Support NeoGAF

[excelsiorlef]

I honestly would have been fine if no grand politics were involved. We've gone from a convoluted Republic representing democracy that failed. To an oppressive Galactic Dictatorship that failed. To a new oppressive dictatorship? How about the galaxy just fell into warring fragments as a result of two massive failures? You don't even mention it... Actually, I'll just go watch Mad Max for a movie whose world makes more sense.

Uhh no The First Order didn't take over.

This is actually a brand new scenario there is a total power vacuum right now. It's political chaos.

Of course I'm not suggesting they use that line from ANH.

The purpose that line accomplished in ANH? They needed some story element to do that same thing.

They needed to address that something happened, it was important, it was bad, and then move on. Good movies do this.

Finn literally does just that right after it happened and then joins the fight for good.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Asking "who would deliver that line" is being fatalistic about the structure of the film as it appears right now.

No, it isn't.

Also, the "as it appears right now" is why that question has to be asked. Your answer isn't "as it appears right now," it's "as it was back in development." or "as it was in the dailies."

You can say that they should have done it better (I've been saying that) while still acknowledging that the element we would have liked done better is still actually there. Because it is. It's just not as well-executed as it could have been/should have been. But it is there.

You don't have to suggest a person is tripping over the line between fiction/reality to do that.

 

[Ishida]

The prequels tried to have some visual symbolism too but obviously it wasn't as well done as in TFA:

"This was the last time they spoke as friends. Anakin is standing in the dark, Obi-wan is standing in the light"

Damn, I love that scene. So very well done. :'(

 

[FeD.nL]

I really hope they go all out with the empire veterans in the next films. The First Order troops in this film all seemed like people who were born just before or right after the collapse of the Empire.

What I found interesting is that the leaders of the stormtrooper squads use a 'TK' designation, which can be heard after the troopers capture Han, Finn and Chewie. So perhaps those are veterans from the galactic war.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I really hope they go all out with the empire veterans in the next films

Benicio?

 

[NumberThree]

Well, the grammatically correct interpretation is actually that Luke wasn't who she was waiting for on Jakku. He'd been missing for some length of time I don't remember (did the movie make this clear?), and that's the context for him coming "back." The implication that Rey knew him at some point isn't necessarily there.

But yeah, I would be surprised if they didn't have some kind of connection. His daughter, a surviving student, something.

I must admit that your take on the wording sounds more accurate than mine.

And it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if Luke was responsible for leaving her on Jakku, but I particularly don't like the idea if they explain some of the rough edges away by saying he wiped her memory or something.

Nerokis made a good point, it could just be about Luke coming back from his hiding, not necessarily coming back to Rey. So
Rey is waiting for her parents -> they're not coming back -> Luke can come back and save the world
is a perfectly valid interpretation of what Maz was saying.

But to be fair, the writers probably didn't think about that line as much as we do..

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

So you don't understand how Luke coming back could lead to him establishing the Jedi Order? And you don't see that as a big deal? Seriously?


If you got it but didn't like it each to their own. I was explaining why I liked it and why it worked for me but my majot point of contention is the number of people saying that things that were painstakingly stated vis exposition weren't clear enough.

I guess I just don't get how that would be dangerous for The First Order. Yeah, in the long term it would be problem but he would to find and train force sensitive people.

Your other points are nothing we can really discussion anymore. Would be no point.

 

[Spinluck]

Rey grabbing the lightsaber is the best moment in Star Wars.

And someone dared to call this moment cheesy and pandering the other day. It's going to be the iconic moment of TFA.

Chills man, John Williams really elevated that scene. In a weird way, some have waited over 30 years for that moment. The blend of uncertainty and bravery in Rey's face and posture was perfect. The dark, snowy, somewhat isolated setting was a perfect backdrop for the scene too. This might be my favorite 3rd act in a Star Wars film, second to only ESB.

I need more time to let it sink in. I've seen the film twice, I'm not sure how I'll feel a year from now. But as of now, I love it. The fight itself could've been better. For me personally, the characters more than make up for it. Seeing Finn go from shitting his pants at the sight or thought of Kylo, to trying to take him head on with all sorts of stakes on the line (but more importantly protecting Rey) was awesome. Then seeing her take on her destiny after running away from it literally and subconsciously was just perfect. It was so Star Wars.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I was fairly engaged with the movie's promotion from beginning to end. and have now watched it twice. I still don't understand the connection between the New Republic, the Resistance, and the First Order. Like, is the First Order a rival organization maintaining control over a particular slice of the galaxy? Have the First Order and the New Republic been coexisting for the past ~30 years? What exactly is the Resistance, and why does it seem to be considered an entirely different organization from the New Republic?

It's a confusing dynamic, and I'm skeptical I'll ever get an explanation that makes it suddenly seem well developed.

After Jedi The Empire was defeated and Mon Mothma took over and was elecyed first leader if the Republic. After som skirmishes whatvwas left of the Empire was fought back into the outer rim of space. A peace deal was reachedand after years of war and exhausted from all the bloodshed Mothma mostly demilitarized The Republic. This did not sit well with Leia as she feared complacency would lead to vulnerability and that appeasing the remnants of the Empire was a bad idea. So she kept tabs on them and saw the establishment of The First Order. She asked for military support and The Senate believing that the First Order could never realky gain enough power to pose a serious threat and who were weary of breaking a peace deal and again just generally hoping to avoid a war said no. Furthermore probaby as a PR move they basically pushed Leia out if the government. So she formed a private military group called the Resistance to monitor and fight The First Order. Now she had allies in the Senate so many of them secretly funded her hoping they'd take out The First Order quietly so that The Senate could keep up the facade that all was peaceful and safe. Ooops...

Now as for Starkillee it was built in a system of space way deep in the outer rim and kept hella secret. That's why nobody found it.

 

[BocoDragon]

No, it isn't.

Also, the "as it appears right now" is why that question has to be asked. Your answer isn't "as it appears right now," it's "as it was back in development." or "as it was in the dailies."

You can say that they should have done it better (I've been saying that) while still acknowledging that the element we would have liked done better is still actually there. Because it is. It's just not as well-executed as it could have been/should have been. But it is there.

You don't have to suggest a person is tripping over the line between fiction/reality to do that.

All of a sudden we're considering the filmmakers being boxed in at a late stage in the development process when we discuss ways in which the film could or could not have been done differently? That'd be fine if we were having that discussion, but I don't think the poster I was addressing was really thinking in that way.

Anyway I'll take your point that the element was there, and maybe it didn't play in the final film as well as could be.

 

[Nerokis]

Because now it is like in the OT, it's the Resistance V the First Order without the Resistance having any backup.

But it's really not. It was completely understandable how the Rebel Alliance came to be in the OT. You had the all-powerful Galactic Empire, and forces on the inside joined with forces on the outside to push back against it.

In TFA, the New Republic and the First Order seemingly developed along parallel lines; the former from the Rebel Alliance, and the latter from remnants of the Galactic Empire. Where does the Resistance come in? Did it come about specifically from groups within the First Order's sphere of influence? Why isn't the New Republic doing anything, and if it has political and diplomatic reasons to coexist with the First Order, does it have any association with the Resistance at all? Is the Resistance simultaneously rebelling against the New Republic's policies while fighting against the First Order's forces?

Seriously, I kind of appreciate that the impulse for exposition was restrained in TFA, but i feel this could have been developed a little more. Maybe I just need to watch it a third time.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You can say that they should have done it better (I've been saying that) while still acknowledging that the element we would have liked done better is still actually there. Because it is. It's just not as well-executed as it could have been/should have been. But it is there.

You don't have to suggest a person is tripping over the line between fiction/reality to do that.

This is pretty much where am at. Do I think it was perfectly handled? No? Could it have been better? Of course, way better. But it was done well enough that I got why it was done and understood it. So in the end it could have been better but it wasn't so oh well because it still achieved what it neeed to achieve amd how they did it wasn't some horrible failure that ruined the movie.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

But it's really not. It was completely understandable how the Rebel Alliance came to be in the OT. You had the all-powerful Galactic Empire, and forces on the inside joined with forces on the outside to push back against it.

In TFA, the New Republic and the First Order seemingly developed along parallel lines; the former from the Rebel Alliance, and the latter from remnants of the Galactic Empire. Where does the Resistance come in? Did it come about specifically from groups within the First Order's sphere of influence? Why isn't the New Republic doing anything, and if it has political and diplomatic reasons to coexist with the First Order, does it have any association with the Resistance at all? Is the Resistance simultaneously rebelling against the New Republic's policies while fighting against the New Order's forces?

Seriously, I kind of appreciate that the impulse for exposition was restrained in TFA, but i feel this could have been developed a little more. Maybe I just need to watch it a third time.

Oh, they explain it, but in the canon novels/comics/etc, and not in the movie itself. Think of both as splinters/proxies for the conflict after the main governments of the republic and empire remnants signed a peace treaty.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Chills man, John Williams really elevated that scene. In a weird way, some have waited over 30 years for that moment. The blend of uncertainty and bravery in Rey's face and posture was perfect. The dark, snowy, somewhat isolated setting was a perfect backdrop for the scene too. This might be my favorite 3rd act in a Star Wars film, second to only ESB.

I need more time to let it sink in. I've seen the film twice, I'm not sure how I'll feel a year from now. But as of now, I love it. The fight itself could've been better. For me personally, the characters more than make up for it. Seeing Finn go from shitting his pants at the sight or thought of Kylo, to trying to take him head on with all sorts of stakes on the line (but more importantly protecting Rey) was awesome. Then seeing her take on her destiny after running away from it literally and subconsciously was just perfect. It was so Star Wars.

Yeah, it's my favorite moment in the series to date, bar none. Second viewing had me just weeping hysterically.

On that note, I really liked the scene of Rey saying goodbye to a comatose Finn. "Thank you, my friend," she says. She spent much of their first meeting telling Finn she didn't need his help. She last saw him standing trying to defend her, against impossible odds, at a time when she very much needed needed it. Was a really nice closure to the development of their friendship in the film.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I guess I just don't get how that would be dangerous for The First Order. Yeah, in the long term it would be problem but he would to find and train force sensitive people.

Because Luke took out the last Emperor and he was one Jedi. A Jedi army could wipe out the First Order easily.

This is a series that has always made it clear the Jedi can fuck you up.

It's why Palpatine's first act to establish the Empire was to wipe out the Jedi.


How can you watch a Star Wars movie and not get how significant a new Jedi Order would be.

All of a sudden we're considering the filmmakers being boxed in at a late stage in the development process when we discuss ways in which the film could or could not have been done differently? That'd be fine if we were having that discussion, but I don't think the poster I was addressing was really thinking in that way.

Anyway I'll take your point that the element was there, and maybe it didn't play in the final film as well as could be.

You said the whole sequence would have worked if one person said that ANH line. I asked you who would say it and you accused me of not knowing the difference between fiction and reality.

Btw you have yet to answer the question still.

 

[BocoDragon]

Because Luke took out the last Emperor and he was one Jedi. A Jedi army could wipe out the First Order easily.

This is a series that has always made it clear the Jedi can fuck you up.

It's why Palpatine's first act to establish the Empire was to wipe out the Jedi.


How can you watch a Star Wars movie and not get how significant a new Jedi Order would be.

You may have convinced me. That's a good point.

Maybe a pre-requisite for an evil empire (be it Palpatine's or TFO) is that there are no Jedi. If there are Jedi, any evil empire is doomed.

 

[FeenixRising]

Random as hell but this video of Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher talking about the prequel trilogy during ESB promotion is interesting. (He also refers to the not yet released Episode 6 by its original name, "Revenge of the Jedi")

Apparently the original plan for Revenge of the Sith was to feature a six year old Luke but that apparently got scrapped.

As for TFA, I'm planning on seeing it again. First time was in 3D and this time I want to see it in IMAX.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Because Luke took out the last Emperor and he was one Jedi. A Jedi army could wipe out the First Order easily.

This is a series that has always made it clear the Jedi can fuck you up.

It's why Palpatine's first act to establish the Empire was to wipe out the Jedi.


How can you watch a Star Wars movie and not get how significant a new Jedi Order would be.

Sure.
My issue is that it would take a long time. Long enough that you could find them and wipe them out before the pose any threat.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You may have convinced me. That's a good point.

Maybe a pre-requisite for an evil empire (be it Palpatine's or TFO) is that there are no Jedi. If there are Jedi, any evil empire is doomed.

And don't forget in the grand scheme of it Luke took out the Empire on relatively little training.

 

[BocoDragon]

You said the whole sequence would have worked if one person said that ANH line. I asked you who would say it and you accused me of not knowing the difference between fiction and reality.

Who used the words fiction and reality? Bobby Roberts did, and I choose to believe he was using a knowing bit of hyperbole rather than actually thinking I was accusing someone of thinking Star Wars was real.

What I said was:

You keep arguing as if these movies are actual events that happened, rather than film productions which can be critiqued and could have been shaped in many alternative directions.

And that's itself a bit of hyperbole that I used because you kept answering the need for clarification about the destruction of the Republic by throwing up your hands and saying "but all the characters are busy!", as if they couldn't have arranged this story in any way they pleased.

So what was the question?

 

[jackal27]

Yeah, it's my favorite moment in the series to date, bar none. Second viewing had me just weeping hysterically.

On that note, I really liked the scene of Rey saying goodbye to a comatose Finn. "Thank you, my friend," she says. She spent much of their first meeting telling Finn she didn't need his help. She last saw him standing trying to defend her, against impossible odds, at a time when she very much needed needed it. Was a really nice closure to the development of their friendship in the film.

Man, this is why Finn is my favorite character. He's such a good guy that even being brainwashed as a stormtrooper couldn't keep him from doing the right thing. I love how much he hates that about himself too. In the end he overcomes his fear to do what's right against impossible odds and it nearly costs him his life.

However, in doing so he also inspires Rey to become who she is meant to be and to step forward into her role as a Jedi.

It's almost the opposite of A New Hope, where the hero's fool hearty bravery inspires the worldly man (Han) to do the right thing. The worldly man's (Finn's) fool hearty bravery inspires the hero to do the right thing.

 

[FeD.nL]

Benicio?

That would be awesome.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Sure.
My issue is that it would take a long time. Long enough that you could find them and wipe them out before the pose any threat.

Luke was one Jedi and a relatively untrained one at that and he fucked shit up fast

The First Order can't even take over the Galaxy yet now and their opponents weren't Jedi and the FO sure as fuck don't have a Vader or even a Palpatine

If Luke found oh say I dunno among others a young highly force sensitivity girl who grew up on Jakku and trained her and others quickly, they'd be fucked.

And here's the thing the FO didn't know where Leia's base was until they followed her recon ahip. Both sides are good at hiding from each other, so it'd be easy to hide Luke away and train the Order whilst the Resistance keeps the FO at bay and then bam Jedi Order and bye bye FO

 

[excelsiorlef]

So what was the question?

What force sensitive character would ham fistedly deliver that ANH line (or something like it)

 

[JimiNutz]

Girlfriend and I were discussing the possibility that Rey is actually Ben's Sister rather than cousin last night.

Her theory is that Rey went to train with Luke from a very young age (around the time that Ben went). Ben slaughters the other Jedi eventually with the Knights of Ren (as seen in Rey's flashback) but Ben is unable to slaughter his own Sister (as he is still tempted by the Light Side).

To hide his failure and weakness in not being able to kill his Sister he leaves her on a remote shitty desert planet with a Junker. Why would Luke leave Rey with that shitty alien that cons her and barely keeps her fed (that's who's holding Rey's hand in her vision when she's left on the planet). Ren seems to literally be able to pull memories out of people's heads so maybe Ren literally pulled the memories out of young Rey's head and left her for on Jakku.

Luke returns to his temple finds all his pupils dead and Rey missing. He assumes she is either dead or with Ren/Snoke now. Leia and Han also assume that their daughter is dead by Rey's hand and have no idea she is on Jakku which is why neither really recognise her (but seem to feel a strong connection with her).

Would also explain why Luke looks so shocked at the end. His long lost neice and pupil is actually alive not dead as he originally thought?

Lots of people seem to assume that Rey and Ben are cousins and maybe that's what Luke will tell her? Then the twist is that they are actually Brother and Sister?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Because Luke took out the last Emperor and he was one Jedi. A Jedi army could wipe out the First Order easily.

This is a series that has always made it clear the Jedi can fuck you up.

It's why Palpatine's first act to establish the Empire was to wipe out the Jedi.

How can you watch a Star Wars movie and not get how significant a new Jedi Order would be.

Luke didn't take out Palpatine. Jedi did not always win (at least at that point of the Lore). There had been periods of Jedi > Sith and periods of Sith > Jedi. The very fact that Palpatine was able to manipulate the situation to essentially rid the entire Galaxy of Jedi showcases that Jedi are not unbeatable.

His desire to destroy them is due to the fact that Jedi are the natural enemy of Sith going well back into the past. Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, etc... Yes, a part of it is that a united Jedi Order is a dangerous opponent but primarily it's because ridding the Galaxy of Jedi is one of the key goals of Sith belief. The same way Jedi believe Balance is a Galaxy without Sith, Sith believe the opposite.

 

[BocoDragon]

What force sensitive character would ham fistedly deliver that ANH line (or something like it)

You understand that I don't want that line, or any force sensitive user line like it, right?

To restate:

Of course I'm not suggesting they use that line from ANH.

The purpose that line accomplished in ANH? They needed some story element to do that same thing.

They needed to address that something happened, it was important, it was bad, and then move on. Good movies do this.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You understand that I don't want that line, or any force sensitive user line like it, right?

So then my answer to you is that that is in the movie. Finn runs up to Han right after and says That was The Republic. They did it. The First Order did it.

Or something to that effect. It wasbasically the first line spoken after the attack and it stopped Finn dead in his tracks just as he was about to run away and he ran to Han to tell him.

There that's exactly what you wanted and it is already in the movie

 

[excelsiorlef]

Luke didn't take out Palpatine. Jedi did not always win (at least at that point of the Lore). There had been periods of Jedi > Sith and periods of Sith > Jedi. The very fact that Palpatine was able to manipulate the situation to essentially rid the entire Galaxy of Jedi showcases that Jedi are not unbeatable.

His desire to destroy them is due to the fact that Jedi are the natural enemy of Sith going well back into the past. Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, etc... Yes, a part of it is that a united Jedi Order is a dangerous opponent but primarily it's because ridding the Galaxy of Jedi is one of the key goals of Sith belief. The same way Jedi believe Balance is a Galaxy without Sith, Sith believe the opposite.

Sure that could be it to. Although I don't think Snoke is necessarily Sith.

Anyway I never said the Jedi were unbeatable merely that they can fuck you up.

 

[BocoDragon]

So then my answer to you is that that is in the movie. Finn runs up to Han right after and says That was The Republic. They did it. The First Order did it.

Or something to that effect.

It's there, but it doesn't play correctly as a confirmation of a major disaster/power shift.

The movie is what it is. But I suggest that if Lucasfilm had more time, they themselves would have wanted to improve it.

(I know from experience that most designers are perfectly aware their creations have flaws... but there is a deadline that comes down on them)

 

[Jest Chillin]

Sure that could be it to. Although I don't think Snoke is necessarily Sith.

Anyway I never said the Jedi were unbeatable merely that they can fuck you up.

Snoke may or may not be Sith. It's too early to tell really. We only know that the Knights of Ren aren't Sith (and I don't think we even have confirmation on whether the Knights of Ren are all or in part Darkside Force users outside of Kylo).

But yes, Snoke's intent would've been to elminate the Jedi before they had a chance to gain a strong foothold, sure. That's not all that different than what they did to The Republic in TFA though. Tried to take them out by surprise in one fell swoop. Conquerors want to Conquer and will eliminate anyone they feel might stand in their way whether they're a legitimate threat at the time or not.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Snoke may or may not be Sith. It's too early to tell really. We only know that the Knights of Ren aren't Sith (and I don't think we even have confirmation on whether the Knights of Ren are all or in part Darkside Force users outside of Kylo).

But yes, Snoke's intent would've been to elminate the Jedi before they had a chance to gain a strong foothold, sure. That's not all that different than what they did to The Republic in TFA though. Tried to take them out by surprise in one fell swoop. Conquerors want to Conquer and will eliminate anyone they feel might stand in their way whether they're a legitimate threat at the time or not.

Except they outright admit that everything they did in TFA was to stop Leia from finding Luke.

The poster I was replying to said thst thst was was silly questioned why they'd care so much or why they'd fear Luke and the Jedi Order

Not sure what you're arguing with me about here.

 

[Snake]

I was fairly engaged with the movie's promotion from beginning to end. and have now watched it twice. I still don't understand the connection between the New Republic, the Resistance, and the First Order. Like, is the First Order a rival organization maintaining control over a particular slice of the galaxy? Have the First Order and the New Republic been coexisting for the past ~30 years? What exactly is the Resistance, and why does it seem to be considered an entirely different organization from the New Republic?

It's a confusing dynamic, and I'm skeptical I'll ever get an explanation that makes it suddenly seem well developed.

The movie doesn't do a very good job of explaining it, but I don't think it's that hard to conceive of:

After the events of ROTJ, the overall regime that administered the state [The Empire] collapsed and was taken over by the Rebellion, re-forming as a new Republic. After which the [still heavily armed] loyalists of The Empire re-consolidated their power in a significant amount of territory to form a new state, The First Order. The Republic and the First Order were then locked in a sort of cold war, where both sides made ostensible military concessions to prevent another full scale war. Amidst this "peace," The Resistance popped up to challenge the First Order within its own territory. The Resistance, while officially independent of the Republic, is clearly composed of key members of its founding organization (the Rebel Alliance), which likely makes diplomatic relations between the Republic and the First Order all the more shaky. This is the political situation leading into The Force Awakens.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's there, but it doesn't play correctly as a confirmation of a major disaster/power shift.

The movie is what it is. But I suggest that if Lucasfilm had more time, they themselves would have wanted to improve it.

(I know from experience that most designers are perfectly aware their creations have flaws... but there is a deadline that comes down on them)

Did for me.

But now we are arguing taste.

Intially you implied it wasn't there. It was you just didn't like it. That's fine can't change your mind there

 

[Jest Chillin]

Except they outright admit that everything they did in TFA was to stop Leia from finding Luke.

The poster I was replying to said thst thst was was silly questioned why they'd care so much or why they'd fear Luke and the Jedi Order

Not sure what you're arguing with me about here.

I think you're extrapolating a bit too much from those scenes and missing the much more obvious reasoning. The goal of The First Order is to take over the Galaxy, just as the Empire previously had (or nearly had anyways). This means destroying The Republic AND finding/killing Luke.

Of course they would want to prevent Leia from finding Luke again because they don't want her to convince him to actively take up the fight against them but they did not build Starkiller Base specifically to stop Luke. It's the WMD of all WMD's. Its intent is to terrify planets and systems into submission or face extinction. But it's insanely insufficient at stopping one person whose whereabouts are unknown.

Snoke wants Luke dead because he's potential opposition being a Jedi. But the entirety of the actions of TFA aren't focused on him and certainly the destruction of the Hosnian system is not about Luke specifically.

Edit: What I'm pointing out is that the specifics of the motivation that you're citing aren't accurate. Your Palpatine example was inaccurate and your interpretation of the goals of The First Order in TFA are a reach.

 

[Emulated Hype]

The end of this movie was weird.

Despite having their base destroyed, the Order essentially succeeded in their primary goal. The Resistance/Rebels/Republic just had decades of work wiped away and it wasn't really touched on at all.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think you're extrapolating a bit too much from those scenes and missing the much more obvious reasoning. The goal of The First Order is to take over the Galaxy, just as the Empire previously had (or nearly had anyways). This means destroying The Republic AND finding/killing Luke.

Of course they would want to prevent Leia from finding Luke again because they don't want her to convince him to actively take up the fight against them but they did not build Starkiller Base specifically to stop Luke. It's the WMD of all WMD's. Its intent is to terrify planets and systems into submission or face extinction. But it's insanely insufficient at stopping one person whose whereabouts are unknown.

Snoke wants Luke dead because he's potential opposition being a Jedi. But the entirety of the actions of TFA aren't focused on him and certainly the destruction of the Hosnian system is not about Luke specifically.

Edit: What I'm pointing out is that the specifics of the motivation that you're citing aren't accurate. Your Palpatine example was inaccurate and your interpretation of the goals of The First Order in TFA are a reach.

:|

Did I say they built Skywalker base to stop Luke? No I said they fired it both times in TFA to try and stop Leia from getting to Luke

Everything Snoke did in TFA was about Luke and Luke specifically.

Why do I know this? Because Snoke and Hux said so...twice . Plus it is established from the opening scrawl on.

Going to quote myself from the other thread with some revisions

Literally after they escape with Jakku with BB-8 on The Falcon there is a scene in Snoke's chamber where he is pissed that the droid is going to get to The Resistance because they'll find Luke and Luke will come back and re-establish the Jedi order, up until that point they'd been operating quietly, now and Snoke literally says this:"Our strategy must change" that;s when Hux says the weapon is ready and they decide to blow up the Senate, that was their plan B, because now everyone knows they exist, they committed an act of war that exposed them for what they are in order to try and stop the Resistance form getting to Luke, they are that terrified of him. They even say that they are wiping out the Senate to take away Leia's allies and make it easier for The First Order to stop The Resistance from getting to Luke.

And then after Ren fails to acquire BB-8 because he thinks Rey is enough and she escapes they go to yet another chamber conversation where Hux reems out Ren for not getting BB-8 as well and tells SNoke that the droid is probably in the hands of the Resistance, And thus Snoke declares and again I quote "The Resistance must be destroyed before they get to Skywalker". And that's when they decide to charge up and target Leia's base which they found by following her recon back to her locatio.

That's two blatant expository sit and talk scenes that spell out exactly that the quest to find Luke is the centre of everything.

Why they tell Ren to not let his personal feelings interfere is that Snoke and The First Order would settle for destroying BB-8 and thus stopping Leia from finding Luke even if it meant never finding him themselves, something Ren doesn't want, he wants to find Luke.

The ends result is Snoke and The First Order are terrified that they will find Luke bring him home and he'll re-start the Jedi order. They were so terrified that they blew up the fucking Senate to send a message and thus exposing themselves and then put their entire weapon at risk by targeting Leia directly,

It was all to stop them from finding Luke. They literally say it twice, like not even implied but flat out said twice in plain english during giant exposition scenes, they attack the Republic so as to weaken the Resistance so that they can stop them before they reach Skywalker (literally paraphrasing Hux here) and then they try to launch on The Resistance base because if they don't wipe them out fully right away they will get to Skywalker. Everything they do is about stopping them from getting to Luke, because they don't want the new Jedi to rise.

Like I'm not making this shit up or reaching. It's in the movie. It's literally laid out to you in direct words: it's all about stopping Luke from coming back. Everything they do in TFA is with that in mind.

The end of this movie was weird.

Despite having their base destroyed, the Order essentially succeeded in their primary goal. The Resistance/Rebels/Republic just had decades of work wiped away and it wasn't really touched on at all.

The Resistance lives and they're going to get to Luke and the First Order lost their super weapon.

Again the movie couldn’t make it more clear that their primary goal was stoping the Resistance from finding Luke.

 

[oti]

Poe is gay right?

How would you get that idea? Did I miss something in the movie?

 

[MMarston]

How would you get that idea? Did I miss something in the movie?

inb4thetumblrposts

 

[Waldini]

... soo ... emmm ... does anyone have a link to the Force Awakens art book they could PM me?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Checking through the previous OT I missed the George Lucas interview with Charlie Rose, only watched the clip and not the whole thing yet but George seems sad and a little bitter.


Glad they didn't go with his idea idea of EPVIII-IX focusing on little kids or young teens.

 

[McBryBry]

I'm pumped to see Rey's battle with the dark side herself. I think it's going to be different from Anakin or Luke due to the sheer anger we see on her face sometimes.

 

[Einchy]

Poe is gay right?

Of course.

And so is Rey and Ren.

 

[TheKaeptain]

How would you get that idea? Did I miss something in the movie?

Come on dude. Look at this. Poe is thirsty for that Chocolate.

 

[MMarston]

I'm pumped to see Rey's battle with the dark side herself. I think it's going to be different from Anakin or Luke due to the sheer anger we see on her face sometimes.

Gotta wonder if she unintentionally force chokes somebody next time

 

[Imperfected]

I can accept Vader Blocks it with the force all you have to do is show me the evidence, the official novelization, DVD commentary, interviews whatever. until then at no point in the OT is it shown moving things with the force requires nothing less then near absolute focus and concentration.


Until then Blaster Proof Armor, force pull.

You do realize that for blaster-proof gloves to be practical, Vader has to be fast enough to consistently move his hands in the path of incoming blaster fire?

As far as Kylo Ren stopping a blaster bolt being some new "height" in Force powers, it's far more likely that it's a new height in Force showmanship that other Jedi/Sith haven't done simply because it's entirely impractical to do so.

This is self-evident. He had to continue to expend some focus to keep the shot frozen in the air. At any given point, he could have simply stepped out of the line of fire and allowed the shot to continue harmlessly by him, no longer needing to focus on it. This is what any Force user in combat would do (Kylo included; note that he isn't freezing blaster bolts all over the place during actual firefights), because they can't afford to be concentrating on one blaster shot when they could have dozens of them being fired at them in the span of a few seconds.

Freezing the bolt is something he does purely for intimidation value. His mind-reading and powers of observation (such as recognizing Finn's crisis of conscience and thus immediately identifying him as the traitor) are actually far more impressive, especially compared to the prequel Jedi and their complete inability to understand human nature and motives.

 

[oti]

Come on dude. Look at this. Poe is thirsty for that Chocolate.

lol, bring it!

 

[The Librarian]

Man, this is why Finn is my favorite character. He's such a good guy that even being brainwashed as a stormtrooper couldn't keep him from doing the right thing. I love how much he hates that about himself too. In the end he overcomes his fear to do what's right against impossible odds and it nearly costs him his life.

However, in doing so he also inspires Rey to become who she is meant to be and to step forward into her role as a Jedi.

It's almost the opposite of A New Hope, where the hero's fool hearty bravery inspires the worldly man (Han) to do the right thing. The worldly man's (Finn's) fool hearty bravery inspires the hero to do the right thing.

I'm not sure if "inspired" is the right word here. By not embracing her future when Maz says she should, Rey enables several consequences:

— She gets captured.
— She forced her friends to come rescue her.
— Finn gets hurt because Rey doesn't want the lightsaber to take down Ben, and instead fires a blaster at the fallen man.

I read it as more her realizing that running away was the wrong thing to do. Look at what happened as a result!

 

[Ding-Ding]

Girlfriend and I were discussing the possibility that Rey is actually Ben's Sister rather than cousin last night.

Her theory is that Rey went to train with Luke from a very young age (around the time that Ben went). Ben slaughters the other Jedi eventually with the Knights of Ren (as seen in Rey's flashback) but Ben is unable to slaughter his own Sister (as he is still tempted by the Light Side).

To hide his failure and weakness in not being able to kill his Sister he leaves her on a remote shitty desert planet with a Junker. Why would Luke leave Rey with that shitty alien that cons her and barely keeps her fed (that's who's holding Rey's hand in her vision when she's left on the planet). Ren seems to literally be able to pull memories out of people's heads so maybe Ren literally pulled the memories out of young Rey's head and left her for on Jakku.

Luke returns to his temple finds all his pupils dead and Rey missing. He assumes she is either dead or with Ren/Snoke now. Leia and Han also assume that their daughter is dead by Rey's hand and have no idea she is on Jakku which is why neither really recognise her (but seem to feel a strong connection with her).

Would also explain why Luke looks so shocked at the end. His long lost neice and pupil is actually alive not dead as he originally thought?

Lots of people seem to assume that Rey and Ben are cousins and maybe that's what Luke will tell her? Then the twist is that they are actually Brother and Sister?

Cant see it myself.

I think for a start that considering they lost Ben to the dark side, then Leia lost Han to Ben, you would have to assume that Leia wouldn't want to risk Rey. Most likely scenario would be to try to keep her safe, not send her to someone who likely failed Ben who is also being hunted by the Sith.

You would also have to consider that some reference to another child would have been made between Han and Leia while talking about Ben

 

[KingSnake]

A lot of pages to woke up to. And I'm still amazed how people can miss entire sequences when watching a movie. I mean if a Star Wars movie is suddenly too complex how will the humanity survive?

Also I dislike JJ Abrams super fast pacing style of direction, it gives no breathing room. I hope episode 8 has more quiet and intimate moments, like the asteroid parts in ESB for instance.

But there was a similar moment with the asteroid worm one. With different space monsters.

As someone that watched the original 1977 movie in the theater, this movie did not do justice to star wars. If jj can explain some things in the next film then perhaps this movie will be looked back on as decent. Until then, the first 3/4th was good but the last parts were really really bad.

I find this post very ironic, as most of the OT plot is actually explained in ESB and RotJ.

There needs to be a 3rd faction so that the Resistance and FO combine forces to defeat them!

That will be Kylo Ren in Episodes VIII and IX.