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[Panajev2001a]

It is a game changer. See the comment your responding to.

Without it, your fan base may not mind switching consoles. Simply put, it builds brand loyalty.

A bean counter may reply that, until digital libraries became a big and widespread thing on consoles too, that BC did not move the needle commercially: customers did not mind lack of BC on PS4 and they rewarded Sony massively when they dropped PS3 BC features to lower the console’s price (and PS3 had BC support of a lot more PS1 and PS2 titles than Xbox One does with OG Xbox and Xbox 360 titles)...

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

If the BC is as half assed as other things sony has tried the recent years then good luck lol
I expect only a selection of PS4 games will work and not every single game

 

[cireza]

I expect only a selection of PS4 games will work and not every single game

I am pretty sure that this is what will happen. They will want to control what gets released, and what doesn't.

If it is a full backward compat, that actually works well, it will be pretty huge.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I am pretty sure that this is what will happen. They will want to control what gets released, and what doesn't.

If it is a full backward compat, that actually works well, it will be pretty huge.

I expect a quite wide variety of titles with enhancements being possibly rolled over time, focusing on accurate BC first.

The indications are that it may work similarly to how Xbox One does BC though (this patent is quite recent and references such as emulating a previous generation branch predictor on the new one seem to clearly exclude this being a PS4 Pro BC patent as the CPU architecture is the exact same):

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-..."&OS="Sony+Interactive"&RS="Sony+Interactive" —> cloud based on demand emulators translating legacy code into the new platform code...

“According to aspects of the present disclosure, an emulator may be one of a plurality of virtual machines on a cloud based server. The emulator may be created by the server in response to demand for a given emulated application. Once the emulator has been generated by the server, the emulator may access an application that is to be emulated. The emulator may then begin translating the code of the application. The translated code may be stored in a cache. When a client device platform selects the application that has been emulated by the emulator, the emulator may deliver the translated application data to the client device platform over the network”

As the patents states, the cloud system would provide a profile to start spinning up a new VM to translate code for a game you are likely to play next too... does not sound like streaming video only though.

 

[MilkyJoe]

2017

Sony Still Does Not Understand Why People Want To Play Classic PlayStation Games

In a new interview, Sony executive Jim Ryan thinks that most people wouldn’t use backwards compatibility on the PS4 even if it were offered. Moreover, he doesn’t understand why they would want to play classic PlayStation games in the first place.

www.forbes.com

 

[CyberPanda]

2017

Sony Still Does Not Understand Why People Want To Play Classic PlayStation Games

In a new interview, Sony executive Jim Ryan thinks that most people wouldn’t use backwards compatibility on the PS4 even if it were offered. Moreover, he doesn’t understand why they would want to play classic PlayStation games in the first place.

www.forbes.com

What a complete 360. lol

 

[Pallas]

Why are some people acting as if Microsoft invented BC?

No one is, it’s just weird to see Sony place importance on BC again after Jim Ryan made that comment about BC two years ago, I’m glad they are pro-BC again, but people aren’t going to ignore how they went about BC this generation.

 

[llien]

"...and streaming..."

 

[Panajev2001a]

No one is, it’s just weird to see Sony place importance on BC again after Jim Ryan made that comment about BC two years ago, I’m glad they are pro-BC again, but people aren’t going to ignore how they went about BC this generation.

Possibly, but in the grand scheme of things it was a consumer supported explainable minor blip in the radar considering BC support over the last 20 years or so of PS.

 

[Panajev2001a]

2017

Sony Still Does Not Understand Why People Want To Play Classic PlayStation Games

In a new interview, Sony executive Jim Ryan thinks that most people wouldn’t use backwards compatibility on the PS4 even if it were offered. Moreover, he doesn’t understand why they would want to play classic PlayStation games in the first place.

www.forbes.com

I guess they shook some sense into him before promoting him lol. To be fair consumers choice did not change much because of this and BC is not what is selling Xbox One S and X models IMHO. I am glad to have it there and it is something I do want, like UHD Blu-Ray, but consumers at large are not really pushing for it.

Digital libraries changed the grand scheme of things though... hence, since they do not even have major HW obstacles, it was a given to have PS4 BC.

 

[nowhat]

No one is, it’s just weird to see Sony place importance on BC again after Jim Ryan made that comment about BC two years ago, I’m glad they are pro-BC again, but people aren’t going to ignore how they went about BC this generation.

Regarding BC to PS3, there are very valid technical reasons why they were dismissive about it (i.e. it was impossible to implement without dedicated hardware).

 

[vkbest]

Why are some people acting as if Microsoft invented BC?

Because aggressive marketing from Microsoft.

People forget they had BC on PS2, PS3, PSP, Vita and never used.

 

[JSoup]

Just let me play my god damn ps1 classics i bought on ps3 please

That'll be $10 more per, please.
Welcome to the digital utopia.

 

[FranXico]

No one is, it’s just weird to see Sony place importance on BC again after Jim Ryan made that comment about BC two years ago, I’m glad they are pro-BC again, but people aren’t going to ignore how they went about BC this generation.

This is just like the controller vibration all over again. Back then, they couldn't use it due to legal issues. So Phil gave out transparently obvious bullshit.
Now, they couldn't get a PS3 emulator running on the PS4, so they ported a few select games instead and there is Jim "think of the children" Ryan giving out bullshit.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I guess they shook some sense into him before promoting him lol. To be fair consumers choice did not change much because of this and BC is not what is selling Xbox One S and X models IMHO. I am glad to have it there and it is something I do want, like UHD Blu-Ray, but consumers at large are not really pushing for it.

Digital libraries changed the grand scheme of things though... hence, since they do not even have major HW obstacles, it was a given to have PS4 BC.

I think previously yes, it was not a big deal, but these days i think it's a great feature, there's a lot of old classics that still hold up today, old games before graphics were the priority.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think previously yes, it was not a big deal, but these days i think it's a great feature, there's a lot of old classics that still hold up today, old games before graphics were the priority.

I kind of agree, but you can blame digital for the raised BC awareness and mobile devices where consumers have been trained to expect their library to carry over for quite a few years now more than about how classic hold or not.... IMHO.

 

[sublimit]

Add both physical/digital PS3/PS2/PS1 BC and then we're talking.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I kind of agree, but you can blame digital for the raised BC awareness and mobile devices where consumers have been trained to expect their library to carry over for quite a few years now more than about how classic hold or not.... IMHO.

I'd "blame" PC, myself

 

[JSoup]

Add both physical/digital PS3/PS2/PS1 BC and then we're talking.

Looking at those patents from a month or three ago, it does seem like they are working out a way to do it.
Now, if they'll do it like that or not, that's another question.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'd "blame" PC, myself

BC on PC had been there for many many years... for me the inflection point, again, was mobile .

 

[MilkyJoe]

BC on PC had been there for many many years... for me the inflection point, again, was mobile .

I don't play mobile games, and I wouldn't class them as generations. I don't even count them as games, tbh.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

What a complete 360. lol

From the article:
"Jim Ryan is Sony’s head of global sales and marketing, so it’s somewhat mystifying to me that he’s making this argument at all."
Marketing/PR classic bullshit answer to dodge the bullet, nothing new. To me, wat really happened, was that Sony actually didn't managed to emulate ps3 on Playstation 4, so the streaming service became the back compab machine,... and ultimately a selling point to PSNow. Me thinks

 

[devilNprada]

Backward compat has NEVER EVER been something I would consider when buying a console

I agree. Times have changed though. Now my library is majority digital, I can't just sell.

In addition we are a two console household. It would be nice to be able to keep and relegate the 5m edition Pro to the extra bedroom as the second console vs replacing two consoles.

 

[nikolino840]

So you wouldn’t use the PS5 if it offered a better experience for those PS4 games? Common sense, would point to wanting the best possible experience and that may actually be a PS5 for those same PS4 games that run at lower than 4K res with sometimes unstable frame rates or locked to 30.

I have 2 ps4 pros too and one would go right on the shelf (Spider Man Edition) in my office where I collect old game systems and I would probably sell the second one. I have all intents to use BC it’s it offering a better experience.

He buy a remastered

 

[Badlucktroll]

I hope we get like a "ps3 classics" section on the PS5's store. With games like Resistance, Killzone 2, and Folklore emulated in native 4k.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

If the BC is as half assed as other things sony has tried the recent years then good luck lol
I expect only a selection of PS4 games will work and not every single game

What hasSony done that has been so half-assed?

Given that PS4 and PS5 both use similar tech there is no reason to believe most games won’t work just fine.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

A bean counter may reply that, until digital libraries became a big and widespread thing on consoles too, that BC did not move the needle commercially: customers did not mind lack of BC on PS4 and they rewarded Sony massively when they dropped PS3 BC features to lower the console’s price (and PS3 had BC support of a lot more PS1 and PS2 titles than Xbox One does with OG Xbox and Xbox 360 titles)...

This is correct and I was one of the big arguers that BC wasn't a big deal at the time of PS4's release. Now, though, the game has completely changed and it is a big deal with digital libraries being such a big deal.

 

[Rayderism]

BC is important to me, streaming is important to them.

Personally, I want no part of streaming, but I would like to be able to eliminate older consoles while still having access to those physical games. PS1 and PS2 in particular. We already know it will have PS4 BC.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I am surprised at the number of people who think BC is not important in an era of digital distribution. Also keeping multiple systems hooked up is annoying and messy. I want to buy Xbox 4 and be able to play everything on it, why would you not want this feature?

Maybe I won’t use the feature that much, but if I want to play Kotor, or gears 2, or Bayonetta; with BC and digital distribution nothing is stopping me.

I have played though Several BC games since it launched on Xbox one and I love the feature.

Few are saying it's not important. Lots are just saying it won't make or break the new consoles. But really, why are we debating this; the PS5 will have full BC with PS4 and prob earlier PS consoles too, this is what Yoshida is saying.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Why are some people acting as if Microsoft invented BC?

Because Sony and Nintendo didn't use it this gen. I just hope this new machine is quiet ffs. That is most likely the only reason I'll get one IF you can use our current controllers if not then I'm in no hurry to play the latest interactive movie experience.

 

[Frank Spencer]

PS3 compatibility please. My old one is dying.

 

[Badlucktroll]

My fear is that Sony doesn't want to move on from the success of the Ps4 when the console generation resets, so they are going to make the Ps5 "too much Ps4" in its soul/DNA. What do you think?

 

[pr0cs]

My Ps3 just died this weekend, pos.
Now I have to decide if I want to try and reflow the goddamn thing or buy a used one.

People who say bc is pointless clearly don't buy very many games

 

[zcaa0g]

Please, that didn't make the ps4 the success it is, nor did it stop ps3 from getting over 80 mil in sales (only ps3 tht had bc was the original phat then it was dropped) . Xbox went hard asf with bc this gen and used it as a marketing tool and it still didn't sway most gamers. Some ppl want it but most don't give a fuck about it. It won't make or break a console, games and price point do.

A lot of people found it understandable that the PS4 didn't have BC because the nightmare that was the Cell processor on the PS3 platform. As far as the XBOX, as far as "most gamers", they did it too late in the game and made fatal mistakes strategy wise when it was announced. I have a PS3, PS4 Pro, XBOX 360, XBOX One X, Nintendo Wii U and Nintendo Switch in the living room and it sure would be nice to consolidate that as much as possible.

Just because BC doesn't or playing older games doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter at all. The only current gen console I can play a Midnight Club on is the XBOX One. The only current gen console I can play a Virtua Fighter on is the XBOX One. The only current gen console I can play a Fight Night on is an XBOX One. Titles like that can matter because we may never see any of those again. The "just use an previous gen console" (which I have 2 of each for more longevity) argument is weak. Those will get harder and harder to come by when it comes to good condition and finding new first party controllers will become all the more difficult.

 

[Kacho]

If BC is limited to PS4 that would be mad disappointing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is just like the controller vibration all over again. Back then, they couldn't use it due to legal issues. So Phil gave out transparently obvious bullshit.
Now, they couldn't get a PS3 emulator running on the PS4, so they ported a few select games instead and there is Jim "think of the children" Ryan giving out bullshit.

Ryan was also speaking about the first Grant Turismo lined up next to the current GT, and made the comment, "who would want to play this" when comparing, and the media ran with that, and people use it as fuel to being anti-BC.

He was more, anti-fugly ass game compared to the new hotness.

 

[Gamernyc78]

A lot of people found it understandable that the PS4 didn't have BC because the nightmare that was the Cell processor on the PS3 platform. As far as the XBOX, as far as "most gamers", they did it too late in the game and made fatal mistakes strategy wise when it was announced. I have a PS3, PS4 Pro, XBOX 360, XBOX One X, Nintendo Wii U and Nintendo Switch in the living room and it sure would be nice to consolidate that as much as possible.

Just because BC doesn't or playing older games doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter at all. The only current gen console I can play a Midnight Club on is the XBOX One. The only current gen console I can play a Virtua Fighter on is the XBOX One. The only current gen console I can play a Fight Night on is an XBOX One. Titles like that can matter because we may never see any of those again. The "just use an previous gen console" (which I have 2 of each for more longevity) argument is weak. Those will get harder and harder to come by when it comes to good condition and finding new first party controllers will become all the more difficult.

Again ppl need to just stop jumping to respond just for the sake of it. I never ever said bc doesn't matter. I said.......

"Some ppl want it but most don't give a fuck about it. It won't make or break a console, games and price point do"

Then I pointed to Sony and ps4 and Microsoft and Xbox one and gave factual examples. Please don't change up my point because your talking to someone who appreciates bc and would never say it doesnt matter, it just isn't a killer feature that makes or breaks a console for most gamers.

 

[888]

Why are some people acting as if Microsoft invented BC?

Everyone knows they didn't invent it. But one could argue they have put the most effort into it and has basically set the standard for Console BC. They could have just got the games running and called it a day but they went a step farther than that. Upgrading they graphics via emulation vs just selling remasters of games.

 

[mejin]

Everyone knows they didn't invent it. But one could argue they have put the most effort into it and has basically set the standard for Console BC. They could have just got the games running and called it a day but they went a step farther than that. Upgrading they graphics via emulation vs just selling remasters of games.

If MS could remaster something they would do it like Halo and Gears. They just can't do more cause they lack ips. It is as simple as that.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Everyone knows they didn't invent it. But one could argue they have put the most effort into it and has basically set the standard for Console BC. They could have just got the games running and called it a day but they went a step farther than that. Upgrading they graphics via emulation vs just selling remasters of games.

Partially yeah... but they also support a relatively limited amount of games and a portion of those get all the nice enhancements (better on Xbox One X sure). PS1 emulated on PS2 allowed users to enable bi-linear filtering and faster loading times... but they did not restrict the compatibility list much.

 

[Gamernyc78]

If MS could remaster something they would do it like Halo and Gears. They just can't do more cause they lack ips. It is as simple as that.

Seriously their reliance on pushing bc and other moves they made were reactionary and because they faltered in other gaming aspects. It's like them removing kinect lol they wanted to keep it, even lied about not being able to remove it but had to because they were getting slaughtered in sales.

I give them props for how they handled bc but not because they had bc as others have had it as well and it is no precedence.

If MS could remaster something they would do it like Halo and Gears. They just can't do more cause they lack ips. It is as simple as that.

 

[CJY]

I really can't for the life of me figure out why Sony won't just support PS1 + PS2 BC...

How is it possible they can't see the value in that for their user base and in building further loyalty amongst their most ardent fans.

It's positively baffling. They have a massive opportunity to lock people in for generations to come and they just won't take it. It really shouldn't just always be about how much money they can make.

 

[888]

Partially yeah... but they also support a relatively limited amount of games and a portion of those get all the nice enhancements (better on Xbox One X sure). PS1 emulated on PS2 allowed users to enable bi-linear filtering and faster loading times... but they did not restrict the compatibility list much.

The architecture difference between the XbX, X360 and XBX1 is what causes them to only support a small amount having to use software emulation. But what they do support has a lot of extras. Whereas the PS2 wasn't using emulation but actually had the hardware to be able to run the PS1 games natively.

I am hoping both new consoles aren't limited to software emulation only.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I really can't for the life of me figure out why Sony won't just support PS1 + PS2 BC...

How is it possible they can't see the value in that for their user base and in building further loyalty amongst their most ardent fans.

It's positively baffling. They have a massive opportunity to lock people in for generations to come and they just won't take it. It really shouldn't just always be about how much money they can make.

I am going to guess it comes down to a licensing nightmare. Games were licensed differently back then, and are not as open ended on that front as they are now. Not to mention a lot are defunct publishers/developers that also makes it hell.

They focused on building new games and it was successful for them. The cost and return probably just isn't there. You are talking games from the mid 90's and early 2000's. Now wether any of this is worked out and we will see them in the future is anyone's guess.

 

[mckmas8808]

I like this Sony.

 

[joe_zazen]

first actual, outta Sony mouth confirmation of fall 2020 launch. Boo, was hoping for spring.

Also, ignoring ‘content is king’ is concerning. It looks like they have lost the plot somewhat. Depending on how many more studios MS adds to their portfolio and how well they are managed, next gen could very well be a reversal of fortune in terms of who has the most must play games.

I think MS has more studios now and a higher headcount of actual developers working on games. It is a big failure that sony is the most profitable game company and they haven't plowed some of that money into acquisitions and new hires in order to maintain leadership in content creation. Instead, pumping up share price through buy backs, focusing on streaming, etc...

Maybe they are counting on Druckmann’s genius making tlou2 so good, they wont need anything else.
.

 

[93xfan]

A bean counter may reply that, until digital libraries became a big and widespread thing on consoles too, that BC did not move the needle commercially: customers did not mind lack of BC on PS4 and they rewarded Sony massively when they dropped PS3 BC features to lower the console’s price (and PS3 had BC support of a lot more PS1 and PS2 titles than Xbox One does with OG Xbox and Xbox 360 titles)...

Wow people didn't like my joke

I'm sorry

Then the bean counter would be an idiot who doesn’t understand what happened in the slightest.

PS4 was noticeably more powerful, and $100 cheaper.

My friends and I decided to not get an Xbox One because of how bad the multiplayer was in Halo 4, our favorite series to play together.

Then along comes the promise of the Master Chief Collection and I start thinking of becoming a multi platform console owner again.

BC was rough at the very beginning, but MS didn’t give up on making 360 games play as good or better on the Xbox One.

Then they fixed the Master Chief Collection, and are continuing support.


This is how I’ve become a huge Xbox fan again. They are building brand loyalty, and I’m expecting next gen sales to be closer due to that.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I'm glad they think so about BC. Carrying forward the PS4s momentum makes sense. I've always waited a while after a new generation was released, but the PS5 could well be a near launch sell since it just carries foward my PS4 games and friends.

I'm wondering if it'll run Pro mode patches, an additional sell point to regular PS4 owners, and if it'll allow further patching beyond what the Pro can do.

 

[Bolivar687]

Sounds like PS4 will be a streaming gateway into PS5.

 

[Väinömäinen]

Streaming mentioned, pre order cancelled!

BC is cool, Especially since I don’t have PS4, but if it slows down the actual new games in any way, it might make me reconsider.