WadiumArcadium
Member
Kids book.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Kids book.
It made her look like a fangirl, and not a person who knew a thing, or two about flying. In fact there were way more scene, and lines of cringeworthy dialogue that made the new characters sound like Fanboys/girls.
This comparison is not illuminating.
Anyway Luke doesn't call himself a good pilot. His reputation has reached Obi-Wan independently, and the Rebellion entrust a fighter to him likely after his buddy vouches for him. Plus by the time he gets in a cockpit he's an established Hero who has overcome Many Obstacles. He has Heroic credentials and he's the protagonist. Neither of those are clear for Rey until she takes the cockpit. By comparison she has 1) climbed a rope, 2) been nice to a droid, 3) beaten two dudes in a street fight, and 4) had less screen-time than Finn.
Luke's piloting is What A Protagonist Would Do. In a sense, so is Rey's. The difference is that when Rey does it we haven't realized she's the protagonist yet.
At the time of her piloting, nobody knows she's Force Sensative. So it could be jarring in way Luke's piloting may not be.
But then how do they like the OT?
She grew up on a dessert planet dreaming about getting rescued by her parents. Aside from doing scavanging she had plenty of time dreaming about becoming a famous pilot as Han was, he's most famous one in the whole galaxy, and using the force, as the most famous and only jedi to her knowledge. She is/was a fangirl of Han, but keep on looking at problems that really aren't there. I'm not sure why you seem to think it being impossible to be a fan and know about piloting at the same time, Elaborate please.
It's almost like they were trying to hint that Rey was special to foreshadow the reveal that she is Force Sensitive.
Twilight Gap
Member
If the part where Han offers her a job isn't proof enough that she is indeed a fan, then I dunno.
Tomasoares
Member
Rey said in the movie that she already piloted a spaceship, but only inside the planet.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
She mentions she's a pilot, and says she's flown before in the 10+ years she's been on the planet. Even tells Han about the modifications of the Falcon.
Luke says he's a pilot without showing any proof, people are ok with this.
Again: duh. I even acknowledged this dynamic. "The difference is that when Rey does it we haven't realized she's the protagonist yet."
When Rey pilots the Falcon we learn things about her. When Luke pilots the X-Wing he's doing things we expect of him. Fencedude asked how the situations are different. There's the explanation.
heliosRAzi
Banned
If she mentioned that she flown through those Star Destroyers before, I probably wouldn't have a problem with it.
I think what would help is if she was driving her speeder through the Destroyer when we first meet her. Rappelling in it doesn't mean you can fly through it.
Twilight Gap
Member
Well the post above mentions a good point about Luke not actually piloting anything until the end of the movie, after he's already proven to be competent enough. Basically the same for Rey except switch flying with Lightsaber fighting.
Her rappelling through it is meant to show how routine it is for her to scavenge that ship. She knows it like the back of her hand. The movie also mentions twice before she enters it that it's a bad idea.
30yearsofhurt
Member
Because two of them are really good movies and one is okay.
How did the same guy make ANH and the PT?
Mysteries of the unexplained... oh wait it was midichlorinianthingimajigs uh ummm nanomachines.
So what would have made you happy with the scene?
If there was an extra scene with Rey explaining to Finn: "Back in the day when i was a ship pilot for 5 years..." or "I feel as though something is special with me...like I have the special ability to foresee things. I think thats what makes me a great pilot as my actions have shown." or "Dont worry! I am a pilot! I worked on a cargo ship back in the day for many years as a copilot and have lots of experience!"
You cant come to some rational conclusion on your own?
This is the FIRST movie, what if they explain a huge part of her past in the second movie?
Like god damn how much hand holding do you need?
Thank god JJ doesn't feel the need to appeal to the audience that has to have everything spelled out for them.
There is absolutely no hope for some of you in this thread.
WadiumArcadium
Member
This seems like nitpicking to the extreme. As a scavenger who has experience exploring Star Destroyers, she's probably traversed enough of them before to know the basic layout. I really don't see that as something that they need to explain. She's force sensitive and therefore has good reflexes and reaction times.
The Librarian
Banned
LegendofLex
Member
And they establish that even she doesn't know immediately after.
"How did you do that?"
"I don't know!"
But let's be real: she's supposed to be a mysterious character, even at the end of the movie.
But what do you like about them? To me it's baffling how people complain about the prequels when everything is also terrible in the OT.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Am I remembering right that she said she's "never broken atmosphere"? I got a little Firefly vibe since that's the only show/movie that I remember talking about "breaking atmo".
The Librarian
Banned
Plus on repeat viewings it's obvious to the viewer what's going on, especially with Snoke saying a little after, "There's been an awakening. Have you felt it?"
It's striking how any longwinded explanation, anything more than her saying that she's capable of piloting/being a pilot, would have been completely unfitting in the situation they were in.
I'm trying to make sense out of that last part, whaaaaaaaat?
30yearsofhurt
Member
I watched them all quite recently. Took a lot of effort but I did it.
I call bullshit on that, elaborate please. What exactly is "everything"? You want to be that special fish?
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah it's definitely not needed especially once
you realize she's unknowingly using the force, I'm just saying something in the novelization has no bearing on the movie
30yearsofhurt
Member
No, but there needs to be at least a logical storytelling reason why A, turns into B. You can't just hand wave it with "Why can't movie storytelling be bad".
You're not paying attention. I'm not even particularly unhappy with it. I literally said so: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=191325782
I even said a way I think would make the chase read better: just don't even have it. http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=191329172
We're trying to understand why some people were dissatisfied or put off by the scene. She goes from impoverished victim to perfect combat pilot within like ten minutes of us meeting her. If she took control of the Falcon and just made a harrowing skin-of-her-teeth escape -- instead of clowning on Orderians -- I think it'd've been less surprising for some people, and probably no less triumphant for the rest.
I don't want it spelled out. I said the simulator background is dumb and I wouldn't want it in the movie.
Yeah I liked that little exchange. It was good how exhilarated she was by the whole thing.
LegendofLex
Member
All of the logic exists within the film, and in fact is heaped on much more abundantly than we ever saw in the OT with Luke or the PT with Anakin.
It just isn't heaped on through exposition; it's conveyed through wordless storytelling and between-the-lines implications, and most of the information we need to really "get" Rey doesn't arrive until midway through the movie.
Since this is a universe where people can understand R2-D2's beeps and bops as full language, where space magicians have magic powers and mind control, where people use laser blasters and laser swords, where there are armies of clones, and where hundreds of alien races all understand English for some reason, is it impossible for us to make a leap in faith that a girl with space-magician powers may be able to do some unbelievable stuff while flying a space ship? Especially since that leap of faith will more than likely be explained in the guaranteed sequels?
I mean, Luke was deflecting laser beams while blindfolded in mere minutes. What's the difference?
Twilight Gap
Member
Victim of what?
heliosRAzi
Banned
Flying and rappelling are two different things.
If it takes me out of the movie, I don't feel like it's nitpicking. My opinions are my own. If you are fine with the movie as is, that is completely fine. I have different standards than you. I have different expectations than you. I have different thresholds of acceptability than you. And it's all fine.
To me, for my personal enjoyment of the movie, Rey pulling off these maneuvers was too much.
If it was just this, I'd be fine.
You are saying exactly what I am addressing. You are looking for immediate satisfaction through a specific reason she is able to do what she did.
What? How do you like that exchange when she specifically is saying she doesn't know how she did it when your argument is that the audience would have reacted better if more reasons were established why she was able to do what she did?
Liquidsnake
Banned
Disclaimer: I knew every major plot point already.
Acting: Everybody is terrible, like soap opera level acting. Even Harrison Ford was bad at that time, though he's gotten better.
Fights: Obi wan vs Vader is embarrassing. They look like they're fighting old age more than they're fighting each other, how has nobody has been able to kill any of these guys? Every fight looks like an average person swinging a stick.
Ship fights are boring, "locking on him" kinda stuff. Laser fights are even worse, pwepewpew x1000.
Effects: Terrible (excusable and expected since the movie is so old).
wtf are those legged tanks? whoever thought that was a good design? storm troopers defeated by sticks and stones, etc.
Vader, is a cool looking villain but he's a moron. Has no ambition beyond serving the other dude. Switches sides not because he was betrayed, but because his son was gonna die. Well wtf did you expect? Couldn't you have figured it out before killing all those people? Moron.
Probably forgot some other minor annoyances. Now your turn, what do you like in the OT? I wanna understand.
edit:
KOTOR 2 and now TFA. Kinda liked Episode I too.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think you hit the nail on the head. The disconnect some people are having isn't with Rey flying, or being a good pilot, it's how the movie decided to convey it, as a mini-RotJ Deathstar escape sequence callback.
LOVE this scene.
That look of sheer terror.
Its also cool, knowing now they used illuminated light sabers in the actual film to get that real red-light spill on Rey as opposed to adding it in later.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That doesn't make the chase better. It also makes the movie way less fun and/or way less cool.
This isn't problem solving, really. The level to which this percieved problem is negatively affecting the overall story isn't enough to necessitate the lifting out of a major set-piece that not only adds a fair amount of excitement and enjoyment to the film but further advances the characterizations of the two leads.
That suggestion is like chopping a hand off at the wrist because there's a hangnail on one of the fingers.
This hangnail probably wouldn't even be much of a hangnail if you weren't worrying at it with your teeth so much, too. This is a lot of effort to "explain" something that doesn't need to be explained. She's really good at driving the hot rod. It's fun watching the hot rod drive around. She doesn't know how she drove it so well (we find out later)
This isn't a thing we need to use as a reason to remove the racing from the film entirely.
Finally saw the movie today after a long wait (we booked it for day one, but that showing was cancelled and their other options for us didn't work so we had to wait until today) but my girlfriend and I both loved it. I haven't seen a Star Wars movie before this but wanted to but just said "fuck it" and watched it anyway, not sure if it's the same with most SW movies but I thought it was paced very, very well and was casted great too. Could have perhaps done with a bit less of the love story in places (from Finn's directive, mainly) and a few less jokes but still very impressed, looking forward to it coming out on DVD.
Different? Why not simply write higher? Adding that being "fine" doesn't make it fine.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Because we all have different opinions on stuff. This is all subjective stuff.
Twilight Gap
Member
Well look at what makes Rey a "Mary Sue"
-She knows how to pick apart machines
-She can understand droids and other creatures
-She can fly a ship she's probably torn apart and put back together through another ship she's been in a million times
-She has hand to hand combat training
-She saves Finn from the Rathtars
-She has a Force vision
-She can do a Jedi Mind Trick after being manipulated by the Force
-She can Force pull a lightsaber
-She can use a lightsaber
-She's a rich girl top of her class also a cheerlea--
Out of all of those, the one with the most exposition and foreshadowing is ironically her being able to fly the Falcon. There's no background to her hand to hand combat training, but it explains her being able to wield a lightsaber, which is also supported by her being force sensitive, which explains everything else.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Daisey was godly for her first outing. I mean she has some fn potential.
This is why I am never going to buy the 'rey is perfect' argument. Ignoring the inner narrative arc, there are numerous examples of her in moments of weakness. Where she's just a scared girl in the clutches of forces greater than her, be it Kylo Ren or those monsters in the freighter or being chased down by the tie fighters. She doesn't just walk in and win, she struggles for those individual victories through fear and doubt and panic.
excelsiorlef
Member
No background on her fight? They show her fight with her staff and then reproduce that fighting style in her fight against Ren.
Twilight Gap
Member
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