Well I'm bloody glad they did because he was my fave character.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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Well I'm bloody glad they did because he was my fave character.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
why do you say that though? what is your definition of a strong character? cause i disagree but we may have different definitions
They're literally cut from the same cloth, right down to the comedic relief. Obviously things are going to move faster in a 2 hour film, compared to a 61 episode television show.
Breaking free of brain washing that you've been raised with since birth isn't strong?
I mean he is a blank slate for a reason. He wasn't allowed to have any wishes or aspirations.
Jest Chillin
Member
Finn and Kylo get the strongest characterization in this movie, while Poe is a plot device and Rey is a box of mysteries wrapped in an enigma covered in herrings that may be real or may be crimson.
Ether_Snake
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My reworked theory on Rey:
When she was very young (age she was in the vision as a kid), she lived with force church folks, not sure on what planet.
Kylo and the knights of Ren are hunting down the church members wherever they can find them. The other jedis were already killed by Ben when he left (chances are none of them were even trained to use sabers, Ben made his in secret).
Rey is already somewhat force sensitive. Leia and Han have discussed how Snoke lured Ben, so I think he communicated with Rey in the same way, eventually getting her to tell him where she and the rest of the church members were hiding. This explains why Rey has Snoke's face in her vision for a moment. He's a bit like the devil in a way. She might have already been an orphan at that time so he may have used that to get her to trust him, such as telling her her family would come.
Kylo and co. go and kill the church members. One of the church members tries to kill Rey (looks like it in her vision) either because he realizes she was the one who "betrayed" them or to avoid letting Kylo get her. Rey is saved by Kylo on Snoke's orders, and she thinks whoever picks her up are her family.
Soon after they just dump her on Jakku because she served her purpose, a sinister way of saying "thanks". She thinks her family abandoned her but it wasn't her family, just people who used her.
In the next movies if she finds out the truth she could be seen as almost a heretic if people find out she was the one who was used by Snoke. She could also still think her family might be out there among the first order. She might be led to think Luke is using her like she was once used. Lots of potential pitfalls for her.
When she was very young (age she was in the vision as a kid), she lived with force church folks, not sure on what planet.
Kylo and the knights of Ren are hunting down the church members wherever they can find them. The other jedis were already killed by Ben when he left (chances are none of them were even trained to use sabers, Ben made his in secret).
Rey is already somewhat force sensitive. Leia and Han have discussed how Snoke lured Ben, so I think he communicated with Rey in the same way, eventually getting her to tell him where she and the rest of the church members were hiding. This explains why Rey has Snoke's face in her vision for a moment. He's a bit like the devil in a way. She might have already been an orphan at that time so he may have used that to get her to trust him, such as telling her her family would come.
Kylo and co. go and kill the church members. One of the church members tries to kill Rey (looks like it in her vision) either because he realizes she was the one who "betrayed" them or to avoid letting Kylo get her. Rey is saved by Kylo on Snoke's orders, and she thinks whoever picks her up are her family.
Soon after they just dump her on Jakku because she served her purpose, a sinister way of saying "thanks". She thinks her family abandoned her but it wasn't her family, just people who used her.
In the next movies if she finds out the truth she could be seen as almost a heretic if people find out she was the one who was used by Snoke. She could also still think her family might be out there among the first order. She might be led to think Luke is using her like she was once used. Lots of potential pitfalls for her.
Kylo is the strongest character in this movie to me. I don't know how to describe it, but Finn is just decent to me. I hope he is elevated to being what I can consider a strong character along with Kylo and Rey, but after this first movie he is just the guy I want to see in a buddy cop type film side plot with Poe
Nowhere, but you keep hitting the same nail the marketing put a 'bait and switch'. I actualy loved that they made me believe finn was the jedi in the trailers.
And I don't get why you are offended at all. Dude is an important main character for peets sake, who takes a lot of initiative and has a big potential for future installments. And people get offended he is not a jedi bad ass and has some jokes (which he is not the but if at all)
I agree there are too few minorities in lead roles in Hollywood. It is an n issue that needs adressing. But now the biggest movie in decades has a black man as an important main character in an ensemble cast (he has as much screen time and sequences he carries as Rey). If you still complain then I'm sorry, but you lost me
Jest Chillin
Member
Uhh.. Finn lacked no skills. He's a Stormtrooper that's experienced in hand to hand combat and Blaster use from jump. And again.. at the opening he objects to killing innocents and decides not to shoot them, then in the very next setting decieves his superiors and breaks Poe out and mans the guns and shoots down what one would assume were experience TIE pilots. He also the primary source of First Order tactical knowledge which is imperative to the casts survival early in the movie.
Sokka was jokes and uselness for damn near an entire season if not an entire season. Falling back on the time differences doesn't work. Finn is a stronger character. Period.
I'm not offended, I've just been saying I understand why posters who are upset would be upset. I ain't been complaining at all about his character
Digital-Hero
Member
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
ok but you arent defining what strength is to you. secondly, just cause one character is the strongest, doesnt mean another isn't strong.
To me Finn is a strong character in that he was able to follow what he felt was right regardless of a lifetime of programming and conditioning. that takes alot of courage and strength. secondly he put the whole galaxy on the line to save rey with a gamble. thats takes balls. strength. he also was great with blasters and wasnt afraid to put up a fight, even when facing someone he knew to be of greater skill than him. he stood up to kylo ren and was fearless. lacking skill with a lightsaber doesnt mean you lack strength.
I must have mistaken you with some others in the discussions then. Sorry to have adressed you directly.
Not so sure. When she's being interrogated, Kylo see's the island surrounded by sea in her mind, most probably the one Luke is currently on. I think Rey has been on that island before, even if she doesn't herself remember. She was probably a baby whilst there.
Those are all good qualities in a character, but for some reason I don't think he's a strong character. Maybe I need to see it a third time and just focus on him
Finn is a character who sounds better on paper than he looks on the silver screen. On paper he's an experienced storm trooper trained from birth for the purpose of being a soldier, and yet when you see him on screen - he's a fearful spaz who Mr. Magoo's his way through conflicts.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
its also funny you think kylo ren is the strongest, when all my friends who first saw it kept talking about how much of a "emo bitch" kylo ren was, and I had to argue with them about why his character was actually dope. but they arent into films like me.
Jest Chillin
Member
Sounds an awful lot like Han Solo when you put it that way.
Finn doesn't fall ass backwards into situations though. He goes into them and either succeeds or gets fucked up. His first real situation is the shit on Jakku, he realizes it's not for him and leaves. After that we see him take out people in combat and he only loses twice, against Kylo and against the trooped with the electric thing. He is strong in combat
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
also once on the star killer planet, Finn basically takes charge and actually leads han solo and chewie... not only that but confidently faces his old "boss" and when she tried to incite fear into him, he has none of it and confidently shuts her remarks down.
He doesn't lose to that storm trooper. He only gets knocked back. I think if the fight continued he'd have won.
I thought the point was that he wasn't experienced, his first mission was on Jakku in which you saw him see someone that was implied to be his friend die, and then he decided it wasnt for him
He was on his back and about to get crushed by his electric pike. That fight aint going on much longer after Finn is on his back
I don't think so. Being on your back isn't an auto loss, especially when you're weilding a lightsaber. He could have easily come back from it.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
i think when he got knocked on his back the lightsaber flew out of his hand tho.... pretty sure but cant remember
Finn doesn't really know how to use a saber, no one in this film really does. He kills one trooper by gutting him but in the one v one fights he was getting his ass handed to him
Nah, it's in his hand still. It just turns off. When he re-composes the storm trooper hasn't even approached him yet.
Saw it today.
After the movie, you feel exhausted, in a good way. Such a roller coaster of emotions. I know some people are getting cynical about the fan service that was done, but I really enjoyed all of it.
I love that there are still tons of questions left to be answered. They didnt blow their entire load in one movie. This one helps propel the rest of the universe going forward. It saddens me that JJ isnt directing the next one, because he really did the franchise a service by pulling it from prequel hell. Bravo sir. Hopefully who ever is next can live up to the bar that you set so high.
Fantastic movie. Simply a masterpiece.
I still want Finn to be a jedi though. He will always be a jedi in my heart.
After the movie, you feel exhausted, in a good way. Such a roller coaster of emotions. I know some people are getting cynical about the fan service that was done, but I really enjoyed all of it.
I love that there are still tons of questions left to be answered. They didnt blow their entire load in one movie. This one helps propel the rest of the universe going forward. It saddens me that JJ isnt directing the next one, because he really did the franchise a service by pulling it from prequel hell. Bravo sir. Hopefully who ever is next can live up to the bar that you set so high.
Fantastic movie. Simply a masterpiece.
I still want Finn to be a jedi though. He will always be a jedi in my heart.
Silphonica
Banned
Not precisely. A big theme of this movie is ability via state of mind.
Finn is in a complex situation. Indoctrinated to be a one-mind killing entity for the new order. After the atrocities on Jakku his mental capacity is shaken up, he starts the movie with an inner conflict about who he is. His training as a solider, is connected in such a way that is synonymous with how he was raised. After escaping, he is focused mainly on trying to escape the new order, he is crippled by fear. Rey and her capture, makes him reevaluate his goals, he is in a period of rediscovery but ultimately a great uncertainty still lies within him, because of how he was raised.
This theme can be applied to Ren and Rey. On Jakku we see ren display force abilities that surpass what we have seen dark side users to display in the past, it highlights potential of power, but throughout we see Ren in emotional distress, incapable of emitting a certain level of consistency. This is what causes his powers to drop, and allowing Rey to take the upper hand during 3 moments. When she blocked Ren from reading her mind, control of luke's lightsaber, and the very end.
Rey is portrayed from a position of certainty, she knows what her ideals are, for most of the movie she is solid in her morals. Her idealisation of the resistance, the jedi and luke skywalker, her faith is unwavering. Not only that her level of commitment is displayed through her initial story of waiting on jakku for her parents, unwilling to leave her post waiting for her return. Even when she was forced to leave, knowing that going back to jakku is certain death, all she thinks about is going back in hopes her parents return. Because of this, she is portrayed as a very capable and talented individual.
She has two moments of weakness, when she is told her parents won't return after her vision, this is mainly because it shakes the foundation for what she perceives is her reason for existing, but for me is the pivotal point in which she finds a greater realisation about herself to proceed forward. The second is Kylo ren, people complained that she owned him, she didnt win, and in the final fight she spent most of her time running away. From what I can see, this generation of force users are more talented than the last. The force allowed Rey to escape, they didn't allow her to win. Yes she displayed strong powers very quickly. But thats what makes her talented, we can't compare her to ren yet. Because we have no time reference. First of all, keep in mind, my belief is that the state of mind affects performance, ren was weakened, and rey gained a temporary moment of clarity allowing her to escape. Not only that, what do we know so far of Ren? He has had training yes, from luke and snooke, but for how long? We know his training is not complete. In relative terms, he is also a noob with big potential, just not as big a noob as rey. But both are pretty talented. I guess thats what im trying to say.
Also
Rewatching TPM now, i dont understand the hate. Ok Racial insensitivity with jar jar binks is bothering me, and I dislike the character overall. But the movie is good. Maybe not as good as the OT, but it has a lot going for it. Personally I love the design of the trade federation and the droids, and Qui gon, using jedi mind tricks on everyone, which i never noticed before is pretty cool. The story isn't that bad either. And tbh i dont mind the midichlorian debate. It gives a good bridge between religion and science in that regard. The force is a "faith" yet uses lightsabers which are scientifically advanced as their primary weapon. This creates a bridge, which I have no trouble with, it's not even that prevalent. Just a passing comment.
The shit with the Viceroys, Watto, and Jar Jar has always upset me, ignoring that the movie ain't that bad. It's decent, at least it's better than Clone Wars. Besides the acting of Natalie Portman which was somehow god awful in all three movies and Jake Lloyd outside of the pod raving scene, the movies is actually fine. Just like what I've noticed people have done with TFA people have their expectations set so high that they won't be reached by any stretch of the imagination and end up disappointed
Yeah, same.
Silphonica
Banned
Only because your two posts are sandwiched around mine, are you referring to me?
Are we seriously arguing on Finn being a bad character that doesn't do justice? He was probably my favorite, and I only say probably because they're all so good that it's hard to pick one.
He was a badass. And brave. And held his own against someone trained in the force in a saber duel. Did Kylo take him down? Yes. But Finn, who's only used it the second time, still landed a few bits as well. I don't understand how people can complain about him.
He was a badass. And brave. And held his own against someone trained in the force in a saber duel. Did Kylo take him down? Yes. But Finn, who's only used it the second time, still landed a few bits as well. I don't understand how people can complain about him.
megamerican
Member
Not getting all the love for this. Felt like a pretty perfunctory sequel / reboot. They hit all the required beats and that's about it.
It's incredibly lazy that the entire universe seems to have been reset with very little explanation. I also think they could have done something more interesting with the First Order other than making it a carbon copy of the Empire.
It's incredibly lazy that the entire universe seems to have been reset with very little explanation. I also think they could have done something more interesting with the First Order other than making it a carbon copy of the Empire.
Jest Chillin
Member
I both want Finn to be a Force user and also feel he *needs* to be a Force user.
Because, honestly, Luke needs to die in this trilogy. He's been setup too strongly in the OT and time has only made him more experienced. Like Yoda, he needs to impart key knowledge and go.
With that being the case, Rey needs more Force support. A rehash of a Sole Jedi User would be disappointing and a new character to support her would likewise be disappointing. Finn is already established and has all the key characteristics to be a solid Jedi contender.
Because, honestly, Luke needs to die in this trilogy. He's been setup too strongly in the OT and time has only made him more experienced. Like Yoda, he needs to impart key knowledge and go.
With that being the case, Rey needs more Force support. A rehash of a Sole Jedi User would be disappointing and a new character to support her would likewise be disappointing. Finn is already established and has all the key characteristics to be a solid Jedi contender.
LookAtMeGo
Member
What if Luke dies at the begining of the next movie before he gets to train her?
Jest Chillin
Member
Even more reason for Finn to eventually be revealed as Force Sensitive. If that happens though, I have no doubt that Maz will be revealed to know a lot more about the force than originally thought.
oh sorry, no. someone a few pages back. sorry for the confusion
sidenote: the gf got me Imperial Assault for xmas. I cant wait to play this game.
Here's my theory:
The movie talks about how Luke created a school to train a new generation of Jedi, and one of the students ruined everything by betraying the new Jedi to the dark side.
We're meant to assume it was Kylo Ren, but what if the student that ruined everything and fell to the dark side was *Rey*.
And Rey is Luke's daughter.
Luke defeats her, but he can't bear to kill her, so he wipes her memory, dumps her on Jakku, and force compels her to wait there forever.
Then out of guilt for screwing everything up, Luke vanishes, looking for the first Jedi temple to find out how to redeem himself.
The movie talks about how Luke created a school to train a new generation of Jedi, and one of the students ruined everything by betraying the new Jedi to the dark side.
We're meant to assume it was Kylo Ren, but what if the student that ruined everything and fell to the dark side was *Rey*.
And Rey is Luke's daughter.
Luke defeats her, but he can't bear to kill her, so he wipes her memory, dumps her on Jakku, and force compels her to wait there forever.
Then out of guilt for screwing everything up, Luke vanishes, looking for the first Jedi temple to find out how to redeem himself.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
This implies that child Rey was able to kill a shit ton of Jedi at a super young age. Now THAT would be OP. ._.
There weren't a lot of Jedi at that time, they were ALL trainees, except Luke.
Patrick Bateman
Member
This would be super cool!
Rey was no older than 8 when she was left on Jakku.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Idk their bodies looked like adults. Kylo was just as tall as he was in the film as well. Do we know exactly how much time between TFA and ROTJ because Luke Han and Leia are pretty old.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
Time-travelling-incest-mass-murderer-child-Rey
We need to go deeper.
We need to go deeper.
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