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[watershed]

I used it because he says "No" in it lol. It's not his best scene but at least McDiarmid's performance is fun and entertaining, which you can't say for many of the others. I'm arguing it wasn't terrible, not that it was incredible.

I thought Liam was decent in TPM too. Definitely one of the brighter parts of the film.

This is my metric for acting performances: in a good movie, in a normal, typical, well made film, you don't notice bad acting or badly acted scenes. Mostly because they don't exist. In most good movies, the acting is good or good enough. That's just a basic standard for most good films.

Not one of the prequel films meet this standard. Across all 3 films there are multiple times each principal actor gives a terrible/bad/flat performance. That doesn't happen in good, well made, well acted, well edited movies. So when there are multiple poorly acted scenes for each actor in the cast, I can never say said actors were great or even good.

Liam Neeson gave a flat performance in TPM. He wasn't awful but he wasn't good. That being said he was better than everyone else in the prequels.

 

[The Lamonster]

Different =/= Good

"But guys, it was different!" seems to have become the new rallying cry for Prequel defenders.

It doesn't really matter if it was different when it wasn't good.

"some of it"


Yeah ok.

The prequels failed or stumbled on pretty much every level besides the music and, maybe, world building. The acting, the dialogue and the character development are all bottom tier.

So you can say "at least the prequels gave us something new" but I can say "at least episode 7 was an enjoyable piece of quality entertainment."

Guys, I know that hating on the prequels is the cool thing to do, but all three prequels had some new, cool aspects to them:

-as noted above, the score
-Ewan McGregor
-pod race
-dual-bladed lightsaber, purple lightsaber
-Jango Fett/Obi Wan Kamino fight and space battle
-seeing Coruscant and the Senate chamber/seedy underbelly/Jedi Council
-Ian McDiarmid back in character as Palpatine
-the TPM intro (Jedi ambush/escape)
-the AOTC intro (failed assassination, bounty hunter chase)
-the ROTS intro (space battle, Palpatine rescue, Dooku execution, ship escape)

Now, compared to TFA, we have some new/cool things as well:

-Oscar Isaac
-Ford/Fischer/Hamill are back
-hilted lightsaber
-female lead
-a competent stormtrooper (still dies)

...and that's about it as far as new ideas that were brought to the Star Wars universe in TFA.

 

[Twilight Gap]

not that i disagree, but you're comparing three films to one

 

[Vyer]

That list is....uh, really something. ;p

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Guys, I know that hating on the prequels is the cool thing to do, but all three prequels had some new, cool aspects to them:

-as noted above, the score
-Ewan McGregor
-pod race
-dual-bladed lightsaber, purple lightsaber
-Jango Fett/Obi Wan Kamino fight and space battle
-seeing Coruscant and the Senate chamber/seedy underbelly/Jedi Council
-Ian McDiarmid back in character as Palpatine
-the TPM intro (Jedi ambush/escape)
-the AOTC intro (failed assassination, bounty hunter chase)
-the ROTS intro (space battle, Palpatine rescue, Dooku execution, ship escape)

Now, compared to TFA, we have some new/cool things as well:

-Oscar Isaac
-Ford/Fischer/Hamill are back
-hilted lightsaber
-female lead
-a competent stormtrooper

...and that's about it as far as new ideas that were brought to the Star Wars universe in TFA.

Bear in mind you're comparing one film to three there.

 

[Sephzilla]

Guys, I know that hating on the prequels is the cool thing to do, but all three prequels had some new, cool aspects to them:

-as noted above, the score
-Ewan McGregor
-pod race
-dual-bladed lightsaber, purple lightsaber
-Jango Fett/Obi Wan Kamino fight and space battle
-seeing Coruscant and the Senate chamber/seedy underbelly/Jedi Council
-Ian McDiarmid back in character as Palpatine
-the TPM intro (Jedi ambush/escape)
-the AOTC intro (failed assassination, bounty hunter chase)
-the ROTS intro (space battle, Palpatine rescue, Dooku execution, ship escape)

Now, compared to TFA, we have some new/cool things as well:

-Oscar Isaac
-Ford/Fischer/Hamill are back
-hilted lightsaber
-female lead
-a competent stormtrooper (still dies)

...and that's about it as far as new ideas that were brought to the Star Wars universe in TFA.

We're referencing lightsaber colors, senate and jedi council sessions that were drawn out and boring, and intros to two movies that make very little fucking sense as pros for the prequels.........

Not to mention you completely left Kylo Ren off your list for TFA

 

[Fancy Clown]

Hating the prequels isn't "the cool thing to do" anymore than criticizing any other bad movie. That's all it is. They're bad movies coming off a string of good, much beloved movies, and now sandwiched between another good movie, so they just attract more criticism from a gargantuan fan base and their faults stand out all the more.

 

[The Lamonster]

not that i disagree, but you're comparing three films to one

Bear in mind you're comparing one film to three there.

Because yes, the prequels were weak. I'm not saying they were awesome. TFA is better than the prequels.

I'm just saying that it's frustrating to see people talk like there is nothing cool or new about them.

 

[Loris146]

Guys, I know that hating on the prequels is the cool thing to do, but all three prequels had some new, cool aspects to them:

-as noted above, the score
-Ewan McGregor
-pod race
-dual-bladed lightsaber, purple lightsaber
-Jango Fett/Obi Wan Kamino fight and space battle
-seeing Coruscant and the Senate chamber/seedy underbelly/Jedi Council
-Ian McDiarmid back in character as Palpatine
-the TPM intro (Jedi ambush/escape)
-the AOTC intro (failed assassination, bounty hunter chase)
-the ROTS intro (space battle, Palpatine rescue, Dooku execution, ship escape)

Now, compared to TFA, we have some new/cool things as well:

-Oscar Isaac
-Ford/Fischer/Hamill are back
-hilted lightsaber
-female lead
-a competent stormtrooper (still dies)

...and that's about it as far as new ideas that were brought to the Star Wars universe in TFA.

These are pretty bad things.

 

[Gonzalez]

not that i disagree, but you're comparing three films to one

Pod Racing kills whatever new crap TFA brought, though.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Pod Racing kills whatever new crap TFA brought, though.

Like new well written characters and good visual storytelling? I'll take those over a cartoonish setpiece no matter how "fun" it is

 

[The Lamonster]

We're referencing lightsaber colors, senate and jedi council sessions that were drawn out and boring, and intros to two movies that make very little fucking sense as pros for the prequels.........

Not to mention you completely left Kylo Ren off your list for TFA

It's not a list of pros, it's a list of new stuff. It's an argument for how the prequels were brand new, individual movies and not just a ANH rehash like TFA was.

 

[MMarston]

I'd actually be down for a pod-racing spinoff, no joke.

Spoiler

c'mon Justin Lin

 

[90sRobots]

Prequel dialog is weak mostly because everyone has a "proper" way of talking. Senators have to sound all diplomatic; Jedi have to sound all cryptic and wise.

Says who? Why does everyone have to speak so formally in sterile greenscreen rooms? As stupid as our IRL senate is, at least many members have PASSION in them.

Maybe this is better at addressing the stakes

Oh no oh no oh no oh no oh no oh no oh no oh no

than

Perhaps with merely your presence, the mystery surrounding this threat will be revealed.

It's a tried-and-true Abrams trick, but it works better than stilted dialogue that meek young actors are too chickenshit to criticize.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I'd actually be down for a pod-racing spinoff, no joke.

Spoiler

c'mon Justin Lin

That could actually be pretty sick. I second this.

 

[Interfectum]

It's not a list of pros, it's a list of new stuff. It's an argument for how the prequels were brand new, individual movies and not just a ANH rehash like TFA was.

And yet it took three movies worth of lists to match the "rehash" TFA.

 

[Loris146]

Pod Racing kills whatever new crap TFA brought, though.

Try spinning , is a good trick.

 

[Gonzalez]

Like new well written characters and good visual storytelling? I'll take those over a cartoonish setpiece no matter how "fun" it is

I don't think any of those devices will ever stand the test of time, like Pod racing has. Do you?

 

[The Lamonster]

Well actually, to play devil's advocate to myself, pod racing was kind of just a rehash/expansion of ROTJ's swoop bike chasing.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Have you guys seen the end of RedLetterMedia's review of TPM when its the shots of George Lucas and the producers having just finished the screening and you can just see pure panic in their eyes?

That is amazing.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Says who? Why does everyone have to speak so formally in sterile greenscreen rooms? As stupid as our IRL senate is, at least many members have PASSION in them.

Maybe this is better at addressing the stakes



than



It's a tried-and-true Abrams trick, but it works better than stilted dialogue that meek young actors are too chickenshit to criticize.

Says whoever wrote the dialog. One reason I don't care for high fantasy medieval movies is because of the "proper" dialog.

Have you guys seen the end of RedLetterMedia's review of TPM when its the shots of George Lucas and the producers having just finished the screening and you can just see pure panic in their eyes?

That is amazing.

 

[Gintamen]

Pod Racing kills whatever new crap TFA brought, though.

Only if we talk about the actual N64 game and the dual control system.

 

[Fancy Clown]

It's such a slapdash list. Like what do you consider new? A purple lightsaber? Okay than Kylo Ren's lightsaber is new. And BB8 is totally new because he rolls.

How about a black main character who is a stormtrooper, that's new and much more impactful to the story and culture surrounding Star Wars than a different color lightsaber or two characters fighting eachother.

Just listing off situations and aesthetics to try to quantify "newness" in a checklist war is bizzarre and antithetical to any kind of actual critique on the merits of the films.

 

[Interfectum]

The Pod Racing scene brought little to the table besides fluff. I actually thought Lucas wasted too much time there. He spent more time on that scene than he did transitioning Anakin from Jedi to child killer.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Says whoever wrote the dialog. One reason I don't care for high fantasy medieval movies is because of the "proper" dialog.

Haha exactly. I love how they all call him out on it too and the consensus basically is...Well were screwed.

The Pod Racing scene brought little to the table besides fluff. I actually thought Lucas wasted too much time there. He spent more time on that scene than he did transitioning Anakin from Jedi to child killer.

Re-watching the Prequels last week one of the biggest things that stood out to me was how long and pointless the pod racing scene is. It feels like half the damn movie.

 

[heyf00L]

Solo Skywalker Simulation


Rey, you must complete your m-m-m-mission

Exactly.

I started thinking this when a friend told me about some EU similarities, namely Han's son turning evil but also mentioned the Luke clone (Luuke). They seem to be at least a little bit following EU stories...

It also solves some problems. How can Rey be a Skywalker (since the series is mainly about the Skywalkers) but be abandoned by Luke (and if he had to for some reason, why with a slaver)? If she's a clone (or genetically engineered from Luke [maybe even Anikin too] in some way) that Luke doesn't know about, that problem is solved. It also explains why Ep VII is so very like Ep IV.

And if it's like MGS2, then not even Snoke knows he's a part of this but is being manipulated by something (like the dead Emperor's contingency plans or an AI version of him).

 

[Fancy Clown]

I don't think any of those devices will ever stand the test of time, like Pod racing has. Do you?

Yeah I do, because TFA will always be a good movie because of those things whereas pod racing is like "oh yeah I remember they made a decent arcade game based on that one part"

 

[The Lamonster]

The Pod Racing scene brought little to the table besides fluff. I actually thought Lucas wasted too much time there. He spent more time on that scene than he did transitioning Anakin from Jedi to child killer.

Easily the worst thing about the prequels. Wasn't that the entire point of them?

It's such a slapdash list. Like what do you consider new? A purple lightsaber? Okay than Kylo Ren's lightsaber is new. And BB8 is totally new because he rolls.

How about a black main character who is a stormtrooper, that's new and much more impactful to the story and culture surrounding Star Wars than a different color lightsaber or two characters fighting eachother.

Just listing off situations and aesthetics to try to quantify "newness" in a checklist war is bizzarre and antithetical to any kind of actual critique on the merits of the films.

BB8 is an R2D2 clone. R2 has wheels in his feet and also rolls.

Yes, the black defecting stormtrooper was absolutely new and should've been on my list.

This is just a fast-moving thread on a message board, I'm not here to write up some huge critique on the merits of the prequels, just trying to jog you guys' memory that the prequels had some cool shit in them.

 

[Sephzilla]

It's not a list of pros, it's a list of new stuff. It's an argument for how the prequels were brand new, individual movies and not just a ANH rehash like TFA was.

Again, new/different =/= good. Lets look at two of the things you highlighted, the intros to Episodes 1 and 2

The whole Jedi ambush/escape sequence from TPM makes no sense at multiple levels. Like why would the Trade Federation blow up their ship and alert the Jedi before trying to kill the Jedi? Why does everyone just instinctively believe a random protocol droid when it says they looked like Jedi? If they're going to gas the Jedi to death why not just fill the room with gas and wait an hour or two before going in to get the bodies? Why does Qui-Gon Jin suggest going down to the planet in two separate ships when they have absolutely no idea if the ships will land in the same area? Why does the Trade Federation even assume killing the Jedi is a good thing considering it would immediately get negative attention from the Republic?

And with Attack of the Clones... If you know Padme sleeps next to a giant window that is easily accessible via a droid, why not just shoot her through the window? Why does Obi-Wan jump out after the droid when he has no idea of the thing is rigged to explode or if the bounty hunter is out there with a rifle waiting just in case a Jedi is there? Why is Obi-Wan, the guy preaching patience and shit to Anakin, the guy rashly jumping out windows while Anakin does the smart thing and gets the car? Why does Jango Fett himself not just go and off Padme once the Jedi and the other bounty hunter leave? Why does Jango Fett even need to hire another bounty hunter in the first place? Why do the Jedi not bother chasing Jango Fett after they see him rocket off on a simple jetpack?

Jesus Christ, the prequels get so stupid.

 

[watershed]

It's such a slapdash list. Like what do you consider new? A purple lightsaber? Okay than Kylo Ren's lightsaber is new. And BB8 is totally new because he rolls.

How about a black main character who is a stormtrooper, that's new and much more impactful to the story and culture surrounding Star Wars than a different color lightsaber or two characters fighting eachother.

Just listing off situations and aesthetics to try to quantify "newness" in a checklist war is bizzarre and antithetical to any kind of actual critique on the merits of the films.

Yes it's a silly list. I mean he lists "Ian McDiarmid back in character as Palpatine" as new which makes zero sense. And the "space battle" between Obiwan and Jango Fett is just a different take on ESB's asteroid chase. etc, etc, etc.

 

[Brakke]

The one black saber wielder was killed in the lamest way after 1 ballet dance with Jango Fett.

Every time someone complains about the prequel fights being balletic, they're just showing off that they don't know anything about ballet.

I'd actually be down for a pod-racing spinoff, no joke.

Spoiler

c'mon Justin Lin

Holy shit this is a dream I never realized I had until just now.

 

[The Librarian]

Can't believe people in the toy thread are arguing that Rey isn't the main character to justify her absence in the toy market.

 

[Gonzalez]

Yeah I do, because TFA will always be a good movie because of those things whereas pod racing is like "oh yeah I remember they made a decent arcade game based on that one part"

It's only been out a few weeks, and people have already spotted huge flaws. I don't think it'll stand the test if time, like you think.

 

[Interfectum]

It's only been out a few weeks, and people have already spotted flaws. I don't think it'll stand the test if time, like you think.

Someone who doesn't like TFA doesn't think it will stand the test of time. Shocker.

People were pointing out TPM flaws as they were walking out the theater.

 

[heyf00L]

Pod Racing kills whatever new crap TFA brought, though.

The Pod Race and Darth Maul fight were awesome spectacles. Who would deny that? They hurt the plot, tho, since in the case of the Pod Race the set up was stupid (bomb in the brain? Qui Gon will cheat a little but not a lot?) and in the case of Darth Maul we don't care a lick about Darth Maul (no back story, no character development).

 

[ultracal31]

Pod Racing kills whatever new crap TFA brought, though.

The vehicle chase with the falcon and just TWO tie fighters was more exciting, urgent and plot driven than anything in TPM.

All within a 5 minute chase

 

[Loris146]

Haha exactly. I love how they all call him out on it too and the consensus basically is...Well were screwed.



Re-watching the Prequels last week one of the biggest things that stood out to me was how long and pointless the pod racing scene is. It feels like half the damn movie.

https://youtu.be/da8s9m4zEpo?t=108

That face ahahah

 

[atr0cious]

Every time someone complains about the prequel fights being balletic, they're just showing off that they don't know anything about ballet.

Yup, I'm complaining Sam was doing pirouettes.

There is no tension in the fights at all. They're shot boring, the overchoreography is some ADD twirling, and Sam's character specifically is supposed to be the best fucking dancer of them all. Yet he gets ganked by some dude doing the harlem shake. TFA's fight had more tension and gravity to it than all of the prequel dancebattles.

 

[Gonzalez]

The vehicle chase with the falcon and just TWO tie fighters was more exciting, urgent and plot driven than anything in TPM.

All within a 5 minute chase

That was a completely forgettable slap dash scene. The stuff, with The Raid crew was more memorable.

 

[90sRobots]

One of the underrated parts of "The Beginning" is when George tells Katie Lucas to stop collecting locks of Ewan's hair.

 

[Gintamen]

-as noted above, the score
-Ewan McGregor
-pod race
-dual-bladed lightsaber, purple lightsaber
-Jango Fett/Obi Wan Kamino fight and space battle
-seeing Coruscant and the Senate chamber/seedy underbelly/Jedi Council
-Ian McDiarmid back in character as Palpatine
-the ROTS intro (space battle, Palpatine rescue, Dooku execution, ship escape) .

Can't go wrong with great music.
McGregor and McDiarmid were the one great constants.
That's just the staff variant of a lightsaber, I wonder if Jedi Knight 2 had different colored first.
Pretty sure we saw plenty of megacity depiction by that time.
That intro made much more sense, if one read the novel ending in that scene/the situation they were in.

and in the case of Darth Maul we don't care a lick about Darth Maul (no back story, no character development).

He got his due in the Clone Wars series though, that's a positive right?

 

[Lmo911]

-a competent stormtrooper (still dies)

Maybe TR-8R survives and becomes part of Phasma's "Finn revenge squad." After nuking Starkiller, he's practically Bin Laden to the FO. He's going to need a lightsaber to cut through all the haters.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Have you guys seen the end of RedLetterMedia's review of TPM when its the shots of George Lucas and the producers having just finished the screening and you can just see pure panic in their eyes?

That is amazing.

They edited that scene to come off looking much worse than it does in the actual documentary they pulled it from.

 

[Sephzilla]

The pod race in Episode 1 is really cool but it does drag on too long. Not to mention it's all part of a glorified JRPG side quest to unlock party member Anakin Skywalker and get parts to fix their ship. Qui-Gon should have just sold Padme's ship and used the money to hire a pilot or smuggler in Mos Eisley.

This is a clever way to parallel A New Hope while still having it make sense to the story and not feel massively shoehorned in.

 

[90sRobots]

That was a completely forgettable slap dash scene. The stuff, with The Raid crew was more memorable.

That chase played a lot better the second time. I knew to get up and empty out all my beer once Han said "rathtars."

 

[ultracal31]

The Pod Race and Darth Maul fight were awesome spectacles. Who would deny that? They hurt the plot, tho, since in the case of the Pod Race the set up was stupid (bomb in the brain? Qui Gon will cheat a little but not a lot?) and in the case of Darth Maul we don't care a lick about Darth Maul (no back story, no character development).

You remind me of something with the Darth Maul fight and how it just "stops" in the middle with laser barriers.

Now this is some nit picking but what do those barriers do in that universe? Like what functions do they serve in that palace?

 

[Gonzalez]

Maybe TR-8R survives and becomes part of Phasma's "Finn revenge squad." After nuking Starkiller, he's practically Bin Laden to the FO. He's going to need a lightsaber to cut through all the haters.

If he survives, then Kylo truly is an awful villain.

 

[Twilight Gap]

The pod race in Episode 1 is really cool but it does drag on too long. Not to mention it's all part of a glorified JRPG side quest to unlock party member Anakin Skywalker and get parts to fix their ship. Qui-Gon should have just sold Padme's ship and used the money to hire a pilot or smuggler in Mos Eisley.

This is a clever way to parallel A New Hope while still having it make sense to the story and not feel massively shoehorned in.

ayy chewie looks blazed as fuck

 

[Brakke]

in the case of Darth Maul we don't care a lick about Darth Maul (no back story, no character development).

Duel of the Fates worked for me. I definitely wanted more for Darth Maul (like any lines at all, lol) but devil-looking seething malevolence was sufficient for one movie anyway. He was a good presence, killing him in his first outing was a mistake.

Like Hux. I don't need backstory or character development of Hux. He's evil and competent and he'll probably fall to hubris eventually because that's what badguys do. Sometimes a heel has an arc, sometimes a heel is just around to eventually job to the face. As long as they look going before jobbing out, I can dig it.

The vehicle chase with the falcon and just TWO tie fighters was more exciting, urgent and plot driven than anything in TPM.

All within a 5 minute chase

It also left a bunch of people scratching heads on how is Rey such a virtuoso pilot. In that sense, making that chase so thrilling hurt TFA's story for a bunch of people.

 

[atr0cious]

ayy chewie looks blazed as fuck