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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Fine, then we just won't call it cloning but my theory still stands. It's Star Wars and not everything in it is scientifically accurate.
The Librarian
Banned
It's a pretty crappy theory, I think. The reason why Rey is awesome is because she's a "clone" of a dude?
Ugh.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because it was an unknown system and a map which guides you through system to system would be helpful to find it and because it's more visually interesting than coordinates.
excelsiorlef
Member
Went to see the movie again (in glorious 2D), and for some reason I feel like Rey is one of the Boys from Brazil.
My Dumb Theory (apologies if it's mentioned earlier in thread):
Empire makes a bunch of clones of Vader after he dies, but none of them can use the Force, or they go nuts, or die, or whatever. So they go all Gregory Peck/Mengele and figure, OK, let's reproduce his DNA AND his upbringing. Annakin grew up in servitude on a desolate planet, so they make a bunch of clones and dump them into servitude on remote planets. Each one has an agent assigned to watch them for signs of Force sensitivity. So:
- That's why Rey was abandoned at an early age on a desert planet
- That's why she appears to have been given to the fat salvage dealer in the flashback/vision
- That's why the fat salvage dealer was able to immediately contact the First Order about BB-8, and why he knew the FA were looking for the droid in the first place.
- And that's why she reacts when she touches Annakin's lightsaber (who had it way longer than Luke, to be fair)
Also, The Boys from Brazil is a badass movie, and seems like the kind of thing JJ might be into.
Except she wasn't a slave, she could have run away whenever she wanted to, it was her inability to let go of hope that her family would come back that kept her there.
That depends. Are midichlorians like mitochondria or are they outside the cells? The way Qui-Gon described them, they might not be carried over by cloning.
Shit. Technically Rogue one is a prequel leading right into ANH. Crazy to think people will add that in.
the black pearl
Member
I think its a fun and clever theory, but it doesnt mean I want them to use it.
The prequels established that R2D2 is actually a robot jedi so this makes sense.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Finn Wars: A Janitor's Story
the black pearl
Member
r2d2 is the biggest mary sue of all
could be. or maybe I just expected more out of Kylo Ren. I watched SW right after The Revenant. Hugh Glass got mauled by a bear
Got his leg and ribs broken. His back and shoulder tore open, his throat ripped and yet still able crawl and limp-off for 200-miles back to the camp in severe weather, while occasionally fighting off the French and Indians
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Like I said, R2-D2 got the force powers from Skippy the Jedi Droid when he sacrificed himself on Tatooine.
UnemployedVillain
Member
So change what I said from "planets" to "systems"...You know what would have been visually interesting? Not simply seeing a before and after, but seeing really weird alien vistas or even solar systems. She wouldn't need to land on the planets, but even like how Interstellar had these amazing views of planets, they could have done something like that
excelsiorlef
Member
It still would have come off as anti-climatic and unnecessary after the huge fight and the map being put together.
The movie was built up to finding Luke, the road itself to him is about as important as how Maz got the lightsaber, it's not.
Well unless you want to make an entire movie about it, then sure but who would have wanted Episode VIII to be just Rey finding Luke?
You can't have the climax and then a 20 minute montage epilogue, not in a film like this,
funkystudent
Member
The best thing about this movie was that R2D2 and C3P0 got about 45 seconds of screen time the entire film.
Great video. Really puts things in perspective.
UnemployedVillain
Member
The road itself isn't as important, because the movie made it not important. My point is that the movie spent a ton of time on the incredibly transparent throwback that was the Star Killer, when it could have been surrounding the mystery of where Luke was and Rey learning about the force. You can disagree, I'm just stating that it would have been more interesting. Obviously it wouldn't work on it's own, but in addition to the other 2 changes I proposed it would've
As a newcomer to Star Wars, this was a very enlightening perspective on the series. I've now watched episodes 2 through 7 in a span of a couple months and enjoyed them all.
I also totally agreed with him in regards to how the Storm Troopers felt more than a faceless army, with Finn being the prime example. I was pleasantly surprised when not only that badass stun baton trooper, but Kylo himself acknowledge that Finn was a traitor. The battles felt more personal with that known. Finn's decision to defect felt a lot more impactful, imo. Even if he was just a lowly janitor at one point. lol
Twilight Gap
Member
prag16
Banned
Family ties aren't inherently bad. Regardless, it's highly likely that everyone pounding the table for Rey to be just some rando are going to wind up disappointed. And it wouldn't make much sense either. All the hints and buildup would be strange, only to ultimately have a space-balls esque "what does that make us? ... nothing!" type reveal.
This post is a dumpster fire. There are legitimate things to call out, but you sort of missed most of them, while adding in a bunch of crap indicating that you weren't really paying much attention to the movie.
1. Some of those weren't really coincidences at all (were you paying attention?). But regardless, every movie has coincidences if you're looking to get nitpicky and tear every little thing apart.
2. Space battles and shootouts with stormtroppers are "cliches"?? The movie definitely doesn't let up; lots of action throughout, but Rey, Finn, and Kylo all had some reasonable development imo. I had no issue with the Han/Leia reunion.
3. Kylo Ren is definitely a divisive character. He's more complex than just another blank slate baddie, and I think it's pretty clearly fully intentional that he seems to be something of a "poser" in some ways. That's probably kind of the point, but part of it is people don't fucking pay attention to the movie. He just killed his father in a very emotional event, and then took one to the gut from a bowcaster, which had been depicted all movie long as a weapon that fucks people up blows them back and launches them into the air.
It's understandable that we're still getting these kneejerk negative laundry list posts. They're at least better then the driveby one line negative posts. But I just wish people had a better handle on what they were critiquing. Disregarding Kylo's serious injury in the final fight, considering spaceship battles bad because "cliche", and viewing Leia showing up at Takodana as purely coincidental; all that combines to remove all credibility from posts like these.
Watch it again, this time without the chip on your shoulder. (This post probably reads unnecessarily harshly, but it becomes tiresome with how many times these threads have jumped the shark [the Maz hate train that has materialized recently is the latest example], and stuff like this mixed in; maybe I should just take this out of my bookmarks and move on with life...)
EDIT: Also +1 to the guy below me. People have issues being objective, and nostalgia goggles may come into play very often with regard to the OT (granted a lot of that is prequel stuff which many maintain "doesn't count" but even the OT in a vacuum is enough to draw the comparison).
This post is a dumpster fire. There are legitimate things to call out, but you sort of missed most of them, while adding in a bunch of crap indicating that you weren't really paying much attention to the movie.
1. Some of those weren't really coincidences at all (were you paying attention?). But regardless, every movie has coincidences if you're looking to get nitpicky and tear every little thing apart.
2. Space battles and shootouts with stormtroppers are "cliches"?? The movie definitely doesn't let up; lots of action throughout, but Rey, Finn, and Kylo all had some reasonable development imo. I had no issue with the Han/Leia reunion.
3. Kylo Ren is definitely a divisive character. He's more complex than just another blank slate baddie, and I think it's pretty clearly fully intentional that he seems to be something of a "poser" in some ways. That's probably kind of the point, but part of it is people don't fucking pay attention to the movie. He just killed his father in a very emotional event, and then took one to the gut from a bowcaster, which had been depicted all movie long as a weapon that fucks people up blows them back and launches them into the air.
It's understandable that we're still getting these kneejerk negative laundry list posts. They're at least better then the driveby one line negative posts. But I just wish people had a better handle on what they were critiquing. Disregarding Kylo's serious injury in the final fight, considering spaceship battles bad because "cliche", and viewing Leia showing up at Takodana as purely coincidental; all that combines to remove all credibility from posts like these.
Watch it again, this time without the chip on your shoulder. (This post probably reads unnecessarily harshly, but it becomes tiresome with how many times these threads have jumped the shark [the Maz hate train that has materialized recently is the latest example], and stuff like this mixed in; maybe I should just take this out of my bookmarks and move on with life...)
EDIT: Also +1 to the guy below me. People have issues being objective, and nostalgia goggles may come into play very often with regard to the OT (granted a lot of that is prequel stuff which many maintain "doesn't count" but even the OT in a vacuum is enough to draw the comparison).
Think about the opening of the first Star Wars movie.
Anakin Skywalker boards a ship to track down Leia, his daughter, who sticks the Death Star plans inside her mother and Anakin's old R2 unit and sends them off to Tatooine with the protocol droid Anakin built as a child, where they are found by her brother Luke Skywalker who, unknown to him, is in hiding using his real name at the home of Anakin's stepbrother. And none of these people or droids know they are related to each other.
I hope you like disappointment.
KaoticBlaze
Member
Yeah I'm getting sick of the Ren hate in the final battle. The dude is injured, currently not in the best state of mind after killing his father, emotionally unstable, and not even fully trained yet. Give the guy a break. I have a feeling we'll get to see Ren's character grow and develop over the course of the new trilogy just as we saw Anakin grow over the course of the Prequels.
You know, another thing occurred to me why I like Kylo Ren. It does away with the evil personality = evil look.
In the originals, Vader and the emperor looked evil, but that was just the armor and injuries and Palpatine being old and looking bad. The prequels were the ones that looking evil was not just a visual cinematic aesthetic, but actually caused physiological changes. Anakin's eye became yellow and Palpatine was actually revealed to be a monster. Maul looked awesome, but also a satanic archetype than an alien per second. The only exception was Dooku, who just like a guy. It's such a unsubtle way to visually depict a bad character.
Kylo Rey's costume however is just that. A costume and once he takes the mask off, his sheer ordinary look is shocking. He's neither good looking or bad or Hollywood handsome (for me anyway, but I'm no expert on men's looks. One time, I judged a guy to look like a bit of an alien, but apparently he was the hottest guy on our floor. So what do I know). In the context of a series where you're moral character is represented by your looks, Ben looking absurdly ordinary not only subverts audience expectations, but visually informs the audience that his struggle with his light side is real and there is hope. If he looked like a badass villain without the mask, the struggle wouldn't be communicated as effectively. So it's no accident then that he got scarred by Rey in the face not long after this, where from now on he will get to wear the consequences of his sin on his face.
In the originals, Vader and the emperor looked evil, but that was just the armor and injuries and Palpatine being old and looking bad. The prequels were the ones that looking evil was not just a visual cinematic aesthetic, but actually caused physiological changes. Anakin's eye became yellow and Palpatine was actually revealed to be a monster. Maul looked awesome, but also a satanic archetype than an alien per second. The only exception was Dooku, who just like a guy. It's such a unsubtle way to visually depict a bad character.
Kylo Rey's costume however is just that. A costume and once he takes the mask off, his sheer ordinary look is shocking. He's neither good looking or bad or Hollywood handsome (for me anyway, but I'm no expert on men's looks. One time, I judged a guy to look like a bit of an alien, but apparently he was the hottest guy on our floor. So what do I know). In the context of a series where you're moral character is represented by your looks, Ben looking absurdly ordinary not only subverts audience expectations, but visually informs the audience that his struggle with his light side is real and there is hope. If he looked like a badass villain without the mask, the struggle wouldn't be communicated as effectively. So it's no accident then that he got scarred by Rey in the face not long after this, where from now on he will get to wear the consequences of his sin on his face.
Saw the movie a 3rd time today at an AMC IMAX to get that sweet poster (though it's a small one dammit). Was gonna meet a buddy there but his car wouldn't start cause it's below zero in MN, so I just went by myself!
It's funny on repeat viewings how incredibly clear it is that Kylo is fucking with Finn in that last fight. He knocks out Rey, then waltzes up to Finn swinging his saber around like "let's get this over with already, you fucking traitor." Then Finn pulls out Luke's saber, and he gets pissed off. Within the first 10 seconds of them fighting, he knocks Finn straight on his ass, hard. Then he walks away! He lets Finn get back up. He's more annoyed then anything. He's distracted by other things, wounded, the planet is about to explode. Finn is just a thorn in his side he has to deal with at this point. The dumb asshole who is ruining his day. He locks blades with him, then just starts torturing and taunting him by pushing the crossguard into Finn's shoulder, just cause he can. Finn gets out and swings wildly, catching Kylo in the shoulder and Kylo is like "alright, time to stop playing around." Immediately, next move he disarms Finn, sending Luke's saber flying through the air. Then he punches him in the face and slices his whole back up. Ends the fight in a matter of seconds when he wants to.
It's funny on repeat viewings how incredibly clear it is that Kylo is fucking with Finn in that last fight. He knocks out Rey, then waltzes up to Finn swinging his saber around like "let's get this over with already, you fucking traitor." Then Finn pulls out Luke's saber, and he gets pissed off. Within the first 10 seconds of them fighting, he knocks Finn straight on his ass, hard. Then he walks away! He lets Finn get back up. He's more annoyed then anything. He's distracted by other things, wounded, the planet is about to explode. Finn is just a thorn in his side he has to deal with at this point. The dumb asshole who is ruining his day. He locks blades with him, then just starts torturing and taunting him by pushing the crossguard into Finn's shoulder, just cause he can. Finn gets out and swings wildly, catching Kylo in the shoulder and Kylo is like "alright, time to stop playing around." Immediately, next move he disarms Finn, sending Luke's saber flying through the air. Then he punches him in the face and slices his whole back up. Ends the fight in a matter of seconds when he wants to.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Lol it's pretty apparent even on the first view...which is why the fact he gets beaten by someone who just learned about the force a few hours ago all the more jarring.
excelsiorlef
Member
Your proposal had a climatic fight followed by 20 minutes of frankly meaningless filler to get to the point of seeing Luke.
You can't have a huge fight, and that fight is the climax and then have 20 minutes of montage....
D.Lo
Member
He then completely owns Rey initially, until he offers to be her teacher. He doesn't t want to kill her, he wants to recruit her. She channels the force as the uber-force user and gets a few shots on him, disarming him.
The Rey final but could have been shorter, it could have been a single move. But the idea is clear, Ren is not trying to kill her, so that's why he doesn't dominate, irrespective of actual serious injury.
Lol it's pretty apparent even on the first view...which is why the fact he gets beaten by someone who just learned about the force a few hours ago all the more jarring.
Nah, she knew about the Force, knew who Luke Skywalker was and all that. She had just learned that she had the Force, not that the Force exists. And as I've pointed out several times, the most important piece of Force training is the awareness you are Force sensitive. It's realization of your own potential.
Kylo was supposed to bring her to Snoke, so it's not as if he was trying to kill her. That's why he knocks her out straight away and then goes to take out Finn. The saber going to her instead of him shook him more than he already was from all the other shit, AND from her getting into his mind earlier. Rey had him shook big time. She is already a capable melee fighter, so she is holding her own while continually retreating until a chasm opens up behind her, and he had to prove that he could try and dominate her again, so he tries to get her to give in by offering to teach her. Then the Force does what the Force does.
This meme makes me laugh every time.
He didn't want to kill her.
CreepingFear
Member
"You need a teacher. I can show you the ways of the force".
Uh huh, Kylo. Pimp game is weak.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Ooh guys trust me, I'm -the- Kylo defender here (it's basically my full time job at this point :lol). I meant that he could've easily trashed her, right there, but decided not to for multiple reasons (teaching, Snoke wanting her, etc).
So all these people bitching about Kylo getting "his ass beaten" seriously needs to shut the fuck up. Ever since day 1, I've had this discussion with people. People who seriously have no clue about anything.
Anyway, I put an order on all three "official" Kylo Ren weapons. Can't wait to do a detailed comparison. Expect me to flail around like an idiot with these weapons on Youtube :lol
So all these people bitching about Kylo getting "his ass beaten" seriously needs to shut the fuck up. Ever since day 1, I've had this discussion with people. People who seriously have no clue about anything.
Anyway, I put an order on all three "official" Kylo Ren weapons. Can't wait to do a detailed comparison. Expect me to flail around like an idiot with these weapons on Youtube :lol
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
The mask and weapon sells tickets, the cross saber won't change (although the crystal inside it might). Pretty sure the mask will remain the same though, he'll just grab another one from his wardrobe!
KaoticBlaze
Member
Didn't Rey destroy it in that final battle? or did she slash his hand or something just before she slashed his face?
The Xtortionist
Member
I thought he left his mask on the bridge. He didn't have it in the forest (?).
Relentless 757
Member
Some people need to watch the end again. Kylo owns Finn, he was clearly going easy on him. Immediately after Finn gets one hit in, Kylo quits fucking around and ends the fight in seconds.
Losing to Rey was a mixture of underestimating her abilities in the force and emotional frustration from the transpiring events. Otherwise, Ren would have destroyed Rey.
KaoticBlaze
Member
Sorry, I meant his Lightsaber. It was hard to tell if it got destroyed or not during the final fight.
He does not have his mask in the forest. You don't see him pick it up from the bridge after he drops it there.
He will have it again next movie they will probably just ¯_(ツ
_/¯ how he gets that back and gets off the planet.Sounds like you don't want a Star Wars movie then
He does not have his mask in the forest. You don't see him pick it up from the bridge after he drops it there.
He will have it again next movie they will probably just ¯_(ツ
- He got a new mask.
- Some janitor picked it up off the bridge
- He has a wardrobe full of identical masks
Take your pick.
Doesn't really matter, but he will (and should) have it. I doubt it will be new since his first one has some battle wear (unless they sell pre distressed masks at galactic hot topic).
I think the mask is part of how snoke controls/influences him, while he sees it as part of how he intimidates and controls others.
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