brandonh83
Banned
Based on what evidence?
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Based on what evidence?
Triggerhappytel
Member
These are both unbelievably moronic articles.
First of all I can't respect a writer who doesn't even name-check the subject of his article, and to top it off doesn't use an apostrophe where needed,
This is absurd. He complains about TFA being a retread without any ideas of its own, then recommends Star fucking Trek Into Darkness?!
It may not have any moments as stand-out as that fight (I disagree, but never mind), but it's a far, far more consistent film overall without any of the numerous lows in characters, dialogue, situations and Jar Jar cunting Binks which plague TPM on a minute-by-minute basis. I don't have any witty retort, but I think anyone who thinks fondly of this film really needs to watch the Plinkett review for a breakdown of why almost everything about it is awful.
As for that New Yorker article, I don't think anyone denies that Lucas made something great and his achievements with the Original Trilogy were very important to modern filmmaking, but that doesn't change the fact that the Prequel Trilogy was shitty and his direction was utter crap. He can't direct actors convincingly or get them to express emotion, his editing and camera angles are dull and repetitive and there's way, way too much reliance on CGI leaving this strange disconnect between the characters and their environments. The dialogue is terrible and he gets absolutely godawful performances out of a host of great actors. I mean, I have a lot of respect for the guy for what he did back in the 70s and 80s, but that doesn't automatically mean everything he made was good, or the work of an 'artist'.
The reason why The Force Awakens is far better than any of the Prequel Trilogy is primarily the central characters, their decisions and the dialogue. They convey emotion, conflicts, their actions and reactions are logical and the actions scenes are great without being overly complex or self-indulgent. Take Kylo Ren vs. Darth Maul for instance - Ren is far more interesting that Maul, whose only job was to look cool and do sweet acrobatics. Ren has conflicts, he has outbursts, he has anger and sadness and fear. He's a fucking hundred times more interesting than any of the villains in the Prequel Trilogy. And that's because care was given to him beyond his look and his Lightsabre, unlike Maul, Dooku or Grievous.
I mean, what the fuck does this even say?! I don't understand what he means with this metaphor.
Well okay I guess. Bit overblown.
Fancy Clown
Member
At the end of the day TFA is is a good movie and the prequels are not. Good writing, characters, storytelling, acting, cinematography >>> new aesthetics and setpieces. Sure, I respect Lucas for doing something new with the material and trying to make Star Wars a wushu operatic romance, but they are bad movies.
TFA leans heavily on the OT, but it's a sequel/soft reboot that connects to the film's people actually liked, and reintroduce that style to people only familiar with the prequels or unfamiliar with Star Wars altogether. And for the most part, it's backed by successful filmmaking.
TFA leans heavily on the OT, but it's a sequel/soft reboot that connects to the film's people actually liked, and reintroduce that style to people only familiar with the prequels or unfamiliar with Star Wars altogether. And for the most part, it's backed by successful filmmaking.
It's not journalism. It's a masturbatory opinion piece.
It doesn't really matter if it was different when it wasn't good.
TFA does alot of good stuff and helps set up the the next movies, it did exactly what it needed to do in probably the best way they could.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
No kidding, I've seen that as the only defense from a lot of prequel lovers lately and it still doesn't hold up at all
brandonh83
Banned
I don't get why we have these articles. Having an opinion? Fine. Thinking Abrams sucks? Fine. But the notion of you publicly criticising an artist from a podium that enables your voice to be heard by many, especially one who created a film that received amazing reviews and acclaim, just seems adolescent to me at best.
This effort to resurrect the reputation of the PT based on some amorphous standard that they had some "good ideas" is misguided. What matters in the end is - did the film execute it's ideas effectively.
Other than that, it seems to be the kneejerk cyclical hipster tendencies of shifting focus to whatever is popularly derided at the moment to get some cool cred for liking something kitschy.
Right on, Liquidsnake.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I've seen this sentiment many times across the Internet which obviously include some Star Wars threads here.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
AlimNassor
Banned
Obiwan is the perfect Jedi he's never fallen. He's lost everything and yet he never gives into the darkside.
brandonh83
Banned
Oh
I use the smiley to reinforce that I come in peace and am not looking for conflict. But yeah, that's hardly remotely substantial.
He was shot with the bowcaster. If he survived that, he has the force in him. Or she/her.
Either Chewie or Han iced Sawg Trooper. #besttrooper
#Superdupertrooper
heliosRAzi
Banned
Expressing an opinion to whomever might listen is adolescent. Okay.
Cri everitiem.
I wanted him to get captured and become a new character out for revenge who just wants to even the score with Finn. Make him Jason Statham-like character in Fast7, just a dude who pops up once in a while to fuck shit up hahaha
brandonh83
Banned
It's the nature and tone that makes it so.
Like I hoped for Tony Jaa in Fast7 I hoping he would join the team like a cool guy.
The prequels were so original and brave. Especially in the second movie where Skywalker disobeyed orders to not fight the Sith Apprentice and got his hand cut off as a result.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Took my parents to see it today. Neither are massive Star Wars fans but they were looking forward to it and saw the originals when they were first released. My mum loved it. Thought Ford was great as Han (even had a tear in her eye when he died) and the new characters were all really likable. My dad liked it but had a few quibbles. Complained Carrie Fisher was as stiff as a board and he wasn't 100% convinced with Ridley but he still enjoyed it overall. He thought Boyega was the strongest of the new actors.
I was really surprised it was still so busy in the middle of a weekday, it was nice to see them enjoy it though.
I was really surprised it was still so busy in the middle of a weekday, it was nice to see them enjoy it though.
heliosRAzi
Banned
What's the nature of it? What was the tone?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Here's how it should have went
Have Phasma be TR-8R
Blast Plasma the same way you do TR-8R. Presumed dead.
Have some random officer lower the shield and get thrown down a garbage shoot.
Over the shoulder shot of Rey looking at Ren as the gap widens and figures start to run in behind him
Turns out the figures are Hux and motherfucking Phasma with a massive dent in her armor from taking that Bowcaster like a G and coming to save Kylo's ass.
Boom. Now you get to sell regular Phasma and Damaged Phasma toys AND you don't make her look like a chump.
Have Phasma be TR-8R
Blast Plasma the same way you do TR-8R. Presumed dead.
Have some random officer lower the shield and get thrown down a garbage shoot.
Over the shoulder shot of Rey looking at Ren as the gap widens and figures start to run in behind him
Turns out the figures are Hux and motherfucking Phasma with a massive dent in her armor from taking that Bowcaster like a G and coming to save Kylo's ass.
Boom. Now you get to sell regular Phasma and Damaged Phasma toys AND you don't make her look like a chump.
brandonh83
Banned
Blah blah this person is not a "master" or whatever that means. It's ridiculous.
Whats amusing about this is that the prequels actually have a ridiculous number of call backs to the originals, often pointless ones that make no sense in the context of the story.
Granted, in terms of plot beats, TFA is indeed more similar, but for every similarity they have, they provide some sort of twist, which makes things interesting. Rey is not Luke. Han is not Obiwan. Kylo is not Darth Vader. They're descendants of the OT, strongly resembling them like a child resembles their parent, but fundamentally different.
QuantumZebra
Member
I dismissed TR-8R being Phasma due to them dying but this works perfectly
Fancy Clown
Member
Like Han's death scene is superficially similar to both Obi-Wan's death and the I am your father scene, but the emotional beats of it couldn't be more different. The familial power roles are reversed from the I am your father thing, but it lends it more gravity than Obi Wan's sacrifice because it uses the familial tragedy aspect of the Empire scene.
The prequels just used meaningless references for the most part, but TFA did a good job of using the the old aspects in new ways to serve the story while recalling the the saga before.
Exactly. Very well said.
Well to be fair that was an attempt to set up why Anakin loses his hand, but yeah. Some seem to be forgetting how derivative the PT was and didn't even put it's own twist on it.
heliosRAzi
Banned
He seemed respectful. He even called Abrams a perfect choice to be Lucas' amanuensis.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
But we got to see yoda with a tiny lightsaber, something everybody wanted to see. See him go to town, cause different is good cause I said so and I don't like female leads.
Interfectum
Member
The prequels failed or stumbled on pretty much every level besides the music and, maybe, world building. The acting, the dialogue and the character development are all bottom tier.
So you can say "at least the prequels gave us something new" but I can say "at least episode 7 was an enjoyable piece of quality entertainment."
So a sense of new stuff now takes precedence over better writing, acting, effects work, cinematography, story telling, and characterization.
That's... Interesting, considering how the prequels went out of their goddamn way to shove familiar shit in nonsensical ways just for the sake of feeling familiar.
That's... Interesting, considering how the prequels went out of their goddamn way to shove familiar shit in nonsensical ways just for the sake of feeling familiar.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
Prequel fans just really love jar jar, flat angles and shot reverse shot.
I just love the time where Count Dooku introduction shot was sitting in a boardroom meeting
Interfectum
Member
Prequel fans just really love jar jar, flat angles and shot reverse shot.
I just love the time where Count Dooku introduction shot was sitting in a boardroom meeting
Hey at least Count Dooku wasn't whiny and dumb looking like Adam Driver! \s
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
Driver was at least directed better. Lucas had christopher lee and like the other actors couldn't do much with him.
Is this sarcasm?
funkystudent
Member
Random thoughts.
If Reys vision is the direction they are taking force ghosts now then thats interesting. Something more abstract and hallucination-y is a cool and less goofy way to take those.
If Reys vision is the direction they are taking force ghosts now then thats interesting. Something more abstract and hallucination-y is a cool and less goofy way to take those.
Interfectum
Member
yes
Prequel fans just really love jar jar, flat angles and shot reverse shot.
I just love the time where Count Dooku introduction shot was sitting in a boardroom meeting
Those digital shifts man. When you can't bother to shoot the performance you really wanted/you're a director who can't leave well enough alone after the fact... Making your scene look like some animorph abomination is the mark of great quality cinema.
hipsterpants
Member
You guys seem rather defensive about people criticizing TFA or actually liking stuff about the PT. The New Yorker article seemed to be more about people being able to appreciate Lucas more now that Disney has taken the Star Wars spotlight from him.
I don't think the PT is that good but it's dumb that Disney seems to want to avoid anything pre-OT like the plague. Just because the movies weren't very good doesn't mean someone can't do something interesting with the ideas presented.
though tbh I'm already cynical as fuck knowing that Star Wars is an annual franchise now
I don't think the PT is that good but it's dumb that Disney seems to want to avoid anything pre-OT like the plague. Just because the movies weren't very good doesn't mean someone can't do something interesting with the ideas presented.
though tbh I'm already cynical as fuck knowing that Star Wars is an annual franchise now
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
I don't know man, when I get in my chair and have my coffee it's hard to you know direct actors over the monitors
WadiumArcadium
Member
This isn't really true. Lucasfilm have released a fair amount of prequel era content since the Disney takeover.
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