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[Hours Left]

In regards to the alive/not alive conversation about the DR2 characters, I'd like them to stay dead simply because having everyone get out fine would make all the murders and happenings of the game feel meaningless. There's no weight to them killing each other if they can just get up from it afterwards.

Also, they say "comatose" but the way they describe it sounds more like being brain dead. That's a lot harder to come back from than just waking up.

I can understand that feeling of wanting stakes, but I feel like having them all possibly live is exactly what you wouldn't expect, which makes the outcome more interesting and exciting. This series thrives on setting expectations, and then flipping the table.

And no one was actually murdered, so should people die just because it seemed real? (And it's already been shown with Chiaki and Usami that deleting someone's avatar doesn't mean they are completely gone. That was just a presumption Junko, Makoto & co. held which was proven wrong, along with other aspects of the Neo World Program, which seems to be constantly growing and changing.)

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Either way, I doubt DR3 would be about the DR2 cast again, and they're all isolated on Jabberwock Island anyways, so maybe it wouldn't matter.

 

[RPG_Fanatic]

I feel like I'm the only one who enjoyed Hiyoko and Teruteru ;_;

Especially Teruteru. Obviously he was a pervert but I thought it was a lot funnier than it should have been. Like a better version of Hifumi's character from DR1. Not to mention his motivation made him kinda sympathetic (despite the fact once you realized they were Ultimate Despairs and he probably cooked his mom and ate her)

I'm just not fond of characters who are really perverted or have really foul mouths. So they got alot of negative points from me.

 

[dakkumauji]

So i've been wondering about this for a while. Why do you guys think AE designed Chiaki to have narcolepsy?

I think it's part of the AI program. Her being slow in responding is pretty much the program thinking of an answer or processing an answer. She's probably sleeping cause she doesn't have enough memory to run so many things at once.

Chihiro needed to give her more memory, lol


And on the if they stay dead or alive, I would prefer if they stayed dead. If we can't have a happy ending in the first game, I wouldn't want the same for this game. >:[

 

[PK Gaming]

In regards to the alive/not alive conversation about the DR2 characters, I'd like them to stay dead simply because having everyone get out fine would make all the murders and happenings of the game feel meaningless. There's no weight to them killing each other if they can just get up from it afterwards.

Also, they say "comatose" but the way they describe it sounds more like being brain dead. That's a lot harder to come back from than just waking up.

I wouldn't exactly qualify "waking up" as getting out fine. They have to live with the fact that they'll have to stay on the island forever. They also have to to live with the mutilation they caused to their own bodies. None of them can pursue their dreams or live in a world where their friends and family are alright. In any case, I don't the killings are rendered meaningless if they wake up, because all of them gained lessons related those killings (ie: the immense amount of despair that accompanied those killings). Island Teruteru is definitely different from his old self, even if he was a killer.

If the comatose kids do wake up, I think they can achieve a quiet, happy life together.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Until the Future Foundation hunts them down.

 

[Hours Left]

I wouldn't exactly qualify "waking up" as getting out fine. They have to live with the fact that they'll have to stay on the island forever. They also have to to live with the mutilation they caused to their own bodies. None of them can pursue their dreams or live in a world where their friends and family are alright. I don't the killings are rendered meaningless if they wake up, because all of them gained lessons related those killings (ie: the immense amount of despair that accompanies those killings). Island Teruteru is definitely different from his old self, even if he is a killer.

If the comatose kids do wake up, I think they can live a quiet, happy life together.

Yeah, they'll still have to deal with their past lives, and whatever they've done to themselves in the name of despair. (I actually want to see what they all look like.) And as you said, it's very possible they'll be left on that island forever. (Though I doubt that'll happen, someone at the FF will get curious eventually and go see what's up.)

 

[Red The Hunter]

hahaha

 

[ColossalLazy]

Until the Future Foundation hunts them down.

I wonder if the Future Foundation is trustworthy. Hope Peak Academy was really fucked up.

Also I have trouble believing that the Neo World Program woudnt have backups since it was made by Ultimates.

 

[Hours Left]

hahaha

This reminds me that I'm upset we didn't get hamster closure. I thought for sure they'd all migrate to Sonia after Gundham's "death", but she only made one fleeting reference to them.

Also, where they avatars too? Or just aspects of Gundham's memory?

 

[Labrys]

Thought I'd post it here, but someone asked Orenronen, the guy who did the first LP/translation of the first game, about the junko having children line. He had this to say:

"Here’s the original line, along with a literal translation:

他には、江ノ島の子孫を作ろうとして、 死んだ彼女の体から…
Other than that, (some people) attempting to create Enoshima’s offsprings (took) from her dead body…

So, yes, it’s implied that they took something rather than attempted to have sex with a corpse. Creepy either way, but there.

Edit: had I been translating this line I would probably start with something like “Then there were those who wanted to continue Enoshima’s genetic line, so they harvested her body for…” (Naegi is interrupted at this point)"

link

 

[PK Gaming]

Until the Future Foundation hunts them down.

Makoto Naegi: We’ll just have to try and hide it from then, then.

 

[LX_Theo]

This reminds me that I'm upset we didn't get hamster closure. I thought for sure they'd all migrate to Sonia after Gundham's "death", but she only made one fleeting reference to them.

Also, where they avatars too? Or just aspects of Gundham's memory?

They couldn't have been avatars. They were identical to the ones Gundham had when he entered Hope's Peak. Otherwise, he would have noticed something was up. Hamsters don't live long enough for them to still be alive.

 

[Hours Left]

Thought I'd post it here, but someone asked Orenronen, the guy who did the first LP/translation of the first game, about the junko having children line. He had this to say:



link

Which is a bit weird when you look at the accompanying picture. It looks like someone straddling the body.

They couldn't have been avatars. They were identical to the ones Gundham had when he entered Hope's Peak. Otherwise, he would have noticed something was up. Hamsters don't live long enough for them to still be alive.

They also shouldn't have ninja powers, but here we are. I'm gonna say they're alive too through the power of hope and anime/video games.

 

[jello44]

I
If the comatose kids do wake up, I think they can achieve a quiet, happy life together.

Wouldn't they be at least 18 or older?

All their school memories were wiped, so they were all meeting for the first time and judging by the newspaper clipping you find of a much mature looking Hiyoko they have to be more than kids.

Here, have some fanart of the two best girls.

soure

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Makoto Naegi: We’ll just have to try and hide it from then, then.

Naegi fails; is reprimanded. Kyoko and Byakuya play dumb so as to not suffer consequences; a strike squad by the FF is sent to the island.

 

[Rhapsody]

I just finished the game. Simply brilliant. The game blew me away and went above my expectations.

The writing was top notch. Lots of feels and lots of despair was felt.

 

[LX_Theo]

Thought I'd post it here, but someone asked Orenronen, the guy who did the first LP/translation of the first game, about the junko having children line. He had this to say:

link

Interesting. I don't think his idea for the translation is necessarily the best. That line had big impact, being the closer to a series of horrible acts. His idea, at least how he phrased it, wouldn't have that same punch.

 

[Alfredo]

The next Danganwrestling is gonna take a while, as it's gonna be the most effort I put into an episode yet...so here's a preview.

http://youtu.be/xpx_EnEPTI0

It's missing a few video effects, but it's a good indication of what to expect from the trial. Despite all the work, it's kind of fun to make my own Danganronpa trial.

Danganronpa 2 characters will make their way into the story at some point, but I'm not gonna include any DR2 spoilers, since the game is so "new."

 

[FStubbs]

Since the odds of them waking up aren't zero, just virtually zero, Nagito will wake up first. They'll use how he wakes up to wake up the others. Then Hajime (who has all of Izuru's talents) and Soda will build an android body for Chiaki (and Usami). They'll all then do Island Mode on the island in perpetuity.

This game has a happy ending. Eventually.

 

[PK Gaming]

Naegi fails; is reprimanded. Kyoko and Byakuya play dumb so as to not suffer consequences; a strike squad by the FF is sent to the island.

Naegi is successful in explaining away the disappearance of the remnants of Despair. Kyoko is impressed by Naegi's ingenuity. Byakuya stays losing.

 

[Rubedo]

I wouldn't exactly qualify "waking up" as getting out fine. They have to live with the fact that they'll have to stay on the island forever. They also have to to live with the mutilation they caused to their own bodies. None of them can pursue their dreams or live in a world where their friends and family are alright. In any case, I don't the killings are rendered meaningless if they wake up, because all of them gained lessons related those killings (ie: the immense amount of despair that accompanied those killings). Island Teruteru is definitely different from his old self, even if he was a killer.

If the comatose kids do wake up, I think they can achieve a quiet, happy life together.

That's true but to me it still feels a bit too happy. I don't really like it when the good guys can just win without any losses. The survivors of DR1 have to deal with all their friends being dead so I feel like it should go for the DR2 characters. It's just so much more despair filled when you know these people will never come back and what they did to each other cannot be undone. The fact that the DR1 cast actually killed each other over motives that amounted to nothing hit hard and I feel like DR2 characters getting to avoid that cost lets them off a bit too easy.

The setting thrives on it being sad, horrifying, and full of despair. If you start letting the good guys get nigh flawless victories than Junko and Ultimate Despair become less imposing because you know you can still beat them. I just think it's more powerful when things feel hopeless like there's no way to win without sacrificing a lot in return.

It would also retroactively cause the decision in Trial 6 to lose meaning. The whole choice is love on the fake island in bliss with your friends in willful ignorance or let them stay dead but be able to go to the real world and try to change things. Who cares if you can just save them anyway? I think it's more powerful if they can't be recovered and they just have to live with what occurred in the sim.

 

[Hours Left]

That's true but to me it still feels a bit too happy. I don't really like it when the good guys can just win without any losses. The survivors of DR1 have to deal with all their friends being dead so I feel like it should go for the DR2 characters. It's just so much more despair filled when you know these people will never come back and what they did to each other cannot be undone. The fact that the DR1 cast actually killed each other over motives that amounted to nothing hit hard and I feel like DR2 characters getting to avoid that cost lets them off a bit too easy.

The setting thrives on it being sad, horrifying, and full of despair. If you start letting the good guys get nigh flawless victories than Junko and Ultimate Despair become less imposing because you know you can still beat them. I just think it's more powerful when things feel hopeless like there's no way to win without sacrificing a lot in return.

It would also retroactively cause the decision in Trial 6 to lose meaning. The whole choice is love on the fake island in bliss with your friends in willful ignorance or let them stay dead but be able to go to the real world and try to change things. Who cares if you can just save them anyway? I think it's more powerful if they can't be recovered and they just have to live with what occurred in the sim.

But is death the only way to experience loss? These people will never be the same.

The choice to stay in the sim was not a choice to live or die, it was a choice to live in a false reality with idealized versions of everyone, or face their actions and try to atone for them, including confronting their true natures.

 

[Caladrius]

Finished this about a week ago. I liked the characters and setting much better than the first. Minigames are all over the place, as a few people have said, but overall trials were much more dynamic and enjoyable.Only major complaint with the story was that I wasn't especially thrilled by the reveal of Junko being the mastermind again. It's internally consistent, but it would have been nice to have a truly new antagonist.

Obligatory character ranking list.

1/2. Gundham/Fuyuhiko
3. Nekomaru
4. Ibuki
5. Chiaki
6. Peko
7. Komaeda
8. Sonia
9. Hajime
10. Kazuichi
11. Ultimate Impostor
12. Teruteru
13. Mikan
14. Akane
15. Mahiru
16. Saionji

I loved the top 5, liked 6 through 9, thought 10-14 were okay and disliked the last two.

This reminds me that I'm upset we didn't get hamster closure. I thought for sure they'd all migrate to Sonia after Gundham's "death", but she only made one fleeting reference to them.

Also, where they avatars too? Or just aspects of Gundham's memory?

The hamsters were probably dead before Gundham came to the island, so probably just data constructs.

 

[Rubedo]

But is death the only way to experience loss? These people will never be the same.

The choice to stay in the sim was not a choice to live or die, it was a choice to live in a false reality with idealized versions of everyone, or face their actions and try to atone for them, including confronting their true natures.

No. Death isn't the only way. But it's certainly happier than the alternative. And I'd prefer a more realistic "You can't always get everyone out alive" approach to the series rather than "Through willpower you can do anything! Even completely get rid of all the evil in you and bring people back to life!"

 

[Hours Left]

No. Death isn't the only way. But it's certainly happier than the alternative. And I'd prefer a more realistic "You can't always get everyone out alive" approach to the series rather than "Through willpower you can do anything! Even completely get rid of all the evil in you and bring people back to life!"

Well, they can't "get rid of all the evil" no matter what they do. The fact is all of them committed countless atrocities as members of the Ultimate Despairs, and many of them are probably mutilated beyond recognition, whether mentally and/or physically. It's not gonna be a day at the beach if/when they wake up, despite them actually being at the beach.

But the whole theme of the ending is making your own path through willpower. It may not line up with what you expect after the first game, but I think that's why it's a better and more interesting outcome. If this game ended just like the previous game, with a small handful of students surviving just to be thrown into a world of despair they had long been absent from, I think that would of been disappointing.

 

[Zephyx]

I wonder if the Future Foundation is trustworthy. Hope Peak Academy was really fucked up.

Also I have trouble believing that the Neo World Program woudnt have backups since it was made by Ultimates.

I have the same skepticism with the Future Foundation. I just find it hard to believe they have that much resource with the current state of their world. They're just too good to be true.

 

[Rubedo]

Well, they can't "get rid of all the evil" no matter what they do. The fact is all of them committed countless atrocities as members of the Ultimate Despairs, and many of them are probably mutilated beyond recognition, whether mentally and/or physically. It's not gonna be a day at the beach if/when they wake up, despite them actually being at the beach.

But the whole theme of the ending is making your own path through willpower. It may not line up with what you expect after the first game, but I think that's why it's a better and more interesting outcome.

Not get rid of all evil but Hajime did cast aside the evil Izuru side despite that being main drawback of the plan he chose. I just feel like if they took the choice to Force Shutdown the system, they should have to deal with the risks they were told about choosing that option rather than just sidestepping through random willpower. Yes they can change who they are from now on, but I don't think they should be able to undo all the death that happened to get there.

 

[Hours Left]

Not get rid of all evil but Hajime did cast aside the evil Izuru side despite that being main drawback of the plan he chose. I just feel like if they took the choice to Force Shutdown the system, they should have to deal with the risks they were told about choosing that option rather than just sidestepping through random willpower. Yes they can change who they are from now on, but I don't think they should be able to undo all the death that happened to get there.

But there was no death in the sim. They were literally bits of data in a computer. The only deaths that should stick IMO is the ones they actually committed, in the real world. There's no getting away from that, nor should there be.

And if they had to deal with the consequence of the Shutdown Sequence exactly has they were described to them (by people that were shown to not completely understand what they were talking about), it would make Chiaki's monologue at the end completely meaningless. She said that they could achieve a miracle if they just decided to do it, and that's what they did.

 

[PK Gaming]

That's true but to me it still feels a bit too happy. I don't really like it when the good guys can just win without any losses. The survivors of DR1 have to deal with all their friends being dead so I feel like it should go for the DR2 characters. It's just so much more despair filled when you know these people will never come back and what they did to each other cannot be undone. The fact that the DR1 cast actually killed each other over motives that amounted to nothing hit hard and I feel like DR2 characters getting to avoid that cost lets them off a bit too easy.

The setting thrives on it being sad, horrifying, and full of despair. If you start letting the good guys get nigh flawless victories than Junko and Ultimate Despair become less imposing because you know you can still beat them. I just think it's more powerful when things feel hopeless like there's no way to win without sacrificing a lot in return.

They're far from being the good guys. It's important to consider that they were a part of Ultimate Despair, aka the group that kickstarted the Tragedy. You can't exactly compare them to the (relatively innocent) DR1 cast. I don't think they achieved flawless victory over Junko, because up until the ending, the plan was to have them die so that Junko could inhabit their bodies. That didn't happen because of the efforts of Naegi's group and Chiaki & Monomi. I think it would be more accurate to say that they were given the chance to choose their own futures, rather than completely destroying Junko (I mean that happened regardless but...). It's a very different take from DR1's ending, but I appreciate what they were going for. It wouldn't be wise to replicate the exact same feeling from the first game.

ALso, there's no guarantee they'll wake up. It could take 5, 10 maybe even 20 years before they can wake up from comatose. That's not a happy ending, but it's an ending filled with possibility. It's completely different from the way DR1 handles the loss and death, but I don't think it's a bad thing. Because unlike DR1, the ending is filled with Hope and Despair. Hope that they'll one day wake up, and Despair that they won't.

I think the ending would suffer if the comatose students died, because then what would the living strive for? The ambiguous ending lended to the game's overall message; Forgetting the past and having faith in the future. Good or bad.

It would also retroactively cause the decision in Trial 6 to lose meaning. The whole choice is love on the fake island in bliss with your friends in willful ignorance or let them stay dead but be able to go to the real world and try to change things. Who cares if you can just save them anyway? I think it's more powerful if they can't be recovered and they just have to live with what occurred in the sim.

No, the choice was between hope for themselves (the 6 survivors retain their memories+ the revival of the dead students) or Hope for the world (the destruction of Junko, loss of their memories and the *death* of the students). There's no love on the fake island of bliss. I think your last point is still valid even if they do survive (especially if they all don't wake up at the same time, some of them suffer from brain damage, etc)

 

[Hours Left]

They're far from being the good guys; remember, they were a part of Ultimate Despair, the group that kickstarted the Tragedy. You can't exactly compare them to the (relatively innocent) DR1 cast. I don't think they achieved flawless victory over Junko; up until the ending, the plan was to have them die so that Junko could inhabit their bodies, but that didn't happen because of the efforts of Naegi's group and Chiaki & Monomi. I think it would be more accurate to say that they were given the chance to choose their own futures, rather than outright defeat Junko. It's a very different feeling from DR1's ending, and I appreciate what they were going for. It wouldn't be wise to replicate the exact same feeling from the first game.

Furthermore, there's no guarantee they'll wake up. It could take 5, 10 maybe even 20 years before they can wake up from comatose. That's not a happy ending, but it's an ending filled with possibility. It's completely different from the way DR1 handles the loss and death, but I don't think it's a bad thing. Because unlike DR1, the ending is filled with Hope and Despair. Hope that they'll one day wake up, and Despair that they won't.

I think the ending would suffer if the comatose students died, because then what would the living strive for? The ambiguous ending lended to the game's overall message; Forgetting the past and having faith in the future. Good or bad.

This is a very good point. If everyone who "died" really was dead for real, what would the remaining five have to live for? They're not getting off the island anytime soon (if ever), and I feel it would seem pretty damn heartless to see Makoto & co. leave them to wallow in their pity. They can't take them with back to the FF, they'd be killed.

This way Hajime & co. have something to work towards, and they have a way to atone for their past crimes, by working toward hope.

 

[Rubedo]

But there was no death in the sim. They were literally bits of data in a computer. The only deaths that should stick IMO is the ones they actually committed, in the real world. There's no getting away from that, nor should there be.

And if they had to deal with the consequence of the Shutdown Sequence exactly has they were described to them (by people that were shown to not completely understand what they were talking about), it would make Chiaki's monologue at the end completely meaningless. She said that they could achieve a miracle if they just decided to do it, and that's what they did.

The sim felt completely real so it definitely counts as killing someone. The murderers really did intend to actually kill real people. And, in a sense, they did. Junko says their brains shut down and it's just their bodies that are alive. So a lot like being brain dead. I imagine it's like most VR situations in anime/games where if they die in the game the brain dies from going into shock or whatever. Essentially it was their minds that were uploaded to the game (which is essentially "them") and that's what was killed so it is definitely murder.

And Chiaki was talking about how they could pace their own future. Sure, they can. But I just feel like it's better if they can improve the present and future but you can't run away from the past (the murders and deaths). The fact that everyone in DR1 was dead for basically no good reason was part of what made that ending potent IMO. Their friends were never coming back, the world was in shambles, and the best they could hope to do is just to make things better where they could for the future. And I think that's how it should be for the DR2 gang too. The best they can do is hope and pave a better future, but there's no changing what has happened already.

 

[Hours Left]

The sim felt completely real so it definitely counts as killing someone. The murderers really did intend to actually kill real people. And, in a sense, they did. Junko says their brains shut down and it's just their bodies that are alive. So a lot like being brain dead. I imagine it's like most VR situations in anime/games where if they die in the game the brain dies from going into shock or whatever. Essentially it was their minds that were uploaded to the game (which is essentially "them") and that's what was killed so it is definitely murder.

And Chiaki was talking about how they could pace their own future. Sure, they can. But I just feel like it's better if they can improve the present and future but you can't run away from the past (the murders and deaths). The fact that everyone in DR1 was dead for basically no good reason was part of what made that ending potent IMO. Their friends were never coming back, the world was in shambles, and the best they could hope to do is just to make things better where they could for the future. And I think that's how it should be for the DR2 gang too. The best they can do is hope and pave a better future, but there's no changing what has happened already.

But as I already mentioned, Junko, Makoto, Kyoko and Byakuya didn't have a full understanding of how the Neo World Program worked. And the deaths were not real/final, as already proven by Chiaki and Usami.

I get your point, but I don't agree with it. I don't see how the ending of DR2 turning out just like the first game brings anything unique or interesting at all. And they won't be able to work towards a new future if they have nothing to work on. They are not getting off the island in the foreseeable future. If the comatose students are truly gone, what do Hajime and the others have to work towards? This is their atonement, trying to revive their friends.

Otherwise, what's the point of their triumph over Junko? (And for that matter, The Future Foundation.) So they can putter around the island until they die?

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I don't think that having them live invalidates their deaths at all. If anything, a second shot is sort of a reward for all the crap the students have been through their entire lives, and a well-deserved reward at that. And I mean, having the comatose students eventually wake up offscreen isn't the same as them making their triumphant return in the game's coda or anything. It won't make the emotions you felt when they died less real, nor will it hurt the game's narrative because it didn't happen during the game's narrative. Happy endings aren't schlocky or cop-outs in the slightest if the cast earned that happy ending, and by jove, I can't think of a more deserving bunch of characters than DR2's cast.

Plus the human brain is biologically programmed to enjoy happy endings more than depressing ones, so you secretly want them to live and just don't know it ;P

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Happy endings aren't schlocky or cop-outs in the slightest if the cast earned that happy ending, and by jove, I can't think of a more deserving bunch of characters than DR2's cast.

A bunch of mass murderers and psychopaths who decided to come up with a plan to destroy the world for good—via resurrecting Junko—by betraying the people who cared for them and wanted to mentally rehabilitate them, risking their own status with their respective group as a result? Reminds me of someone who was saying it wasn't Mondo's fault that he killed Chihiro in the first game and that he deserved forgiveness.

 

[Acid08]

Naegi is successful in explaining away the disappearance of the remnants of Despair. Kyoko is impressed by Naegi's ingenuity. Byakuya stays losing.

PK, you're the greatest!

 

[Rubedo]

But as I already mentioned, Junko, Makoto, Kyoko and Byakuya didn't have a full understanding of how the Neo World Program worked. And the deaths were not real/final, as already proven by Chiaki and Usami.

I get your point, but I don't agree with it. I don't see how the ending of DR2 turning out just like the first game brings anything unique or interesting at all. And they won't be able to work towards a new future if they have nothing to work on. They are not getting off the island in the foreseeable future. If the comatose students are truly gone, what do Hajime and the others have to work towards? This is their atonement, trying to revive their friends.

Otherwise, what's the point of their triumph over Junko? (And for that matter, The Future Foundation.) So they can putter around the island until they die?

Monomi and Chiaki are AI so I assume that's how they are able to appear again so easily. It's a manipulation of code rather than transferring a consciousness back to a body. And still, being reversible doesn't make the murders "not real". From the victims' and executed's points of view they are, for all intensive purposes, dead at the moment.

And I'm not saying I don't like the ending. It's great except I felt the Hajime throwing Izuru away thing should have been explained more as Chiaki being able to manipulate the system rather than just seemingly some willpower Gurren Lagann thing. What I'm saying is that I would be heavily disappointed if in DR3 or any other future installment it is revealed that the dead were actually brought back. Keeping it ambiguous as to whether it can be done or not is fine. It keeps with the theme of their being a possibility but not certainty of a better future. I just don't want them to actually answer it next game with "Oh yeah you know all those people that died? Guess what, they're back anyway so whatever." IMO, they should either keep it as being possible but not likely forever or have it revealed next game that, no, it isn't actually possible to wake them up. But they can still use the memories of the times they shared with the dead to inspire them to make the world better for themselves and everyone who is still alive.

 

[LX_Theo]

A bunch of mass murderers and psychopaths who decided to come up with a plan to destroy the world for good—via resurrecting Junko—by betraying the people who cared for them and wanted to mentally rehabilitate them, risking their own status with their respective group as a result? Reminds me of someone who was saying it wasn't Mondo's fault that he killed Chihiro in the first game and that he deserved forgiveness.

To be fair... For those people... It's a bad ending. For the cast of the avatars? Happy ending.

 

[Hours Left]

Monomi and Chiaki are AI so I assume that's how they are able to appear again so easily. It's a manipulation of code rather than transferring a consciousness back to a body. And still, being reversible doesn't make the murders "not real". From the victims' and executed's points of view they are, for all intensive purposes, dead at the moment.

And I'm not saying I don't like the ending. It's great except I felt the Hajime throwing Izuru away thing should have been explained more as Chiaki being able to manipulate the system rather than just seemingly some willpower Gurren Lagann thing. What I'm saying is that I would be heavily disappointed if in DR3 or any other future installment it is revealed that the dead were actually brought back. Keeping it ambiguous as to whether it can be done or not is fine. It keeps with the theme of their being a possibility but not certainty of a better future. I just don't want them to actually answer it next game with "Oh yeah you know all those people that died? Guess what, they're back anyway so whatever." IMO, they should either keep it as being possible but not likely forever or have it revealed next game that, no, it isn't actually possible to wake them up. But they can still use the memories of the times they shared with the dead to inspire them to make the world better for themselves and everyone who is still alive.

Well, I don't know what else to say other than I disagree. I don't see how Hajime and the other known survivors can make the world better by being stranded on an island with nothing to do, and no way to atone for their past sins. (Besides the act of simply living, but that's really boring.)

The ambiguity of the ending means we won't know the answer unless the creators decide to tell us, but until then, I still strongly think that the ending is alluding to a much more hopeful outcome of everyone living.

Anyway, if there's one thing we can all agree on is that either way that Nekomaru lives due to the awesomeness of Minimaru. (The only good thing Kazuichi ever did.)

 

[Rubedo]

To be fair... For those people... It's a bad ending. For the cast of the avatars? Happy ending.

Yeah. Exactly. And I think that's part of my problem with how it happened. The "good guys" pretty much won and the bad guys got destroyed big time.

I like how in the first one, the group defeated Junko but the world was still shit and their friends were dead. It wasn't overly optimistic nor was it completely cynical. It was just realistic. The odds were against them but they still had the tiny bit of hope that they could make it better to let them go on anyway.

In 2, it's like not only do they beat Junko but they get rid of one of the main drawbacks that was supposed to come with victory (having to deal with the memories of their past selves) and having an opening to getting rid of the other drawback as well (friends are dead). I just feel like they won too much while the bad guys lost too much footing. Instead of completely casting the Despair side of themselves aside by some random willpower magic they should have had to reconcile their Sim selves and their Despair selves and have the "good" versions slowly become dominate over time but still have to deal with that evil rather than just destroying it wholesale and acting like it didn't happen.

 

[antibolo]

Naegi is successful in explaining away the disappearance of the remnants of Despair. Kyoko is impressed by Naegi's ingenuity. Byakuya stays losing.

Naegi thinks that he now has a chance with Kyoko. He is promptly friendzoned again. Byakuya laughs at him.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Instead of completely casting the Despair side of themselves aside by some random willpower magic they should have had to reconcile their Sim selves and their Despair selves and have the "good" versions slowly become dominate over time but still have to deal with that evil rather than just destroying it wholesale and acting like it didn't happen.

I disagree with you here. Neither their despair selves or their avatar selves live in isolation, and that's consistent even at the end of the game. Even if the dormant ones awaken, they will most likely regain their memories like Hajime did, and have to come face to face with the realities of what they did while under Junko's influence, along with what cast them into despair in the first place, potentially experiencing PTSD as a result. Not to mention how some could revert to being Ultimate Despair, exactly like Mikan did, once they regained their memories. Even if they didn't regain their memories, they would have to live with the fact that they committed horrible crimes in the past and that the growing influence that is the FF would hunt them down as fugitives if they were to make their presence known.

It's not an all-out happy/good ending here. They still were fucked up people, and that reality won't leave them, despite what they went through in the VR.

Edit: To add to that, they would also have to come to terms with what they did in the VR, too. Several killed each other in there, often without remorse. Fuyuhiko's sister situation would be, once again, a point of tension between the group who were involved in that. Ibuki and Hiyoko would have to face Mikan, who violently murdered them in that world. All of these are memories that would stick.

 

[Hours Left]

Naegi thinks that he now has a chance with Kyoko. He is promptly friendzoned again. Byakuya laughs at him.

Makoto and Byakuya are both brutally murdered. Kyoko smirks. Everyone wins.

 

[jello44]

Makoto and Byakuya are both brutally murdered. Kyoko smirks. Everyone wins.

 

[Rubedo]

I disagree with you here. Neither their despair selves or their avatar selves live in isolation, and that's consistent even at the end of the game. Even if the dormant ones awaken, they will most likely regain their memories like Hajime did, and have to come face to face with the realities of what they did while under Junko's influence, along with what cast them into despair in the first place, potentially experiencing PTSD as a result. Not to mention how some could revert to being Ultimate Despair, exactly like Mikan did, once they regained their memories. Even if they didn't regain their memories, they would have to live with the fact that they committed horrible crimes in the past and that the growing influence that is the FF would hunt them down as fugitives if they were to make their presence known.

It's not an all-out happy/good ending here. They still were fucked up people, and that reality won't leave them, despite what they went through in the VR.

Edit: To add to that, they would also have to come to terms with what they did in the VR, too. Several killed each other in there, often without remorse. Fuyuhiko's sister situation would be, once again, a point of tension between the group who were involved in that. Ibuki and Hiyoko would have to face Mikan, who violently murdered them in that world. All of these are memories that would stick.

Part of the deal for Force Shutdown was that they would have to remember all the horrible things they did. They CHOSE that path. So I just find it odd that what happened was basically "You know how we said they would have to deal with their past but the good outweighed the bad? Nah fuck that. Hajime gets his whole Island personality back and there is absolutely no trace of Despair memories to be seen."

Activating the shutdown meant they would have to face their real world (evil) selves but they determined it was worth it since they could still change and be better people. But that's kinda thrown out the window when apparently they really don't remember the evil side. Or, if they do, it isn't really shown. It makes it so the choice from Trial 6 has a very obvious right answer and makes the decision rather black and white as opposed to the gray/gray one from DR1 where both choices had an upside and downside. The downsides from the DR2 choice were cast aside almost immediately.

 

[PK Gaming]

Part of the deal for Force Shutdown was that they would have to remember all the horrible things they did. They CHOSE that path. So I just find it odd that what happened was basically "You know how we said they would have to deal with their past but the good outweighed the bad? Nah fuck that. Hajime gets his whole Island personality back and there is absolutely no trace of Despair memories to be seen."

How do you know that? The ending could easily be interpreted as Hajime choosing to live on, despite having those memories. Junko's posits that regaining their memories will definitely lead to Despair, but Hajime disproves that. They're doing exactly what you suggested; living and trying to change for the better despite all that's happened. It's one of the biggest overarching themes in the game.

Activating the shutdown meant they would have to face their real world (evil) selves but they determined it was worth it since they could still change and be better people. But that's kinda thrown out the window when apparently they really don't remember the evil side. Or, if they do, it isn't really shown. It makes it so the choice from Trial 6 has a very obvious right answer and makes the decision rather black and white as opposed to the gray/gray one from DR1 where both choices had an upside and downside. The downsides from the DR2 choice were cast aside almost immediately.

It's implied that their current personalities are an amalgamation of both.

TOGAMI BYAKUYA: Are those kids really going to be all right? Are you sure they won’t just go back to despair?
NAEGI MAKOTO: I don’t think that’ll happen.
NAEGI MAKOTO: If that’s true, then they wouldn’t have wanted to stay on this island.
KIRIGIRI KYOUKO: Maybe they want to help their sleeping friends?
NAEGI MAKOTO: I can’t say for sure, but ... I think so.
KIRIGIRI KYOUKO: Whether they know it or not ...
KIRIGIRI KYOUKO: The fact that they feel that way alone shows that these kids aren’t the same as they were before.

I think it would have been mentioned if they got a complete change in personality.

 

[Rubedo]

How do you know that? The ending could easily be interpreted as Hajime choosing to live on, despite having those memories. Junko's posits that regaining their memories will definitely lead to Despair, but Hajime disproves that. They're doing exactly what you suggested; living and trying to change for the better despite all that's happened. It's one of the biggest overarching themes in the game.



It's implied that their current personalities are an amalgamation of both.

Because there is absolutely no indication of Izuru existing within him after that. Even after going Super Saiyan, he still acts just like regular Hajime. I assumed they did merge but it never really gives any indication of that which is what bugs me. Instead of saying that they merged but Hajime's good side just won over the bad for dominance, it just goes on without explanation and makes it look like Hajime just trashed the Izuru side completely. Which goes against what was supposed to happen. There should have at least been a short segment where the two personalities explicitly merge and Hajime just chooses to live with it rather than how it was portrayed.

Well, I don't know what else to say other than I disagree. I don't see how Hajime and the other known survivors can make the world better by being stranded on an island with nothing to do, and no way to atone for their past sins. (Besides the act of simply living, but that's really boring.)

The ambiguity of the ending means we won't know the answer unless the creators decide to tell us, but until then, I still strongly think that the ending is alluding to a much more hopeful outcome of everyone living.

Anyway, if there's one thing we can all agree on is that either way that Nekomaru lives due to the awesomeness of Minimaru. (The only good thing Kazuichi ever did.)

Are they really stuck there though? The whole point of putting them in the game was to condition them back to being contributing members of the world. That implies Makoto intended to let them help rebuild the world alongside his group once they returned to their pre-Despair selves. Not just rot on an island forever.

And I agree the game does seem to imply the dead will be revived. That's the part I don't like. I don't want the dead to come back. After going through a whole game centered around their deaths, I think they should stay that way.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Because there is absolutely no indication of Izuru existing within him after that. Even after going Super Saiyan, he still acts just like regular Hajime. I assumed they did merge but it never really gives any indication of that which is what bugs me. Instead of saying that they merged but Hajime's good side just won over the bad for dominance, it just goes on without explanation and makes it look like Hajime just trashed the Izuru side completely. Which goes against what was supposed to happen. There should have at least been a short segment where the two personalities explicitly merge and Hajime just chooses to live with it rather than how it was portrayed.

I'm not sure where you're getting your conclusions from. The only point Hajime—and most likely the other "survivors"—regains his memories as Izuru is when they've left the VR, at which point the game gives us no insight at all into how Hajime deals with the reality of who he is and what he's done other than he cut his hair or something, with the game being mostly narrated through the FF's perspective at that point. He hadn't regained his Izuru memories yet when he turned super saiyan. It's left to our interpretation in the end, I suppose, and mine isn't that he'd simply shrug it off—or that the others would shrug off their VR memories or being Ultimate Despairs—as though it was no big deal.

Off-topic, but can anyone remind me why Junko was in Hope's Peak with the DR1 crew during the Killing School Life? When they locked themselves in to avoid the crazy shit of the outside world, they must have fully known that Junko was the Ultimate Despair, right? Then was Junko hiding in that building or something when they barricaded themselves in?

 

[LX_Theo]

Because there is absolutely no indication of Izuru existing within him after that. Even after going Super Saiyan, he still acts just like regular Hajime. I assumed they did merge but it never really gives any indication of that which is what bugs me. Instead of saying that they merged but Hajime's good side just won over the bad for dominance, it just goes on without explanation and makes it look like Hajime just trashed the Izuru side completely. Which goes against what was supposed to happen. There should have at least been a short segment where the two personalities explicitly merge and Hajime just chooses to live with it rather than how it was portrayed.

Not really, the text about the impressions they gave the

 

[Rubedo]

I'm not sure where you're getting your conclusions from. The only point Hajime—and most likely the other "survivors"—regains his memories as Izuru is when they've left the VR, at which point the game gives us no insight at all into how Hajime deals with the reality of who he is and what he's done other than he cut his hair or something, with the game being mostly narrated through the FF's perspective at that point. He hadn't regained his Izuru memories yet when he turned super saiyan. It's left to our interpretation in the end, I suppose, and mine isn't that he'd simply shrug it off as though it was no big deal.

Right. That's kinda my point. It's not explained at all in the end. He SEEMS fine. Did he merge with Izuru? Is he partially evil? I mean it just doesn't say. You get that one blurb and it isn't explained. But from the tiny bit you see he seems fine with absolutely no issue with having Izuru's memories merged into his. So it looks like it either wasn't actually a problem at all or they didn't actually merge. So I wouldn't count that as the bitter part of what people are calling a "bittersweet" ending. From what we see it isn't that bitter and, if it was intended to be, that wasn't portrayed enough. DR1's ending was bittersweet. DR2 seemed much more sweet.