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[Savitar]

It's the Ashoka and Rex story we're all waiting for.

Knowing fandoms and how they work I'm sure there are several fanfictions about this in great detail.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I got the impression from the movie was Rey knew so much about the ships and how they worked because she researched them so much to know what to scavenge and she loved and obsessed about them, but wasn't really a pilot per say. Amd the actual know how to fly was when the force came in.

 

[Sephzilla]

Those people and "how did bruce wayne who happens to be a ninja, batman, and has power and influence across the globe get back into Gotham the city that he has installed undetected batcaves and batmobile garages in" people should get together.

Now you're reminding me of how awful the writing in Dark Knight Rises was, thanks.

 

[Kilrogg]

I kinda wish this happened just to see his reaction. The fact that he even brought it up to begin with was pretty funny.

Yeah, the point of the scene is both to establish Ren's anger management issues and to be funny.

I love how he goes 'Anything else?' after wrecking millions worth of equipment for 10 seconds. The only way it could have been funnier (although completely out-of-universe) is if he'd said "It's okay, I'm cool now" instead.

 

[3rdman]

I got the impression from the movie was Rey knew so much about the ships and how they worked because she researched them so much to know what to scavenge and she loved and obsessed about them, but wasn't really a pilot per say. Amd the actual know how to fly was when the force came in.

That's not how the force works!

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

That's not how the force works!

She believed. Thats all you need bro!

 

[Imperfected]

It really doesn't need to be explained further. Why are people hung up on this?

A scavenger sold it to a smuggler in Cloud City. The smuggler visited Maz's cantina, as smugglers are wont to do. Maz offered him more for the seemingly useless curio than it was worth to him.

An amazing tale that will outlast the ages.

 

[3rdman]

OMG so appropriate...was this posted before?

http://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-backstory-you-desperately-want-to-know-about-th-1751196966

 

[Blackthorn]

The only mention of Luke's piloting skills before we see him in the X-wing is also just him saying so.

If a reliable character states something in a movie, the audience is to assume that it's true.

Rey also later says she's flown before but not out of atmosphere, so we have literally all the information we need supplied by dialogue.

 

[QuantumZebra]

LOL yeah sure because honest dissections of the plot structure must mean that I hate vaginas.

Luke went from "I shot rats in a glorified cessna" to "blow up indestructible space station using the force and essentially blind" in a week

But that's legit so whatevs.

 

[Toa TAK]

Knowing fandoms and how they work I'm sure there are several fanfictions about this in great detail.

But I'm sure none of them are good.

 

[Savitar]

But I'm sure none of them are good.

One likely done by Lucas, he seems into that whole 14 year old loving an older man thing.

See the story of Indiana Jones for more on that.

 

[Experien]

Confession: I did not know cloud city was above something. I actually thought it was just a crazy space station so everything that falls off just gets disintegrated or something.

Cloud City isn't really above anything. Bespin is just a ball of gas. But the Vader/Luke fight happened INSIDE of Cloud City. They weren't dangling over the planet itself. As you might recall, he falls and goes through a tube, it is was an enclosed environment. I'm sure since there were catwalks that there was a grate/collecting system at the bottom incase people dropped stuff. All they really had to say was, "maintenance picked it up when cleaning and we found someone who sold it." But it is JJ Abrams, so why bother making sense when you can leave questions EVERYWHERE!

 

[opoth]

It really doesn't need to be explained further. Why are people hung up on this?

Gotta use that big armchair critic's brain for something!

It's simply amazing the things that got (and continue to get) a free pass during the OT in contrast to TFA's supposed plotholes.

The internet/social media is one culprit in terms of overanalysis and being unable to turn off our brains, but I also think information initially processed in our childhood is somewhat critic proof even later in life.

Opinions on certain things (Ewoks for example) can evolve with maturity but it seems like the plot itself and some of the more questionable choices stay unimpeachable even when guilty of the same "crimes" that TFA is.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

LOL yeah sure because honest dissections of the plot structure must mean that I hate vaginas.

What you're doing in the quoted post below isn't an "honest dissection of the plot structure" and in fact has almost nothing to do with the plotting of the film at all. None of the things you're highlighting in this post are plot-derived or plot-related. They're more concerned with characterization and background than anything else. You're not even using the proper terminology to describe the thing you're critiquing, really.

I think its unfair to call sexism in this particular case. The movie is lacking an establishing scene which we see Rey's ability to fly or at the least, her knowledge of it.

You make a comparison to Luke suddenly able to fly an X-Wing but you overlook the fact that he had a "T-16 back home" and we even see it in the background in his second scene in ANH. He even holds a model and "plays" maneuvers with it.

And to respond directly to that post, the comparison you draw with Luke is just as easily drawn to Rey, if you're paying attention to what her house looks like. You don't even have to pay too close attention, either. She lives inside an AT-AT, she's got a doll of an X-wing pilot that gets a shot all by itself, she wears an X-Wing pilot's helmet as she daydreams, there are manuals and such scattered all over the place. It's not very different to Luke sitting in a garage and playing with a toy for a few seconds while Threepio explains how they got off the Star Destroyer.

Luke says he's a pilot, but the only evidence of it is his garage, his toy, and his claims. Rey says she's a pilot, and the only evidence of it is her house, her belongings, and her claims.

They both prove their claims later in the film, as well as revealing their connection to the Force while proving them.

 

[Savitar]

Wedge actually backs up claims of Luke being a good pilot, it's why he gets to fly an X-Wing.

Goes with my earlier statement if you seem capable of flying one thing you suddenly can fly anything.

 

[opoth]

Wedge actually backs up claims of Luke being a good pilot, it's why he gets to fly an X-Wing.

You mean Biggs? It's too bad Rey didn't have anyone living in her AT-AT with her to vouch for her.

 

[Inferno313]

Honestly, being a pilot seems like a fairly common skill in the Star Wars universe. Maybe not as common as being able to drive is in our world, but much more common than being a pilot is for us. Definitely at least as common as having experience driving a motor cycle.

 

[Savitar]

You mean Biggs? It's too bad Rey didn't have anyone living in her AT-AT with her to vouch for her.

Yeah Biggs. There's a scene of him saying Luke is the best bush pilot or the like to the guy in charge of who gets to go.

 

[Blackthorn]

What you're doing in the quoted post below isn't an "honest dissection of the plot structure" and in fact has almost nothing to do with the plotting of the film at all. None of the things you're highlighting in this post are plot-derived or plot-related. They're more concerned with characterization and background than anything else. You're not even using the proper terminology to describe the thing you're critiquing, really.



And to respond directly to that post, the comparison you draw with Luke is just as easily drawn to Rey, if you're paying attention to what her house looks like. You don't even have to pay too close attention, either. She lives inside an AT-AT, she's got a doll of an X-wing pilot that gets a shot all by itself, she wears an X-Wing pilot's helmet as she daydreams, there are manuals and such scattered all over the place. It's not very different to Luke sitting in a garage and playing with a toy for a few seconds while Threepio explains how they got off the Star Destroyer.

Luke says he's a pilot, but the only evidence of it is his garage, his toy, and his claims. Rey says she's a pilot, and the only evidence of it is her house, her belongings, and her claims.

They both prove their claims later in the film, as well as revealing their connection to the Force while proving them.

There's more: she also has knowledge of the ships in the junkyard, and runs towards the one she knows to be working. Pretty safe to assume she's flown the one she was running towards before.

I think people get confused by the fact she's not left the planet. It's not because she can't, it's because she doesn't want to.

 

[QuantumZebra]

What you're doing in the quoted post below isn't an "honest dissection of the plot structure" and in fact has almost nothing to do with the plotting of the film at all. None of the things you're highlighting in this post are plot-derived or plot-related. They're more concerned with characterization and background than anything else. You're not even using the proper terminology to describe the thing you're critiquing, really.



And to respond directly to that post, the comparison you draw with Luke is just as easily drawn to Rey, if you're paying attention to what her house looks like. You don't even have to pay too close attention, either. She lives inside an AT-AT, she's got a doll of an X-wing pilot that gets a shot all by itself, she wears an X-Wing pilot's helmet as she daydreams, there are manuals and such scattered all over the place. It's not very different to Luke sitting in a garage and playing with a toy for a few seconds while Threepio explains how they got off the Star Destroyer.

Luke says he's a pilot, but the only evidence of it is his garage, his toy, and his claims. Rey says she's a pilot, and the only evidence of it is her house, her belongings, and her claims.

They both prove their claims later in the film, as well as revealing their connection to the Force while proving them.

Yep.

But judging from the critique of Rey by many, claiming to be a pilot only works if you're a dude. If you're a lady we're gonna put your ass under a microscope and fry you.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Goes with my earlier statement if you seem capable of flying one thing you suddenly can fly anything.

Yeah, piloting starcraft doesn't seem to be all that complicated a deal in Star Wars, honestly. It seems way more analogous to driving a car than anything.

Leia co-pilots the Falcon in Star Wars, and actually takes lead in Empire, by the way.

 

[3rdman]

Luke went from "I shot rats in a glorified cessna" to "blow up indestructible space station using the force and essentially blind" in a week

But that's legit so whatevs.

If we are comparing...

1. We physically see Luke next to his T-16.
2. He holds and manipulates the model and practices maneuvers.
3. In Mos Eisely, he tells Han that he is a pretty good pilot.
4. Obi Wan tells Luke that he heard that he's become a pretty good pilot "like his father".
5. He complains to his uncle that he wants to leave Tatooine and join the academy (presumably as a pilot)

The point is that there were hints and straight up explanations that he already had skill. In TFA...nothing is mentioned until she is seconds away from jumping into the falcon.

Lastly, this is nitpicking to the nth degree I admit but its also an honest point and it has merit. From a screenwriting/plot point of view, it's missing back story and what else is there to do in these thread than pick.

By the way, you really should check yourself before making accusations of sexism...It's rude and (at least here) unfounded, I assure you.

 

[Savitar]

Yeah, piloting starcraft doesn't seem to be all that complicated a deal in Star Wars, honestly. It seems way more analogous to driving a car than anything.

Pretty much so.

Not like every one can do it, but then not every one of us drives a car either.

 

[KadeYuy]

When Finn and Rey are talking over eachother excitedly Rey says she has flown a lot but never left the atmosphere or something like that.

I could be wrong but I think that's what she says. It'll be easier to catch when its on blu ray.

 

[QuantumZebra]

If we are comparing...

1. We physically see Luke next to his T-16.
2. He holds and manipulates the model and practices maneuvers.
3. In Mos Eisely, he tells Han that he is a pretty good pilot.
4. Obi Wan tells Luke that he heard that he's become a pretty good pilot "like his father".
5. He complains to his uncle that he wants to leave Tatooine and join the academy (presumably as a pilot)

The point is that there were hints and straight up explanations that he already had skill. In TFA...nothing is mentioned until she is seconds away from jumping into the falcon.

Lastly, this is nitpicking to the nth degree I admit but its also an honest point and it has merit. From a screenwriting/plot point of view, it's missing back story and what else is there to do in these thread than pick.

By the way, you really should check yourself before making accusations of sexism...It's rude and (at least here) unfounded, I assure you.

I was not singling you out (trust me, there's PLENTY of people just tearing her down based on gender alone, we are not wanting for examples of this) - but as you stated, that is nitpicking down to the bare bones.

Instead of discussing cool shit like Rey's lineage, Kenobi's involvement, etc... people are tearing apart Rey's character to point out flaws like "SEE! She couldn't have possibly done this IRL!!!!" as if this isn't a movie about space wizards with laser swords.

If she were a man then this discussion simply would not exist.

 

[opoth]

The point is that there were hints and straight up explanations that he already had skill. In TFA...nothing is mentioned until she is seconds away from jumping into the falcon.

Lastly, this is nitpicking to the nth degree I admit but its also an honest point and it has merit. From a screenwriting/plot point of view, it's missing back story and what else is there to do in these thread than pick.

By the way, you really should check yourself before making accusations of sexism...It's rude and (at least here) unfounded, I assure you.

So the point is, you can only be a good pilot if you're not living in complete isolation. If no one else can see you pilot something, does that mean you can't be a pilot? If Lucas had made this movie, we would have had a 15 minute explanation of her piloting prowess. I'll take the 1 minute of showing instead of telling that we see in Rey's living quarters to establish her credentials.

 

[LegendofLex]

If we are comparing...

1. We physically see Luke next to his T-16.
2. He holds and manipulates the model and practices maneuvers.
3. In Mos Eisely, he tells Han that he is a pretty good pilot.
4. Obi Wan tells Luke that he heard that he's become a pretty good pilot "like his father".
5. He complains to his uncle that he wants to leave Tatooine and join the academy (presumably as a pilot)

The point is that there were hints and straight up explanations that he already had skill. In TFA...nothing is mentioned until she is seconds away from jumping into the falcon.

Rey:

1) Knows her way around a wide range of ships mechanically, and knows which parts are valuable (implied: why they're valuable).

2) Specifically, she knows her way around the Falcon (the one spacefaring craft she ever actually flies during the film) and we learn (posthumously) that she was aware of the modifications that were made to it and knows enough about them to form professional opinions that straight-up match those of its former owner.

3) Is actually seen piloting a speeder in what seems to be a daily exercise for her. (More than we ever actually witness for Luke before he hops in his X-Wing.)

4) When fleeing with Finn, she mentions that she's a pilot.

5) She later mentions that she's never flown off-world before (implied: she's flown before, but never left the atmosphere).

6) We see her don a fighter helmet and stare longingly at a ship leaving the atmosphere during her meal scene. Prior to that, we see that she handmade a doll based on a Rebel Alliance pilot. Later, she comments admirably about the Resistance. (Taken together with the rest of the evidence, how is this any different than Luke complaining to his uncle that he wants to join the Academy?).

What seems to really be going on here is that you have people who are willing to trust the fact that a male character is a skilled pilot based on mere words and suggestions but not willing to trust the fact that a female character is a skilled pilot even when her abilities are supported by her occupation and background.

They might not be doing it intentionally or consciously, but there's a different level of scrutiny being applied to Rey than people are applying to Luke.

 

[Digital-Hero]

More info on the book: It's canon.

STAR WARS BEFORE THE AWAKENING is an anthology book that focuses on the lives of Rey, Finn, and Poe before the events of the Star Wars The Force Awakens....

http://howefit.ca/pdf/25319258/01-2016/star-wars.html

From Before the Awakening: Rey LEARNS HOW TO PILOT SHIPS FROM A FLIGHT SIMULATOR she spends her free time with before the events of the film.


Remember a flight simulator is a little different from the real thing. Which is why she ends up crashing the falcon at the start.

 

[Surfinn]

More info on the book: It's canon.

Star Wars Before the Awakening is an anthology book that focuses on the lives of Rey, Finn, and Poe before the events of the Star Wars The Force Awakens....

http://howefit.ca/pdf/25319258/01-2016/star-wars.html

From Before the Awakening: Rey LEARNS HOW TO PILOT SHIPS FROM A FLIGHT SIMULATOR she spends her free time with before the events of the film.

The book also states that she finds, restores, and eventually flies a ship on Jakku. One of the best parts, in my opinion. The whole novel feels like an extension of the movie; I was really surprised.

 

[opoth]

They might not be doing it intentionally or consciously, but there's a different level of scrutiny being applied to Rey than people are applying to Luke.

Tribalism (whether we're talking race OR gender) is hugely common and most people don't even realize they're guilty of it.

 

[LegendofLex]

More info on the book: It's canon.

Stuffing information that's critical to people's understanding of the characters in a piece of not-film merchandising for a film franchise, regardless of its canon status, isn't a good way to tell a story in a film.

I suggest you rely on the information already given in the film, most of which already alludes to this kind of stuff.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What's going on here is that you have people who are willing to trust the fact that a male character is a skilled pilot based on mere words and suggestions but not willing to trust the fact that a female character is a skilled pilot even when her abilities are supported by her occupation and background.

Yup. I think a lot of people aren't even taking that into consideration when they begin to lodge their complaints. We were discussing similar shit last night in the thread, and essentially it traces back to the idea that people are having a problem identifying with Rey, period, and they're not sure why, so they nitpick the shit out of the background, characterization, world-building, and plotting to see if they can find why they're tripping over her character so hard.

But it's probably not so much the plotting, or the characterization, as it is they have to actually work a little to put themselves in her shoes whereas they've never had to do that before in a Star Wars movie, because Star Wars has very consistently, thoroughly, made it very easy for a little boy to identify with the bigger boys doing the heroic shit onscreen.

But that kind of concept sometimes feels vague and nebulous and is often dismissed out of hand because it feels sort of dickish once you start to put your finger on it.

 

[Inferno313]

More info on the book: It's canon.

STAR WARS BEFORE THE AWAKENING is an anthology book that focuses on the lives of Rey, Finn, and Poe before the events of the Star Wars The Force Awakens....

http://howefit.ca/pdf/25319258/01-2016/star-wars.html

From Before the Awakening: Rey LEARNS HOW TO PILOT SHIPS FROM A FLIGHT SIMULATOR she spends her free time with before the events of the film.

Look, I'm totally with the "Rey is not a Mary Sue" side, but outside materials shouldn't be used to excuse any theoretical gaps in a film. A film needs to stand and work on it's own.

Especially when all the necessary information to prove your point is in the film.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

I think Rey is just a child who is connected to the jedi training Luke started. Maybe she was a student, maybe her parents were.

She could be related to some character, but people would be groaning everywhere if she's related to Luke, Obi-Wan, Leia or Han. I think Disney strategically made only one of the new characters a relative to the previous generation of character's.

Just imagine how much people would groan if it turns out Rey is related to Luke, Ben is related to Han and Leia and Finn is related to Lando or something. Lucasfilm and Disney knows that it's too much fanfiction for general audiences to accept it.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Stuffing information that's critical to people's understanding of the characters in a piece of not-film merchandising for a film franchise, regardless of its canon status, isn't a good way to tell a story in a film.

I suggest you rely on the information already given in the film, most of which already alludes to this kind of stuff.

Look, I'm totally with the "Rey is not a Mary Sue" side, but outside materials shouldn't be used to excuse any theoretical gaps in a film. A film needs to stand and work on it's own.

Especially when all the necessary information to prove your point is in the film.

How is flying the Falcon critical to the story? It ultimately doesn't need to be explained. Luke's flying skills was just as ambiguous.

Crop dusting to flying a fighter in combat is much different. Rey didn't even fly as an attacker, but evaded as Finn shot from the turret.

Ultimately, Rey's case is even better than Lukes.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

How is flying the Falcon critical to the story?

All people are saying is that while the merchandising and print material can help for those who choose to seek it out, it shouldn't be presented as primary evidence of a thing you're trying to explain in a movie, especially when the movie itself already contains the information needed to address said complaints.

So basically, "but this book..." doesn't ever have the effect you'll want it to.

Just imagine how much people would groan if it turns out Rey is related to Luke,

I think if that was going to be the case it woulda happened by now, considering how strongly the film hints at it.

 

[EGM1966]

Jesus people. Films have on average 2 hours to tell and entire tale. It's absolutely fine and accepted that if a character says "I can....fly, walk, drive, touch my nose with my tongue" if they then proceed to demonstrate this is true we're done.

Sure there's bonus marks for visual clues or other backdrop "proofs" but they're not necessary.

Bottom line even without seeing Rey sit in a pilot's helmet, know where ships are parked, watch ships take off knowingly, know how to plunder ships, drive a floating vehicle (just like Luke) and have decoration in her home that applies to flying, just having her run to a ship, claim to be able to fly, then fly is fine in a film.

When someone in a non SF/fantasy film jumps in a car and drives do we demand to see their license or proof they took lessons?

There are issues with the plot in TFA, mainly structural and mostly centered around lack of focus on the core maguffin (Luke) dilluted by the totally unecessary Starkiller base but Rey turning out to be able to fly isn't one of them. It's handled perfectly fine by the rules of film making and it's not that much of a surprise that if Luke (a farmboy who's so isolated he isn't even in a small town but literally in the middle of nowhere outside the closest small town) is able to fly a spaceship that Rey, who is clearly in similar circumstances but is actually in a small town with actual space ships present, would be able to as well if she had the urge (which the shots of her with the pilots helmet, etc. confirm she has).

Jesus can't we talk about the actual flaws (and good things) instead of looping around imaginary flaws raised time and time again by people who I get are passionate about Star Wars and its rules but whom I'm convinced know little about film rules. TFA is a film first and foremost, those rules apply over SW "maybe" canon or fan arguments of what they think would "really happen" in Star Wars land. It's all fake. It's a film. You evaluate it as a film. (this sounds harsh I guess).

 

[DragonSworne]

How is flying the Falcon critical to the story? It ultimately doesn't need to be explained. Luke's flying skills was just as ambiguous.

People really wanted this movie to be 5 hours long. I don'the blame them, I would love to see Rey learn to fly.

 

[Valdfellgar]

Yep.

But judging from the critique of Rey by many, claiming to be a pilot only works if you're a dude. If you're a lady we're gonna put your ass under a microscope and fry you.

You know, I don't think it's fair to play the sexism card to delegitimize people's arguments. There are differences between Luke and Rey's portrayals and progression towards showing what they can and cannot do and that, in of itself, can lead to the differing opinions between whether Luke was justified in being a good pilot or Rey a good pilot. And by jumping to "latent sexism" you're not treating the person you're arguing with with respect.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

When someone in a non SF/fantasy film jumps in a car and drives do we demand to see their license or proof they took lessons?

Jesus can't we talk about the actual flaws (and good things) instead of looping around imaginary flaws raised time and time again by people who I get are passionate about Star Wars and its rules but whom I'm convinced know little about film rules. TFA is a film first and foremost, those rules apply over SW "maybe" canon or fan arguments of what they think would "really happen" in Star Wars land. It's all fake. It's a film. You evaluate it as a film. (this sounds harsh I guess).

I like these bits. Thanks man.

You know, I don't think it's fair to play the sexism card to delegitimize people's arguments.

I dunno. I feel like "the sexism card" gets pulled when the argument's already been delegitimized, as an answer to why such an illegitimate argument might have been pushed to that extent.

I feel like the argument is more or less illegitimate, too, especially when taking into account the other Star Wars films and protagonists and the ways their characterizations were built over time.

 

[DrForester]

Look, I'm totally with the "Rey is not a Mary Sue" side, but outside materials shouldn't be used to excuse any theoretical gaps in a film. A film needs to stand and work on it's own.

Especially when all the necessary information to prove your point is in the film.

Yes, it would be nice if that stuff made it into the film. However the film does prove her flying skills by having her flying the ship. We don't really need to know where she got the skill when there's enough to infer. She calls her self a pilot when she's running with Finn, and she clearly has mechanical skills. That's good enough to go on.

Kylo Ren stopped a blaster shot in mid air. Do we need to know exactly HOW he learned that skill? We know Luke didn't know that.

 

[LegendofLex]

How is flying the Falcon critical to the story? It ultimately doesn't need to be explained. Luke's flying skills was just as ambiguous.

Rey flying the Falcon is a really big character moment that, if it really did come out of nowhere and really wasn't plausible to an audience that didn't read supplementary book material, loses its impact. (IMO the fact that anyone finds it implausible is pretty dumb anyway since there isn't a character in Star Wars who can't fly a ship when the time comes.)

I'm saying that trying to drag the books into this gives the impression that the moment doesn't stand on its own within the film.

 

[Inferno313]

How is flying the Falcon critical to the story? It ultimately doesn't need to be explained. Luke's flying skills was just as ambiguous.

Crop dusting to flying a fighter in combat is much different. Rey didn't even fly as an attacker, but evaded as Finn shot from the turret.

Ultimately, Rey's case is even better than Lukes.

We're not disagreeing with you, we're just saying that arguing the point with outside material isn't necessary and is a bad way to analyze films.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Rey flying the Falcon is a really big character moment that, if it really did come out of nowhere and really wasn't plausible to an audience that didn't read supplementary book material, loses its impact.

I'm saying that trying to drag the books into this gives the impression that the moment doesn't stand on its own within the film.

She states in the film that she is a pilot. That isn't enough?

What next? A movie on how Rey knows how to cook her food?

I disagree, sorry. This doesn't appear to be pertinent to moving the story.

 

[LegendofLex]

She states in the film that she is a pilot. That isn't enough?

What next? A movie on how Rey knows how to cook her food?

When did I say it wasn't enough?

The entire line of argument is that it is enough and dragging the books into this just gives the impression that it isn't and that people should just consider what's in the books.

It's a bad way to critique a franchise that most people experience almost if not entirely exclusively through the films.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Before The Awakening's a good read. Hopefully Rucka's got more Star Wars work planned. I liked Shattered Empire even though it felt a bit short/rushed.

 

[Surfinn]

I honestly don't really get the criticism of her flying skills. She grew up scavenging parts for nearly her whole life (which was necessary for her survival on Jakku); the film literally shows you how she knows the inside and out of the star destroyer (can you imagine how many times she's actually been there over the years?), and since she's a Skywalker and is strong with the force, she naturally has incredible reflexes and foresight, just like the Skywalkers that came before her.

I thought that was all one needed to know in order to enjoy what was shown in the film.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Kylo Ren stopped a blaster shot in mid air. Do we need to know exactly HOW he learned that skill? We know Luke didn't know that.

This is a pretty good point. Most people, even those disappointed with the character because he's "Emo" and "A whiny bitch," don't question how such an emo whiny bitch learned something like that. I haven't seen too many questions as to how/why the film neglected to set up his ability sufficiently to make it believable.

Dudes just automatically rolled with it and came up with their own answers later as to how/why he learned it, perfunctory as they probably were (Snoke taught him, Snoke seems to know what he's doing, He's just that badass, whatever) in order to better enjoy the badassery. There wasn't ever, at any point, any dialog establishing either Snoke OR Kylo as highly trained Force Users. It was just taken as read. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But they got a pass with way less textual evidence in the film than was presented for Rey's abilities as they came to the fore during the film.

So Kylo Ren:

Can put people on pause within 5 minutes of the film opening and nobody questions it, even AFTER it's shown he's nowhere near as skilled/composed as he presents himself.

But Rey:

Can't fly a starship through her own backyard without the film having to thoroughly, via dialog and set design, establish her skill as a pilot/driver.

I know people think it's unfair to slap down "The sexism card" latent or otherwise, when it comes to these sorts of discussions, but looking at that sorta shit, it seems like something you kinda have to take into account even a little bit, as unpleasant as it might be.

 

[DragonSworne]

I think the issue is mostly to do with it being the Millennium Falcon.

If it was any other ship people wouldn't have an issue. But it's the falcon! People have built a mysticism around the ship that it's jarring to see someone else fly it without Han on it.