MoonsaultSlayer
Member
The bowcaster part.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Triggerhappytel
Member
Now that you mention it, the same thing happens in Star Trek 09, doesn't it? Yeah, this bothers me. Planets shouldn't be the same distance apart as our Earth and Moon - and if they were, the First Order would have destroyed the Resistance planet as well.
Different Republics.
neoism
Member
lol no the saber duels in this film where terrible... smh
I mean WHAT over half the people in the film didn't even know how... and Ren was just decent....
Which is logic. Because TFA is the set-up movie for the trilogy. There was no time to work with the chaos as what happens next is in a very short amount of time afterwards. The movie practically ends when the New Republic and the First Order are heavily damaged in a matter of days (a day?).
Let me guess, you've seen the movie just once. I hope.
Messypandas
Member
I really wish there was a duel between young Luke (with hood up) and Kylo in the rain flashback. I wanted a rain duel.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Nah, I'd say its more like this:
1. ESB
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2. TFA
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3.ANH - Honestly if we are going to call TFA a retread of ANH, than I'm going to be strait honest and say TFA is the better version. ANH drags, alot. Its a film thats stuck between a traditional film and a modern film in style and editing. Shots linger, dialogue is rough, the action pieces are rough and overal it just lacks polish. That is by no way taking away from its insane cultural impact, or its value as a film, both of which are WAY higher than TFA, but in terms of watchability, fun and production, TFA is just better (and thats to be expected, given the amount of quality, money and talent put into making it).
But hell, I'm also crazy and think the ROTJ is more fun than ANH and would rather watch it any day. I actually dont like watching ANH, it annoys me with how much it drags, Mark Hamil was at his worst and Harrison Ford was still figuring out how to act. Vader was nothing but a lapdog and lacked any depth. Tarkin and Obi Wan were the most interesting parts of the film.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I thought the lightsabre duel was fine at the end of TFA. It didn't seem heavily choreographed like the awful shit in the Prequel Trilogy, but it had a similar feel to the battles in TESB or ROTJ. I would need to watch it again to see how it stacks up to them though.
Lifejumper
Member
Nah it was one the best. Better than the prequels at least. What did you think about the ESB and ROTJ duels?
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I have seen it twice now.
I think its a good movie and some good star wars stuff, but i have some problems with it. Miles better than the prequel stuff. On some ways, better than ANH.
Everything felt rushed. The plot points, relationships, events. I personally felt nothing had rime to breathe. Like how these close friendships got forged seems off and how motivations got established. Plus the passage of time is vague.
I wish they would had dropped deathstar 2.0 plot or have it more of a background thing. If not. Put more time into why Finn left and the culture of the stormtroopers. And set a baseline of why being called a traitor would be so bad.
Ren. I thought he was really good till the mask came off. I was like wat on the first viewing. 2nd time was better. It was less whiney, but still whiney. Haha. That whole 3 man set up of relationship of power was weird. And i didn't buy that young guy in charge of everything.
It looked and sounded really good though.
and the acting was pretty good for rhe most part.
I think its a good movie and some good star wars stuff, but i have some problems with it. Miles better than the prequel stuff. On some ways, better than ANH.
Everything felt rushed. The plot points, relationships, events. I personally felt nothing had rime to breathe. Like how these close friendships got forged seems off and how motivations got established. Plus the passage of time is vague.
I wish they would had dropped deathstar 2.0 plot or have it more of a background thing. If not. Put more time into why Finn left and the culture of the stormtroopers. And set a baseline of why being called a traitor would be so bad.
Ren. I thought he was really good till the mask came off. I was like wat on the first viewing. 2nd time was better. It was less whiney, but still whiney. Haha. That whole 3 man set up of relationship of power was weird. And i didn't buy that young guy in charge of everything.
It looked and sounded really good though.
and the acting was pretty good for rhe most part.User 73706
Banned
As someone who's caught Episode 4 as a kid and then bits and pieces of the rest of the movies (and, well, all the plotlines and shit by proxy of pop culture), I really enjoyed TFA as a standalone movie while still respecting its connections to the past films. That being said, I don't feel particularly obligated to go back and see the rest of the series, especially with the state of all the rereleases / edits and whatnot.
In terms of EU I've seen, like, 7 or 8 episodes of The Clone Wars and I've seen the entirety of Tartakovsky's Clone Wars. TFA's basically the only Star Wars media I've seen that's been able to hold a candle to the latter. I just hope we get stuff like this in the next two films.
In terms of EU I've seen, like, 7 or 8 episodes of The Clone Wars and I've seen the entirety of Tartakovsky's Clone Wars. TFA's basically the only Star Wars media I've seen that's been able to hold a candle to the latter. I just hope we get stuff like this in the next two films.
neoism
Member
it wouldn't matter.... the ending saber fight in the snow forest wasn't anywhere near the best.. lol. The film barely had any lightsaber's, Ren's temper tantrums don't count... you guys should watch the older movies.. literally every other movie has a better one... ep1-3's were waaaay flashy and over the top but thats the point... I like in this one they're more faster fights but they are to fast(end to quick)....but it makes sense though because even Ren wasn't completely trained, and the other two had no training at all... but whateves
They actually looked like fighting with lightsabers instead of dancing around.
It's no Throne room but Kylo vs Rey was an awesome fight and one of the best IMO.
I love it. Its not about being highly-skilled with a light saber but more of just being much more "real". Brutal and emotional attacks as opposed to highly choreographed fast paced saber fights.
Out of curiosity what movie has your favorite light saber battle?
Actually, when you break things down and compare all elements, for all the similarities, TFA actually executes most things better than ANH. Overall, I say it's a better basis for the new trilogy than ANH was for its respective trilogy.
Storm Troopers actually come off as bad ass rather than idiots. The giant death laser scene shows the perspective from people on the planet. That gave it more impact than the Death Star test in ANH. The special effects benefit from a generous budget which ANH didn't have. Extras and secondary characters have better acting behind them. Battle scenes are grander. Fight scenes have better choreography. It's a more refined ANH.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Seems weird. Could've used it to wrangle up the Rathtars.
It is dehumanizing, but it's also very human. "One man is always dead -- And two million is always just a statistic."
Which leads me to--
Leia is our in to Alderaan. It's also the stated goal for our heroes. Once it's destroyed, we're left thinking, "Oh man, what are they going to do now? How are they going to stop that thing?" For Hosnian, it's just "How are they going to stop that thing?" I didn't find myself caring about the political upheaval. ( I still don't care.)
Now, I'm not saying that Alderaan is supposed to make us all emotional. It's not. I'm just saying that to me, Alderaan's destruction is more important than Hosnian's.
If it works for you, that's great. But for me, it took me out of the movie. When it showed those people, I was sitting there thinking "Why the hell should I care about any of these people?"
They were like the kid from Mass Effect 3. Just there to tug on the heartstrings, I guess. Which is fine, but it falls flat to me.
Setting up the next movie shouldn't come as a detriment to the current movie, in my opinion. If we got more time with the Republic -- hell, if the Resistance was the Republic, I could see it working better.
ROTS .... WTF is ROTS? Revenge of The greenScreen?
Man ... looking at all these behind-the-scenes photo it amazes me how much real-sets they've build for the Force Awakens. I mean, just compare The Force Awakens with Revenge of the Sith. Good god.
ROTS was the best Prequel Trilogy movie.
ESB was the best Original Trilogy movie.
We'll see in 3 years from now where TFA stands. I'm sure it'll be hard for Rian Johnson to top the succes of TFA though.
Man ... looking at all these behind-the-scenes photo it amazes me how much real-sets they've build for the Force Awakens. I mean, just compare The Force Awakens with Revenge of the Sith. Good god.
ROTS was the best Prequel Trilogy movie.
ESB was the best Original Trilogy movie.
We'll see in 3 years from now where TFA stands. I'm sure it'll be hard for Rian Johnson to top the succes of TFA though.
It's not a detriment, whatever is happening next from political point of view in the galaxy it happens after TFA ends. TFA was the story of finding Luke. We'll see what Episode VIII will be about.
TimHortons
Member
Finally saw it for the 1st time yesterday, its a very solid Star Wars movie. Wish I had not seen it in 3D though. Surprised I had nothing spoiled, thought Luke had a larger part than he did. Didn't re-watch any of the original trilogy beforehand or anything. But Abrams got the tone down of those ones. Great overall.
neoism
Member
See I do agree with this but for first time viewing in the theater it WAS fucking epic...and was the point... the more to the point fighting is better, but it wasn't as epic as the others at all...Ren was bashing his stomach(lol) I was like what the fuck is his doing. fighting two people thats never lightsaber dueled before...one of them not even a jedi.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Ren hitting his stomach (pain control or loosening his muscles or that shot of adrenalin) was the best thing. It felt human to me. The first time he did it looked stupid. The second time, it felt like something that had to be done in the moment.
Tomasoares
Member
Sorry, I meant ESB lol
Being busy handling the bowcaster wound in him?
Edit: also, have you just said that the prequels saber fights were better than TFA? Because now it all makes sense. The pattern.
Mendax
Member
been doing some reading and apparently the new republic's government rotates between systems and they pursue a disarmament policy as a sign of goodwill towards potential members and to not repeat mistakes of the past. Apparently they thought the imperial remnants to be not dangerous.
Leia disagreed and broke from the new republic to continue the fight, hence "resistance"
interesting but should defo have been explained in the movie imo
Leia disagreed and broke from the new republic to continue the fight, hence "resistance"
interesting but should defo have been explained in the movie imo
If the duel in this was terrible then everything sans the Luke/Vader fights were downright garbage.
Sorry to break it to you but nostalgia has perverted your perception. The choreographing in the OT looked more like how kids would fight with swords(especially ANH) and the PT looked like they were creating synchronized dances. The OT's weight came from Luke/Vader relationship and the build up.
Atraveller
Banned
What are you talking about? The lightsaber duels in TFA were amazing! They are raw and powerful yet well choreographed at the same time, perfect balance of OT and PT.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Well, Ren had just taken a massive blaster round to the stomach, and despite his training I imagine his concentration was fucked because of the pain.
As for the fights in the PT - I quite like the one at the end of TPM for the spectacle, but really hated all of the battles in both the other two. The fight between Annie and Obi-Wan was a fucking joke, especially when they both lose their sabres and start kicking each other.
But I'm still confused as in that case you're listed ESB twice!
Working through the pain of the big fucking hole in his side?
And Finn seems to have atleast some level of weapons training that helped him last all of 30 seconds. And Rey's connection to the force atleast helped keep her alive long enough to play defensively until she finally got pissed at the end and channeled the dark side.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Yeah, all of that should've been in the movie. They probably didn't want too many of the old guard to be in it at once, though.
Interfectum
Member
There's actually a deleted scene explaining some of that. JJ presumably cut it because Leia would appear earlier in the movie before the big reveal between her and Han...
IMO he should have left it in because the New Republic/Resistance/First Order stuff needed a bit more explanation so we could get some grounding in this new world and the payoff seeing the New Republic exploding would have had more weight.
Man im afraid you're missing the entire point.
You may have thought those were epic lightsaber fights in the earlier films but ultimately they were completely void of any real emotion. Its no longer a brutal real emotional fight when they are doing 20 hit combos in a perfectly choriographed fight sequence. Its just not right.
Take for example this fight with Luke and Vader:
This is as basic as it gets but its so powerful. You can feel the emotion from Luke being SO angry and just wailing on Vader. Its perfect.
Then you have Obi Wan vs Darth Maul MOMENTS after Qui gon jin is KILLED and you get this ballet.
Its emotionless and obnoxious.
So again, I think you're missing the point and purpose of the fighting style in TFA.
And the fact you dont get why he was doing this either tells me a lot.
Interfectum
Member
Yeah the prequel lightsaber dances were awful.
neoism
Member
the over the top ones.... TPM and ROTS.... both I agree are over the top and a little too long but JJ should have found a middle ground and had the ending duel in the forest be a little longer... I love JJ's realness in his films IM3 is still my favorite of all the IM movies...but he fucked up alot of stuff in this one playing it too safe. He was more than likely given less control over the film than his other ones.
plus just because the second trilogy was bad, the context of the fights matters also... not just if its more real and less choreographed...its not the best because he is fighting to untrained fighters that haven't even dueled before, and he still doesn't kill them in seconds because he himself isn't fully trained... plus even though he was doing for adrenaline bro pounding his wound was funny to me...
Tomasoares
Member
Holy shit!
Okay, I meant:
ESB > TFA > ANH > ROTJ > ROTS > TPM > AOTC
Sorry lol
Yeah, you don't care about Alderaan. You just care about the heroes. You're framing the destruction of millions of lives as a pragmatic inconvenience, not a loss of humanity. Which might be fine, but the situation of the Hosian System was a humanistic loss as far as the movie was concerned. The reason you should care is out of basic human empathy. Their loss wasn't terrible because of any political upheaval or loss of destination for the characters. It was terrible because people died.
neoism
Member
Man im afraid you're missing the entire point.
You may have thought those were epic lightsaber fights in the earlier films but ultimately they were completely void of any real emotion. Its no longer a brutal real emotional fight when they are doing 20 hit combos in a perfectly choriographed fight sequence. Its just not right.
Take for example this fight with Luke and Vader:
This is as basic as it gets but its so powerful. You can feel the emotion from Luke being SO angry and just wailing on Vader. Its perfect.
Then you have Obi Wan vs Darth Maul MOMENTS after Qui gon jin is KILLED and you get this ballet.
Its emotionless and obnoxious.
So again, I think you're missing the point and purpose of the fighting style in TFA.
ok
Interfectum
Member
Honestly, and I'm not excusing TFA, but I think the next two movies are going to be filled with duels and lightsabers that I believe this film was more ment to introduce characters than to get right into dueling. If anything having lightsabers in this movie was a little forced.
Lol please get a grip. I couldn't give a crap who helms the projects. I was excited about what JJ would do after the Star Wars reboot, I thought he could get that Star Wars Vibe, turns out I was wrong. It was a mediocre film. You can enjoy it without shitting on other peoples opinions. If TFA is so great it will stand up on its own without the crap from its fans.
Mendax
Member
that sounds amazing, i hope that will be in the eventual director's cut!
having lightsabers in this movie wasnt the problem, characters being able to duel without any training is
Interfectum
Member
Luckily it does stand on its own. Box Office success, repeat viewings, highly reviewed, my friends and family loved it and it gets lots of love online (along with the critiques).
TFA was a middle ground.
It is more choreographed then the originals but retains the weight and emotion of the OT while stylistically being more then glorified kids playing swords. Like in a ANH.
But it seems like you actually enjoyed the awful dance numbers of the prequels. So I think you just need to come to terms that you like what most people hated and thus you're always going to be on the outside of the consensus on this one.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I cared about Alderaan because it is a pragmatic inconvenience. We are experiencing these stories through the protagonists. Loss of life just by itself isn't enough. We have to see how it affects our heroes. I don't feel Hosnian's destruction really affected our heroes' goals.
Escape Goat
Member
TFA duel didn't do anything for me because there was no emotional investment in the duel. Ren was fighting simply not to die. These characters didn't even know each other. One should have died the moment he picked up the saber and the other should have right after. ESB and RotJ had far more emotionally invested characters with a lot more subtext to the duels. I don't care if its choreographed to extreme degree more than whats going on inside and outside of the characters themselves.
That makes all of the prequel duels meaningless. Original Trilogy weren't well choreographed but there was a lot of meaning to each one. TFA was somewhere in between the two.
That makes all of the prequel duels meaningless. Original Trilogy weren't well choreographed but there was a lot of meaning to each one. TFA was somewhere in between the two.
Interfectum
Member
Eh, I don't have a problem with that. Both Finn and Rey were proficient in using weapons before picking up a lightsaber. Even in the Rey and Kylo duel you could see her using the lightsaber almost as a staff at certain points.
Atraveller
Banned
So..."this thing is good, except the bad parts"?
neoism
Member
opinions how do they work.... I seen them in the theater and they was epic as shit first time viewing them... like I said I get and understand JJ's film he is one of my fav directors... I love his realism.. but the context of that fight and I legit found Ren's hitting his wound funny.. the fight didn't do it for me... I haven't seen the other movies in years and I just watched the duels on youtube... you can hate over choreographed fights all you want.. so do I but the first time i see them in the theater I was hyped and it was awesome...
Also Ren with all his temper tantrums throughout the film he was joke to me at this point....I truly hope he isn't ridiculous in the next films after he is fully trained...
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