[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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trudderham said:
I get the feeling that in 5/10/20 years when people watch all 9 movies for the first time they're going to get to this latest film and think "haven't I already watched this movie?" Yeah it's full of nostalgia, but at some point in the future that won't have relevance to the next generation of audiences.
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See, I'm pretty sure that they played the nostalgia card super heavily with The Force Awakens to mark it as a transition. To give us a final hit of nostalgia before the series goes new places.

> Episode 7: hey, here's the Star Wars you know and love, but moving forward very slightly into new narrative territory. As Leia says, the future is where to look and things are going to change. Han's death marked the move on from the old to the new.

> Episode 8: oh, the Star Wars you know and love? We killed it. It's gone. Shit gets crazy now. The way they've projected Kylo's arc of "going further than any other primary villain in series history" and Rey's arc of "possibly being the most powerful Jedi ever" along with the clearly changing landscape of full-blown star-system genocide... Basically I think they're trying to set up Episode 8 as another Empire Strikes Back. A dark middle act for the new trilogy. Who knows the heinous things Kylo will get up to. Who knows the tribulations Rey and Finn will face.

I am 100%, all for this. All the politics are there. All the character situations/projected story arcs are there.

Signs are positive. Imo.

Bobby Roberts said:
Christensen showing up from 80 years since he last looked like that, all blue & glowy

"the FUCK is wrong with you, little kid? Huh? You greasy fucking chump. You make me sick. Stop calling this number."
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Kylo: *rage intensifies*
 
Violence Jack said:
After letting this movie settle in my brain for a bit, I'm starting to think that Kylo Ren might end up being even more terrifying than Vader. His behavior seems to be unpredictable, unhinged, and he might just be a little bit insane. If that ends up being the case, Kylo Ren is going to fuck some shit up in a very big way.
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The way I see it Im also seeing Luke as the real villain at this point

Fucker ran away and let this all happen. WTF happened that would make Ben take the path he did
 
There was one shot of a star destroyer that looked amazing in 3D, the rest of it was just to add some depth to the scenes and it did a serviceable job at that.

Not necessary to see in 3D, like most post-conversions.
 
Me: "Whoaaaa Snoke is huge I had no idea there were giants in Star Wars..."
end of scene: ".....oh it's a hologram."

I felt soooo dumb.
 
DrROBschiz said:
But Vader wast Seduced

He sought to betray the Emperor the minute he knew about Luke. He says so himself as the end of Ep5

That was before Luke tried to convince him to abandon his plans for world domination

I only bring this up because I recently rewatched the original trilogy after a long time and this stood out to me
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To my way of thinking Vader wanted to kill the Emperor, as soon as he found out Padme was dead. It was like he was thinking to himself, this lying sonofabitch...but simultaneously needed him in power to form his own plans.
 
Sorcerer said:
To my way of thinking Vader wanted to kill the Emperor, as soon as he found out Padme was dead. It was like he was thinking to himself, this lying sonofabitch...
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Vader wanted to kill Emperor before then. Remember he told Padme he could overthrow Palpatine and together he and Padme could rule the galaxy.
 
SomTervo said:
See, I'm pretty sure that they played the nostalgia card super heavily with The Force Awakens to mark it as a transition.

> Episode 7: hey, here's the Star Wars you know and love, but moving forward very slightly into new narrative territory. As Leia says, the future is where to look and things are going to change. Han's death marked the move on from the old to the new.

> Episode 8: oh, the Star Wars you know and love? We killed it. It's gone. Shit gets crazy now. The way they've projected Kylo's arc of "going further than any other primary villain in series history" and Rey's arc of "possibly being the most powerful Jedi ever" along with the clearly changing landscape of full-blown star-system genocide... Basically I think they're trying to set up Episode 8 as another Empire Strikes Back. A dark middle act for the new trilogy. Who knows the heinous things Kylo will get up to. Who knows the tribulations Rey and Finn will face.

I am 100%, all for this. All the politics are there. All the character situations/projected story arcs are there.

Signs are positive. Imo.



Kylo: *rage intensifies*
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Totally agree. Im trying not to get too depressed over the fact that filming hasn't even begun (minus a few scenes) for episode 8.

carlsojo said:
Me: "Whoaaaa Snoke is huge I had no idea there were giants in Star Wars..."
end of scene: ".....oh it's a hologram."

I felt soooo dumb.
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Thought the same thing.
 
I can't believe there's theories online that are positing that Han didn't die.

Guys, HE WAS STABBED THROUGH THE HEART AND FLUNG DOWN A BOTTOMLESS PIT ON A PLANET THAT LATER EXPLODED. MOTHERFUCKER IS DEAD.

And that's not even mentioning that Harrison Ford wanted the character to die multiple times during the original trilogy, but George wouldn't let him. JJ is not as forgiving as he is.
 
carlsojo said:
Me: "Whoaaaa Snoke is huge I had no idea there were giants in Star Wars..."
end of scene: ".....oh it's a hologram."

I felt soooo dumb.
Click to expand...
Haha, took me a while also. You're not alone.

Sandalphon said:
I can't believe there's theories online that are positing that Han didn't die.

Guys, HE WAS STABBED THROUGH THE HEART AND FLUNG DOWN A BOTTOMLESS PIT ON A PLANET THAT LATER EXPLODED. MOTHERFUCKER IS DEAD.

And that's not even mentioning that Harrison Ford wanted the character to die multiple times during the original trilogy, but George wouldn't let him. JJ is not as forgiving as he is.
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Well... they brought back Darth Maul also from a similar situation. But yes, I don't see Han surviving. He's gone.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
You get the sense that he's being pulled by both light and dark sides so much harder than Anakin, like it's almost literally about to rip him in two.

Those moments were played up for humour but they felt devastating to watch, knowing what was brewing inside him.
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Yeah with Anakin/Hayden/Lucas you were meant to understand this but it was almost comical or at least annoying in delivery.

With Ren/Driver/Abrams you get a direct sense of his agony. Gut wrenching scene. I actually believe it was Han who angled the saber. To free his son of that pain.
 
SomTervo said:
See, I'm pretty sure that they played the nostalgia card super heavily with The Force Awakens to mark it as a transition.

> Episode 7: hey, here's the Star Wars you know and love, but moving forward very slightly into new narrative territory. As Leia says, the future is where to look and things are going to change. Han's death marked the move on from the old to the new.

> Episode 8: oh, the Star Wars you know and love? We killed it. It's gone. Shit gets crazy now. The way they've projected Kylo's arc of "going further than any other primary villain in series history" and Rey's arc of "possibly being the most powerful Jedi ever" along with the clearly changing landscape of full-blown star-system genocide... Basically I think they're trying to set up Episode 8 as another Empire Strikes Back. A dark middle act for the new trilogy. Who knows the heinous things Kylo will get up to. Who knows the tribulations Rey and Finn will face.

I am 100%, all for this. All the politics are there. All the character situations/projected story arcs are there.

Signs are positive. Imo.



Kylo: *rage intensifies*
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think it's a given that VIII will have a very dark ending... The villains have to win. In a sense it's predictable, but I'm fine with that. Just make it different enough to be interesting!
 
borghe said:
Yeah with Anakin/Hayden/Lucas you were meant to understand this but it was almost comical or at least annoying in delivery.

With Ren/Driver/Abrams you get a direct sense of his agony. Gut wrenching scene. I actually believe it was Han who angled the saber. To free his son of that pain.
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Its was like an Im sorry moment

But weird since it was framed to give Ren an unhindered path to the dark side

Yet when he fights Rey its clear that it didnt work
 
So I think I figured out why Finn said he was in sanitation yet he was on the ground in the beginning.

So Ren and Phasma noted something was wrong with him. Phasma told him to report for reconditioning (maybe not those exact terms) when he was in the drop ship with his helmet off.

These storm troopers are brainwashed, not programmed like clones. They saw the possibility of him not functioning as a infantryman, so he was reconditioned to be in sanitation. Part of him must still believe that when he tells Han he was in sanitation.

That's the closest reasoning I can get...
 
Cheebo said:
Alec Guinness said "Rey". McGreggor recorded the last like of the vision "These are your first steps...".

Ghost Obi-Wan is contacting Rey during her vision
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I heard they manipulated the word "Afraid" to may "Rey" for the Alec Guinness line. Apparently the sound editing guy was ecstatic because it came out in a way he would have begged for out of the actor.
 
trikster40 said:
So I think I figured out why Finn said he was in sanitation yet he was on the ground in the beginning.

So Ren and Phasma noted something was wrong with him. Phasma told him to report for reconditioning (maybe not those exact terms) when he was in the drop ship with his helmet off.

These storm troopers are brainwashed, not programmed like clones. They saw the possibility of him not functioning as a infantryman, so he was reconditioned to be in sanitation. Part of him must still believe that when he tells Han he was in sanitation.

That's the closest reasoning I can get...
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Nah the opening scene is his first mission on the ground, he used to be in sanitation before
Maybe they need to be a certain age to get a blaster and shit, and do other things before ? dunno
 
Rourkey said:
Didnt he make it up? He admitted to working in sanitation once on the planet!
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This also bothered me. Unless they were running low on manpower, what logical sense does it make to put basically a janitor into a squadron? I want to know more about the origin and training of these new Stormtroopers.
 
Shuggananas said:
Who's Padme ?
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19e2en1mflkshjpg.jpg
 
Harrison Ford never gave two shits about star wars, it was amazing that JJ convinced him to go back to that role again, I knew they would kill him, I didn't see Ford wanting to do another SW movie after TFA
 
trikster40 said:
So I think I figured out why Finn said he was in sanitation yet he was on the ground in the beginning.

So Ren and Phasma noted something was wrong with him. Phasma told him to report for reconditioning (maybe not those exact terms) when he was in the drop ship with his helmet off.

These storm troopers are brainwashed, not programmed like clones. They saw the possibility of him not functioning as a infantryman, so he was reconditioned to be in sanitation. Part of him must still believe that when he tells Han he was in sanitation.

That's the closest reasoning I can get...
Click to expand...

I just assumed that when they're on the ship, each Stormtrooper has different tasks and duties, but they're all disposable infantrymen at the end of the day.
 
Violence Jack said:
This also bothered me. Unless they were running low on manpower, what logical sense does it make to put basically a janitor into a squadron? I want to know more about the origin and training of these new Stormtroopers.
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Maybe its how they Vett their conditioning procedures

like "does this shit we are doing actually work? Put him in the field and find out"
 
DrROBschiz said:
But weird since it was framed to give Ren an unhindered path to the dark side

Yet when he fights Rey its clear that it didnt work
Click to expand...
This is the entire problem. Ren thought that was all he needed to do to complete his turn to the dark side. But it looks like in the end, the love/compassion/sacrifice of his father "hurt" him more than it helped him (and I am guessing Han believed this. That his sacrifice may eventually save his son)
 
Henkka said:
Agreed. I think it's a given that VIII will have a very dark ending... The villains have to win. In a sense it's predictable, but I'm fine with that. Just make it different enough to be interesting!
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Yeah. I agree. I loved Kylo in this, but he did end up eating it pretty hard. I think for him to be a serious threat in the rest of this trilogy, he's going to need to come back in a big, bad, way in VIII.
 
trikster40 said:
So I think I figured out why Finn said he was in sanitation yet he was on the ground in the beginning.

So Ren and Phasma noted something was wrong with him. Phasma told him to report for reconditioning (maybe not those exact terms) when he was in the drop ship with his helmet off.

These storm troopers are brainwashed, not programmed like clones. They saw the possibility of him not functioning as a infantryman, so he was reconditioned to be in sanitation. Part of him must still believe that when he tells Han he was in sanitation.

That's the closest reasoning I can get...
Click to expand...

I always just assumed that he was in sanitation up until that battle since that was his first fight. They probably get assigned various duties so that they're doing more than just training every day leading up to their first combat mission.
 
Shuggananas said:
Nah the opening scene is his first mission on the ground, he used to be in sanitation before
Maybe they need to be a certain age to get a blaster and shit, and do other things before ? dunno
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Right, sanitation was his job before this first mission.
I just think he was so ashamed of being a "soldier" that he wouldn't even mention that he had any part in it.

K' Dash said:
IMO, he knows who she is.
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What do you mean?
 
Violence Jack said:
This also bothered me. Unless they were running low on manpower, what logical sense does it make to put basically a janitor into a squadron? I want to know more about the origin and training of these new Stormtroopers.
Click to expand...

As a soldier you can be trained for combat, but at a base you have specific duty to perform. These duties can also rotate.
 
borghe said:
This is the entire problem. Ren thought that was all he needed to do to complete his turn to the dark side. But it looks like in the end, the love/compassion/sacrifice of his father "hurt" him more than it helped him (and I am guessing Han believed this. That his sacrifice may eventually save his son)
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By Save you mean lead to his early death

You cant save a monster and I dont see any redemption in his future. They kind of need to kill him off in some tragic way
 
Inferno313 said:
I just assumed that when they're on the ship, each Stormtrooper has different tasks and duties, but they're all disposable infantrymen at the end of the day.
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That's what I thought too. Why risk having more people than needed on board when you can just have your stormtroopers take care of things like sanitation, cooking, and so on?
 
Occam said:
As far as the story is concerned, Episode VII having yet another death star was the most disappointing aspect for me. Maybe that's why Lucas never wanted to create Episode VII, because he was out of ideas how to proceed even back in 1983.
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It's just a backdrop. It could be anything. The movie doesn't play out differently, the characters don't develop differently if the superweapon is something else. And the more different you make it from a Deathstar, the more time you have to devote to building it up, explaining it, showing how it works. And all that time you spend on that has to be taken from somewhere.
They built a story that works as a backdrop for new characters to be introduced and developed, and considering how well-liked the characters seem to be it's looking like the right choice.
 
Loved the film but I have some issues with the Death planet, maybe someone can explain.

I assume it must have been able to fly around to find new stars to charge from but that would surely mean that it would have lost all of its atmosphere and not be covered in trees.

If you can extinguish a star then any planets orbiting that star are already fucked without being blown up. In fact they would go spinning off into space without the stars gravity... But the Death planet sucked up the star so now has its mass... which would have made walking around on it just a little uncomfortable...It actually makes no sense whatsoever. :(
 
I absolutely loved it. I'll need to see it again, but at this point, its my favorite Star Wars movie. The action leaves the rest of the series in the dirt. Its fast, fluid, and doesn't fall into the way-too-elaborate choreography of the prequels. The script is witty and brilliant. The characters are fleshed-out and have a lot of personality. JJ performed a miracle and made Harrison Ford look like he gives a damn again. And every shot of the movie is gorgeous and packed with striking colors.The stuff I didn't like is too trivial to even list. My favorite film of 2015.
 
Carbonox said:
I like the idea of each episode focusing on these escalating themes regarding Ren. Next one would almost certainly be him despising Rey and wanting to get revenge for her beating the shit out of him. Final one could be him inflicting suffering on someone (kills another major character) or himself suffering by the climax (surely he won't survive beyond Episode 9). Episode 7 was very much anger-focused for him as he lost his cool a lot.
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Oh, he'll kill more, without a doubt, because now he's really angry. This is a kid who sees himself as the rightful heir to Darth Vader, one of, if not the, most powerful, brutal, and effective empire builders in the history of the galaxy.

And he just got his ass handed to him by an untrained kid. No matter what he tried to do, he couldn't beat her. He had trouble getting into her head, he couldn't find her on Starkiller base, he couldn't pull Luke's saber where she could (he was genuinely surprised, there), and he couldn't beat her in a one on one fight.

Imagine if you were the quarterback valedictorian, and in senior year some transfer student showed up and took it all from you. He's already prone to outbursts, but this is going to tip him past that. I think next go round you'll see him trained. Far deadlier, much more in control. There comes a point with emotions like these, where you either have to let it go, or channel it into something. He's too far in to let it go. Matter of fact, he's trying to hold on to it.

He's not maniacal or manipulative in the way that Sith lords are. He's a kid with too much anger, power, and resources.
 
My number one theory for Rey is that she's Ren's sister. While her force powers are improving, I'd imagine he's at the stage where he could sense the relationship. To what stage who knows based on what we've seen but I prefer the idea more than her being Luke's and find little tidbits in the film pointing more in that direction than any other. Her being left alone on a shitdump of a planet by Leia and Han is a bit silly, mind, but keeping her away from everyone and everything because maybe they suspected the risk with Ren could make sense from a story POV.
 
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