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[heidern]

Self defense is not the dark side.

This says to me you're like Luke in ESB and don't understand Yoda what was trying to communicate. Yoda is the strongest with the force, he was winning against the Emperor. If he continued the fight he would have killed him. But he had the insight that killing the Emperor wouldn't defeat the dark side, the cycle would just continue. So he ran away to learn more about the force. Now Luke has had the same insight, destroying Death Stars and the end of the Sith ultimately didn't help matters. There was no point him confronting Kylo when things went wrong again so him hiding away in TFA is him finally seeing sense and following Yoda's footsteps.

The OT establishes very clearly that the most important thing about the Force is knowing you can use it, and freeing yourself to do so. Luke didn't need an academy. He needed to believe in it, and himself.

You make it sound so simple. The whole point of the academy is to teach yourself to free yourself. Freeing yourself is the hard part. Seeing as how both the Darth and the Emperor defeated Luke he very much did need an academy.

This a fundamental misread of Rey's character, and it's one of the major reasons you didn't understand her arc in the film. She's highly intelligent and capable - mechanic, pilot, speaks multiple languages, street fighter. What she has are abandonment issues that hold her down, and her story is learning to overcome them.

A couple scenes later, Snoke is telling Ren about the "awakening" that they both felt. Rey's instinctual piloting of the Falcon was it. It's a critical piece of the film that you missed. That addresses your other issues about her being a good pilot.

She still has abandonment issues in full effect in the Cantina, then she's captured. Then she starts becoming a Jedi genius. There's no learning to overcome a lifetime's abandonment issues presented. People see psychologists for years because of abandonment issues. This would be as bad as Anakins turn to the darkside in RotS.

And like I said, if it's the force suddenly woke up then it's deus ex machina and feminism is back down to zero because she's just a puppet and all of her character, strong will and tenacity counts for nothing.

WHat in God's name is this post. Rey living like a tramp? Get the fuck outta here with that.

She was living in an abandoned AT-AT, so effectively homeless AKA tramp. She's an abandoned child on a tough planet so it doesn't reflect badly on her. She's at the start of her journey. But that's conducive to gradual development not a sudden shift to superwoman. I get it that the force awakens, but having an all powerful force taking the initiative then there's nothing for the characters to do, they're just puppets. There's no striving to improve or learning to overcome obstacles because as soon as things get difficult the force just does everything for them. There's nothing to relate to. All intrigue and mystery is taken away.

 

[Jest Chillin]

This says to me you're like Luke in ESB and don't understand Yoda what was trying to communicate. Yoda is the strongest with the force, he was winning against the Emperor. If he continued the fight he would have killed him. But he had the insight that killing the Emperor wouldn't defeat the dark side, the cycle would just continue. So he ran away to learn more about the force. Now Luke has had the same insight, destroying Death Stars and the end of the Sith ultimately didn't help matters. There was no point him confronting Kylo when things went wrong again so him hiding away in TFA is him finally seeing sense and following Yoda's footsteps.

What the hell is this? Yoda was losing that fight when he ran away. He was at a major disadvantage and cut his losses in hopes that the Jedi could survive. That's specifically why both He and Obi Wan go into hiding and why they seperate and hide both Luke and Leia. To keep Anakin from finding them and raising them to be Darkside users in hopes they can continue the Jedi heritage.

Your take on this stuff is very strange.

 

[Veelk]

And like I said, if it's the force suddenly woke up then it's deus ex machina and feminism is back down to zero because she's just a puppet and all of her character, strong will and tenacity counts for nothing.

I'm not gonna respond to the rest of this nonsense, but even if Rey did get those powers undeserved, I like how this ONE female character being badly written is enough to bring the entire concept of feminism down to zero. She can't just be a representative for herself, she has to be the face of ALL feminism as a whole, apparently.

What the hell is this? Yoda was losing that fight when he ran away. He was at a major disadvantage and cut his losses in hopes that the Jedi could survive. That's specifically why both He and Obi Wan go into hiding and why they seperate and hide both Luke and Leia. To keep Anakin from finding them and raising them to be Darkside users in hopes they can continue the Jedi heritage.

Your take on this stuff is very strange.

He's totally right though, because Yoda killing the emperor would have not have had an affect on the universe as a whole. None whatsoever. The empire wouldn't manifest itself, but honestly, what's that, a couple decades of totalitation regime? And Anakin! His life would be no different, because Force knows Palpatine had no hand at all in his recovery. Hell, the entire OT would have probably happened the same way even if Palps was alive and kickin', and headed by Varth Dader and Skeev Pulpatine.

No, Yoda ran off because he knew that his actions here would ultimately make no difference. Wise little bugger, isn't he?

 

[nomis]

What the hell is this? Yoda was losing that fight when he ran away. He was at a major disadvantage and cut his losses in hopes that the Jedi could survive. That's specifically why both He and Obi Wan go into hiding and why they seperate and hide both Luke and Leia. To keep Anakin from finding them and raising them to be Darkside users in hopes they can continue the Jedi heritage.

Your take on this stuff is very strange.

He delineates his unique process for manufacturing his own head-canon, and yet somehow doesn't realize that he applies his hyper specific personal lens to every action in the movies. No wonder the conclusions reached are so abstruse.

 

[Feep]

Guys look I'm a Mary Sue

(I'm on the left)

(This was at a random house party last night)

 

[Aselith]

She then becomes an ace mechanic and knows Hans ship better than him, ok she's a scavenger so there's some rationale there but if she's this good then she should have been doing better on Jakku than bottom barrel scavenging.

Actually, it's pretty firmly established in the OT that Han is a pretty bad mechanic so it's not really that a good mechanic would be better at working on his ship than he is.

Guys look I'm a Mary Sue

(I'm on the left)

(This was at a random house party last night)

Only Sith have red lightsabers. You're a devil!

 

[Einchy]

A little off topic but does anyone speak Carrie Fisher?

Her tweets make zero sense 90% of the time.

 

[MMarston]

A little off topic but does anyone speak Carrie Fisher?

Her tweets make zero sense 90% of the time.

What are you talking about? This makes total sense.

 

[TCRS]

So where do I get more background info? Should I read the novelization?

 

[Zabka]

And like I said, if it's the force suddenly woke up then it's deus ex machina and feminism is back down to zero because she's just a puppet and all of her character, strong will and tenacity counts for nothing.

You've done it. The dumbest thing I've read about the Force Awakens.

 

[MMarston]

So where do I get more background info? Should I read the novelization?

Everyone seems to say yes.
Visual dictionary may also suffice.

 

[Ozium]

So Snoke is Darth Plagueis right?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

So Snoke is Darth Plagueis right?

Maybe

 

[Shaanyboi]

Hope she likes it

She did! We saw 4 and 5, but it was getting super late so we're saving 6 for Monday.

She thought A New Hope was neat. Wasn't wowed, but was enjoying it. By the time the Death Star assault started, she goes "Okay, I can seriously see why this movie blew people away in 1977." She got a huuuuge kick out of C-3PO and R2 being this awkward shitty married couple. Leia taking control of her own rescue was met with a bit of a cheer, and she liked Han a lot more than I thought she would.

Also when the Jawas were about to appear, she was going "Oh man, are these the demon shih tzus?"

Once Empire started, she instantly was going "Holy crap, this is shot way better..." She loved Chewie way more, and all of Han's little quirks. Loved the stop-motion tauntauns. The Walker assault got a big reaction, both from the spectacle and loving how much more impressive all the miniatures were. Once Yoda came on screen though, she was in love. She thought he was super entertaining. She muttered "this movie is fucking awesome" on more than one occasion. Vader showing up on Cloud City had her let out a huge "OH FUCK". Han getting frozen got a big emotional reaction too. Like, she was in total denial it was happening. And Luke fighting Vader, while she liked it already, the approach to the "I am your father" moment had her going "oh crap, this is it, isn't it?!"

So yeah, she's super invested. She really wasn't interested in Star Wars before (all her previous exposure before were bits and pieces of the prequels), but her roommate convinced her to let us watch these with her. Now she's pumped about watching 6 and 7.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Thanks to TFA, I have bought a ridiculously expensive lightsaber. Fuck you, Abrams.

 

[The Librarian]

"Tramp"

 

[Toxi]

Renny08 makes some cute stuff in a post-"good ending" RotS world:

Adorable.

 

[Yoshichan]

Guys look I'm a Mary Sue

(I'm on the left)

(This was at a random house party last night)

Well done. Better choreographed than the PT.

 

[joedan]

Saw it finally. Points I'd mention...

They did that Phasma storm trooper dirty. They should have given her something badass to do. For such a unique regal-looking stormtrooper she got captured too easily. She should have been the one fighting Finn on that green planet rather than that random stormtrooper with that weird weapon.

I can see why they say FA is a retread of ANH. Did they really have to build another death star? Another droid with a hidden message?

Finn character was lame. Didn't come across as someone who was raised a stormtrooper.

That tentacled monster thing that Han Solo was transporting was really poorly executed. CG-wise and just conceptually. Didn't like it.

Rey was really cool. I like her a lot. Love her teeth

I think she did get too powerful too quickly though. Did not think that she (or Finn) should have been able to stand up to Kylo Renn. Injured or not.

By the way what was that spear thing she was always carrying around on her back? Did she ever use it in the movie? I don't remember.

General Leia was poorly executed. In some interviews I've seen with her she seems to have some kind of speech impediment. I was wondering if because of that they intentionally gave her less lines to deliver. When she spoke her face appeared kinda static as well.

The scene of BB8's reaction when Finn was saying he was part of the Rebel Alliance was the funniest part of the movie.

My favourite scene was when Kylo Renn stopped that laser blast midair.

Scene at the end was great too. Luke Skywalker looked like a badass.

 

[OraleeWey]

Saw it finally. Points I'd mention...

They did that Phasma storm trooper dirty. They should have given her something badass to do. For such a unique regal-looking stormtrooper she got captured too easily. She should have been the one fighting Finn on that green planet rather than that random stormtrooper with that weird weapon.

I can see why they say FA is a retread of ANH. Did they really have to build another death star? Another droid with a hidden message?

Finn character was lame. Didn't come across as someone who was raised a stormtrooper.

That tentacled monster thing that Han Solo was transporting was really poorly executed. CG-wise and just conceptually. Didn't like it.

Rey was really cool. I like her a lot. Love her teeth

I think she did get too powerful too quickly though. Did not think that she (or Finn) should have been able to stand up to Kylo Renn. Injured or not.

By the way what was that spear thing she was always carrying around on her back? Did she ever use it in the movie? I don't remember.

General Leia was poorly executed. In some interviews I've seen with her she seems to have some kind of speech impediment. I was wondering if because of that they intentionally gave her less lines to deliver. When she spoke her face appeared kinda static as well.

The scene of BB8's reaction when Finn was saying he was part of the Rebel Alliance was the funniest part of the movie.

My favourite scene was when Kylo Renn stopped that laser blast midair.

Scene at the end was great too. Luke Skywalker looked like a badass.

She used it when Finn first saw her. She was being attacked and defended herself.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

 

[tchocky]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

Well Vader had the advantage of about 30 years of Jedi/Sith training. I expect the next couple of films will contrast Rey and Ren learning each side of the force leading up to a final confrontation with them both at full power in the third movie.

 

[-griffy-]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

Vader was the ultimate badass in ANH already. We are actually seeing Kylo go through a character progression. He's going through what Luke went through in the OT essentially, only he's an evil shit.

 

[Fencedude]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

>its like the opposite of your typical bad guys

And this is a bad thing?

 

[Randam]

So Snoke is Darth Plagueis right?

srsly, if that is the case then fuck disney, fuck lucas, fuck star wars..

 

[Africanus]

4 was the first time we saw Mind Trick and force suicide
5 was the first time we saw force jump and force push/pull
6 was the first time we saw force lightning
1 was the first time we saw force speed
2 and 3 were bad and I don't remember
7 was the first time we saw force laser stop and force flashback

So ... what new force power do you guys want in 8 ?

You forgot force choke in 4.
And 6 had force mind read.
3 had... 3 had...

 

[demosthenes]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

Yea but he was bleeding out and toying with his food. He wanted Finn to suffer, he hated Finn as everything in the movie is Finns fault.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

So Snoke is Darth Plagueis right?

No.

http://geektyrant.com/news/andy-serkis-talks-supreme-leader-snoke-and-confirm-hes-not-darth-plagueis

http://www.slashfilm.com/snoke-darth-plagueis-theories-are-wrong/2/

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

He's just murdered his own father and isn't 100% that it was the right thing to do. He's not exactly on form. Moreover, the whole point is that he is poor compared to Vader. He doesn't really get what Vader was.

 

[Montresor]

I thought this movie was good. But that's it. This is the movie that made +$1billion, has broken all sorts of records, and has all this hype? That's it? is all I could think.

The movie's biggest strengths were the three main characters. I loved Rey, Finn, and Oscar Isaac's character so much. Especially Rey. Loved how bad ass, smart, funny, etc... she was.

The villain was a joke to me. When he took off his mask I thought he's supposed to be the big villain in this movie?. He looks like a kid. When the villain killed Han Solo I just rolled my eyes - could not bring myself to care. It was so predictable. Literally the only thought that came through my head was "Hmmph, so this must been have been the huge spoiler everyone was posting on Youtube comments, Facebook comments, etc..." and nothing more.

The story was boring to me - just a series of tedious action set pieces. Once the villain captured Rey I was hoping that the movie would then end there on a cliffhanger but it just dragged on and on for what felt like 30 more minutes.

I still think it was a good movie, but my expectations of the movie were much higher. I'm glad I watched it because I love Rey, Finn, and Oscar Isaac's character (and Oscar Isaac's droid too). And there were some shots I loved: a) Rey and Finn running on planet Jakku towards a ship that blows up, then Rey saying "The garbage will do", and b) Finn's light sabre fight with the villain at the end in the snow. But the villain was non-intimidating, the story was boring, the action was overall was boring, etc...

 

[Grover Cleveland]

Super powerful and emotionally unstable would scare me more than a cold faceless cyborg, but that's just me.

 

[Discotheque]

i have gotten really lukewarm on it. it really tempered my star wars hype now. prolly a 6.5/7 out of 10

but i would not call ben ren a weakness in the film. every scene he had (except for some boring shit with Space Gollum) was really entertaining. he was the most intriguing new character. poe has mad potential though, most excited for new scenes with isaac. and rey and finn have a lot of room for improvement but they didn't botch anything.

just wish the script was better.

 

[Kin5290]

I love how Ben is pretty much an explicit commentary on Vader fanboys, but so many people completely miss the point and reveal themselves to be Vader fanboys.

 

[Window]

I love how Ben is pretty much an explicit commentary on Vader fanboys, but so many people completely miss the point and reveal themselves to be Vader fanboys.

Maybe it's because I don't keep up with my Star Wars fandom news but I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually champion Vader's moral code (unlike the The Joker). People like him because he's a cool character right?

 

[Dispatch]

I know it's a reach, but is there a possibility that Rey is both a Kenobi and a Skywalker?

I don't think it would be the best example of story-telling, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Luke could have had a child with a descendant of Obi-wan. Sometimes, the apprentice falls in love with the child of the master.

 

[TyrantII]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

I don't know, killing your father is pretty evil. The dark side was always about channeling those dark emotions, which intrinsically are harder to control. He felt powerful, but reckless and unfocused to me; which is sort of the point of his introduction.

He's a much more interesting character, because he still has/had one foot left on the other side, and doubts, even as he moves towards becoming Vader.

 

[FeD.nL]

i have gotten really lukewarm on it. it really tempered my star wars hype now. prolly a 6.5/7 out of 10

but i would not call ben ren a weakness in the film. every scene he had (except for some boring shit with Space Gollum) was really entertaining. he was the most intriguing new character. poe has mad potential though, most excited for new scenes with isaac. and rey and finn have a lot of room for improvement but they didn't botch anything.

just wish the script was better.

Agreed Kylo was the best part for me as well.

I really think the film should have lasted 20 maybe 30 minutes longer. The rushing in the second half of the film really does it no favours which kinda is a shame since the first part is really good.

 

[Malmorian]

Thought I'd just put this here

 

[Megalosaro]

I think Finn should have fought phasma on takodana. Would have given hercsomething cool to do in staff of a random stormtrooper

 

[Chuck]

What's up with Luke's green saber? Did he lose it on the second Death Star?

 

[Tesseract]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

ben got shot in the bubble guts

that's pretty painful

 

[Grover Cleveland]

What's up with Luke's green saber? Did he lose it on the second Death Star?

He still has it.



Probably.

He threw it away (like a dumbass) before Wrinkles attacked him, but it's a safe assumption that he picked it up before leaving the throne room.

 

[FeD.nL]

they made ben look like a wuss to be honest. its like the opposite of your typical bad guys in which he is powerful and the hero grows with power. He got sabered by fin for crying out loud... and the "new" jedi pretty much handled him. that made him seem poor compared to vader.

Well yes, after he murdered his father.

Before that he's stopping bolts mid-air, deflecting shots from close range he's basically untouchable up until the moment he kills his father.

 

[MMarston]

He still has it.



Probably.

He threw it away (like a dumbass) before Wrinkles attacked him, but it's a safe assumption that he picked it up before leaving the throne room.

He still has it in the TFA prequel comic Shattered Empire.

 

[Obliterator]

Yeah as much as I like Kylo he seems incredibly weak in comparison to Episode 3 Anakin. I guess thats to be expected though given Anakin was trained by a Master in Obi-Wan, was extremely force sensitive, and also is Darth freaking Vader.

Its just something I noticed after watching Episode 3. Kylo isnt even close, Anakin could have killed him in seconds

 

[MMarston]

The thing about Kylo Ren is that he pretty much reveals a particular divide among SW fans on what they expect from a villain and it clearly shows in this thread.

One half wants a villain with more emotional depth and development (especially after the botched attempt at Anakin), while the other half wants a kick ass, chew bubblegum, take names villain who should just be badass plain and simple.

 

[injurai]

The thing about Kylo Ren is that he pretty much reveals a particular divide among SW fans on what they expect from a villain and it clearly shows in this thread.

One half wants a villain with more emotional depth and development (especially after the botched attempt at Anakin), while the other half wants a kick ass, chew bubblegum, take names villain who should just be badass plain and simple.

I think people want a villain like the sith, truly deplorable and abhorrent in their thinking. The idea that they have fallen to the dark side. They don't necessarily want another Vader.

 

[Obliterator]

The thing about Kylo Ren is that he pretty much reveals a particular divide among SW fans on what they expect from a villain and it clearly shows in this thread.

One half wants a villain with more emotional depth and development (especially after the botched attempt at Anakin), while the other half wants a kick ass, chew bubblegum, take names villain who should just be badass plain and simple.

Anakin is only really botched in Episode 2, which he is horribly. In Episode 3 its pretty spot on honestly

 

[Poyunch]

The thing about Kylo Ren is that he pretty much reveals a particular divide among SW fans on what they expect from a villain and it clearly shows in this thread.

One half wants a villain with more emotional depth and development (especially after the botched attempt at Anakin), while the other half wants a kick ass, chew bubblegum, take names villain who should just be badass plain and simple.

Hopefully as the story progresses Kylo can be both.

 

[Aylinato]

I just saw the film for the first time that day, obviously I'd been steering clear of spoilers and arguments. The 'parachuting' was innocent. I was just trying to be helpful to anyone that saw the flaws I did to say it's ok to accept or not accept TFA.

Whole lot of writing to say a whole lot of nothing about TFA

.

It's not fan fiction, it's canon by the people who own the rights. Rey is exactly like Luke was in the OT I don't care how you try to write it off. She's an amazing character and my favorite in the new franchise. I'll accept when people come up with logically sound arguments, but you just seem to want to discredit anything that isn't the OT.


We get it, you like the OT, but that doesn't make TFA all of a sudden not part of the actual universe nor does it make it a bad movie!