I'd also like to add that if you are able to keep the tower in the center of the map for 3 whole minutes then you really aren't playing poorly. If the enemy really had you on lock the tower would be deep on your side of the map.
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Splatoon |OT3| Feel Good Ink
- Thread starter NotLiquid
- Start date
I'd also like to add that if you are able to keep the tower in the center of the map for 3 whole minutes then you really aren't playing poorly. If the enemy really had you on lock the tower would be deep on your side of the map.
Imo controlling the game for a long period of time is a much more impressive feat that getting the counter low.
It's like Violet's example. For 2 minutes 30 seconds in turf wars your stats are 12-0, but it's the 13th duel that decides the entire game. Go 13-0 and you win the match, go 12-1 and you loose the match. It's completely unfair how the other team can easily negate all the great performances you made just in that final stretch alone. This is how I see TC as well.
Also, why do people hate comeback mechanics so much?
Every game every has systems in place to allow losers opportunities to comeback. It makes the game more interesting and fair. Why do you think the "make it take it" rule is not used in professional basketball?
Every single mode in splatoon has a balance that rewards better teams, but also allows the losing team to not get completely washed out (unless they do truly get outplayed).
Shooting your own ink give you points, area control, slow your enemies, speeds you up, and allows you to hide. Having your own ink out gives you significant positional advantage.
But, the more ink you have, the less ink you can spread, and the more ink the enemy can ink over, meaning you get less specials and the enemy gets more specials. That's the comeback mechanic. The losing team gets pity specials to help them come back. But they're still at positional disadvantage unless they work hard, because none of these specials are overpowered or anything, so the winning team still has the advantage.
If the winning team, who is consistently at the advantage despite comeback mechanics, get outplayed by a big ending push, then that's on them.
Same thing applies to the other modes even if they are more chaotic. The winning team always has the advantage (timewise) in splatzones even with the added time for losing the zone. And the winning team always has the advantage in tower control because the losers have to fight back from either deep in their territory or from neutral, and the further they get into your territory, the more advantage you have.
I find the game to be incredibly well balanced honestly.
Well... if it actually worked that way I'd agree, but it doesn't. You're not going 12-0 and then losing 12-1. You're going 60%-30% and then losing 48%-54%. It's absolutely fair. As much as you may feel like it, you're not playing 13 matches, you're playing one long match.
Every game every has systems in place to allow losers opportunities to comeback. It makes the game more interesting and fair. Why do you think the "make it take it" rule is not used in professional basketball?
Every single mode in splatoon has a balance that rewards better teams, but also allows the losing team to not get completely washed out (unless they do truly get outplayed).
Shooting your own ink give you points, area control, slow your enemies, speeds you up, and allows you to hide. Having your own ink out gives you significant positional advantage.
But, the more ink you have, the less ink you can spread, and the more ink the enemy can ink over, meaning you get less specials and the enemy gets more specials. That's the comeback mechanic. The losing team gets pity specials to help them come back. But they're still at positional disadvantage unless they work hard, because none of these specials are overpowered or anything, so the winning team still has the advantage.
If the winning team, who is consistently at the advantage despite comeback mechanics, get outplayed by a big ending push, then that's on them.
Same thing applies to the other modes even if they are more chaotic. The winning team always has the advantage (timewise) in splatzones even with the added time for losing the zone. And the winning team always has the advantage in tower control because the losers have to fight back from either deep in their territory or from neutral, and the further they get into your territory, the more advantage you have.
I find the game to be incredibly well balanced honestly.
Well... if it actually worked that way I'd agree, but it doesn't. You're not going 12-0 and then losing 12-1. You're going 60%-30% and then losing 48%-54%. It's absolutely fair. As much as you may feel like it, you're not playing 13 matches, you're playing one long match.
Really, Port? I find comebacks on Port to be extremely difficult.
to think of it another way, the challenge is not just in making the progress but in consistently holding on to it. It's not like a grueling challenge to hold your turf for 3 minutes, and even if say at the 1:30 mark they push you out you still have ample time to get back in and swing it back around. just because it's possible to come back doesn't mean it's bad design. I probably saw like at least 10 magic pixel come backs on various evo games today and that doesn't mean they're badly designed.
/marvel 3 random factor excepted
/marvel 3 random factor excepted
I'm guessing you mean local tournies? It seems like the only way for a LAN setup is by using the Splatoon setups at events which use the default loadouts and gear.
It's super weird how the EVO ads were trying to push Splatoon like an eSport but local tournament setups are basically impossible.
Part of me is like "fucking hell oh my god Nintendo if you could SEE the VISIONS in my HEAD WE GONNA BE EVO TOP 8 TEAM SPLATOON" but naw son i don't think ninty is there yet
sniper no sniping
...says the charger...
I was indeed talking about local tournaments but with the August update. Once they're able to set up a 4v4 at a tournament, how are they going to handle gears? Chargers benefit from damage up so much. Even if there were pre made gear, it would be hard to practice with it at home because we won't have those gear available to us. I can see playing at home but some people would abuse lag to win. It's one of my main concerns with tournament.
It's not exactly uncommon in real sports that a team scores early, tries to hold the other team for the rest of the game and screws up at the end. By defending for most of the match you are not doing more work than the opponent. On the contrary, defending is usually easier.
It's an integral feature in many team sports that you can try to win by shutting the other team out and it can blow up in your face. If you are good enough, you don't take the risk and go for a decisive victory.
well it helps I suppose
... I screwed up that match, freaking Port
also getting too many lag kills, probably not staying around for long
Exactly how it is on TC too. Once you're past the first line of defense then it turns into a spawn camp scenario, where the team that is defending has a severe disadvantage in the following duels.
That's why I stress that getting the tower control distance count low is not a skillful feat. Especially so if you have kraken, pop it and stand there, it takes no skill what so ever to get an extra 15-20 points.
The crucial, game deciding part is getting past the first line of defense set up at the choke points leading up to the tower. Once you are through all hell breaks loose. Hence why locking the map down is what matters the most in this game and thus players should be rewarded for accomplishing that. That's why I see TC as a mode not very suited for competitive play, this game was designed for splat zones as its serious mode and turf wars for party, everyone can join in type of play. TC is a fun distraction at best.
Unless the update makes it so you don't need 8 TVs and 8 Wii Us for a single setup I don't think local tournaments will be very feasible. Sounds like a nightmare for tournament organizers.
would be interesting if they made available custom tournie gear that was standardised or something.
That's LAN multiplayer. It's hot stuff. That's what people want to see.
If the defending team is at a disadvantage for most of the game then why do you take issue with them winning in a last second push? Surely they displayed more skill throughout the game with their consistent defense?
You still need the same amount of TVs and Wii Us for LAN don't you?
Either that or an easier way to transfer our gear to other wii u's.
Standard Charger: Classic Squiffer.
Yeah but that's the best way to handle tournaments par none.
Considering how the Wii U can barely handle the local 2-player mode, it will never happen
But the multiple system setup is not uncommon, and it is by far the best way to do it
I guess you could just require competitors to each bring their own Wii Us to tournaments. That would solve the gear issue too.
huh?
The team with a decent lead is what I consider the defending team (i.e. not early back and forth stuff, 40 ish is a good lead), while the others who have to retake the lead are on the offense.
The offensive team doesn't defend traditionally, what happens is the team in the lead starts to take passive positions and just wait for the opponents to come, and you know they will come eventually since the winning condition requires them to, so you just sit back and defend on your side of the map.
You can manage to do that again and again, for 6, 7, and 8 waves, but in that final 9th offensive wave, they actually manage to get through. But you gained no points, no nothing for locking them down in the previous 8 waves; they mean very little.
This is what I have a problem with. In splat zones you are awarded for successfully stopping enemy waves, each time nets you around 20 seconds worth of points. In TC they don't count the number of times you stopped the enemy.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
This game needs regional matchmaking badly. Finding a room without Japanese players is impossible unless you play during the middle of the day, and there are no guarantees that will make a difference. 85% of them have game breaking lag, and this game’s netcode isn’t that great to begin with. It's not as big of a deal for Turf War since you're able to join your friends, but every time I try playing Ranked, I'm paired with 11 Japanese players who all lag and magically avoid my gunfire.
Oh, I guess I misunderstood you then. I thought you meant that the team defending against an early breakout with the tower was at a disadvantage. Honestly though, I've never seen anyone play Tower Defense in the way you're describing. People usually try to keep control of the tower regardless of if they are in the lead or not. Stopping enemy waves can net you points in Tower Control too if you are mobilizing the tower instead of letting it sit still.
PadWarrior
Member
I love this game but yeah the online issues are becoming ridiculous. Delayed spats connection errors unstable connections etc..
And it seems to be getting worst
But splatfests have "proven" that regional matchmaking doesn't solve lag issues and may instead make them worse.
Yeah, both teams are on offense and defense at the same time. As you move the tower to the other teams side, you are on the offense because of how the tower moves, but you have to be more defensive to keep the tower under your control. And of course, the opposite for the other team.
Problem is the speed of the tower is increased on pathways already covered, so getting the tower ahead as the defensive team isn't the ideal strategy, as you are a sitting duck on it. It's better to control the map around the tower and wait for the other team to commit to a duel / embark the tower.
Edit: And why do I keep getting teams with low range weapons on moray towers? Might as well go afk
I thought it went faster when more than one of your teammates were on the tower, but what you say makes more sense. Thanks!
No one can magically avoid gunfire. In this game, if your end shows a hit, you have hit.
I am in Canada also, and while I can notice a bit of delay with Japanese players, it isn't broken by any means. In fact, the first splatfest was some of the worst lagged players I have ever seen.
GGs everyone. Lunchtime.
I think committing to a passive strategy like that enables break out wins more often than applying constant pressure by moving the tower. It's probably a good strategy to just defend in the last minute or so to avoid overtime but if you have the time its a lot safer to win by getting the tower to the goal. Even if you don't get it all the way in, it increases the distance your opponents have to move the tower to beat you.
It is a huge problem when your weapon requires pin point precision and you do nothing wrong, you miss because the player isn't where he appears to be on your screen, while they have rollers that cover an entire cone of space and one hit KO you. It's broken
The thing is if you push into enemy territory you are putting yourself in a disadvantage, whereas defending from a passive position puts you in the advantage. If you die during a rush and your teammates are unable to cover for you then that can also be game deciding.
Azure Phoenix
Member
Does anyone here happen to have Red Work Boots equipped on their character at all? Somehow I seem to be missing 3 out of the 4 shoes with Quick Super Jump, they've never been in my shops.
If you shoot the enemy model, you will hit. Players may jerk around or even teleport, but if they are on your screen, you can hit them.
Dealing with enemy rollers is part of the skill progression in this game. You will overcome. I still die to carbon rollers due to speed, but I have no problem with any others. Even Dynamos are no sweat for me now. Yes, even lagged ones. The key is to stay at range from enemy ink to avoid ambush. Without the ambush, rollers are at a disadvantage. It all comes down to your personal skill and weapon choice.
More than once I'vs sniped a guy, even got the death sound and he just took 2 steps and transformed into Kraken as if nothing happened. Or hit 5 times a guy with the .52 Gal and him not dying.
Has that been confirmed? Because I'm pretty sure treehouse said the tower only moves faster when resetting to neutral.
I disagree. If you have the point advantage already, it's still beneficial to push because the team that has the tower in enemy territory theoretically has the point advantage, the time advantage, the space/time advantage (they have to move to tower further than you do, which takes time), the map advantage (ink covering more of the map for their team if they're smart), and more opportunity to simply end the game with a win. The other team has multiple disadvantages and has to work harder to win.
If they are able to work harder than your team and get the tower into your territory, than yes, they gained certain advantages, but they earned them because they had to work harder. And your team, who had advantages the entire game, is still at the real advantage, because you have the point advantage and time advantage on your side.
Point is, I think the mode is pretty chaotic, but due to it not having many abstractions, and simply being a "get this from here to here" mode, it naturally lends itself to being fairly well balanced.