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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

E

excelsiorlef

Member
UnemployedVillain said:
Here's what would have made it better
  1. Remove the Starkiller stuff. It was dumb. Just make the Rebellion storm the recently found First Order base
  2. Move the ending Rey vs Ren fight to when she actually got captured. This time make it a standstill after TFO are given orders to retreat because Rebellion troops have been detected near their planet hideout. Finn still gets injured though and Han is still killed.
  3. Have Rey instead have a force vision/maybe R2 seeing the lightsaber reactivate him to see where Luke is and have her set off to find him from that point, and have the rest of the movie maybe be a quick series of scenes of her landing on planets. Maybe have one in depth where there's some danger or next step to the puzzle. Then we could actually keep the same ending scene, but it'd be more significant.
Click to expand...

But it was a map pointing to his exact location, there's no reason to land on random planets. It wasn't a fucking treasure map or an Indiana Jones obstacle course, it was a google maps saying go here. Now they could have written it different but why? What logical reason would it be to have the meeting of the protag and antag be not the climax of the film and what reason would you have a 20 minute planet surfing montage as your climax?

Also how do they find this base? They only find Starkiller because the FO fired it.

I love these suggestions because they almost always end up making the movie worse not better.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
excelsiorlef said:
Meh that sounds kinda silly, why would the map to Luke be in the saber he lost 25+ years ago....
Click to expand...
I do think a literal map in the handle is silly.

Clearly Jedi lightsabers are rare. That's why Kylo's is imperfect. Maybe the crystal in the saber gives a clue to the location of the Jedi home world?

Or maybe Kylo pulls a new Force power out of nowhere and he can feel Luke's essence through it?

Anyway... Not happening now.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
UnemployedVillain said:
Why would the force wake up R2D2? It's not like the movie explanation of things made any more sense
Click to expand...

Technically BB-8 talking to R2 start his slow reboot to full power, as basically R2 heard they had the map fragment and knew he had the rest in his data bank. This btw is not a shock because Ren also had the same thing R2 had and he got it presumably from old Imperial databanks (which is where R2 got it too).

Now what they failed to do was hint at that in that scene, a little light turning on on R2 would have been sufficient. That said, oh well it's hardly a big deal.

But there I just gave you a better explanation than why somehow a lightsaber Luke hasn't had for 25+ years would hold the map to finding him.

BocoDragon said:
I do think a literal map in the handle is silly.

Clearly Jedi lightsabers are rare. That's why Kylo's is imperfect. Maybe the crystal in the saber gives a clue to the location of the Jedi home world?

Or maybe Kylo pulls a new Force power out of nowhere and he can feel Luke's essence through it?

Anyway... Not happening now.
Click to expand...

Umm pretty sure Anakin just built it in between 1 and 2 somewhere on Coruscant

Thing is the saber has as much Anakin and even Kenobi as it does Luke (more so even for Anakin), i really shouldn't be the thing that helped find Luke because arguably the green saber which Luke built would make more sense, that was his lightsaber. The first one works better has a family heirloom not as a metaphysical connection to Luke.

The map as a map is a better device than the saber as some sort tracking beacon.

The saber has more personal meaning and functions much better as Rey's come to Jedi moment then it would have as the thing that found Luke.
 
Q

Queen of Hunting

Unconfirmed Member
also im guessing its possible Rey is Luke's daughter ? seems like an obvious thing to go with but seems like many hints are there,
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
excelsiorlef said:
Meh that sounds kinda silly, why would the map to Luke be in the saber he lost 25+ years ago....
Click to expand...

The rumors weren't super detailed, but the hints vaguely pointed to the lightsaber having more detailed history past somebody finding it on Bespin and it being just a trophy/relic.

It would have been a completely different movie, so who knows how the other plot points would have worked out.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
-ImaginaryInsider said:
The rumors weren't super detailed, but the hints vaguely pointed to the lightsaber having more detailed history past somebody finding it on Bespin and it being just a trophy/relic.

It would have been a completely different movie, so who knows how the other plot points would have worked out.
Click to expand...

rue and I haven't seen that version so it's hard to really say it wouldn't have worked but just at first thought, it seems like much more of a stretch and challenge to actually use the lightsaber as the thing that leads them to Luke rather than a map

ALso now that I think of it, the force vision Rey sees shows Luke and R2 right? That's possibly the moment he gave R2 his part of the map
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
excelsiorlef said:
Umm pretty sure Anakin just built it in between 1 and 2 somewhere on Coruscant
Click to expand...

Yeah, when Jedis were around.

Lightsabers are obviously rare in the OT era, let alone TFA era.

Pretty sure they are a lost art, and that was the original impetus for why Kylo's lightsaber is some janky home-brew knockoff.

excelsiorlef said:
The saber has more personal meaning and functions much better as Rey's come to Jedi moment then it would have as the thing that found Luke.
Click to expand...

It would obviously still be Rey's weapon in that version of the film.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
excelsiorlef said:
But it was a map pointing to his exact location, there's no reason to land on random planets. It wasn't a fucking treasure map or an Indiana Jones obstacle course, it was a google maps saying go here. Now they could have written it different but why? What logical reason would it be to have the meeting of the protag and antag be not the climax of the film and what reason would you have a 20 minute planet surfing montage as your climax?

Also how do they find this base? They only find Starkiller because the FO fired it.

I love these suggestions because they almost always end up making the movie worse not better.
Click to expand...

Then why have a series of "steps" in the map and not just the destination planet?? Why even have a map and not just coordinates? The way they presented it makes no sense if all that mattered was his final destination.

Okay, so let's say that was a map of the islands and which one he was on. Again, showing more than just the coordinates of his location don't make sense.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
MMarston said:
I'm still confounded as to why George felt like he had to add that significant extra cog and not make use of/expand on it in the future
Click to expand...

George wanted a noir mystery but couldn't figure out how to write a noir mystery.

It wants to be sci-fi Chinatown... but it's actually just Obiwan talking to person A who leads him to person B, and yadda yadda yadda person Z is Dooku and the secret is that there's a clone army.
 
G

Gravidee

Member
I'm still confounded as to why George felt like he had to add that significant extra cog and not make use of/expand on it in the future
Click to expand...

This mystery was finally explained in the TCW series. Completely overlooked in the movies though.
 
QuantumZebra

QuantumZebra

Member
Lifejumper said:
People not liking maz makes me sad :(
Click to expand...

Yea I don't get it. Then again there's a ton of criticisms about the movie I've seen that just don't make sense to me (Rey is "too" strong, Snoke is stupid, Harrison Ford phoned it in, Finn should have been in a PTSD coma the whole movie, etc...).


I think people dismissing Rey being Luke's daughter should look a bit deeper though; there's a ton of hints to it, and Kathleen Kennedy said the main movies were all "about the Skywalker lineage" ... it makes sense to have Luke's be the other side of it.
 
H

hobozero

Member
Went to see the movie again (in glorious 2D), and for some reason I feel like Rey is one of the Boys from Brazil.

My Dumb Theory (apologies if it's mentioned earlier in thread :():
Empire makes a bunch of clones of Vader after he dies, but none of them can use the Force, or they go nuts, or die, or whatever. So they go all Gregory Peck/Mengele and figure, OK, let's reproduce his DNA AND his upbringing. Annakin grew up in servitude on a desolate planet, so they make a bunch of clones and dump them into servitude on remote planets. Each one has an agent assigned to watch them for signs of Force sensitivity. So:
  • That's why Rey was abandoned at an early age on a desert planet
  • That's why she appears to have been given to the fat salvage dealer in the flashback/vision
  • That's why the fat salvage dealer was able to immediately contact the First Order about BB-8, and why he knew the FA were looking for the droid in the first place.
  • And that's why she reacts when she touches Annakin's lightsaber (who had it way longer than Luke, to be fair)

Also, The Boys from Brazil is a badass movie, and seems like the kind of thing JJ might be into.

kiRwaiT.jpg
 
QuantumZebra

QuantumZebra

Member
hobozero said:
Went to see the movie again (in glorious 2D), and for some reason I feel like Rey is one of the Boys from Brazil.

My Dumb Theory (apologies if it's mentioned earlier in thread :():
Empire makes a bunch of clones of Vader after he dies, but none of them can use the Force, or they go nuts, or die, or whatever. So they go all Gregory Peck/Mengele and figure, OK, let's reproduce his DNA AND his upbringing. Annakin grew up in servitude on a desolate planet, so they make a bunch of clones and dump them into servitude on remote planets. Each one has an agent assigned to watch them for signs of Force sensitivity. So:
  • That's why Rey was abandoned at an early age on a desert planet
  • That's why she appears to have been given to the fat salvage dealer in the flashback/vision
  • That's why the fat salvage dealer was able to immediately contact the First Order about BB-8, and why he knew the FA were looking for the droid in the first place.
  • And that's why she reacts when she touches Annakin's lightsaber (who had it way longer than Luke, to be fair)

Also, The Boys from Brazil is a badass movie, and seems like the kind of thing JJ might be into.

kiRwaiT.jpg
Click to expand...


I can see that line of theory and respect it, but I can't help but feel like the filmmakers will go for the heavier (and easier) reveal of Rey being Luke's daughter. Her being Kenobi's grandkid is interesting too, but I see that as the least likely of these 3.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
halp

Rogue One, what is it gonna be about?

IMDB

Rebels set out on a mission to steal the plans for the Death Star.

"Death Star"...? What?
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yoshichan said:
halp

Rogue One, what is it gonna be about?

IMDB

Rebels set out on a mission to steal the plans for the Death Star.

"Death Star"...? What?
Click to expand...

Please tell me you actually thought for a second that there's gonna be a Death Star 4. xD
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
BocoDragon said:
Please tell me you actually thought for a second that there's gonna be a Death Star 4. xD
Click to expand...

just for one fucking second, I swear I was about to strangle someone :lol
 
M

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
When all these spinoffs come out, anybody gonna even attempt to SW movie marathon with those in?
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I finally understand how Palpatine managed to destroy legendary jedis in RotS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ESOrF_u1hg&t=0m37s

0:37

As Palpatine force spins his way towards the threat, you can clearly hear him Force Shouting. The poor jedi got demoralized by the shout, which gives them no time to defend against Palpatines fierce attacks. Windu was the only jedi who had trained to resist such a unique force spell.

George Lucas was at his peak with this movie.
 
T

the black pearl

Member
QuantumZebra said:
Yea I don't get it. Then again there's a ton of criticisms about the movie I've seen that just don't make sense to me (Rey is "too" strong, Snoke is stupid, Harrison Ford phoned it in, Finn should have been in a PTSD coma the whole movie, etc...).


I think people dismissing Rey being Luke's daughter should look a bit deeper though; there's a ton of hints to it, and Kathleen Kennedy said the main movies were all "about the Skywalker lineage" ... it makes sense to have Luke's be the other side of it.
Click to expand...

Whose dismissing it in that way? Most people who are dismissing it are doing so because it would feel way too telegraphed. It's so "logical" that its boring.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
The plot ultimately surrounds a tried and true staple of SW (the Death Star), but we've never seen a heist movie or anything focused solely on rank and file military set in the Star Wars universe. Rogue One is interesting just for that.

We've got A LOT of spinoffs to go folks. Disney will keep churning these out until the end of time or people stop giving a shit about Star Wars whichever comes first. They're got years and years to explore the universe more beyond the Skywalkers and expand the lore.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
The plot ultimately surrounds a tried and true staple of SW (the Death Star), but we've never seen a heist movie or anything focused solely on rank and file military set in the Star Wars universe. Rogue One is interesting just for that.

We've got A LOT of spinoffs to go folks. Disney will keep churning these out until the end of time or people stop giving a shit about Star Wars whichever comes first. They're got years and years to explore the universe more beyond the Skywalkers and expand the lore.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping we don't have to wait a decade before we finally get a story that has no mentions of the Skywalkers, Solo, The Empire, Death Star or really anything from the OT
 
C

ConfusingJazz

Member
The movie was alright. I thought Poe got the short stick. I liked the idea of Stormtroopers having a conscious. I thought Han's reasoning to go back to smuggling was sound. Even though I saw the Han-Kylo Ren thing coming, it was ok and understandable.

I hope they go more into how a government backed paramilitary organization could be called The Resistance, and how in the hell the First Order has so much power. Whatever happened to the New Republic?

I thought Kylo Ren looked ridiculous without the helmet, though I did like the helmet itself!

I thought Rey being able to immediately control the force was ridiculous, and hopefully there is an explanation on why she can already hone her powers. Like, she was the only survivor of Kylo Ren's rampage at Luke's academy or something. I would prefer her to not be the daughter of Luke.

Unless he got freaky during the Ewok celebration.
 
C

Calabria

Banned
just saw it, i thought the it's the worst SW movies of all

1. The SW universe is the size of Omaha, Nebraska
- Fin crash landed in planet Jakku, then walked for miles. Coincidentally, he met Rey. they were chased by stormtroopers. Coincidentally, they found Millennium Falcon and got away with it
- They escaped and floated in this supposedly vast galaxy, coincidentally got captured by Han Solo
- Then Han Solo took them planet Takonada, Rey coincidentally found Luke's lightsaber
- Then thre resistance showed up with Princess Leia and 3CPO

srsly WTF, how big is the SW universe?!? within a few hours (max) the movie forcefully chained together all the old SW characters and artifacts, that just sounds so stupid

2. Too much cliche scenes like spaceship battles and shoot-out with stormtroopers, not enough close-up character development scene. Reunion between Leia and Han Solo falls flat, interrupted by the not-funny 3CPO. COMPLETE FAIL!!!
There's only one memorable scene, the death of Han Solo. The rest of the movie is forgettable

3. Kylo Ren is a complete failure as SW villain. He showed up in the beginning like a total badass, able to suspend blaster bolt or laser beam in mid-air. I have seen no Jedi or Sith able to do that before, they either had to take cover or parried the beam with their sabre. And yet this badass Kylo Ren was able to stop and suspend it in mid-air. He's a badass right?!?! WRONG! in the end he got his ass-whooped by some girl who just discovered THE FORCE a few minutes before, give me a break! where's the consistency of Kylo Ren's power and ability??? FAIL!

Overall it's a complete let-down
 
R

RyanW

Member
I feel like if Rey is not Luke's daughter, she is either 1.) a clone of Luke or 2.) someone of a new bloodline we know nothing about but still relevant to past events like the destruction of Luke's new Jedi Order

1.) Someone found Luke's Lightsaber which probably means someone found his hand in the process. Maybe even the Empire did it.


2.) She was related to someone who was training under Luke or was the one being trained, had her memory wiped via the force after the attack to not scar her, and Luke left her on Jakku.


She's obviously important and Kylo Ren seems to know who she is. We only see him freak out once in the movie when the guy tells him Finn and BB8 were accompanied by a girl and he says in a fairly pissed off tone and I believe choking the guy "What girl?"

In the novelization when Rey force pull the Lightsaber out of the snow and not Ren he says something along the lines of "So it is you." Maybe looking too much into it.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
RyanW said:
I feel like if Rey is not Luke's daughter, she is either 1.) a clone of Luke or 2.) someone of a new bloodline we know nothing about but still relevant to past events like the destruction of Luke's new Jedi Order

1.) Someone found Luke's Lightsaber which probably means someone found his hand in the process. Maybe even the Empire did it.


2.) She was related to someone who was training under Luke or was the one being trained, had her memory wiped via the force after the attack to not scar her, and Luke left her on Jakku.


She's obviously important and Kylo Ren seems to know who she is. We only see him freak out once in the movie when the guy tells him Finn and BB8 were accompanied by a girl and he says in a fairly pissed off tone and I believe choking the guy "What girl?"

In the novelization when Rey force pull the Lightsaber out of the snow and not Ren he says something along the lines of "So it is you." Maybe looking too much into it.
Click to expand...
Rey is a clone of Luke...? Now that's an interesting one.
 
R

RyanW

Member
I think what some people need to remember about the battle between Rey and Ren is that Ren just got shot in the side by a Bowcaster AND just killed his father. Not only is he physically hurt but his mind is probably all over the place right now. Not to mention we see Rey have some skill with a staff in the beginning so she can probably hold here own somewhat well. Finn probably got some training as well when being a part of the First Order.
 
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