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[MMarston]

I think people want a villain like the sith, truly deplorable and abhorrent in their thinking. The idea that they have fallen to the dark side. They don't necessarily want another Vader.

I was about to say "didn't we already get that with Sheev", but I realize that we don't really know much else about him apart from the cackling asshole he is.

Anakin is only really botched in Episode 2, which he is horribly. In Episode 3 its pretty spot on honestly

Eh, it was close but no cigar. It still felt pretty rushed, particularly the really sudden "THE JEDI ARE EVIL" which I understand is more fleshed out in TCW.

Hopefully as the story progresses Kylo can be both.

That's pretty much the dream right here.

 

[GhaleonEB]

You make it sound so simple. The whole point of the academy is to teach yourself to free yourself. Freeing yourself is the hard part. Seeing as how both the Darth and the Emperor defeated Luke he very much did need an academy.

I don't make it sound so simple. The OT did. TFA is simply a continuation of how Luke learned in ANH. You have to flat out ignore Luke in ANH to get to this conclusion (which you did by ignoring my initial reply, BTW.)

She still has abandonment issues in full effect in the Cantina, then she's captured. Then she starts becoming a Jedi genius. There's no learning to overcome a lifetime's abandonment issues presented. People see psychologists for years because of abandonment issues. This would be as bad as Anakins turn to the darkside in RotS.

And like I said, if it's the force suddenly woke up then it's deus ex machina and feminism is back down to zero because she's just a puppet and all of her character, strong will and tenacity counts for nothing.

You simply didn't observe her arc, but it's very much there. Her reasons to not return to Jakku accumulate over the course of the film, her reasons for returning, diminish. She all but jumps at Han's offer for a job....and then hesitantly, reflexively falls back on heading back to Jakku. Maz tells Rey they both know who she's waiting for are not coming back. Rey doesn't deny it, the truth is all over hear face and in her tears. What she flees from is the shock of the visions the saber gave her and the upending of what she thought would be her role in the world. Which is a pretty reasonable reaction.

 

[Queen of Hunting]

i actually found the ending really cunty and was worse than being teased by the latestet godzillia fight, really fucked me off that luke didnt even say anything,

they should have ended the film when r2d2 came back and completed the map, and the second film should open with them going to meet luke etc.

 

[ultracal31]

i actually found the ending really cunty and was worse than being teased by the latestet godzillia fight, really fucked me off that luke didnt even say anything,

they should have ended the film when r2d2 came back and completed the map, and the second film should open with them going to meet luke etc.

I'm 99% sure if you didn't show Luke in this movie at all then people would have been pretty pissed off

 

[sphagnum]

I love that there are some people on TheForce.Net trying to find a (tongue in cheek of course) way to smush The Force Awakens into Legends continuity, giving us bizarre concepts like this:

Speaking of the Glove of Darth Vader, if the destruction of the second Death Star opened up tears in hyperspace - depositing Vader's mitt on Dac/Mon Calamari/Mon Cala, couldn't the destruction of Sernpidal by Yogand's Core have done the same - sending Chewy to, say, Hoth, where he survived in isolation by hunting wampa for the duration of the Yuuzhan Vong War?

Or that Han in TFA is either a droid, a clone, or saved by time travelling Jacen Solo.

 

[TyrantII]

They had to leave on something a bit happier. I missed it, but some said they saw a grave on the ocean world as Rey was climbing. Could it have been a memorial to Han? Luke most assuredly felt the disturbance losing such a friend would cause.

Anyone know if there's a plan to release an extending / complete OST? The albukm out now seems to be missing some music and cues.

 

[KaoticBlaze]

i actually found the ending really cunty and was worse than being teased by the latestet godzillia fight, really fucked me off that luke didnt even say anything,

they should have ended the film when r2d2 came back and completed the map, and the second film should open with them going to meet luke etc.

I think that would have been awesome. That entire scene at the end with Rey flying the Falcon to find him and going up the steps, and Luke at the end with his facial expression was just awkward and felt out of place. Could have been better as the beginning of the next one. I LOL'ed when the credits rolled and Mark Hamill's name was the second one from the entire cast even though he didn't do anything.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

i actually found the ending really cunty and was worse than being teased by the latestet godzillia fight, really fucked me off that luke didnt even say anything,

they should have ended the film when r2d2 came back and completed the map, and the second film should open with them going to meet luke etc.

I would have been a bit irritated if Luke hadn't turned up at all, especially seeing one of the main objectives of the film is to find him. Seeing him at the end was a great note to end on in my opinion. He's going to have a large role in VIII, I'm sure he'll get plenty of dialogue then.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

You forgot force choke in 4.
And 6 had force mind read.
3 had... 3 had...

Force Remove Will To Live.

 

[Imperfected]

You forgot force choke in 4.
And 6 had force mind read.
3 had... 3 had...

3 had Force "wait I can just cut this stupid jackass when he's trying to flip over me like a moron".

All future Jedi would learn this power, and thus duels in the future would rarely feature people flipping around like tools.

 

[KaoticBlaze]

I would have been a bit irritated if Luke hadn't turned up at all, especially seeing one of the main objectives of the film is to find him. Seeing him at the end was a great note to end on in my opinion. He's going to have a large role in VIII, I'm sure he'll get plenty of dialogue then.

But his reveal at the end could've been handled better. I think we all expected to see him at some point just because hes freaking Luke Skywalker and all, but he was absent from all the marketing and trailers for a reason.

 

[soxxx]

So Snoke is Darth Plagueis right?

Yes. A new sith character that managed to go undetected through the whole saga would not make sense at all. He obviously is very old and scarred. The assumption is, he either found a way to avoid death or, has found a way to come back from the death.

My theory is, he survived death, had the ability to lay low because Palpatine had damaged him and had become more powerful. Plagueis also realized the flaw in the Sith Master-Apprentice concept, instead creates the Knights of Ren, similar to the Jedi Knights, thus he can have more than one individual below him.

Some random guy just emerging after 100s of years of being alive makes no sense, the Plagueis theory does make sense, and so far all of the new characters have force ability have some sort of connection to others (Rey, Kylo).

I believe we will see the scene in which Palpatine attacked Plagueis in some form.

 

[Oidisco]

Force Remove Will To Live.

Force Heartbreak

 

[WadiumArcadium]

But his reveal at the end could've been handled better. I think we all expected to see him at some point just because hes freaking Luke Skywalker and all, but he was absent from all the marketing and trailers for a reason.

I wasn't in love with the helicopter shot but other than that I thought it was a good end to the film.

 

[soxxx]

Well Vader had the advantage of about 30 years of Jedi/Sith training. I expect the next couple of films will contrast Rey and Ren learning each side of the force leading up to a final confrontation with them both at full power in the third movie.

I think we are heading toward this, but I also believe they turn Kylo back and send both of them to take on Snoke in a 2 vs 1.

 

[TyrantII]

But his reveal at the end could've been handled better. I think we all expected to see him at some point just because hes freaking Luke Skywalker and all, but he was absent from all the marketing and trailers for a reason.

I thought it was perfect. Only disappointment was the motif playing and credits rolling, wanting more. But that's not a bad kind of wanting.

 

[Astral Dog]

I thought this movie was good. But that's it. This is the movie that made +$1billion, has broken all sorts of records, and has all this hype? That's it? is all I could think.

The movie's biggest strengths were the three main characters. I loved Rey, Finn, and Oscar Isaac's character so much. Especially Rey. Loved how bad ass, smart, funny, etc... she was.

The villain was a joke to me. When he took off his mask I thought he's supposed to be the big villain in this movie?. He looks like a kid. When the villain killed Han Solo I just rolled my eyes - could not bring myself to care. It was so predictable. Literally the only thought that came through my head was "Hmmph, so this must been have been the huge spoiler everyone was posting on Youtube comments, Facebook comments, etc..." and nothing more.

The story was boring to me - just a series of tedious action set pieces. Once the villain captured Rey I was hoping that the movie would then end there on a cliffhanger but it just dragged on and on for what felt like 30 more minutes.

I still think it was a good movie, but my expectations of the movie were much higher. I'm glad I watched it because I love Rey, Finn, and Oscar Isaac's character (and Oscar Isaac's droid too). And there were some shots I loved: a) Rey and Finn running on planet Jakku towards a ship that blows up, then Rey saying "The garbage will do", and b) Finn's light sabre fight with the villain at the end in the snow. But the villain was non-intimidating, the story was boring, the action was overall was boring, etc...

You were swallowed by the Hype, thats all, just enjoy it as a well made, fun Sci-Fi film. with charming characters, the villain is an interesting subversion of the famous Darth Vader stereotype, with his mask and imposing presence, but a weak ,looking individual behind it, clearly not prepared to take the "villain" role still.

 

[Christine]

I thought it was perfect. Only disappointment was the motif playing and credits rolling, wanting more. But that's not a bad kind of wanting.

I took my mother to go see it and that was exactly her response. The second the movie was over, she says "Perfect!" I ask her what she's talking about and she says "The ending was perfect, the exact right place to leave the story."

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Yes. A new sith character that managed to go undetected through the whole saga would not make sense at all. He obviously is very old and scarred. The assumption is, he either found a way to avoid death or, has found a way to come back from the death.

My theory is, he survived death, had the ability to lay low because Palpatine had damaged him and had become more powerful. Plagueis also realized the flaw in the Sith Master-Apprentice concept, instead creates the Knights of Ren, similar to the Jedi Knights, thus he can have more than one individual below him.

Some random guy just emerging after 100s of years of being alive makes no sense, the Plagueis theory does make sense, and so far all of the new characters have force ability have some sort of connection to others (Rey, Kylo).

I believe we will see the scene in which Palpatine attacked Plagueis in some form.

palpatine literally worked right next to the jedi counsel for the entire prequel trilogy and nobody figured out he was one until he wanted them to

 

[Oidisco]

I was so worried that they were going to end it before she found Luke

 

[Grover Cleveland]

Woops wrong thread.

But yeah Kylo's never going good ever again

 

[Astral Dog]

We learn that Supreme Leader Snoke is one of Palpatines failed Clones who defected from the Empire and was supposed to be killed, then got enough strength to come back and rebuild the Empire in his image,

 

[MrChocolate]

So I just watched it, here are my thoughts.

- Loved Poe and liked Rey (more than I thought I would).
- Finn was a really meh character, didn't bring anything new to the table. Perhaps I'd say, the script didn't help him. He went from "a total brainwashed stormtrooper to a full rebel" in 10 minutes.
- Kylo Ren was boring, and looked like if someone took a tall kid from a comic con and dressed him in a black robe. Yeah yeah, in before he was a human being displaying his insecurities, no, he was awful at the role.
- The multiple planet destruction was amazing, one of the best eye candy in the last time.
- Han's death was horseshit. He was the best of the movie along with Chewie (and Luke, the brief moment he appeared)

 

[inm8num2]

Haven't watched this yet, but some might be interested:

The Force Awakens and Star Wars Formula - Analyzed Movie Review

 

[Pizza]

So I just watched it, here are my thoughts.

- Loved Poe and liked Rey (more than I thought I would).
- Finn was a really meh character, didn't bring anything new to the table. Perhaps I'd say, the script didn't help him. He went from "a total brainwashed stormtrooper to a full rebel" in 10 minutes.
- Kylo Ren was boring, and looked like if someone took a tall kid from a comic con and dressed him in a black robe. Yeah yeah, in before he was a human being displaying his insecurities, no, he was awful at the role.
- The multiple planet destruction was amazing, one of the best eye candy in the last time.
- Han's death was horseshit. He was the best of the movie along with Chewie (and Luke, the brief moment he appeared)

I pretty much agree with you on all of these except Ren. I wish he would've kept his helmet on up until he killed his dad, I liked him in the whole suit way more. He worked much better that way.

Really hated Finn, especially on the second watch-through. He should have been way more socially inept or had some schtick, instead we get 21st century 20-something injected into a Star Wars movie. I felt like you could have cut him out of the plot altogether and the movie would have fared absolutely fine.

Edit: also Finn was constantly explaining, questioning, confirming, or pointing out things that were happening onscreen. His lines could have been given to the robot sphere and it would have actually probably have been better.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

- Kylo Ren was boring, and looked like if someone took a tall kid from a comic con and dressed him in a black robe. Yeah yeah, in before he was a human being displaying his insecurities, no, he was awful at the role.

Why was he awful? I thought Adam Driver's performance was one of the best parts of the film.

 

[Pandy]

I was so worried that they were going to end it before she found Luke

Her blasting of into space in search of him would have been a far better ending than the one we got.

There was no real 'pay-off' in finding Luke, nothing that suggested the struggle to find him was a worthwhile one, it was just another check-box that had to be filled for JJ to reach his full 'You are watching a Star Wars film' quota.

 

[Astral Dog]

Kylo was one of the best parts of the movie, people saying he is ugly are wrong, its only the nose.

 

[Zabka]

- Finn was a really meh character, didn't bring anything new to the table. Perhaps I'd say, the script didn't help him. He went from "a total brainwashed stormtrooper to a full rebel" in 10 minutes.

I don't know how you could take this away from the movie. Even at the end he lies to the Resistance because he's only concerned with saving Rey.

 

[KaoticBlaze]

Why was he awful? I thought Adam Driver's performance was one of the best parts of the film.

I agree, Ren has become one of my favorite villains, and Adam Driver did an amazing job of showing us Ren's anger, frustration, his feeling of being conflicted to the point where you actually start to feel bad for the character. It was just perfect in my opinion. I do wish his unmasking happened during the bridge scene though.

 

[FeD.nL]

I pretty much agree with you on all of these except Ren. I wish he would've kept his helmet on up until he killed his dad, I liked him in the whole suit way more. He worked much better that way.

I do wish his unmasking happened during the bridge scene though.

No they really shouldn't have done that. Then we would have 400 pages in the spoiler threads with all the trolls laughing at the fact Driver doesn't look like Ford and how that moment became a joke.

 

[Imperfected]

Her blasting of into space in search of him would have been a far better ending than the one we got.

There was no real 'pay-off' in finding Luke, nothing that suggested the struggle to find him was a worthwhile one, it was just another check-box that had to be filled for JJ to reach his full 'You are watching a Star Wars film' quota.

I generally agree, with two caveats:

1. Having Rey blast off in search of Luke as the ending implies that something interesting is going to happen on the way, so it would be disappointing if the next movie just opened with her finding him. There's the suggestion when you end a movie that way that it's the start of a new "adventure" rather than just a tween to the next plot point.

2. As much as it is fanservice, I do think a lot of people needed to see Luke. They needed that reassurance that Star Wars is "back". Most people here probably are not in that category; it's almost entirely people who watched the OT in theaters who legitimately need that shot, but I do think they exist.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

No they really shouldn't have done that. Then we would have 400 pages in the spoiler threads with all the trolls laughing at the fact Driver doesn't look like Ford and how that moment became a joke.

It is funny how most of the people criticising Kylo or Driver mention his looks.

I agree with the unmasking too. The Kylo Rey scene wouldn't have had the same impact for me without him being unmasked.

 

[dralla]

As someone who doesn't like Star Wars I saw this over the weekend and ended up enjoying it. I knew going in most of the big reveals so nothing was particular shocking to me. Me and my friend were a little confused about Finn and Rey's relationship, we couldn't decide if it was going to end up romantic or not. Finn in general is really quick to embrace people. Like when he was reunited with Poe it was the big dramatic moment for him, but they only met one time before that. Chill, bro. My friend made a good point about Finn not choosing his own name. Which I thought was interesting. You have this black character trying to break free and do his own thing and this random white dude names him and he's cool with it. Finn and Rey were both great. Poe was ehhh. Harrison Ford...my god I was glad when he was killed off. He is not a good actor anymore and was probably the weakest part of the film. I think Kylo is the best villain in the series, as he's an actual character and has some sort internal conflict that keeps the viewers wondering about his intentions and actions. The movie not taking itself too seriously was also a big reason we both liked it. As a non-SW fan it's my favorite movie in the series.

 

[-griffy-]

Haven't watched this yet, but some might be interested:

The Force Awakens and Star Wars Formula - Analyzed Movie Review

I'm 12 minutes in, he's doing a pretty job of talking about the "same as the original" complaint so far.

 

[User 73706]

I pretty much agree with you on all of these except Ren. I wish he would've kept his helmet on up until he killed his dad, I liked him in the whole suit way more. He worked much better that way.

Really hated Finn, especially on the second watch-through. He should have been way more socially inept or had some schtick, instead we get 21st century 20-something injected into a Star Wars movie. I felt like you could have cut him out of the plot altogether and the movie would have fared absolutely fine.

Edit: also Finn was constantly explaining, questioning, confirming, or pointing out things that were happening onscreen. His lines could have been given to the robot sphere and it would have actually probably have been better.

Are you from China, by any chance?

 

[Oidisco]

I thought Finn was fantastic, really liked his arc throughout the film and how he had a huge impact on the story. Ofcourse a big part of that is John Boyega who is fucking awesome!

Thinking about it, it must've been tough to perform some of those scenes since he was using an American accent.

 

[crimzonflame]

Haven't watched this yet, but some might be interested:

The Force Awakens and Star Wars Formula - Analyzed Movie Review

Feels like a Plinkett Lite review.

 

[spekkeh]

Finally, finally was able to get a babysitter and was able to see it today. Was quietly fist pumping all through the movie, not wanting it to end. Awesome. I didn't even think the prequels were that bad, just that Lucas somehow didn't seem to get what made star wars star wars. But this, this was on par with the OT to me.

Yes I was annoyed that JJ did a JJ where he rehashed major plot points and scenes, but it wasn't as egregious as Star trek ID. Seems like this was just a bridge, where lineage is now a major star wars theme, and as long as it stays that way and they now branch into new stories I'm okay with that.

Though I was waiting for Luke to just say Rey, I am your father.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

He still has it.



Probably.

He threw it away (like a dumbass) before Wrinkles attacked him, but it's a safe assumption that he picked it up before leaving the throne room.

He threw it towards the stairs seen earlier in the fight, not down the chasm. He has it when he is back to Endor in the ending scene:

 

[Oidisco]

You know I haven't seen many people talk about Maz. Personally I quite liked her (though that's mostly due to Lupita's performance), but besides a few people not liking the fact that she's a CG character I haven't seen her mentioned much.

So yea ignoring the CG, do ye think she was a good character or not?

 

[excelsiorlef]

You know I haven't seen many people talk about Maz. Personally I quite liked her (though that's mostly due to Lupita's performance), but besides a few people not liking the fact that she's a CG character I haven't seen her mentioned much.

So yea ignoring the CG, do ye think she was a good character or not?

Maz was fantastic. And her CG was fine.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

You know I haven't seen many people talk about Maz. Personally I quite liked her (though that's mostly due to Lupita's performance), but besides a few people not liking the fact that she's a CG character I haven't seen her mentioned much.

So yea ignoring the CG, do ye think she was a good character or not?

Maz was shit. She was a walking plot device.

 

[Oidisco]

Maz was fantastic. And her CG was fine.

Yea I had no issue with the CG, but right after the movie came out it was pretty much the only I heard when people talked about her.

 

[Prof. Bathtub]

You know I haven't seen many people talk about Maz. Personally I quite liked her (though that's mostly due to Lupita's performance), but besides a few people not liking the fact that she's a CG character I haven't seen her mentioned much.

So yea ignoring the CG, do ye think she was a good character or not?

Come to think of it, Maz is Orange Guinan. That said, I like a small character staring down folks much bigger than her. Her age and connections make a versatile supporting figure that writers can fit into different stories regardless of their trilogy era.

Also, impeccable taste in space-reggae.

 

[The Librarian]

Maz was fantastic. And her CG was fine.

Maz was shit. She was a walking plot device.

oh

 

[Angel_DvA]

Why was he awful? I thought Adam Driver's performance was one of the best parts of the film.

It definitely was.

 

[Lifejumper]

Maybe there is connection between the first jedi temple and snoke?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Haven't watched this yet, but some might be interested:

The Force Awakens and Star Wars Formula - Analyzed Movie Review

Good analysis. It's mostly about dissecting the question of familiarity that TFA has with the prior films, in structure and visual style. He makes some important points about how TFA builds on a familiar structure to tell stories about characters that are themselves unique to the series, and have unique arcs; similar to JJ's comments in the podcast a few days ago about using the same "bones" as the OT to tell a new story. I wish he'd spent a bit longer talking about the film making, going deep on just two scenes, as they were both interesting bits fo analysis. His extended quotes from news papers about Empire when it came was a great observation, but the quote reading was a touch long. But again, a point well made.

As an aside, I like that Stuckman talks at a normal, conversational pace in his videos. Too many youtubers are hyper or use jump cut editing to remove breaths between sentences.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Maybe there is connection between the first jedi temple and snoke?

Maybe he was the reason there had to be a second jedi temple.