The Hermit
Member
no shit, its like his thesis or something.
Not that I am complaining though, and the best part is that mama analyse my fav games as well ( Metroid Prime and Soul reaver)
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread)
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
- Start date
no shit, its like his thesis or something.
Not that I am complaining though, and the best part is that mama analyse my fav games as well ( Metroid Prime and Soul reaver)
thechristoph
Sir!
Breaking the horizontal scroll makes it hard to read such a huge and informative post.
I played a good bit of Soul Reaver, but it didn't grab me like it grabbed (apparently) everybody else. I could only slide so many boxes around.
I played a good bit of Soul Reaver, but it didn't grab me like it grabbed (apparently) everybody else. I could only slide so many boxes around.
Gamers werent used to such large, interesting dynamically streaming worlds back in the psone days. Shifting between realities was fun all by itself.
RealDeadOne
Member
This post made me go buy both Soul Reaver games on GOG. Amazing work.
Necronomikon
Member
Damn it Mama Robotnik! Sometimes I think that you are/were somehow part of Crystal Dynamics's Soul Reaver team! You get so much info out about a game that's 12 years old!
...
BUT THAT'S AWESOME!
Man, I loved so much Soul Reaver, and I remembered watching those other Soul Reavers that I wasn't able to use, and seeing paths or hints of the world map being even bigger... and thought that maybe they'll all be seen in the sequel but wasn't like that!
It's great to see how ambitious this game was, and the grand scale it had in mind, and all the different mechanics that they were thinking (like the possession one).
But still, Soul Reaver was a fairly long game (for what I remember), would it have benefit of being a longer game? Would've bactracking ruin the game? Or maybe the excessive abilities would've been lost opportunities or barely used or even bad implemented?
Everything I read was awesome though, and the plans they had were amazing! This game would've been the Baldurs Gate 2 of the Third Persons (time and story wise).
Right now, I'm playing Darksiders II and many times makes me wish for a new Soul Reaver game, with up to date graphics, awesome art style and unmatched voice acting and story!
Why man... why do I have to suffer every time I read your threads! ='(
...
BUT THAT'S AWESOME!
Man, I loved so much Soul Reaver, and I remembered watching those other Soul Reavers that I wasn't able to use, and seeing paths or hints of the world map being even bigger... and thought that maybe they'll all be seen in the sequel but wasn't like that!
It's great to see how ambitious this game was, and the grand scale it had in mind, and all the different mechanics that they were thinking (like the possession one).
But still, Soul Reaver was a fairly long game (for what I remember), would it have benefit of being a longer game? Would've bactracking ruin the game? Or maybe the excessive abilities would've been lost opportunities or barely used or even bad implemented?
Everything I read was awesome though, and the plans they had were amazing! This game would've been the Baldurs Gate 2 of the Third Persons (time and story wise).
Right now, I'm playing Darksiders II and many times makes me wish for a new Soul Reaver game, with up to date graphics, awesome art style and unmatched voice acting and story!
Why man... why do I have to suffer every time I read your threads! ='(
THANKS A MILLION DUDE!
lifa-cobex
Member
Look through all of that material makes me feel so nostalgic.
I think its another FF7 feeling.
Would LOVE a remake and i'm sure it would fly of the shelves.
However something just wouldn't be right about it.
But hell if I remember correctly, I think they could even continue the series. In one way or another
I think its another FF7 feeling.
Would LOVE a remake and i'm sure it would fly of the shelves.
However something just wouldn't be right about it.
But hell if I remember correctly, I think they could even continue the series. In one way or another
Great work mate, seriously good read. SR is my favourite game on PSX. I have always wanted a sequel to complete the story. As you say it just ends, with the extra stuff you have found it would have been an even better game, which makes me kind of sad. Just everything about this game was great. Puzzles, combat, graphics the complete package.
SR was already quite a long game for the time. Adding the cut Content would have made it epic, though it may have become too long. I mean a 40 hour 3rd person action/adventure game is kind of overwhelming. And there was way too much block pushing. But the world transition puzzles were nothing short of genius, perfect use of a game mechanic, perfect.
You are spot on, it would have taken a miracle to make this happen on PSX. It blew me away they did what they did, the streaming tech was revolutionary on console at the time... I will be buying this on GoG as soon as I'm finished typing this.
Great thread.
SR was already quite a long game for the time. Adding the cut Content would have made it epic, though it may have become too long. I mean a 40 hour 3rd person action/adventure game is kind of overwhelming. And there was way too much block pushing. But the world transition puzzles were nothing short of genius, perfect use of a game mechanic, perfect.
You are spot on, it would have taken a miracle to make this happen on PSX. It blew me away they did what they did, the streaming tech was revolutionary on console at the time... I will be buying this on GoG as soon as I'm finished typing this.
Great thread.
Anyone picking the game up from GOG after reading this. Get the widescreen/60fps mod for it here, assuming you don't mind a stretched HUD and don't want to play in 4:3.
To use a controller, you'll need to download Xpadder or Pinnacle Game Profiler and make or find a profile. There's in-game pad support, but it's borked and I just walk endlessly in circles. So I set the in-game option to keyboard controls, and used Xpadder to make a profile. Works fine.
To use a controller, you'll need to download Xpadder or Pinnacle Game Profiler and make or find a profile. There's in-game pad support, but it's borked and I just walk endlessly in circles. So I set the in-game option to keyboard controls, and used Xpadder to make a profile. Works fine.
Mama Robotnik
Member
A few further thoughts - I'll respond to comments properly in a bit (many many thanks for the nice responses though! - I've fixed the horizontal stretch in the OP):
SPOILERS FOR LATER GAMES
Much of the cut content ended up being re-interpreted in subsequent Legacy of Kain games. In particular, the team found ways to integrate the Chronoplast Visions of Possible Futures (effectively FMV recordings of the cut content inserted as a plot point) as actual events in Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance:
SPOILERS FOR LATER GAMES
Much of the cut content ended up being re-interpreted in subsequent Legacy of Kain games. In particular, the team found ways to integrate the Chronoplast Visions of Possible Futures (effectively FMV recordings of the cut content inserted as a plot point) as actual events in Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance:
lifa-cobex
Member
Epic thread dude.
As much as the cut ending intrigue's me. I am glad the squeals were made while keeping in mind what was originally cut.
That ending does sounds fantastic but a bit too final.
As much as the cut ending intrigue's me. I am glad the squeals were made while keeping in mind what was originally cut.
That ending does sounds fantastic but a bit too final.
Cameron122
Member
You make some of my favorite threads, MamaRobotnik. Gotta play through this series once I clean up my backlog. I'll start with Blood Omen once the Vita is patched to play ps1 classics 
Or do y'all recommend the GOG route?
Or do y'all recommend the GOG route?
AHA-Lambda
Member
God, these threads always make me wanna pick up these games
timetokill
Banned
Insane thread. Well done!
Robot Pants
Member
Well then. Now is the time to make all those things happen. Remake, sequel, whatever. I'm in.
edit: oh it was in the sequels. I didn't play those
edit: oh it was in the sequels. I didn't play those
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Shenmue is definitely up there.
Beyond Good & Evil also had like 6 planets planned, before just settling on one planet & a moon.
Fable 1, enough said. They promised back then what still isn't implemented in any current or future planned games.
RazorbackDB
Member
thank you so much for this, i didn't know any of that stuff
Melchiah
Member
The song of my clan.
Love the information provided in the OP. LoK:SR is one of all-time favorite games, amazing story, atmosphere, design, music, and voice actors, but I must say I hated the platforming, and fighting against respawning enemies in closed spaces, while pushing blocks. I'm still sad Turel and the vampire cult were excluded from the game.
To Far Away Times
Member
Nobody can question the OP's love for this series, that's for sure.
These threads are always a fun read.
These threads are always a fun read.
I've never played Legacy of Kain - I own it on PSN but the way the camera moves, the close zoom level, and the small play area give me horrid motion sickness when playing the game so I've never really played it much.
However, I played the first Soul Reaver on Dreamcast (still have it actually) and really enjoyed it, but never got around to the second game. I might pick up the PC versions to replay the first and play the second. Will they work with a 360 controller on the PC?
However, I played the first Soul Reaver on Dreamcast (still have it actually) and really enjoyed it, but never got around to the second game. I might pick up the PC versions to replay the first and play the second. Will they work with a 360 controller on the PC?
Unfortunatly most of the songs are copies of one another but with slightly different effects to them. Like 5 different versions of the 'citidal' theme, one sounding normal, one sounding more etheral and the other 3 just have slight modifications.
ss_lemonade
Member
Weren't there ways (cheats?) to unlock the different reavers in the game? I remember using the yellow one on the dreamcast, but I also remember it only being a cosmetic change.
Syph Medwes
Member
Indeed. Mama Robotnik you are probably my favourite thread creator.
Well, my first reaction is to say that I think STALKER is the most overly-ambitious game ever, because I've played a lot of its cut content, and holy fuck it is ambitious.
That doesn't stop this thread from being absolutely incredible, though. Will be poring over it in more detail later.
That doesn't stop this thread from being absolutely incredible, though. Will be poring over it in more detail later.
Blood omen 2 takes place after defiance technically. If I remember correctly. I will throw in that Blood omen needs more love in this thread. Its a great top down gothic rpg. You become so godlike by the end too. A lot of the stuff in the later games is far more awesome if you played blood omen too, since the events and characters have huge parts in soul reaver 2 and defiance. Blood omen IMO is really necessary to experience the whole story. Although their was a ton of great ideas for soul reaver I'm glad a lot got cut for multiple reasons. One the length of the game was already quite long, and if all that remained it easily would have out stayed its welcome, particularly if there was a lot of block puzzles in that content. The second of which I much prefer how the story progresses, it gets much better with the sequels. The expansive world with tons of history throughout was amazing when it came out. Actually I remember I rented the game made it part way through and didn't beat it. Then I bought blood omen beat that and then replayed and beat soul reaver.
I was really disappointed with how blood omen 2 turned out. Not just talking about how it was by far the weakest game in the series, but because of what the early game was shaping up to be. I remember reading an early EGM article talking about how blood omen 2 was going to be kain stuck in this giant city in a free roam game, where you had to stick to the shadows and lure people to alley ways to feed on them. An open world vampire game set in the legacy of kain universe? Sign me up!
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
I love these threads and hate them at the same time. On one hand they're extremely interesting, on the other hand it reminds me one of my favorite franchises will never see another game in the series.
It pains me to see the lack of detail this gen that Soul Reaver had. Everything was perfectly laid together - the setting, the story, the characters. Even then they ahd so much cut content, just have to say kudos to CD for all that hard work.
Eagerly awaiting your next thread, op.
Eagerly awaiting your next thread, op.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
DAAAMN Mama. Between your Soul Reaver Lunacy and my MGS obsession we would be great cellmates in a padded room
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
That is a truly fascinating write up Mama. What is the story with the sequel? I never played the second game. Did they just put all the story arcs they had planned on the cutting room floor as well?
They should start with blood omen first.
Mama Robotnik
Member
http://www.gog.com/gamecard/legacy_of_kain_soul_reaver
Well, given that the game is thirteen years old and was designed for a console with 2MB RAM, its obviously not going to look as good as modern games. But (and understand that I am horribly biased), I think it looks pretty impressive given its age:
(From the vanilla PC release)
The music is very impressive, and voice acting and writing are the best in the industry. The exploration is original and uses powers not often seen in the Metroidvania genre - phasing through gates, constricting objects, setting things on fire, etc. There are a lot of unique locations (like a church filled with insect vampires, or a flooded abbey filled with mermen from Hell), and the game has a tremendous imagination to it.
The concerns are if (1) you think the graphics above are good enough, and (2) if you have patience for a couple of block puzzles - there's about a dozen in the game, spaced out in a few locations, that do get a bit repetitive.
The PC version is optimised very well, and looks and plays better than the PSX release at all times. The Dreamcast version is a stunning port by Nixxes Software, with the best texturework of all three versions. The ultimate way to play the game, I imagine, would be to use a Dreamcast to rip a copy of Soul Reaver to the PC, then play it in High Definition using a Dreamcast emulator. A lot of hassle going through all that, I imagine.
That so many sites reported on such a rumour nearly simultaneously, combined with a recent incident on a Crystal Dynamics podcast, makes me optimistic.
The host of the podcast was unexpectedly asked a question regarding the Legacy of Kain, and responded (paraphrased) "I'm not allowed to talk about that!". Seems like a strange response if the franchise was stone cold dead.
Agreed, the cut story direction gave us the incredible Soul Reaver 2 story, which was far truer to Kain's history and intent. Nonetheless, Kain had to die at some point, and going out (as per the intended ending) by being murdered by his own son in a predestination suicide bid before a massive church nukes the planet of all undead life, is a hell of a bombastic way to bow out.
Yeah, the Light Forge (and a second Fire Forge) appear in Soul Reaver 2. The Water Forge and Spirit Forges eventually appear in Defiance (with a third Fire Forge!).
I disagree quite a lot, as I'm sure you can imagine, but your opinion is as valid as mine. Given the originality in Nosgoth - a Citadel cradling the last humans, a church of undead insects, a flooded abbey, a lighthouse filled with blind vampires, etc, I couldn't ever describe the world as drab. The screenshots above also confirm that the world is hardly "empty and grey" all the time. Block puzzles I'll give you though.
You love it.
In the game you can access the Spectral, Material and Fire reavers. The Ariel (yellow) and Kain (black and red) Reavers are accessible via cheat codes - but are only superficial colour changes with none of the enhanced powers.
We'll never know of course - but I blitzed through the original Soul Reaver in a weekend, and felt utterly unfilfilled by the ending (well, until Soul Reaver 2 came out). I would have liked to have explored more - especially the Undercity and Turel's territory - but for the story of the series its best things worked out as they did.
(1) I'm biased, but Soul Reaver 2 is good. Its got the best story in the series, there are more diverse enemies and environments, the puzzles are varied, and it might have my favourite art of the whole series.
(2) The combat is very similar, though Raziel is armed with further melee moves and fatalities. The puzzles are a massive improvement and are imaginative - examples are
restoring hearts to corpses to satisfy statue gods, blinding lazer eye golems, making bridges of darkness and staircases out of dried blood, etc
I must mention though that the payoff in Soul Reaver 2 is that it is more linear and provides less opportunities for exploration. I was so involved with the world and story that I didn't notice, but your opinion may or may not be similar.
Right I'll answer more tomorrow, its getting way too late here.
SketchTheArtist
Member
I was obsessed with Soul Reaver during its first announcement up to its release. Really special game for me. I had known that they over-designed the game and had to cut lots of stuff out. Luckily, most of it was used in the sequels.
Also, SR2 has the best ending ever written. ''I renounce you!'' and ''....we fell right into their trap!'' Brilliantly written and acted!
Also, SR2 has the best ending ever written. ''I renounce you!'' and ''....we fell right into their trap!'' Brilliantly written and acted!
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I came.
PedroLumpy
Member
Once again, thanks for all the information Mama Robotnik. Pretty much lost count of how many threads of yours I've read about this game. Even without all this, what an amazing game it was back then.
(R.I.P. Tony Jay)
(R.I.P. Tony Jay)