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[DForce]

So as discussed in previous topics back then, Jon Burton from Traveler's Tales has always been right about the streaming aspect of the game and the fact that it doesn't really need a SSD.



Topic reminder, interesting read in my opinion :

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/travelers-tales-founder-says-ratchet-clank-rift-apart-doesnt-need-an-ssd-to-work-and-it-would-be-possible-even-on-ps3.1616653/

Minimum specs will be interesting to see.

This video was stupid. He didn't even touch on the part where the game instantly switches levels because there's no way to stream that part instantly.

The only way to go around this would require a long load time during the sequences or an SSD/direct storage.

There's a reason why it takes minutes to load games during the previous gen versus seconds during this gen.

 

[Captain Toad]

Don't discount Jim Ryan. That guy is capable of anything.

Including saying they have no plans to do day one PC SP releases. And doing exactly what he says.

He knows what he is doing.

1. Release games for $70 to PS5
2. After 6 months to a year, put the games on PS+ Extra or Essential
3. After that, at some point, a third release on PC for $60

These games are all working triple purposes with these staged releases.

The Internet can make fun of Jim Ryan all they want, but the man knows what he's doing and the numbers prove it out.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Cores or threads? If threads I can kind of agree but cores is overkill.

Threads*

 

[mrMUR_96]

Just watched the PC trailer. The game looks the exact same. The only upgrade is the frame rate, which I personally don't give a single shit about.

Was hoping to see some added particle effects, at least. As well as higher fidelity on a whole. Time to see devs take advantage of that expensive ass hardware. Not just porting games as is, unlocking framerate, and calling that taking advantage of hardware.

As it stands, I see zero enticement to wait 2-3 years for these PC ports just to play them at a higher frame rate. Meaningless ports.

It has ray traced shadows which the ps5 didn't. Plus higher than 4k60 possible. It already looked amazing on ps5, so it'll look amazing on PC too.

 

[THE DUCK]

More fire to the PC log, eventually greed will see that these are day and date......once the pc launcher is ready.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not sure anyone recalls but I have said before that we had our regular group of people sitting in Discord and Mike said a few times Sony fucked up putting too much effort into that SSD and in the end wouldn't make any difference compared to the Xbox SSD

They also laughed about Jim Ryan taking over, even toasted themselves, and here we are today.

I still think they did the right thing, since it's a foundation to build upon for their future tech with less dedicated partitions using up space. Something direct storage and quick resume reserves on the X/S (100GB or so).

Especially since Sony and MS are neck and neck in face-offs despite the TF and APU size differences, which is costing MS much more in the end per unit.

 

[Gobjuduck]

You mean the fixed-spec console that released 3 and a half years ago compared to the always increasing PC requirements that cost hundreds more? Lying bastards.

It can run better on PC hardware that’s 5 years old. Don’t downplay Sonys bs with more bs chump.

 

[rofif]

A 4070 is perfectly fine as well. 70-80% faster than a PS5 in non RT, over 100% in RT, and DLSS 3. It's a significant step up.

4070 is just a 3080 with more vram so very good card.

 

[feynoob]

Including saying they have no plans to do day one PC SP releases. And doing exactly what he says.

He knows what he is doing.

1. Release games for $70 to PS5
2. After 6 months to a year, put the games on PS+ Extra or Essential
3. After that, at some point, a third release on PC for $60

These games are all working triple purposes with these staged releases.

The Internet can make fun of Jim Ryan all they want, but the man knows what he's doing and the numbers prove it out.

Brother, you are underestimating a man who is after money.
Live service games is your best example of what is to come for the future.

 

[rofif]

You’re the 30fps is great guy, and you’re claiming a 4080 is minimum to make it worthwhile??

yes. I don't consider 1440p60fps to 4k100fps worth enough to go to a pc.
there needs to be something more because you only get a bit more res and a lot more fps + issues. That's not enough for me.
If You jump - jump far and at least make it a big difference

 

[Mr Moose]

You mean the fixed-spec console that released 3 and a half years ago compared to the always increasing PC requirements that cost hundreds more? Lying bastards.

 

[Captain Toad]

Brother, you are underestimating a man who is after money.

Yes, I know what a CEO is. If he wasn't after money, he'd be pretty shitty at his job.

 

[Zannegan]

I may be in the minority, but I wish they'd do Spiderman in this style too. Hyper-realism, as good as it looks now, tends to tarnish with age, but Rachet will still look great two decades from now. Plus, an exaggerated, comic book style fits the property.

As for the move to PC, good. Everyone should either be putting their games on Steam (delayed) or on their own launchers (day one, with crossbuy... fat chance). I just wish Nintendo would follow suit.

 

[FrankWza]

It can run better on PC hardware that’s 5 years old. Don’t downplay Sonys bs with more bs chump.

Still cost hundreds more

that cost hundreds more?

Played this 2 years ago. You'll spend more, wait more and complain way more. This hobby supposed to be fun. Whos the chump?

 

[Midn1ght]

Including saying they have no plans to do day one PC SP releases. And doing exactly what he says.

He knows what he is doing.

1. Release games for $70 to PS5
2. After 6 months to a year, put the games on PS+ Extra or Essential
3. After that, at some point, a third release on PC for $60

These games are all working triple purposes with these staged releases.

The Internet can make fun of Jim Ryan all they want, but the man knows what he's doing and the numbers prove it out.

TLOU PS3 - June 14, 2013
TLOU PS4 - July 29, 2014
TLOU PS5 - September 2, 2022
TLOU HBO - January 15, 2023
TLOU PC - March 28, 2023

 

[Kokoloko85]

Just finished on PS5 last week, good game, nothing to write home about it

Visuals: 10/10 - Just fantastic
Gampley 8/10 - so much miss oportunity with Rivet, Rivet and Clank sharing the same gameplay was a dumb idea.
Story 7/10 - dumb kid plot

I enjoyed
Visuals: 10/10 - Just fantastic. Yep
Gampley 8/10 - so much miss oportunity. Yep. Improved over the last game no X Factor in gameplay. A gamechanger.
Story 8/10 - Yes kinda simple plot but voice acting and dialogue was pretty good compared to alot of games.

 

[near]

Including saying they have no plans to do day one PC SP releases. And doing exactly what he says.

He knows what he is doing.

1. Release games for $70 to PS5
2. After 6 months to a year, put the games on PS+ Extra or Essential
3. After that, at some point, a third release on PC for $60

These games are all working triple purposes with these staged releases.

The Internet can make fun of Jim Ryan all they want, but the man knows what he's doing and the numbers prove it out.

Sony have had this tactic for years when it comes to reselling the same product. All the remasters and PS3 ports to PS4 because they decided to remove BC. PS3 digital library made redundant, then upsell you on PS Now so you can access a limited selection of games you my already own via stream. Remastered The Last of Us, Remade The Last of Us, ported The Last of Us to PC at $60, so there isn't a complete uproar. Wait for the inevitable Horizon Zero Dawn, remaster/remake, then PC port.

 

[CuNi]

The PS5 and Xbox Series have been out for over two years and in that time NVME PCIe 4.0 has become near mainstream and NVME PCIe 5.0 has been released, and both have fallen in price, as well as DirectStorage being released on PC. People need to stop being butthurt over a quote from years ago acting as if tech doesn't improve fast.

I'd agree with you if you'd need a PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD, but I wouldn't be surprised if that game, with somewhat longer loading times, will be playable on a generic SATA SSD.
The big majority of gamers will most likely not have a NVMe installed or only use it as an OS-Drive and install games on either an HDD or the usual SATA-3 SSD like the Samsung 870 etc.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Whatever. I’ll just get a PC next Gen. $550 on the ps5, $550 for my series X? Yeah I’ll just invest ~$1100 on a beast pc and get the next Nintendo console.

And this is why porting to PC is a bad decision.
They will lose customers, who will now spend money on Steam instead of PSN and Retail. Both 3rd party titles and 1st Party titles, PS will lose money. Same as if I move to Steam. Ive spend thousands since the PS3

 

[near]

And this is why porting to PC is a bad decision.
They will lose customers, who will now spend money on Steam instead of PSN and Retail. Both 3rd party titles and 1st Party titles, PS will lose money. Same as if I move to Steam. Ive spend thousands since the PS3

Different markets, it's the minority hardcore community who talk like that.

 

[Topher]

Not sure anyone recalls but I have said before that we had our regular group of people sitting in Discord and Mike said a few times Sony fucked up putting too much effort into that SSD and in the end wouldn't make any difference compared to the Xbox SSD

They definitely oversold it. That much is certain. And yeah, I bought into it.

Sony said the PlayStation 2 would replace everyone’s personal computers, which was the main reason Microsoft invested in gaming.

Sony said the ps3’s cell processor would revolutionize gaming, and was basically a nasa computer on steroids.

Sony said ps4 would run games at 4k, but almost never natively ran games in 4k the whole generation, even with the pro.

Sony said the ps5 ssd was so special that some games wouldn’t be possible if it wasn’t for the amazing tech.

Sony will always market some stupid feature as some amazing exclusive innovation. Xbox tried this with the cloud, but people called that out so fast.

I mean….we are getting all that nonsense from both sides still. Xbox teraflops, mesh shaders, SFS and other secret sauces.

These consoles are proving to be more alike than similar so might as well call it out both ways……if you are able.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

They also laughed about Jim Ryan taking over, even toasted themselves, and here we are today.

I still think they did the right thing, since it's a foundation to build upon for their future tech with less dedicated partitions using up space. Something direct storage and quick resume reserves on the X/S (100GB or so).

Especially since Sony and MS are neck and neck in face-offs despite the TF and APU size differences, which is costing MS much more in the end per unit.

After that last "showcase" I am not so sure they weren't right after all

 

[Kokoloko85]

Different markets, it's the minority hardcore community who talk like that.

PS3 showed PS has a decent amount of hardcore fans who spend alot even if things are going wrong.
The future will tell anyway.
Either double dippers and decent sales from PC ports will bring good profits that outweigh migrators.
Or a certain percent of hardcore PS fans 5%-20% lets say will move to Steam like above and myself, taking with them 3rd party and 1st party sales from PS.

 

[OverHeat]

Bought do your part PC GAF

 

[BennyBlanco]

And this is why porting to PC is a bad decision.
They will lose customers, who will now spend money on Steam instead of PSN and Retail. Both 3rd party titles and 1st Party titles, PS will lose money. Same as if I move to Steam. Ive spend thousands since the PS3

Yeah look how bad these ports are hurting their console sales. PS5 is a flop!

Nobody with a good enough PC to run these modern games well is buying 3rd party games on consoles. The only downside is the hurt feelings of brand warriors and their lists.

 

[hemo memo]

Great game. Enjoyed a lot. Enjoy PC gamers.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony’s SSD marketing going to be highly scrutinized.

Yep. Even though the marketing never mentioned anything about PC or the like. It was always marketed as advantages over their last console and changing things up in that I/O scene as more and more engines shift heavily into asset streaming reliant. All while keeping costs down in the SOC size.

But oh you know the war gravy never stops producing.

After that last "showcase" I am not so sure they weren't right after all

Touché.

They're not any different tho with types of games, output focus. So did they backhand themselves?

Their legacy single player games are still coming, let's not get too doom & gloom.

 

[Black_Stride]

SATA SSD

 

[Snake29]

Can't wait to run this on my PCIe 3.0 SSD

Fun fact, it’s possible. Insomniac always said that R&C was developed when specs weren’t finalised. R&C never utilised the complete subsystem.

Sony choose to not support SSD’s below gen4, because their internal is pci-gen4. Matching the same speed or better gives them less headache if future games will utilise more from it. Otherwise people would place it slow ass budget drives and give Sony shit because their SSD gives the system issues.

 

[Topher]

Yep. Even though the marketing never mentioned anything about PC or the like. It was always marketed as advantages over their last console and changing things up in that I/O scene as more and more engines shift heavily into asset streaming reliant. All while keeping costs down in the SOC size.

But oh you know the war gravy never stops producing.


Touché.

They're not any different tho with types of games, output focus. So did they backhand themselves?

Their legacy single player games are still coming, let's not get too doom & gloom.

I seem to recall Insomniac devs making some claims about R&C not being possible without the IO module. We will see. There are two ways to look at it though. 1. What are the PC requirements? 2. How does the game perform with lower spec storage? If it will run on HDD, will there be loading screens? We can’t assume the game on PC will match PS5 in loading speeds.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I seem to recall Insomniac devs making some claims about R&C not being possible without the IO module. We will see. There are two ways to look at it though. 1. What are the PC requirements? 2. How does the game perform with lower spec storage? If it will run on HDD, will there be loading screens? We can’t assume the game on PC will match PS5 in loading speeds.

When comparing it to the PS4, yes. This is what they said, and devs in the PR were always referring to the console before it, hence no cross/gen.

This is a game that wouldn’t be possible without the power of PlayStation 5. We’re introducing more vibrant worlds than ever before, the speed of the SSD allows us to leap across the galaxy nearly instantly, and special effects like ray-tracing shows off the capabilities of the new console.

I have never seen any of the devs say it was not possible on PC. Insomniac even said they didn't fully saturate the I/O for this game either.

But that stock 5400rpm PS4 drive can be swapped for an even slower one (transfer speed), is why they had to hard cap the first Spider-Man at 16MB/s second, much lower than the factory spec. They spoke about that at the following GDC. Also mentioning that the graphics had to be scaled back to less than what they could have done due to that caveat.

 

[Rentahamster]

I own a PS5 but still haven't played R&C. I'm curious to see how the PC version will be.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Including saying they have no plans to do day one PC SP releases. And doing exactly what he says.

He knows what he is doing.

1. Release games for $70 to PS5
2. After 6 months to a year, put the games on PS+ Extra or Essential
3. After that, at some point, a third release on PC for $60

These games are all working triple purposes with these staged releases.

The Internet can make fun of Jim Ryan all they want, but the man knows what he's doing and the numbers prove it out.

I think the problem could arise though wherein the window or should say, staggered timing, between those three things you mention becomes too short. Because if 3 is too soon after 2, then those who'd jump in at 2 may wait for 3 instead. And similar for those who would normally go for 1 if 2 or 3 are too far out, but the window between 1 and 2 shrinks to where you're better off just waiting for 2.

It can become a kind of self-defeating model if not managed correctly. Among what portion of the fanbase though is the bigger question; it could be Sony have already accounted for this happening in their projections hence Jim Ryan coming out saying they look to sell "at least 108 million" consoles this generation, which is almost 10 million below what PS4 managed. Although that could be a statement influenced by other factors, too.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I’m praying that it runs like ass so that I can feel better about my PS5

 

[Skifi28]

I’m praying that it runs like ass so that I can feel better about my PS5

Seeing the state of most recent PC ports, it's quite likely even if you don't do much praying.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Seeing the state of most recent PC ports, it's quite likely even if you don't do much praying.

Nixxes does give this a glimmer of positivity.

 

[Captain Toad]

I think the problem could arise though wherein the window or should say, staggered timing, between those three things you mention becomes too short. Because if 3 is too soon after 2, then those who'd jump in at 2 may wait for 3 instead

These are mostly seperate audiences. Like, who is going to not play the game on PS+ on their PS5, because they want to wait a few months to pay full price on Steam?

 

[//DEVIL//]

Good thing I sold my ps5 for the 10th time...

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

These are mostly seperate audiences. Like, who is going to not play the game on PS+ on their PS5, because they want to wait a few months to pay full price on Steam?

I mean more in the sense that someone who would have bought the game on console but decides they can wait to play it in PS+ instead because they can wait a year or so for it to get in the service. I agree that same person is likely not going to also pass playing it in PS+ just to buy it on Steam even after that.

But it does also mean Sony have to be mindful how soon they put these games into their own service, IMO. Though again, they already know this and factor that a year or so between B2P release and putting it in PS+ works out money-wise. Particularly so in their case since we know now that 1P games won't stay in the service the whole time i.e Spiderman.

 

[spons]

So they're effectively selling a game in pre-order when they haven't even announced the system requirements yet? Insane.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hopefully it's a good port..After that mess of last of us.

 

[FrankWza]

When comparing it to the PS4, yes. This is what they said, and devs in the PR were always referring to the console before it, hence no cross/gen.


I have never seen any of the devs say it was not possible on PC. Insomniac even said they didn't fully saturate the I/O for this game either.

But that 5400rpm drive that can be swapped for an even slower one, is why they had to hard cap the first Spider-Man at 16GB/s second, much lower than the factory spec. They spoke about that at the following GDC.

We're still getting "we believe in generations" quotes with no context. What do you expect? The day one on PC crowd needs something to complain about. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a thread with a title like:

Will R&C: Rift Apart PC need a SSD to run? PLACE YOUR BETS​

 

[Bruno_Arrais85]

amazing game

 

[DeepEnigma]

So they're effectively selling a game in pre-order when they haven't even announced the system requirements yet? Insane.

There are a ton of games on steam that don't have sys req and preorders. Games that are months or even a year out.

 

[skneogaf]

This will look very nice on my 4090

 

[Pop]

Several year old platformer which is not exactly a genre PC gamers dig too much.
Add zero marketing on top and I don`t see a scenario where this succeeds.

This is just extra cash homie

 

[willothedog]

You mean the fixed-spec console that released 3 and a half years ago compared to the always increasing PC requirements that cost hundreds more? Lying bastards.

November 2020 -> May 2023 = 3.5 years

 

[Skifi28]

November 2020 -> May 2023 = 3.5 years

 

[TGO]

I can understand frustrations, but these are being ported by a port/assist studio they purchased.

Nothing to do with their legacy studios.

And that's what's even more annoying.
People what a Bloodborne Remaster and by Sony's current strategy the only way they'll get it is if they first and foremost want to port it to PC.
no one is saying they're taking away the legacy studios to do that.
But can you name have many games Sony has announced and released on PC Since September 2021?

 

[DeepEnigma]

And that's what's even more annoying.
People what a Bloodborne Remaster and by Sony's current strategy the only way they'll get it is if they first and foremost want to port it to PC.
no one is saying they're taking away the legacy studios to do that.
But can you name have many games Sony has announced and released on PC Since September 2021?

I mean, if porting Bloodborne to the PC get's us a remaster or current gen upgrade, then I'm all for that shit. Ten fold!