Foreign Jackass said:
SP, unique? Come on. Their influences are so evident that every band right now is not ripping them off because they're already ripping off the Pumpkins's own influences. Why rip off copies if you can rip off the original? Pavement has a far more distinguished influence on today's band simply because it sounded like nothing else at the time. Please, I'm a huge Pumpkins fan, but come on, stop using that stupid "indie defense" argument. You're obviously just a fucking Corgan fanboy without any judgment when it comes to the Pumpkins or Corgan. You should stop entering these discussions, you always come off as a fucking fanatic.
Since you don't mind being offensive - if I come off as a fanatic, then you come off as an indie snob. Gee, that doesn't make sense, right? Now you know how it feels.
Everyone is rip off of someone. Don't you people realize this? What made the Pumpkins unique was that they COULD "rip off" countless bands but also remain innovative enough to truly carve something original out of that; it's hard for a band to take on something that was done before, but still tweak it enough to truly make it theirs without sounding like some extremely lame cover band. They took the best elements of their influences and used the best of their (mainly Corgan and Chamberlin's) talents to make it into whatever they wanted. Corgan said it himself (and anyone who disagrees with this statement is clearly in denial), every band is effectively ripping off another band, some just don't want to admit it. On the other hand, some, and to varying degrees, have no problem letting the world know that music
CANNOT progress without realizing where what exactly it is you're trying to do came from in the first place. That's the ONLY DIFFERENCE. That, and the fact that the Pumpkins were able to execute their style in such a fashion that is nearly impossible to emulate, which is why you haven't seen any bands do it. Or, some have, but have done a piss poor job (Abandoned Pools, Thursday just to name two). Corgan and Chamberlin are another Page and Plant, Yorke and Greenwood.
So to call Pavement "more unique" than the Pumpkins (or
[place your favorite band here]) is ridiculous. Yeah, Pavement had a cool idea, but so did a lot of other bands. At the core, Pavement's just another lo-fi indie pop/rock band with some quirky songwriting and guitar noise. Hell, that's not at the core, that's their discography. It's like specific parts of REM, Sonic Youth and similar bands' discographies put in a blender with a dash of Malkmus' abstract thinking. Genius? Perhaps! But so is what the Pumpkins did. And My Bloody Valentine. And Nirvana. And Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam, and Slint, and Suede, Blur, Radiohead, The White Stripes, I could go on forever as those were random innovative bands that I typed.
So I don't buy what makes Pavement "more unique" than anyone else. All of these bands are extremely unique in their own way. I'm curious, by the way. Where are all these extremely popular bands that sound like Pavement, guys? Modest Mouse is the only band I can think of, but I always thought they had the better idea anyway.
Siamese Dream was completely different than anything that came out at the time for what the band was competing with. Everything was really grungy or you had your underground indie stuff from bands like Pavement or SY. I'm not kissing Corgan's ass here, I'm trying to make a point, people. Siamese Dream took elements of classic and 80's rock, and combined it with early 90's rock. It's the record so many 80's rockers always wanted to make, but couldn't because they were too corny. It's the record so many 90's rockers wanted to make, but couldn't because they lacked the confidence and talent. It's the album that so many classic rockers could envision from a production standpoint, but could never do because of limits in how records were produced. Pink Floyd said Siamese Dream restored their faith in rock music - need I say more?
COME ON. Corgan knew exactly what to do to perfectly execute an array of approaches to his music that no other band to this very date has done in the world of rock, alternative rock, and even indie rock. It's ahead of it's time, in terms of songwriting, execution and production.
And quite honestly, there's no need to even compare Pavement and the Pumpkins since everyone thinks I'm such a kissass. They were two completely different bands with
completely different approaches to music. So, to be fair, I'll compare Pavement to other bands I love. Radiohead, Sonic Youth, Pixies and My Bloody Valentine all put Pavement to shame, and I'm shocked that Pavement ranked higher than them (the only exception being Radiohead). If you want to use one of those bands and say that you find their work to be far more innovative and interesting than the Pumpkins discography, I would definitely respect that opinion. But Pavement? Come on, people. There are so many bands (even if you completely exclude the Pumpkins) that deserve to be ranked higher than Pavement on these lists.
