PeskyToaster
Member
We haven't even seen those new walkers in action that are off to the side in the parade shot.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Epic
ahhh yes, how could we forget? the moment when kylo gives rey 2 minutes to gather her thoughts while a light saber is inches from her face.
i think the last dragon did it better when bruce lee roy attained the glow, while the shogun of harlem was drowning him.
:\
Fancy Clown
Member
Only one of my friends who saw the movie didn't like Kylo. But that friend is a goober anyway.
Kylo is one of the best parts of the movie. He's the rare action/blockbuster villain that is treated like an actual character rather than a plot device, and is given the screentime and depth to let Driver put in a performance that breathes him to life beyond something that is just there to sell action figures and hold a red lightsaber just so the good guys can strike it with their blue one.
He wasn't trying to, and wasn't order to, kill her though. So yeah, he tried to get her to give up when she was most vulnerable in the fight.
Kylo is one of the best parts of the movie. He's the rare action/blockbuster villain that is treated like an actual character rather than a plot device, and is given the screentime and depth to let Driver put in a performance that breathes him to life beyond something that is just there to sell action figures and hold a red lightsaber just so the good guys can strike it with their blue one.
He wasn't trying to, and wasn't order to, kill her though. So yeah, he tried to get her to give up when she was most vulnerable in the fight.
Shuggananas
Banned
He specifically offers her to join him, he thinks he's in a position where she can't do anything and has to either join him or die
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
He like many other villains were trying to make her join him when she was the most vulnerable.
Couple of recent articles:
Plagiarizing "Star Wars": The Problems with "The Force Awakens" (RogerEbert.com)
The George Awakens (The New Yorker)
Plagiarizing "Star Wars": The Problems with "The Force Awakens" (RogerEbert.com)
The George Awakens (The New Yorker)
How do you not get this?
Future PhaZe
Member
Oneperfectshot has some behind the scenes photos from the director of photography. I'd seen it mentioned that TFA was the first Star Wars film to use lightsabers that were lit, so they could capture the light sources on the actors and environments during filming, rather than add all of it during post. You an see that here:
fantastic idea--rotoscoping must have been an absolute tedious nightmare though!
excelsiorlef
Member
I'm so over using TFA to redeem the prequels and Lucas. It's a ridiculous narrative born out of cynicism and misplaced nostalgia.
It's like some people are really pissed that someone proved that there can be a good Star Wars movie outside the OT and that ruins whatever theories they had in support of PT.
excelsiorlef
Member
That Ebert.com article is embarrassing, especially when it argues it's a retread while also wishing Ren was more Maul or Dooku aka badass but non descript like Vader in ANH.
Also to imply that these new characters haven't connected with an audience is ridiculous
lol I can't get enough of these "b-but the prequels were at least trying something different" articles!
lol yes yes pregnant at-home Padme is VERY in keeping with sixties ideals!
There's a superb New Yorker article about Harold Ramis around the release of THE ICE HARVEST that does a great job suggesting how movies like ANIMAL HOUSE, CADDYSHACK, and VACATION passed the authority-questioning mindset of the hippie movement to Gen-X and Y. So I guess what I'm saying is I have no fucking clue what the ideals of the blockbuster era even means other than putting a nice button on lots of conjecture.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/04/19/comedy-first
Does he mean the lifeless fight scene starring two morons vs. a non-character? The last fight in TFA blows the Maul fight out of the water. At least that one has characters I, you know, care about.
I blame you for compelling me to read that. I thought it was something actually written by Ebert
edit: yes, I would have found that remarkable -_-
"The villains will be after the same things as their predecessors more or less, but in this case they are made too look (not to subtlety) like Nazis."
:-/
Was this even edited at all, or is it like "Forbes contributor"-tier?
brandonh83
Banned
That duel is terrific. The problem here is that the TFA one is also terrific. They're just different in approach. Basically no solid arguments being made, just cynicism born from popularity.
Kylo Ren vs Rey
From a choreography standpoint the Maul fight in Phantom Menace was neat but it was a fight between 3 characters the audience had basically no connection to and the fight itself is somewhat pointless because it has almost no bearing on the fight to save Naboo. Plus there's no follow up to the whole "did we kill the master or the apprentice". The Darth Maul fight is simultaneously the best prequel duel yet also the most pointless one.
Fancy Clown
Member
^ Roger Ebert is no longer alive...
Hey, I added the '.com'!
Agreed - the Maul duel is fun to watch but doesn't have the personal, emotional stakes that Kylo vs. Finn and especially Rey has.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Davey Cakes
Member
I actually have a newfound appreciation for the Prequels, at least on a conceptual level.
It's getting ridiculous how much people are willing to either sweep those movies under the rug, or how much they're willing to try and "redeem" those movies and knock down TFA in the process. At this point I really think people need to expand their minds a bit and be more considerate as to what Star Wars can be and what its stories can contain.
We had the original movies. Then we had the Extended Universe. Then we had the prequels. Star Wars, over the years, has come a long way. So, now we get an official new movie that basically harkens back to the originals, with a balance of new and old (with lots of old, granted). Some people see the old aspects as rehash-y, some view them as "the way it should be." And on top of that, there are people who complain about anything new, including the villain who looks like Vader at first glance but is entirely different, or the main character who uses a lightsaber but isn't necessarily a Jedi.
There are many areas where people can disagree about the value of any Star Wars content after the OT. But, I'm happy that I can now accept the Prequels for what they are, and I can accept The Force Awakens as a movie that calls back to the good ol' days while providing a foundation for some brand new, epic goodness in Episodes VIII and IX.
you can see my edit, I was ready for some kind of incredibly prophetic article from 2013
When you ask a question don't you usually wait for an answer?
Also time dilation in movies.
excelsiorlef
Member
Of course you do.
I don't because
1) It implies that Luke throughout the entire trilogy was building up to confront Vader, which isn't true. A New Hope does nothing to build towards those two confronting, Vader doesn't even know who Luke is, and the only thing Luke knows about Vader is that Vader killed Luke's dad (but that line is a throwaway backstory line). At the time A New Hope was written and filmed Vader wasn't even going to be Luke's dad. Luke vs Vader didn't even remotely become a plot point until Empire.
2) It's another article that ignores the fact that Ren was injured during the fight with Finn and Rey.
I love this shot so much, wish we could have got more of the Knights of Ren
When this was in Rey's vision, my impression was that she sees this through the eyes of someone else. I wonder who?
Interfectum
Member
3) It also ignore's Kylo's arc. He's too arrogant and torn between light and dark. After killing his father and losing to a relative newbie, both of those issues have been mostly solved. In Episode 8, Kylo will not forget he lost to Rey (she scarred his face) and it will most likely be a driving force in his growth going forward.
Atraveller
Banned
Luke's, probably.
Davey Cakes
Member
See, I don't.
I understand the angle, but I just don't get the criticism.
One was dwindling in his ability to use The Force, due to injury and mental instability in the moment, and the other was awakening in her ability, which provided extra motivation and energy and will. Was it a bit of a stretch? Maybe. But I think the point is to set up that these characters were not at 100% in this battle but later on, they will be and it will be glorious.
They didn't copy Luke vs. Vader in terms of the escalation of those characters to the climaxes of ESB and RotJ. I don't see an issue with this. TFA showed two opposing characters, a hero and villain, at less than full capacity, rather than stretching out the hero's arc over the course of three movies to the point where that character is finally capable of taking down the villain. Rey and Kylo will rise together, as opposed to one rising to meet the other.
I can get on board with that. It's something that TFA did that DIDN'T copy the OT.
Shuggananas
Banned
Nah I don't think he was there when this happened, he would have stopped them or killed a few of them before fleeing imo
The Librarian
Banned
Atraveller
Banned
Maybe he did, but he just couldn't kill his nephew, there's gotta be a reason why an extremely important assignment (finding Luke) has only one Knight of Ren working on it.
Shuggananas
Banned
Well I guess we'll see in VIII
But Snoke seems to imply the other knights of Ren are still alive
But Snoke seems to imply the other knights of Ren are still alive
rhetorical questions?
i was noting the parallel to giving someone too much time for an answer being their downfall. and that the similarity of being in a dangerous position (light sabers close to face / drowning) being a moment of clarity for said character is silly.
time dilation is always a thing, but it doesn't have to be. even rocky and the matrix did it without awkward flashbacks.
let's just agree to disagree. i still love the movie.
HerbertFish
Member
I liked Revenge of the Sith better but episode 1 and 2 are pretty indefensible.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Just a question: did Rey get hurt. Both Kylo and Finn get injured by the lightsabers, but did Rey? I don't remember.
I don't think the details of the fight is the point -- it's not mine, at this moment -- but the lead up to the fight and to Rey's powerup. We don't see her really struggle with the Force and her major setback is almost immediately rectified.
Imperfected
Member
This bears reiterating. Vader was a broken old man on his last legs, who if he could even be said to be at the top of his game, certainly wasn't getting any better. The fact that Kylo is still a growing character is spelled out pretty explicitly in the movie.
Granted, a "static" villain is the common way of doing things, especially in terms of very traditional Hero's Journey narratives, but that's operating under the assumption Kylo spends the entire trilogy as a purely antagonistic force and never has an arc of its own. Even if it hasn't been spelled out what kind of arc he's going to have, I think it's blatantly obvious there's going to be one.
I HIGHLY recommend people listen to the AOTC commentary. There is so many things they utterly BRAG about that just don't hold up anymore. Rob Coleman bragging that EVERY single Clone Trooper is digital and none are real is a highlight.
Also this embarrassing edit from ROTS. Watch Anakin!
https://gfycat.com/EthicalCapitalAmmonite
Also this embarrassing edit from ROTS. Watch Anakin!
https://gfycat.com/EthicalCapitalAmmonite
Shuggananas
Banned
he seems really sick, what the fuck is even happening there
She did get thrown into a tree before the fight started.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If we have to go through the whole "Rey struggles to learn how to use The Force" thing then people would complain that they're mirroring Luke's initial struggles in Empire Strikes Back too much.
Totally ignores his arc. Kylo isn't Vader. After hat happened this series will lead up to the next eventual confrontation between the two
heliosRAzi
Banned
Ah thanks.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Well, people already complain about the movie mirroring ANH.
Lifejumper
Member
One of the knights of ren has lightsaber in the artbook. Wonder if will be in VIII.
thats tripping me out. what's the story behind this?
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