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[spwolf]

That's why it surprised me because all the data I've been reading from the last few pages about Blu-Ray had me to believe that Blu-Ray is stable but its not doing as well as Sony would like. Thank you for the clarification.

thats what I got too... AVS is really good source of information for anyone looking to see how BD sales are doing when it comes to movies:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798272&page=371

there is no reason to not use it.

Honestly, arguing if BD will ever reach DVD market penetration is moot point. It is like saying how LCDs were not relevant because they will never outsell CRTs.

For anyone wondering if BD is relevant, I think proof of its relevancy is there. For what is going to happen in next 5, 10, 15, 30 years, we can only take our crystal balls and rub them to get the answer.

Sales of Blu-ray Disc movies increased 11% in 2011, representing the lone bright spot for studios looking to restart sellthrough at a time of increasing low-margin rental options, according to a new Morgan Stanley note.

Blu-ray movie sales as a percentage of the top 50 titles released increased 660 basis points in the fourth quarter of 2011, compared with the same period in 2010. In other words, higher-margin BD movies represented 27% of the top 50 sellthrough titles in Q4, compared with 25% in Q3, 24% in Q2 and 22% in Q1.

Indeed, Blu-ray Disc sales for the first time reached $2 billion in revenue in 2011 -- ahead of transactional video-on-demand at $1.87 billion, according to DEG: The Digital Entertainment Group.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/bl...lu-ray-net-positive-home-video-industry-26285

 

[charlequin]

It is subscription services like Netflix. Actual VOD rentals, and VOD purchases are growing less than Blu-Ray.

Yeah, that's true, and it'll probably stay true for at least the immediate future.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Not sure how many people are in the same boat as me, but like many I replaced my VCR movie collection with DVDs, but when blurays came out they seemed expensive and I figured that there would end up being another format 7-8 years down the road. In a way there is, as I've ripped my DVD movies to a backup drive.

 

[FLEABttn]

Does anyone think blu-ray will be the standard for the next 30-40 years?

No, not happening. Period.

Blu-ray as a format could have legs maybe (like vinyl records), but there's really no way in hell that it will be the standard for that duration. We already know the direction the market is moving.

 

[Hammer24]

I do not fully understand why everyone is so hung up with BluRay.
Yes it cost Sony a lot of money on r&d, but in the end the format is here to stay and will make them some money over the next ten years at least.
Even if this money is lower than the r&d costs, its still money. The cell development on the other hand has been a disaster. Do you remember how they expected to have cell chips in every electronic device starting from TV´s up to household devices like microwaves and fridges? Today cell is Sonys betamax of this generation, with a very good chance even the next Playstation will not be cell based.

 

[Clear]

The key point about BluRay is that if you want to purchase a hard copy of a piece of HD video media what alternatives do you have?

Not to mention that if you have an interest above simple viewership, the additional features on the better BD discs are pretty damn awesome.

Its always going to have a pull for collectors and enthusiasts in a way that streamed/downloaded content never will. Not to mention a nice collector's edition or a box set is a more personal a gift than an iTunes card or some other service voucher.

 

[pestul]

Its getting less and less likely that there will be a new physical format.

I agree, despite the way some ISPs are now, I believe in 10yrs from now, an uncapped 100+Mbps internet will be pretty commonplace. Streaming and downloading of high bitrate movies/content will be much more prevalent. Blu-Ray will still exist and have a strong following like DVD, but I just can't see a new physical format on the horizon. When it does arrive, it will only have a niche following.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I do not fully understand why everyone is so hung up with BluRay.
Yes it cost Sony a lot of money on r&d, but in the end the format is here to stay and will make them some money over the next ten years at least.
Even if this money is lower than the r&d costs, its still money. The cell development on the other hand has been a disaster. Do you remember how they expected to have cell chips in every electronic device starting from TV´s up to household devices like microwaves and fridges? Today cell is Sonys betamax of this generation, with a very good chance even the next Playstation will not be cell based.

Well, because BR possibly cost Sony this gaming generation. It wasn't needed for gaming and it was probably the most expensive component of the device. They could push the format without the Ps3 and possibly still win that HD war of theirs. I believe the likes of Spielberg and Wal Mart were behind BR anyway. Then there was Sony's own pictures brand and the fact BR had a higher capacity. They had the edge over HD-DVD from the get go. It would take longer, perhaps, although the Ps3 was doing rather bad when HD-DVD threw the towel.

Cell, yeah, its a train wreck from what I gather. Although multicore programming is standard nowadays, I believe Cell still is very different from the rest and an Intel i7 ish architecture could be a better fit for the Ps4. Cell sounded good for computing, but for gaming..? Not to sure about that. It doesn't add up... so Cell compensates for the shitty RSX... why not throw in a stronger GPU paired with something cheaper like Xenon in there? Oh yeah, Cell itself was also supposed to get a foothold everywhere.

Was the Ps3 really nothing more than a Trojan horse for Cell and BR? Kutaragi must've felt bad.

 

[jman2050]

For one to even entertain the notion the BR in the PS3 was a good idea, one has to make the assumption that PS3 adoption rates was the key component to BR establishing itself as the standard format. I don't believe that for a second.

 

[Mung]

For one to even entertain the notion the BR in the PS3 was a good idea, one has to make the assumption that PS3 adoption rates was the key component to BR establishing itself as the standard format. I don't believe that for a second.

In 2006-2007 it certainly turned the tide in the BR vs HD-DVD war. The numbers from that time bear it out.
Im not saying that BR on PS3 was a good idea, but it did have a big impact on the format.

 

[staticneuron]

But when you start to drag in all these umpteenth-level tertiary concerns on the BluRay side, if you're seriously trying to consider the "was bombing the PS3 worth it" question, you have to go out to the same level of nth-removed stuff on that side: factor in the lost profits of another PS2-level product, factor in a PSP that could've been more successful if Sony hadn't yanked attention from it to baby the PS3, factor in the losses of the next generation as they try to rebuild their lost brand strength, etc.

As of now, no. But if it maintains as the go to for disc based media, it depends. If the PS4 has a faster loading BR drive, and so does the competition decide to get in on that then that probably would make it worth it for them. I mean when even the specs of the Wii U include a "proprietary high-density optical discs" that happens to have a 25GB single layer capacity you really have to wonder who came out on top there.

Does anyone think blu-ray will be the standard for the next 30-40 years?

I doubt any future format will.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I mean when even the specs of the Wii U include a "proprietary high-density optical discs" that happens to have a 25GB single layer capacity you really have to wonder who came out on top there.

Uh, Panasonic?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Uh, Panasonic?

Sony whose PDD (introduced in 2003, invented and patented in 2000) is basically the same as Blu-ray.

They own basically all of the IP involved with 25GB single layer optical discs. Sony and Nichia (who own the Blue laser IP) are the big winners from Nintendo going with a Blu-ray alike.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Sony whose PDD (introduced in 2003, invented and patented in 2000) is basically the same as Blu-ray.

They own basically all of the IP involved with 25GB single layer optical discs. Sony and Nichia (who own the Blue laser IP) are the big winners from Nintendo going with a Blu-ray alike.

So Sony will make money from the sales of WiiU?

 

[Curufinwe]

So Sony will make money from the sales of WiiU?

They made money from sales of the 360 because they are part of the DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation.

http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/about/about.html

 

[zomgbbqftw]

So Sony will make money from the sales of WiiU?

Yes.

 

[Pinzer]

Could Sony withhold Blu-Ray from Microsoft's and Nintendo's next consoles? Would that be strategic to do?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Could Sony withhold Blu-Ray from Microsoft's and Nintendo's next consoles? Would that be strategic to do?

It would be stupid, Sony stand to make a lot of money from 150m Blu-ray or Blu-ray alike devices using their IP as that is not only the devices but the discs as well that they will make licence monies from.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Sony whose PDD (introduced in 2003, invented and patented in 2000) is basically the same as Blu-ray.

They own basically all of the IP involved with 25GB single layer optical discs. Sony and Nichia (who own the Blue laser IP) are the big winners from Nintendo going with a Blu-ray alike.

Doubtful. Nintendo's not using the 23GB PTD/PDD, they're most likely using a Blu-ray Disc detivative that's customized just enough to ensure Sony gets basically zero royalties. I doubt it's that difficult either given how much Sony had to water down their royalty take to attract partners in the HD format war. 25GB doesn't inherently indicate Sony's the one collecting here.

Patents for blue laser diodes and related technology are basically split between Nichia and Toyoda Gosai, and the 2000-era patent war between them delayed development of a mainstream consumer level optical format (or two) originally. Other companies like Phillips, Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic and others all have to go through one of those two for application agreements.

Could Sony withhold Blu-Ray from Microsoft's and Nintendo's next consoles? Would that be strategic to do?

No. It's not Sony's format, they don't weild that kind of power over it.

 

[Coppertracks]

Yes.

Actually no. I believe Nintendo has said they will be using their own format as always.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Doubtful. Nintendo's not using the 23GB PTD/PDD, they're most likely using a Blu-ray Disc detivative that's customized just enough to ensure Sony gets basically zero royalties. I doubt it's that difficult either given how much Sony had to water down their royalty take to attract partners in the HD format war. 25GB doesn't inherently indicate Sony's the one collecting here.

Patents for blue laser diodes and related technology are basically split between Nichia and Toyoda Gosai, and the 2000-era patent war between them delayed development of a mainstream consumer level optical format (or two) originally. Other companies like Phillips, Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic and others all have to go through one of those two for application agreements.




No. It's not Sony's format, they don't weild that kind of power over it.

If Nintendo were to try and get away with paying zero royalties Sony will tie them up in court for years. They will not be able to get away with paying zero royalties. Sony (and Pioneer) invented the 25GB disc, you can be certain that they will collect from it, any try by Nintendo to circumvent licence fees will be met with court action.

I don't doubt that the blue laser diodes are from Nichia (in fact I mentioned it), but the discs are from Sony, and they hold most of the patents (along with Pioneer) for the single layer disc structure in 25GB discs.

Sony's IP warchest is huge in this field and I would be extremely surprised if Nintendo were able to get around it. LG weren't.

 

[bill0527]

Could Sony withhold Blu-Ray from Microsoft's and Nintendo's next consoles? Would that be strategic to do?

Sony can't legally with hold it because licensing Blu-Ray is not solely Sony's decision.

Licensing is done by the Blu-ray Disc Association which was started by 9 manufacturer's and now holds a TON of manufacturers as its members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

Sony probably filed Blu-Ray under some type of general use electronics patent where anyone could use it as long as they pay the licensing fee. It works the same way that CDs and DVDs licensing worked.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

If Nintendo were to try and get away with paying zero royalties Sony will tie them up in court for years. They will not be able to get away with paying zero royalties. Sony (and Pioneer) invented the 25GB disc, you can be certain that they will collect from it, any try by Nintendo to circumvent licence fees will be met with court action.

I don't doubt that the blue laser diodes are from Nichia (in fact I mentioned it), but the discs are from Sony, and they hold most of the patents (along with Pioneer) for the single layer disc structure in 25GB discs.

Sony's IP warchest is huge in this field and I would be extremely surprised if Nintendo were able to get around it. LG weren't.

Uh, maybe you're confused but LG accused Sony of infringing on their patents with various Blu-ray devices (PS3 included), not the reverse. Sony went after LG for phone patents, literally nothing to fo with what we're tslking about here, and Sony/LG settled outside the courts anyway.

Nintendo going through Blu-ray Disc co-founder Matsushita is how they'll "get around" Sony. The Blu-ray Group adopted a joint licensing structure early on anyway and now there's even competivive licensing bodies within the BDA. Sony's patents with Blu-ray are largely to do with replication processes and software codecs afaik. If you can bring me this all encompassing 25GB disc patent I'd love to see it though!

 

[jcm]

Could Sony withhold Blu-Ray from Microsoft's and Nintendo's next consoles? Would that be strategic to do?

Part of having patented technology incorporated into a standard is agreeing to license it under reasonable and non-discriminatory terms (RAND). So no, neither Sony nor anyone else in the BR patent pool can withhold BR licensing from another company.

Nintendo going through Blu-ray Disc co-founder Matsushita is how they'll "get around" Sony. The Blu-ray Group adopted a joint licensing structure early on anyway and now there's even competivive licensing bodies within the BDA. Sony's patents with Blu-ray are largely to do with replication processes and software codecs afaik. If you can bring me this all encompassing 25GB disc patent I'd love to see it though!

They're in a patent pool. As far as I know, you can't separately license Panasonic or Sony's BR patents anymore.

 

[Krilekk]

So Sony will make money from the sales of WiiU?

They all make money of each other. Or don't. Nintendo has a couple of patents that Sony and Microsoft use, Microsoft has a couple of patents that Sony and Nintendo use. Money rarely is exchanged, those patents are used to get other players to grant licensing rights, it's pretty much a cold war. Everybody is showing their guns but nobody has any real intentions of using them - unless someone else starts. There are of course other players like Anascape, who have a patent on analog sticks. Everybody pays them.

 

[RobotChant]

who ever provides Nintendo with the tech for the drives and discs will more than likely already have a license with all patent holders. Nintendo may not be paying royalties directly but all patent holders should see a benefit. I don't think Nintendo is too concerned about who gets royalties, so long as it's cost effective to them in the end.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

They're in a patent pool. As far as I know, you can't separately license Panasonic or Sony's BR patents anymore.

There are different licensing groups within the spec. Sony and Panasonic are in the same pool yes, so that's moot, but that's for players/recorders specifically (and including CD/DVD legacy licensing) which obviously won't apply to Wii U.

In any case, I fail to see how Sony's "the big winner" from Nintendo hiring Matsushita for a customized Blu-ray for their next gen NOD format.

 

[StevieP]

I agree, despite the way some ISPs are now, I believe in 10yrs from now, an uncapped 100+Mbps internet will be pretty commonplace. Streaming and downloading of high bitrate movies/content will be much more prevalent. Blu-Ray will still exist and have a strong following like DVD, but I just can't see a new physical format on the horizon. When it does arrive, it will only have a niche following.

This goes against the best interest of all ISPs (in terms of profits) and is very unlikely to happen - especially in North America.

 

[Carlbeego]

Sony just had its credit rating lowered.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/idUSWLA260120120208

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Sony just had its credit rating lowered.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/idUSWLA260120120208

Is this new thread worthy?

 

[Razgreez]

Sony just had its credit rating lowered.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/idUSWLA260120120208

These credit rating institutions are a joke though. Especially after the lehman brothers' saga. Sadly enough the market still moves according to their ratings

 

[Roland Deschain]

Sony just had its credit rating lowered.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/idUSWLA260120120208

Bad news just keeps piling on.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Well, that was sort of expected. It will take a few years at least for Sony to recover, and their TV business is also on a loss making streak - unfortunate though.

 

[Indyana]

Sony just had its credit rating lowered.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/idUSWLA260120120208

What's next for Sony? A curse?

 

[TheOddOne]

Is this new thread worthy?

Yes, but should be done in Off-Topic.

 

[Oblivion]

Uh, maybe you're confused but LG accused Sony of infringing on their patents with various Blu-ray devices (PS3 included), not the reverse. Sony went after LG for phone patents, literally nothing to fo with what we're tslking about here, and Sony/LG settled outside the courts anyway.

Nintendo going through Blu-ray Disc co-founder Matsushita is how they'll "get around" Sony. The Blu-ray Group adopted a joint licensing structure early on anyway and now there's even competivive licensing bodies within the BDA. Sony's patents with Blu-ray are largely to do with replication processes and software codecs afaik. If you can bring me this all encompassing 25GB disc patent I'd love to see it though!

Pretty much, just like how they dealt it with the GC.

Yes, but should be done in Off-Topic.

You're not the boss of me! >