I've been absent for those discussions... For what it's with, Rey is easily my favorite of the new characters and have no problem with a female lead
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Digital-Hero
Member
And I love the fact she has difficulty flying it and even says in the film that "she doesn't have a co-pilot" when trying to reach other controls.
The Librarian
Banned
Ever since this started with Max Landis citing 4chan, I've known where this "controversy" stems from.
It's not that really.
...It's just that I can't over the fact that the character is English.
Alx
Member
That's actually the part of the movie I found the least believable by the way. That's not how I pictured the Force "working", telekinesis shouldn't block energy, let alone freeze it in time and release it later to continue as it was.
But then I shrugged it off like other far-fetched elements of a fantasy movie.
Digital-Hero
Member
Well Lando managed and the films (including TFA) make it clear it's had other owners. I get the importance of the ship in mythology terms but it shouldn't be confused with practicality either.
The do show her struggling with the ship initially too which implies its a bit different than she's used to but she comes to grips with it. They also use dialogue nicely (Finn's doubting tone) to underscore the moment and make it clear questioning Rey on appearances is unwise and arguably unfair.
In the end it's like assuming only Kirk and crew could fly the Enterprise. It's a ship in a fictional world that anyone with the appropriate skills would be able to fly. The "special" element is purely psychological attribution from fans and nothing else.
Anyway I'm done with this. Bobby and others have pointed out it's a flawed argument.
Next in an attempt to introduce some plot musings I'll post what I believe (based purely on TFA "as is" not anything from other media which I haven't touched) should have replaced the Starkiller base plot strand as I feel that's the weakest element of the film plot structure wise.
Digital-Hero
Member
People don't realize the biggest question Force Awaken leaves us with is if Luke is still a virgin.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
C'mon, he must have had all kinds of strange after blowing up the Death Star.
Inferno313
Banned
I think, as of now, the Star Killer base is kind of a lame Death Star knock-off, I agree.
However, I think that it could potentially effect the galactic conflict in a much different and bigger way than the Death Star did, something we'll have to see play out in the sequels.
The Death Star was used by the galactic government to destroy one semi-important planet that was involved in a rebellion.
Star Killer base was fired AT the galactic government, and destroyed an entire system, including what is probably the single most important planet at that point in time for that government.
I think where VIII and IX have to go is to a full-on large-scale war between The New Republic and The First Order, (especially considering The Resistance was left with about 3 X-Wings.) Possibly a conflict with an even larger scale than The Clone Wars.
The Librarian
Banned
Unless he got it on with some men, there wouldn't have been any women. Remember: Leia was the only woman shown on screen for lost of the film!
I agree. I'm thinking that this will be a much bigger deal in future films. It's important to remember that not only was the system destroyed, but the entire Republic Fleet was lost as well (you actually even see it destroyed if you look closely enough). The First Order lost a big base, but I assume they still have some Star Destroyers around. Overall, it was probably a net win for the First Order.
As weird as it sounds, until TFA, I never really saw the Falcon as a run down/piece of junk. Maybe it was the whole poisonous gas scene that made it feel dangerous for once.
The original trilogy made it feel like the equivalent of a tail light being out or something.
Half the plot of ESB comes about because the Falcon is broken, doesn't it?
In fact, you could probably say Han getting frozen in carbonate, and therefore Luke losing a hand, is directly because the hyperdrive is busted, so they have to hitch a ride on the Star Destroyer, and do the float in trash trick, which allows Fett to follow them.
So what? Seriously why does this matter one iota? The film establishes she's a pilot, thoroughly.
Inferno313
Banned
Yeah, and everyone calls it a "hunk of junk" and shits on it for the entire OT.
Digital-Hero
Member
All fixed by R2 rotating a wire.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Was fixed by Lando's peepz.
Digital-Hero
Member
True, I guess it was more disabled than broken again. Still, rotating a wire.
Flipping a switch can do marvelous things.
It doesn't matter...at all. As I said, it's nit picking and (in my opinon) the character is lacking in back story up to that point. It's not a big deal but I do see the problem and I am simply acknowledging it and bringing it up it is does not equate to sexism...which is why I posted in the first place, that's all.
Clearly, I'm in the minority so whatever...I was thinking though that I kinda had the same problem with Star Trek (2009). How the hell did Kirk get control of the Enterprise so damn quick...made no damn sense... Perhaps its an Abrams thing.
I finally saw the movie and it was really good! I'm not a SW fan and I just have seen the original trilogy forever ago yet I didn't have any problems with the story or characters. Lot's and lot's of action, very fast paced with literally zero boring conversation scenes. I just found the final battle between Rey and Kylo a bit cheesy but goddamn so glad Rey kicked his ass.
Not for this post in particular, but on the whole Rey/pilot thing, couple of very important points.
1. This is a movie. Movies usually don't strive for completely explainable realities where all the twists make sense in an objective viewpoint.
2. This is a Star Wars movie. Star Wars has never been about technological/science stuff making sense. From an X-Wing fighter that can fly between star systems, crash in mud, get pulled out, and then immediately fly off to another star system without ever even being refueled to a super fast space ship that only visibly gets repaired via blow torch application to different areas of the ship. *insert Chewbacca sitting on top of the ship with a blowtorch "fixing" it pic*
If you're looking for a long-reaching Sci-Fi series that actually tries to take into account real science and technology, go watch Star Trek (pre-reboot) and read the tech manuals.
Just enjoy the movie people and don't knock it a peg because we aren't shown how Rey is capable of flying the Millenium Falcon so well outside of her undefined force awareness which allows her to see things before they happen resulting in the appearance of super reflexes (
Stop making me remember Episode 1 stuff!
Going to see it again tomorrow, hopefully there's still gonna be a lot of people their that haven't seen it since hearing their reactions was so much fun the last time.
Like right after Han was killed, the guy beside me whispered to himelf "jesus fucking christ" and when Rey grabbed the lightsaber there was a young girl infront of me that was so damn excited. Wanna see that again!
Like right after Han was killed, the guy beside me whispered to himelf "jesus fucking christ" and when Rey grabbed the lightsaber there was a young girl infront of me that was so damn excited. Wanna see that again!
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Even that's pretty much bullshit. Things were more or less sci-fi magic in Star Trek, too. Physicists and mathematicians were inspired by Star Trek, sure. But most of the shit in Star Trek doesn't make any real sense, and isn't based on real science, either. That merchandising came up with a bunch of technical manuals after the fact doesn't really mean much. Star Wars has the same shit to loosely explain the made-up magic science they use to travel the stars, too.
Star Trek doesn't really try to take into account real science and technology, but real scientists do take Star Trek into account.
They slingshot around the sun to time travel based on coordinates Spock pulled from his brain shortly after his soul was placed back in his body via the human USB stick that was McCoy.
Sorry if this was already posted today.
Really amazing Star Wars wallpapers
http://imgur.com/gallery/FyukP/
Really amazing Star Wars wallpapers
http://imgur.com/gallery/FyukP/
I've seen the movie five times now (sixth is happening for my birthday later in the month); half of the fun in theaters is experiencing other people's reactions, especially if it's their first time watching the movie.
I'll add: I cannot believe how lifeless some of my viewings have been. Luckily, we sat next to a few people who had a sense of humor and laughed during the more comedic moments of the film but.. wow, we were alone laughing/reacting to the film almost all of the times we went (me and my GF).
I mean, I guess that's much better than seeing the movie with a bunch of obnoxious idiots, but come on! The movie is funny and full of fantastic moments.
Warp travel:
In Star Trek world, they enter subspace prior to reaching lightspeed in normal space thus preserving Einstein's limitation on speed of space travel in normal space.
In Star Wars world, they go into hyperspace that apparently maxes out at ".5 past light speed" yet can get between planets that should be light years apart in hours.
Structures:
In Star Trek world, they invented things like Structural Integrity Fields to artificially increase the natural structural qualities of materials and allow them to withstand the unnatural accelerations and decelerations involved with multiple times light speed interstellar travel. Also, inertial dampeners are there to dampen the force of inertia (heh) that would otherwise turn us all into jelly at the first tap of the brakes.
In Star Wars world, you can have ships falling apart and on fire successfully reach hyperspace without being pulled to pieces. No mention of inertia and no attempts at reconciling it.
It's not that Star Trek is real science. It's that they try to actively explain how they make the leaps beyond known physical laws/limitations to get where they are instead of the massive amounts of nothing that Star Wars gives.
So if you're looking for a Sci-Fi series that even tries to connect the dots to make things make sense technologically, Star Wars is not where you want to be looking.
In Star Trek world, they enter subspace prior to reaching lightspeed in normal space thus preserving Einstein's limitation on speed of space travel in normal space.
In Star Wars world, they go into hyperspace that apparently maxes out at ".5 past light speed" yet can get between planets that should be light years apart in hours.
Structures:
In Star Trek world, they invented things like Structural Integrity Fields to artificially increase the natural structural qualities of materials and allow them to withstand the unnatural accelerations and decelerations involved with multiple times light speed interstellar travel. Also, inertial dampeners are there to dampen the force of inertia (heh) that would otherwise turn us all into jelly at the first tap of the brakes.
In Star Wars world, you can have ships falling apart and on fire successfully reach hyperspace without being pulled to pieces. No mention of inertia and no attempts at reconciling it.
It's not that Star Trek is real science. It's that they try to actively explain how they make the leaps beyond known physical laws/limitations to get where they are instead of the massive amounts of nothing that Star Wars gives.
So if you're looking for a Sci-Fi series that even tries to connect the dots to make things make sense technologically, Star Wars is not where you want to be looking.
Inferno313
Banned
The nerd in me has to point out that the last one doesn't make sense. Why would fully grown Boba Fett be at a Clone Wars battle? He was like 12 when the war began, and that war only lasted 3 years.
They're all gorgeous though.
Blue Ninja
Member
Star Wars is more science fantasy than science fiction, anyway.
Exactly, and I very much appreciate it for what it is! It's fun stuff!! (^_^)
Yeah god, there is nothing worse than being called sexist based on no more than your actions of nitpicking the abilities of a female character, in the way that is never done to a male character.
Truly the greatest crime you can have committed against you.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
What a boring comment.
I agree. This kind of visual shorthand is there all over Rey's section and it's easy to miss on first viewing. A second viewing really does help.
Hearing kids getting surprised/excited/asking parents questions is my favorite part of going to see this movie.
Hit a nerve I see.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Sure, I guess.
Just Thought you could have done better.
Valdfellgar
Banned
Wow. Okay, I never said it was the worst crime committed. Those are your words. But labeling someone as sexist simply for criticizing a female character, and attempting to explain why they didn't have problems with a similar male character is rude.
Would you enjoy it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's happened in this discussion somewhere, if your points/feelings were swept under a rug by telling you you're simply starved for prominent female characters that you'll even settle for the most basic and weak female characterization? Either example is rude and undermines the entire point of even discussing each other's takes. Why bother?
It's like you're not even trying to engage them in a discussion, you'd rather vilify their position, just as you've done with mine by taking my words and twisting them to extremes. Where the heck is the respect?
More like MRE-5U am I right? Sheesh even droids get a pass!
Weird I don't remember that. This is in the beginning of A New Hope?
LegendofLex
Member
It's a pretty common pattern that comes up whenever a woman is depicted/described as being able to do things that men have traditionally done.
People will question the woman's ability to do any or all those things despite that same skepticism never having been prominently levied at the man.
When others question the fact that the woman is being scrutinized in ways that men aren't, the response is frequently to hide behind the "you're trying to label me as sexist, but I'm not sexist" defense and accuse critics of lacking respect for dissenting opinions.
I like the way it's subtle. I have a feeling modern film makers would have had a shot focusing on it saying "Look this is my ship!"
Also in old canon a t16 was used by the rebels as a training ship for X Wings as it controlled very similarly.
But this is why it's boring. You've just said its a "common pattern" which means you're fitting posters into schema you've already developed instead of engaging discussion. That's called prejudice: you're primed to see some underlying motive without actually doing the work to discover if it's here.
Also Fencedude's comment isn't "questioning", it's condescending, sarcastic, arrogant, presumptive.
Thing is, her character is being criticized in ways that males are criticised as well. Her character is being criticized from a film perspective, from a writing perspective. The fact that she is her own distinct character means she will have distinct criticism that pertain to the movie as a whole.
So when people make lazy and trite dismissals of criticism as if they are coming from a place of sexism. It is quite frankly annoying. I've seen some concerning posts, I've even played the sexism card a few times over these 3 threads. But then you get people who frequently ascribe criticism levered against Rey as sexism. Not only does it dilute their position on concerns over sexism, but it hurts their case. It's also pretty disrespectful, and usurps a fair dispute over criticism.
Valdfellgar
Banned
Exactly, thank you, better response than I could've given.
In my second viewing this past weekend, at the end as I left a girl about 6-7 years old exclaimed, "that was AWESOME!"
It made me smile.
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