it" It's great to just have everything you want right there, never have to change a CD or MD, and have it all organized by artist, album, etc...
 
C

Christoff Yurievich

Member
Deg said:
Can you link me to some good ones because i cant find any. I have mini cd disks.
Click to expand...

well here's the bad thing: the drive spins up and down for each song, so battery life is almost nonexistent. I can run my player for about 2 days on one battery. The other thing is the size of the discs. I thought 210 MB would be enough but it isn't: You have to encode at 128 to get any appreciable storage out of it. It's nice, but I'm looking to upgrade already.

The Hi-MD is looking like my choice, but I'm waiting to see the new models.

BTW, the Hi-MD player can reformat your old MD's into a higher-capacity effectively doubling their size.

but, having everyting with me is a good thing too. if I didn't have about 100 MD's laying around I'd look for the mp3/HDD units
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Dragona Akehi said:
Matlock: I don't want a MP3CD player, simply because CD-R scratch, while the HDD and MD do not. Also, the large CD players are too big, and the mini 8CM ones don't carry enough for my liking. (I'd prefer to have most if not all of my library in one go.)

And somehow I'm not surprised that Pana wants me to buy a Sony product.
Click to expand...

You do not believe that I am really liking my NetMD because it is a good product, do you ?

I really am :(.

Sigh... she won't believe me... women... :(.

I am leaning towards the Hi-MD although SonicStage and OpenMG left a very bad taste in my mouth. (Though I know there's a method of burning directly using Nero to the regular NetMD.)
Click to expand...

SonicStage 2.0 is much better than the previous version of SonicStage you used before ( never tried RealPlayer One before to transfer files to your NetMD player ? ).
 
M

Mustang

Banned
Toshiba has confirmed that it is about to ship a 60 GB hard drive and confirms Apple is a buyer, much to the dislike of Apple.

That just about preannounces a new iPod from Apple.
 
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