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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

B

brandonh83

Banned
heliosRAzi said:
I agree with this part
Click to expand...

This is an argument based on an incomplete story and character arc. I find that pretty pointless and kneejerk at best. It's assuming many things. Rey will likely face huge challenges going forward. This was about her tapping into her potential and Kylo's rage and arrogance, in addition to being injured, contributed to her "victory." I have a feeling things won't be that easy later down the line, and trying to make arguments about this stuff without the rest of the pieces is utter nonsense.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Halcyon said:
I'm imagining he's sitting on a bench at the mall looking at a group of teenagers standing in front of Hot Topic. Maybe they're constantly fidgeting with their fingerless gloves, when a middle aged woman leaves with a Kylo Ren Pop Figure. This causes nothing but smirks from the group as they collectively roll their eyes and mention how much of a wuss Kylo is. He shifts nervously on the bench in agreement, raises a finger and mumbles "i agree". Nobody hears him.
Click to expand...

I haven't laughed this much in days

Thank you :lol
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
If the criticism is "Rey doesn't struggle enough with the force," then the same can be directed at ANH. If anything, Luke struggles less with the force than Rey does.

Of course, I've never heard the criticism that Luke didn't struggle with the Force too much.
 
V

Vyer

Member
That Kylo/Rey battle criticism is wrong because Kylo is not Vader's level. The whole point of him is that he's not supposed to be. It 'demeans him' because it's supposed to at that point. The movie (and new trilogy I suppose) is as much about Kylo's growth and evolution as anyone else's.
 
A

Atraveller

Banned
Lifejumper said:
One of the knights of ren has lightsaber in the artbook. Wonder if will be in VIII.
Click to expand...
Speaking of the Knights, people here said Jedis in PT should have different weapons, maybe this is it, we might finally get to see force users use not-lightsabers for real in future movies.
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
Vyer said:
That Kylo/Rey battle criticism is wrong because Kylo is not Vader's level. The whole point of him is that he's not supposed to be. It 'demeans him' because it's supposed to at that point. The movie (and new trilogy I suppose) is as much about Kylo's growth and evolution as anyone else's.
Click to expand...
This just seems so obvious that I'm baffled people keep arguing about it.

I'm all for discussion and I'm an analytical mind myself. There are some issues that I'll admit I'm giving TFA the pass on after a second viewing, but Kylo Ren is still not part of any of them. In my mind, the filmmakers create a legitimately interesting villain who will only grow over time. I can pretty much exactly see what they're doing with that character and every other character, for that matter.

The execution may not be 100% spot on but it's just a stinkin' movie and I have to draw a line somewhere.
 
B

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Gonzalez said:
Someone tell me what I'm supposed to see here. Am I supposed to see a sailboat?
Click to expand...

anakin face slightly morphs. but it makes no sense to me, because it's not like his face changes significantly for any purpose. it's like they filmed it twice and tried to seamlessly overlay a new cut?
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Bad_Boy said:
anakin face slightly morphs. but it makes no sense to me, because it's not like his face changes significantly for any purpose. it's like they filmed it twice and tried to seamlessly overlay a new cut?
Click to expand...

Huh? He just quits gritting his teeth and tilts his head forward and the lighting just makes it look weird.
 
1

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
Rash said:
See, I don't.

I understand the angle, but I just don't get the criticism.

One was dwindling in his ability to use The Force, due to injury and mental instability in the moment, and the other was awakening in her ability, which provided extra motivation and energy and will. Was it a bit of a stretch? Maybe. But I think the point is to set up that these characters were not at 100% in this battle but later on, they will be and it will be glorious.

They didn't copy Luke vs. Vader in terms of the escalation of those characters to the climaxes of ESB and RotJ. I don't see an issue with this. TFA showed two opposing characters, a hero and villain, at less than full capacity, rather than stretching out the hero's arc over the course of three movies to the point where that character is finally capable of taking down the villain. Rey and Kylo will rise together, as opposed to one rising to meet the other.

I can get on board with that. It's something that TFA did that DIDN'T copy the OT.
Click to expand...

I'm mystified by these criticisms. The movie is pretty clear about what is going on and presents it in a compelling manner while prioritizing character development in the same way the OT did. I just don't see how people keep oversimplifying the end fight to parrot these inane "she's not even a jedi and she beat a sith lord!", etc etc. complaints.

Oh, and the darth maul fight is garbage compared to it with it's awkward forced choreography and empty, boring characters.
 
CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
inm8num2 said:
Couple of recent articles:)

The George Awakens (The New Yorker)
Click to expand...

That was beautiful
4gk3CmS.png
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
heliosRAzi said:
I agree with this part
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that at all. In addition to all the points made about Kylo's injury, Rey's existing skill in melee combat, that's also the fact that we have absolutely no idea how well trained with a Lightsaber Kylo is. Only time we saw him use it during the film was to throw a temper tantrum, and to block blaster fire (something Luke picked up in about 30 seconds). He's using a cobbled together, ancient Lightsaber that's barely stable. I get the feeling Lightsaber prowess was not something Luke emphasized in his training.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
140.85 said:
This might be the worst thing written yet about TFA.
Click to expand...

I had a feeling some people would get a kick out of it. ;)

My favorite part is when he compares Kylo to a character in a Streisand movie then cites Count Dooku (still a hilarious name) as a standard for a villain.
 
L

Liquidsnake

Banned
I find it funny that weeks after release, so many are in line with every other movie ever talked about here

Stage one, joy
stage two ehhh it was ok
stage three this movie is not good.

Its so funny and so true to form.
1. We are coming off the PT which almost ruined the entire franchise!
2. Disney and JJ had to rebuild, and remind us why we liked this franchise in the first place.

Go Back to move forward, and created amazing new characters in the process. I am truly sorry for those that didn't like this, but to call it trash; then Star Wars was not your thing ever. It might be my favorite only behind Empire.
 
M

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
inm8num2 said:
My favorite part is when he compares Kylo to a character in a Streisand movie then cites Count Dooku (still a hilarious name) as a standard for a villain.
Click to expand...

At this point, I've come to accept the fact that Kylo's characterization isn't everyone's tea even though it's a step forward for SW villains.


But Count Dooku as a standard? Really? Of all the damn people in this saga?
 
U

ultracal31

You don't get to bring friends.
DrArchon said:
Does he mean the lifeless fight scene starring two morons vs. a non-character? The last fight in TFA blows the Maul fight out of the water. At least that one has characters I, you know, care about.
Click to expand...

Not only that but TPM took about 2 hours to get to maybe 5-10 minutes of Darth Maul for something that fun but has zero emotional connection with a disposable lackey. (Not counting clone wars that expanded upon Maul)

Somehow 5-10 minutes TPM is "better" than TFA which objectively pretty damn wrong

In the end that article seems pretty click baiting and reminds me of the black nerd video on how after the initial rush of praise here comes the ranters
 
1

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
That New Yorker writer sure is living in a bubble if he thinks Vice, Vox and the New York Times comments on TFA are somehow indicative of the fan consensus. They're just parroting the inane "derivative" criticisms that willfully ignore the movie they just watched.

Nobody ever stopped loving the genius of some of what Lucas did with the OT, dude. Stop trying to be hipster by loving what is traditionally and rightfully derided.

This is especially egregious tripe:
“The Force Awakens” isn’t a bad attempt at resurrecting the old “Star Wars.” But it proves once and for all the folly of this kind of nostalgia. The thrill that cannot be recovered—by Lucas or Abrams or Rian Johnson—is the thrill of discovering the “Star Wars” universe for the first time. That’s the thrill that Lucas created.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you ignore all the new things present in TFA and only focus on the bits of "nostalgia". Did he even watch the movie or just mentally check out like so many as soon as they saw anything that resembles previous films? And way to pre-denounce the efforts by Rian Johnson before he even gets a chance to finish the film, prick. This guy represents the worst of self-aggrandizing pompous social media level criticism.
 
B

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Liquidsnake said:
I find it funney that weeks after release, you are in line with every other movie ever talked about here

Stage one, joy
stage two ehhh it was ok
stage 3 this movie is not good.

Its so funny and so true to form.
1. We are coming off the PT which almost ruined the entire franchise!
2. Disney and JJ had to rebuild, and remind us why we liked this franchise in the first place.

Go Back to move forward, and created amazing new characters in the process. I am truly sorry for those that didn't like this, but to call it trash; then Star Wars was not your thing ever. It might be my favorite only behind Empire.
Click to expand...

who is "you" and who is calling it trash?
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Just bought the remaining Kylo Ren (official) merchandise. Put an order on that shit, two days until I'm officially the biggest nerd.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
MMarston said:
At this point, I've come to accept the fact that Kylo's characterization isn't everyone's tea even though it's a step forward for SW villains.


But Count Dooku as a standard? Really? Of all the damn people in this saga?
Click to expand...

He also thinks Luke takes Obi-Wan's role in the Force Awakens. Because he has a hood up at one point. Regardless of the fact Han fills Obi-Wan's actual narrative role in every single scene where there's a major stylistic or plot analogue to the original film, and pretty much anyone you ask about the movie could probably point that out without a Film degree.

Faith in the competence of this critic instantly lost.
 
J

JumPeRJumPzZ

Banned
Liquidsnake said:
I find it funney that weeks after release, you are in line with every other movie ever talked about here

Stage one, joy
stage two ehhh it was ok
stage 3 this movie is not good.

Its so funny and so true to form.
1. We are coming off the PT which almost ruined the entire franchise!
2. Disney and JJ had to rebuild, and remind us why we liked this franchise in the first place.

Go Back to move forward, and created amazing new characters in the process. I am truly sorry for those that didn't like this, but to call it trash; then Star Wars was not your thing ever. It might be my favorite only behind Empire.
Click to expand...

This^^
 
L

Liquidsnake

Banned
I changed it, I feel like so many try to be cool, by posting things like "this movie is trash"

Im thinking c'mon man you lose all credibility when you start by saying something like this.
 
9

90sRobots

Member
Liquidsnake said:
I find it funney that weeks after release, so many are in line with every other movie ever talked about here

Stage one, joy
stage two ehhh it was ok
stage three this movie is not good.

Its so funny and so true to form.
1. We are coming off the PT which almost ruined the entire franchise!
2. Disney and JJ had to rebuild, and remind us why we liked this franchise in the first place.

Go Back to move forward, and created amazing new characters in the process. I am truly sorry for those that didn't like this, but to call it trash; then Star Wars was not your thing ever. It might be my favorite only behind Empire.
Click to expand...

XH6IgCt.gif
 
S

Scientist Supreme!

Banned
Liquidsnake said:
I find it funney that weeks after release, so many are in line with every other movie ever talked about here

Stage one, joy
stage two ehhh it was ok
stage three this movie is not good.

Its so funny and so true to form.
1. We are coming off the PT which almost ruined the entire franchise!
2. Disney and JJ had to rebuild, and remind us why we liked this franchise in the first place.

Go Back to move forward, and created amazing new characters in the process. I am truly sorry for those that didn't like this, but to call it trash; then Star Wars was not your thing ever. It might be my favorite only behind Empire.
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ. lol
 
1

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
jett said:
That's a great article.
Click to expand...

Aureon said:
God i love the New Yorker.
Click to expand...

Lucas couldn’t have picked a better amanuensis than Abrams, who honors his heroes but doesn’t have it in him to drive a light sabre through their hearts. Abrams will never be a master.
Click to expand...

This is meaningless, pedantic drivel supported by pretty much nothing other than the authors sense or self-importance.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
The Lamonster said:
This is damn good, and pretty much my thoughts as well. I was hoping TFA would have more new stuff, like the prequels had. All of the set pieces in TFA were rehashes of stuff in the OT. The prequels gave us a lot of new and interesting stuff; some of it failed but at least it was different.
Click to expand...

Different =/= Good

"But guys, it was different!" seems to have become the new rallying cry for Prequel defenders.
 
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