I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one I guess. I think Star Wars is abusing death as a dramatic element too often and there are plenty of examples in entertainment where using a story element so much it has a negative effect. I'd also argue that averaging one death per movie when your 7 movies in is too much (especially when most of them are main characters)
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one I guess. I think Star Wars is abusing death as a dramatic element too often and there are plenty of examples in entertainment where using a story element so much it has a negative effect. I'd also argue that averaging one death per movie when your 7 movies in is too much (especially when most of them are main characters)
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, the bolded is mostly what I'm trying to get at, although the whole paragraph sums up the core of the argument really well.
Such a great scene. So much is said with absolutely no dialog at all. Both Daisy and Mark are going to have so much chemistry in the next film(s) I think.
Anakin cries after killing the Separatist leaders on Mustafa. That's about it for conflict in him, though.
FriendlyGoat
Member
Without any knowledge of what they'll actually do, I still feel confident in promising you they will not use the remote robot in any film. BB-8 is full of too much character and requires finesse for emoting that will not be feasibly or reliably achievable by remote. The human element is necessary for his character.
Yup. You can speculate so much from that scene alone. Based solely on their expressions.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Thank you. I'll have to read it all when home, but I'm already loving the way it is written. This part in particular just made me smile:
Couldn't. Agree. More.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but what a missed opportunity that the baton trooper that fought Finn wasn't Captain Phasma. It would have been the perfect place to give her the one bad ass moment she needed. I've only seen the movie once so far but was there any reason why it couldn't have been (or slightly tweaked to make it so)?
WordAssassin
Member
That makes a lot of sense. I just looked up some videos of the little Sphereo one and although the giant one they brought out on stage is obviously about a million times more fluid and expressive than the little one, you're right that he needs the extra finesse to emote and get his character across properly.
Still super cool that they made one though, I imagine he'll see a lot of use at premieres and such. Wouldn't surprise me if they stuck him in the parks like they did with the Wall-E they made too.
LegendofLex
Member
Yeah, I'm definitely with you 100%. I don't tend to see the bolded sentiment trotted out by people, though. It's more often "the PT sucks and I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist." While they really are mediocre-to-bad films, I think most people ruin them more than they were actually ruined through the way they approach them.
Yeah, I suppose you're right. I fixated on that because it's a pretty giant piece of the "why the Jedi failed" puzzle, IMO - specifically, why they fail as moral paragons + why they failed to reach Anakin - but, yeah, that's not what we were originally talking about. I should have clarified in my original response that "there's a lot to discover in the PT if you read between the lines," not simply stated "it's there if you look for it" as if I'm necessarily endorsing the specific interpretation I was responding to.
When I have time I'll try to revisit this discussion and recap everything that I think is clearly deliberate.
I think they needed Phasma as the means for the characters to lower the shields on Starkiller, so having her get taken out earlier wouldn't have worked, and having her get taken out only to reappear on Starkiller and get taken out again would have probably been weird.
The story in the PT could have been relatively good had Lucas given the scripts to a few other writers/editors who could have polished things up and filtered out some of the really shitty bits of it. Some of the ideas that went into the prequel trilogy story could have been really good, but Lucas is honestly a really bad writer and director when left unchecked.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Well I was thinking the end of the fight could be tweaked with her getting wounded or knocked out (and making that clear). Though I agree having her subdued so easy later would have been weird (though you could blame that on her getting wounded).
brandonh83
Banned
I think he's always been a great storyteller despite his dialogue skills, but I can separate those two things.
mugoldeneagle03
Member
This is why I knew he was going to die the second I heard the original cast was involved. It really seems like he hates Star Wars, or what it's become. It's kind of sad.
Unfortunately his attitude & my good guess completely made his death scene and the scenes leading up to it completely numb to me. It was like "Ok this might happen, alright this is going to happen, aaannndddd it's over."
I felt no emotional ties with anyone in the movie during that moment. Except for maybe Chewie. And even then I imagined he was screaming "why is it happening like this"
Idk. I feel like I'm ranting. Either way I'm ok with Hans death just not the way it went down.
And for the record my original guess was he and Chewie would sacrifice themselves both, in the Falcon, to save the new characters or the Rebels. Which would still have been better with what we got IMO
Randolph Freelander
Member
I saw a recent interview clip with Harrison Ford (it might have been with Fallon, but I'm not sure) where he talked about the original trilogy with Lucas writing and directing and their need to push back, and I thought how that must have been missed with the prequel trilogy. To paraphrase, he would say "George, you can write this, but you can't say it!" And he said to writers, "do me a favor, move your lips while you're writing" (to see if it comes out well). From the behind-the-scenes stuff available with the prequel trilogy DVD releases, it almost seems like Lucas was surrounded by a bunch of "yes men" who weren't able to (or perhaps didn't try to) push back on some of his ideas.
I believe that Ford in the same interview went on to say that Lucas wasn't a fan of the "I know" line, even up to a preview screening where he had Ford sit beside him just so he could deliver an "I told you so" if it didn't go over well.
The planet's name is Ahch-To?
B-but Rakata Prime...
Wait, what?
They better not be fucking with the KotOR 1 and 2 lore's. SWtoR can go suck an ass, too.
CloudyTuba
Member
How did the Resistance get those detailed plans of the Starkiller? Was that covered in the movie?
Seems like they just found out about it and two minutes later they're dissecting a detailed schematic of the precinct 47 thermal oscillator, and the only thing Finn contributed was giving it that name.
What did I miss?
Seems like they just found out about it and two minutes later they're dissecting a detailed schematic of the precinct 47 thermal oscillator, and the only thing Finn contributed was giving it that name.
What did I miss?
I started rewatching the prequel DVD making-of featurettes and they're hilarious. Lucas did a better job at making a Spinal Tap-esque spin-off than than he did trying to make the Star Wars prequels. The Episode I featurette in particular ... everyone sat around a table debating on how much money they wanted to spend on Jar Jar. Lucas said it'd be cheaper to use an actor in a suit and just superimpose the head or replace the actor in post-production if it didn't work. It immediately transitions to Ahmed Best in the middle of the Tunisian desert in a latex Jar Jar suit.
Anyways ... yeah, it's weird, but when I was younger, I loved these extras. I still do (in general) but for some reason, I was enamored by everything they did in Star Wars.
"Reconnaissance." We don't get details. Honestly they are not needed either.
Inferno313
Banned
They already said those games aren't canon though... I don't know why you'd be surprised.
excelsiorlef
Member
Recon ship scanned the planet and was left unharmed because the FO then followed it back to discover where Leia's base was.
Blue Ninja
Member
Technically, it's all non-canon. Well, they put Korriban in the Clone Wars and just said its name had changed over thousands of years. Maybe they can do the same for Rakata Prime.
Ragnorok64
Member
Are the Sepratists' motives ever really expounded on?
Ultimately, I realize it's Sidious playing both sides but what convinces systems to side one way or the other?
Ultimately, I realize it's Sidious playing both sides but what convinces systems to side one way or the other?
Wow, this is crazy good and fun!
I thought he would sleep walk through the role myself. To my surprise it felt genuine and that there was emotion coming from him. Not to say he did the best job ever but..it he did it good.
I had no problem with the death. A lot of people were bound to be upset. I knew that. I remember the pure anger and venom that happened when Chewbecaa died in the novels. It was madness. So yeah I knew that one of the main characters dying from the OT would be a lot for some to get through and indeed I heard one girl say she almost cried at that scene upon leaving. I read other stories where they did when it happened.
Too many people want the heroes to die pure heroic deaths and it doesn't always work that way. To go out in a blaze of glory. Sure it may feel more satisfying some times but some times it really is just catering to the fans. Han died doing what he could trying to help save lives by shutting down the place and getting back his son. He died believing what he was doing was right.
I can't find fault with it.
Seeing how Empire/First Order is taking history lessons from the nazis, it was one of Hitler's biggest obsession to have the biggest weapon of them all. A lot of energy and resources went into these kind of weapons that didn't help one bit in the end. It's part of the obsession for power/megalomania.
^ I thought this was a nice moment with Rey.
This is another example where the facial expressions are top notch. JJ has really put a big accent on this.
It's something that JJ's noticed since the auditions. That she could play whatever emotion and action he asked from her. This links also with what I said above, she's capable of expressing so much through facial expressions. The mind battle with Kylo is epic for both actors from this point of view.
We have seen that she's fascinated with stories about the past (the pilot helmet) and she knows about Jedi, so it's possible to know about the mind trick. But we also see how everything she knows about the force she learns directly from what Kylo does or tries to do to her and around her, including controlling the mind of others (hers in this case). Kylo actively teaches her by case studies more than Obi Wan teaches Luke in ANH. The only other bit that she learns about the force is Maz's advice to close her eyes and let the force in and that she applies in the final fight against Kylo.
Power and $$, like everything else.
Trade Federation did not like Republic taxes, Sidious fanned the flames. TF goes to war with Republic, attracts fringe systems to join them thus the Separatists are formed. Clone Wars animation goes a little bit into the politics of the whole thing. Sidious ensures that the war escalates through both sides in order to destabilize the galaxy and take total control.
Twilight Gap
Member
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
I figured after having Kylo Ren invade her mind (which she eventually reversed on him and pulled some of his thoughts), she realized she must also be able to peer into James Bonds brain and influence him. Seems logical that in that moment of desperation she'd try to use that newfound power on the stormtrooper.
This much is obvious to a point, but the entire reason for the Trade Federation in Episode I is nonsense.
Rey seems well aware what the Jedi were. It's just a matter of whether or not they were actually real that is in dispute.
crisdecuba
Member
Has anyone here seen the movie at one of those IMAX theaters where the screen is domed / curved? Apparently that is one of the few true IMAX screens in our area and a friend wants to see it there. Is it a bad movie watching experience?
Are we really going to push this meme?
RIP loudness wars
Liquidsnake
Banned
^ I thought this was a nice moment with Rey.
I can watch her face till the end of time.
Oneperfectshot has some behind the scenes photos from the director of photography. I'd seen it mentioned that TFA was the first Star Wars film to use lightsabers that were lit, so they could capture the light sources on the actors and environments during filming, rather than add all of it during post. You an see that here:
Well, we stopped pushing the compressor.
CloudyTuba
Member
Oneperfectshot has some behind the scenes photos from the director of photography. I'd seen it mentioned that TFA was the first Star Wars film to use lightsabers that were lit, so they could capture the light sources on the actors and environments during filming, rather than add all of it during post. You an see that here:
I really appreciated seeing the saber light reflect off the actors and scenery. Makes them look a lot more real and it really bothered me in the PT. May we never go back to those dark times when the giant glowsticks somehow cast zero light.
CharmingCharlie
Member
Oneperfectshot has some behind the scenes photos from the director of photography. I'd seen it mentioned that TFA was the first Star Wars film to use lightsabers that were lit, so they could capture the light sources on the actors and environments during filming, rather than add all of it during post. You an see that here:
Love seeing this stuff and it was something I missed with the prequels. All the behind the scene stuff with the prequels seemed to always be actors in front of a damn green screen.
excelsiorlef
Member
Oneperfectshot has some behind the scenes photos from the director of photography. I'd seen it mentioned that TFA was the first Star Wars film to use lightsabers that were lit, so they could capture the light sources on the actors and environments during filming, rather than add all of it during post. You an see that here:
That explains why they looked so different and yet so much better in TFA
Doesn't that also include the OT lol
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I believe Ford wanted Han to die in ROTJ because Han basically has no real purpose in that film after his rescue scene. I don't think he wanted Han to die just for the lulz or because he hates Star Wars or anything.
30yearsofhurt
Member
RIP loudness wars
Rey just went from great to godlike.
Oneperfectshot has some behind the scenes photos from the director of photography. I'd seen it mentioned that TFA was the first Star Wars film to use lightsabers that were lit, so they could capture the light sources on the actors and environments during filming, rather than add all of it during post. You an see that here:
It really showed in the movie. I loved how it affected things.
Couldn't help but think how good the lightsabers looked in the movie when clashing or braced against each other. And then how badly that it still looks in the OT SE versions. Seriously how did that not get fixed proper wise?!
CloudyTuba
Member
Definitely does.
It just bothered me in the PT more because I figured that many years later they'd be able to accomplish it easier. I remember before the prequels came out thinking "finally, now that special effects and technology have come so far, the lightsabers will actually cast light."
And then they still didnt except for on CG characters and the odd closeup.
Ive been waiting for this day a long time.
Comfort Jones
Banned
But like....who is...enforcing these taxes? This "trade federation" has a giant robot army already like who exactly is telling them how it is? Also why are they called the trade federation? Are they in control of trade?
I'm still confused. Also any eu nonsense means nothing to me, the movies should explain who the main villains are.
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