-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
First they say Luke would be the big baddie. They were wrong.
Now they want Luke to die.
Please go away.
I am glad Han died.
Now they want Luke to die.
Please go away.
I am glad Han died.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Escape Goat
Member
Jesus.
After seeing how much she fantasized about the Resistance complete with pilot voodoo doll and memorabilia, and how she heard of the Jedi, I think we're supposed to assume that combined with what she saw with Kylo Ren she did the Jedi Mindtrick.
Liquidsnake
Banned
This was interesting to me.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Be like Yoda, he will
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Rey's accomplishment is that she was able to survive on a desert planet by herself since she was 6-7 years of age.
Unlike Anakin or Luke she had to grow up pretty fast in order to not only make a living, but to defend herself from any threats that may come her way.
Combine that with the patience and hope that her family would return, Rey's inner strength was leagues ahead of Anakin's and Luke's.
The force doesn't work better depending on how strong you are. And with Kylo Ren's crash course training, Rey used that flight or right instinct she's honed throughout the years to not only survive A jedi mind grape, but to turn it around and use it on her attacker.
Despite what the prequels told you this his how to get the most out of the Force.
Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.
I want Luke to live, unless you mean he dies the same way Anakin "did" when he went by the name Darth Vader
Luke Skywalker is dead, there is only Darth Joker
That's honestly very true. From there if you open yourself up to it, it will guide you and help you grow.
DragonSworne
Banned
And Finn.
StopMakingSense
Member
Child soldiers.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Finn's going to be too busy wrecking Phasma Fett
I haven't read any of the debates about Rey's character before going into this thread, these were just my first impressions. I'm also not necessarily saying that her progression felt unearned because of what we've seen or not seen in the other movies. In the context of this movie I personally felt that everything came too easy to her. That's all.
Yup, Luke demonstrated that in ANH.
Rey had the added benefit of getting worked over by Kylo repeatedly. He was inadvertently teaching her what to do.
Future PhaZe
Member
Finn's parentage will be revealed to be Mandalorian in nature and he'll be wearing the modified remains of Boba Fett's armor as he fights Phasma on the bridge of a Super Star Destroyer careening towards a black hole
with one functioning escape pod remaining
my uncle works for disney
with one functioning escape pod remaining
my uncle works for disney
Has there been any word about an eventual director's cut on BR? I can't help but think that there are back story moments of Rey that will make her "sudden moments of power" seem more reasonable. Has JJ Abrams ever mentioned having to cut down his release for theater distribution?
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Just rewatched it, found myself not being as nit picky as the first time. Script felt tighter this time.
Only complaint I have, is that they use almost only action beats to propel the characters and story. After they leave Jakku in the Falcon, it would've been nice to have a slower and more quiet section that would last until they fight the empire at Maz' palace.
Also, I have a hard time watching anything with Chewie, as my dog was a bearded collie that looked and sounded like Chewie. Seeing him lose Han just breaks my heart infinitely.
Only complaint I have, is that they use almost only action beats to propel the characters and story. After they leave Jakku in the Falcon, it would've been nice to have a slower and more quiet section that would last until they fight the empire at Maz' palace.
Also, I have a hard time watching anything with Chewie, as my dog was a bearded collie that looked and sounded like Chewie. Seeing him lose Han just breaks my heart infinitely.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Special Edition is likely not coming. Abrams has never done one before, either.
Yea he said in an interview that there's somewhere between 10 or 20 minutes of cut footage, and that a lot of it should end up on BR release.
It would have been a much more interesting movie if Lucas had incorperated that into the the prequels more. That the reason Anakin was the instrument to salvation to the force would have been not because he was tricked by Palpatine, but because the Jedi Order had become stagnant and corrupt without intentional malice. It was a more subtle kind of evil, where they start from a good perspective "Don't let attachments control you" and have moved to the other extreme wherein the order dehumanized it's Jedi by forbidding basic social functions. Anakin being seduced by the dark side could have been him being driven insane by his desire to have simple normal relations. As a result, his fall to the dark side wouldn't have been his inability to save his wife from death by childbirth (a very silly concern in the technological wonderland that SW exists in) but his being cast as a social pariah by the Jedi order for having the audacity to have a normal human relationship.
There are some hinks with the idea that would ahve to be worked out, like the fact that this cast Yoda and Obiwan in a bad light, but honestly, there is no need to idolize Yoda to being the master of all things good. Even he could be blind to problems inherent in a system that he is a part of for so long. Still, I like it as an idea, because it places Vader in the both sympathetic and damning position of being both the hero and the villain. There's no way anyone wouldn't sympathize with a person fights back against the system for basic human relations, but also no way that anyone could fully support destruction of so many people.
LegendofLex
Member
It's all there already if you want to read into it; people just often refuse to analyze the prequels' subtexts with any depth because they'd rather complain about how badly written the script is, how the poor directing choices led to an overabundance of bad CGI and phoned-in acting from most of the cast, and midichlorians/lightsaber fights.
edit: for reference, I'm talking about real diehard anti-prequel fans. A good example of this kind of mentality is believing that TPM is completely irrelevant and doesn't need to be watched to get the full scope of Anakin's fall.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I doubt you see anything explanatory along those lines. The novel goes into a little greater detail on things, but nothing that explains Rey's powers, and I imagine that any extra content would probably be things that the novel covers (probably see some deleted scenes with Leia prior to the Han reunion, maybe more with Maz after the First Order attack, and perhaps Poe's rescue on Jakku). Though I note that when she's doing the Jedi mind trick, she isn't thinking of it in that way. I could be mistaken, but that only time she actively thinks in terms of "the Force" is that final confrontation with Ren, after he says it (which is when she repeats it and blisses out for a moment). Until then, she's just reacting and experimenting.
I've said before that it's a bit too "fast forward" for my likling and differs from Luke in that Luke, for whatever amount of time period, had a living and present mentor to at least guide his efforts as he's first being introduced to the Force, but whatever. I've also said I love the Rey character, too.
It's also there in the Clone Wars. There's actually a very interesting speech which one Jedi gives in the latter parts of the Clone Wars about how the Jedi have become villains in the conflict.
I said this earlier in the thread, but my BIGGEST issue with Sith was how Anakin "turned". He goes to tell Windu that Palpatine is the Sith lord. He fears Windu will kill Palpatine. So far I'm still rolling with it.
Anakin then literally cuts off Windu's hand. Palpatine then kills Windu. Afterwards Anakin literally feels regret and remorse for what he just did. "What have I done?".
Not a minute later he's bowing on his knees accepting the name Darth Vader.
"The Jedi have betrayed the republic"=Palpatine.
"I agree master"-Anakin
Like WTF!?
Ragnorok64
Member
Is that scene highlighted anywhere?
Luke better not die. As already stated, we've had our token death with Han. We now know that no one is off limits, and anyone could die. That's all they needed to build suspense in future films. I want Luke to survive and fuck shit up. Kylo really going to be the guy that wipes out the entire cast of the first films? He's that legit? If Vader couldn't do it, please don't have Kylo be the one that does.
I would love to see a true Jedi/Padewan relationship between Luke/Rey
I would love to see a true Jedi/Padewan relationship between Luke/Rey
friskykillface
Banned
yeah i forgot about that, he hasn't seen it since he lost it in empire and its been like 30+ years or idk for the film since hes seen it
for Rey to show it him must have made Luke SHOOK
luke the god is ready to wreck fools
I've seen episodes of Thundercats with better writing. And acting.
Well, that's because the subtext collapses like a house of cards the moment it's put under scrutiny.
Yeah, an emotionless Jedi order would be a neat idea, but as Plinkett points out, Obiwan, the 'proper jedi', smiles and laughs and gets annoyed and is sarcastic and forms bonds (primarily with anakin, but other scenes imply him being good friends with others as well) and gets flat out fucking pissed off....so bonds of strong friendship and expressing extreme anger are within the Jedi philosophy, but love leads to the dark side?
As it is, the subtext we're looking at is clearly a happy accident that could have lead to a more interesting story if it were nurtured, but it clearly wasn't in mind of the writing, so we have what we have.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I remember seeing that and just getting a headache at how stupid it was. It wasn't even like a trick to get Windu to trust him. He was genuine.
One of the reasons why Clone Wars is awesome. That show is so good especially the later seasons.
Oh and one thing I really loved in Force Awakens is how force abilities and the lightsaber fights look. Everything has so much weight behind it, there's no floaty, pretty choreography like in the prequels. The scene where Ren stops the blaster shot in midair is just awesome.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So it's not a token death, then.
If it serves the story Johnson's writing to end Luke, then he should end.
Being too precious about fictional characters sucks the life out of the fiction.
Ragnorok64
Member
I was expecting something a bit more, substantial. Maybe it has more weight in context.
Future PhaZe
Member
Kylo's visible annoyance with having to even bother batting away Reys blaster shots is just amazing
I think it has very little to do with people being too precious about fictional characters and has more to do with Luke dying would be boring and predictable considering almost all of the other notable characters in Star Wars have died off by now.
Yeah it makes more sense if you watch the entire arc.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
How? It seems more to me like people are reacting negatively to the idea because it hadn't occurred to them it could happen in the next two movies.
They're being precious about Luke dying because he's Luke Skywalker. There's nothing that says he can't earn his death (however that death might come) in the next two movies worth of story.
This reminds me, have they used the word Padawan anywhere in new material? Hopefully it's been lost with the old jedi order, I never liked it. Apprentice is so much better.
Vincent Alexander
Member
THREE
WHOLE
MOVIES
FOR
THIS
MOMENT
Seriously. We were watching prequels to learn about this great hero's downfall. This moment. And we got that scene.
Twilight Gap
Member
think Lucas wanted a reason for Anakin to be loyal to the Emperor until the end, seeing as how he cast away everything and eventually lost everything except the Emperor.
But it could have been more interesting if the Jedi actually turned against Anakin and interefered with his relationship, which would paint him as more of a tragic hero and less of... well an idiot. Clone Wars looks like Lucas almost wanted to go that direction with how the Jedi
treated Ahsoka.
To be honest, I wanted to see Anakin and Windu fight after Windu found out about Padme.
Again, it's boring and predictable. The main character dying some noble death is a trope that's been done to death at this point in Star Wars. Hell, three of the main characters from the original trilogy (Kenobi, Vader, and now Han) have all died this way. Let's do something different.
heliosRAzi
Banned
If they kill Luke in Ep 8, it would feel like they are only killing off older characters for the shock of it. Of course, they could set the story up in such a way that makes sense. If they hold off on it until Ep 9, I think it might be better.
And we have to remember that we just lost Han, so it feels like it's crazy to lose Luke and Leia, too.
And we have to remember that we just lost Han, so it feels like it's crazy to lose Luke and Leia, too.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
How do you know it's "boring and predictable" when you don't even know the particulars of scenes that nobody knows whether they've even been written yet?
Besides which, Luke Skywalker isn't the main character anymore. He's support.
You're talking about "tropes" that don't even apply in the way you're applying them.
PrivateWHudson
Member
That's why I rank AotC as the best of the PT. Episode I was crushing due to there being so much hype. Episode III had so much riding on the transition to Vader and they fumbled it. At least with Episode II the expectations were low and I could sit back and enjoy the Sonic Charge scene with Boba Fett and OB1.
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