Anthony Daniels too.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Anthony Daniels too.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Is Finn force sensitive? When rey says I feel we'll meet again, I kinda feel like somehow Finn turns to the dark side because of his upbringing and becomes kylo rens apprentice. Then rey and Finn must fight in two or three with Finn coming back to the light after all that happens.
LegendofLex
Member
I interpreted that line as simply a confirmation that Rey shouldn't go back to wait for her family on Jakku, not a dismissal of the possibility that she's related to the Skywalkers.
Remember, she says specifically: "Whoever you're waiting for on Jakku...they're never coming back."
So the problem isn't that her family isn't out there, but that waiting for them on Jakku isn't the answer.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Seems pretty harsh for spoiler, don't you think?
Guys a asshole but I don't think deserves violence.
Nah Finn is like the reluctant hero who serves as comedic relief sometimes, not unlike Han Solo. Even though he has a different background and isn't a chill rebellious type he still seems to fill a similar role as Han. Basically he's the new Han without being the new Han at the same time if that makes sense. Although certainly after this film I guess his character could go anywhere really. He doesn't appear to have any force power.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Someone who goes out of his way to ruin people's enjoyment deserves an ass beating for sure. That way, he won't do it again. :\ If someone blurts something out, it's another story.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Interfectum
Member
Yeah I wouldn't want harm to come to him. An egg or two landing on the car would give me joy though.
Some of the clues that Rey is Lukes daughter:
In one trailer Luke is talking about the Force being strong in his family, his father, his sister, himself and he says "You have it too."
The lightsaber, it was Vaders. It was Lukes. Now it's Reys. See a certain pattern there.
Capable of the force and even Snoke and Ren felt her "awakening". Not sure if any ol person tapping in the Force would elicit such detection via the Force by others. Vader and the Emperor sensed Luke.
Plus you got the whole desert planet they lived on theme with each of them wanting to be somewhere else. Vader, Luke were the same albeit for different reasons.
Also a pilot, Vader, Luke again were damn good.
In one trailer Luke is talking about the Force being strong in his family, his father, his sister, himself and he says "You have it too."
The lightsaber, it was Vaders. It was Lukes. Now it's Reys. See a certain pattern there.
Capable of the force and even Snoke and Ren felt her "awakening". Not sure if any ol person tapping in the Force would elicit such detection via the Force by others. Vader and the Emperor sensed Luke.
Plus you got the whole desert planet they lived on theme with each of them wanting to be somewhere else. Vader, Luke were the same albeit for different reasons.
Also a pilot, Vader, Luke again were damn good.
Hmmm...we know she's waiting specifically for her family though, since she states it. So whoever she's waiting for isn't coming back, but someone might. The phrasing puts Luke separate from the former group she is waiting for, and since we know she is waiting for her family it seems to put Luke as separate from her family.
I agree that the whole exchange isn't specific enough to rule out her being Luke's daughter, but my larger point was the film absolutely does not make it explicit or obvious that she is Luke's daughter. We just don't know enough at this point to say.
brandonh83
Banned
Instead they gave him something more meaningful both for himself and the new villain, expanding and developing each further, which IMO was particularly good for each character. Han died with more humanity and feeling like he found more to live for than just being that assclown who always owes someone money and favors. I'm not too upset about that decision.
But you're right as many would have written it that way, and that's the most obvious way to go about it.
"You have it too" is a sequitur along the lines of the force, not family lineage.
The lightsaber is a non-sequitur.
What?
Desert planets are more of a Star Wars thing than anything. It's Jakku because she isn't a Skywalker.
They are good pilots because they are force sensitive. Obi Wan was a great pilot despite hating it. They are great compared to average people.
Also the TFA contradicts the theory that she is his daughter. Nothing in that movie reinforces it, in fact it staves off that possibility in multiple ways.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Personally I think this a reference to Ben but I suppose it could also be for Rey. I don't think she is Luke's daughter though.
The line is pulled from Return of the Jedi where Luke is specifically talking about how strong the Force is within his family. Bringing that line back and applying it to Rey (even for a trailer) is a pretty big sign. The line in its proper context is entirely about family lineage.
Red herring, still a non-sequitur. It has no bearing in the movie, and doesn't fit with what we know now.
A lot of the clues, including the trailer dialog, could easily be red herrings (since the obvious route would be for our hero to be a Skywalker), or simple clues that Rey is Force sensitive in general rather than having familial ties. We know Star Wars is ostensibly a story about the Skywalkers, and the fact is that Kylo Ren already makes this trilogy a story about the Skywalker family. Rey doesn't need to be a Skywalker for the story to be a Star Wars story, but they absolutely may play into that expectation to surprise people even if she isn't.
it's a pretty big sign that Rey being Luke's daughter is clear misdirection
who Rey is seems like it's going to be the biggest reveal of the new trilogy. I doubt they'd be hinting this heavily at what that reveal is, especially in a trailer for a movie that doesn't contain that reveal.
Was it though? I didn't feel that was earned really. There was no meaningful connection that I saw. We know they are father and son but the movie didn't sell me on the sincerity there.
It absolutely fits with what we know now, though. Every sign points pretty directly to Rey being a Skywalker. There isn't much dot-connecting that needs to be done here.
Rey has a Force vision after touching the Skywalker family lightsaber. The first two things she sees in those visions are Skywalker family conflicts (Luke/Vader and then Luke/Kylo), the third vision she sees is her being abandoned by her parents... given the trend of the previous two visions I wonder what the common link there is. She's also naturally super gifted with The Force, the only people on film that we've seen portrayed that way are all Skywalkers.
brandonh83
Banned
Rey's connection at best to Luke will be that she was a super gifted student that was somehow mind wiped and left on Jakku by Luke when things went to shit because he knew that her growing up in a place like Tatooine would be best for her until the right time -- i.e. when she's matured enough to realize her potential or when she's "needed." After the destruction of the Hosnian system and Kylo making his move on the chessboard, the time is right and he activates R2, who by no coincidence has the other map fragment so that Rey can seek him out for further, isolated training; away from Snoke.
And even that is an Amazon river caliber piss in the wind.
Several moments in the film reinforced Han's feelings of the matter. It rang true for me and made the character more meaningful to me other than just being a trouble maker. There was a similar development when he returned to help with the Death Star attack, but this deepened his humanity further and made him even more three dimensional. They honestly did way more with the character than simple nostalgia pandering.
And even that is an Amazon river caliber piss in the wind.
Several moments in the film reinforced Han's feelings of the matter. It rang true for me and made the character more meaningful to me other than just being a trouble maker. There was a similar development when he returned to help with the Death Star attack, but this deepened his humanity further and made him even more three dimensional. They honestly did way more with the character than simple nostalgia pandering.
I just don't see them going "surprise, Rey is actually the daughter of random new character that we don't know."
brandonh83
Banned
Yeah, I think Rey has a family proper and who knows, she may be a distant relative, perhaps even very distant of some Midichlorian-rich bloodline -- I said that just to be annoying -- but I don't think there'll be some shocking revelation regarding her relativity to a known character. I think Ben Solo was the big relative reveal of this trilogy, so they blew their loads already. I hope. Not saying that because I dislike the Solo-Skywalker son, I like it fine actually but if they keep doing it with everyone it's going to feel ridiculous.
If Rey were related to Luke, I think they would have planted the seeds or revealed it already.
So for all those years of building a new Jedi school, helping to raise Ben Solo. Luke's own daughter was left on Jakku, while Luke was palling around with his best friends and their son instead. That makes no sense.
Well maybe Luke sent her away to protect her when things went wrong. Well Han and Leia seem to have no inclination as to who she might be. Jakku isn't special to them. Leia who is a strong force feeler never even recognizes her.
She is clearly not a Skywalker.
my money's on a relation to the Kenobi bloodline
Force premonitions aren't new. Anakin had them, Yoda had them. Why is Konobi and Yoda also speaking to Rey through the force vision. They are calling out to her through the force, and through the force they are connected to Luke.
I swear, some of you really can't help but grasp.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I get the impression that she got trained by him. Otherwise she's just seeing visions of things that happened in the past that she wasn't there just because she touches an object that was there.. the force is the answer for everything. -_-
Well there it is.injurai said:
Obliterator
Member
Somehwat off topic here but it relates. After rewatching all 6 films in the last 2 weeks I'm kind of bummed out we will never get Georges Episodes 7-9. Man I would like to see what he came up with. I feel like his high points are better than anything in Episode 7 but his lows are Obviously much worse.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Dude, we know for a fact that Kylo is strong with the Force, is the son of Luke's sister, and was trained by Luke. How can you possibly think, after watching the film, that this quote is not about Kylo?
The idea in that case would be to reinforce the theme that anyone can be the hero. It might even be disappointing to Rey that her family is no big deal, until she learns that her past doesn't define her, but it's what she does now that is important.
When they did the flashback of Rey watching her parents fly away on a ship leaving her alone wasn't she old enough then to know who her parents were and remember now that she is what in her late teens early 20s? Been awhile since I've seen it and can't remember. But if she was, don't you think she would have known her father was Luke?
Trigonometrize.
Member
I hope Rey is unrelated to a jedi and I think she is going to be unrelated to a jedi. The "Star Wars is a Skywalker story" argument is resolved by Kylo Ren. Not to mention Luke is in these films anyway with some heavy problems still, so his story isn't even over.
As for Rey, my reasons for thinking she is unrelated come entirely from a writing perspective. Making her Luke's daughter is just too dang obvious. Making her Kenobi's granddaughter feels too Anakin made C-3PO stretching to make a connection. The perfect middle ground is clear to me, and the lack of any evidence pointing to anything particular in the movies tells me, ultimately: she's just a girl.
As for Rey, my reasons for thinking she is unrelated come entirely from a writing perspective. Making her Luke's daughter is just too dang obvious. Making her Kenobi's granddaughter feels too Anakin made C-3PO stretching to make a connection. The perfect middle ground is clear to me, and the lack of any evidence pointing to anything particular in the movies tells me, ultimately: she's just a girl.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
Why is this so confusing? It makes sense that Rey was a kid at the Jedi academy, teenage Kylo betrays Luke, kills everyone, spares Rey (his little cousin?) or she escapes/hides, and she ends up on Jakku, either for her own safety or unknown to Luke.
Yes, but she also didn't know how she could understand Chewbaca, how she managed to pilot the Falcon so well, or where her knowledge of the force came from, so it looks like she's had her memories tampered with, or some serious head trauma haha.
They're not leaving her origins such a mystery is she's "just a girl". Obi-Wan's daughter or female clone or something along those lines is possible, but thematically, it makes most sense for her to be a Skywalker.
Anakin had them about his mother and only about Amidala after she was carrying his children. Yoda had vague premonitions that were never really explained, but Luke had specific premonitions about Leia, his sister.
Rey's specific premonition of Lukes island fortress of solitude can't just be swept under the "super good at the force" rug.
I'm not convinced that they're related necessarily, but it seems that there is absolutely a strong connection between the two.
People be seeing that article?
"Star Wars Fan Debunks Huff Post's "40 Unforgivable Plot Holes in The Force Awakens""
I think I agree with the fan on 9/10 of them.
"Star Wars Fan Debunks Huff Post's "40 Unforgivable Plot Holes in The Force Awakens""
I think I agree with the fan on 9/10 of them.
This is my only referencing the prequels since Lucas pretty much directed and wrote it all. I don't think his highs were that high in those. The best moments imo were Order 66, the Maul fight and Anakin/Obi wan fight.
EdReedFan20
Member
But there are 40, not 10. ;p And, I agree with the guy. A lot of the "plot holes" aren't even plot holes at all. Some things the Huffington Post author called plot holes are straight up explained in the movie (and like the writer of the article said, the guy clearly was not paying full attention).
LegendofLex
Member
Both conversations involving Han and Leia where her background was likely to come up happen off-screen:
- the one between Han and Maz, where Maz asks "who's the girl?"
- the one where Han apparently mentioned Rey after telling Leia that he'd seen their son
It seems immensely likely that both characters know who she is, but are inclined not to reveal anything to her/Finn.
EdReedFan20
Member
Yup. I think those cutaways are very important. It allows the characters to freely tell other characters what they know (albeit off screen), but not the audience.
The Maz thing can be fairly easily explained away. It wasn't an accusatory question aimed at Han, it was an inquiry because, who is the girl? They visited Maz to get BB-8 to the Resistance. Since Finn is ostensibly a "big deal" with the Resistance, and had helped BB-8's owner Poe escape from the First Order, the bulk of their discussion is about BB-8 and the Resistance and aimed at Finn, since Maz seems to sense he just wants to run and isn't actually connected to the Resistance.
When he leaves, and Rey goes after him, logically she asks "Who the hell is this girl tagging along?" She probably sensed the Force in her at that point as well, and that her destiny was intertwined with the light side and Luke going forward, and is simply trying to learn who she is. So Han tells Maz who she is: She's a scavenger from Jakku who got mixed up in this whole mess, offered her a job on board the Falcon but she says she can't cause she's waiting for people on Jakku.
Next time Maz sees her, after the Force vision, she says Han told her about this, but she obviously can't go back since she already knows no one is returning for her, and the Force is obviously calling to her.
There could be more to Han and Maz's conversation, but there doesn't have to be either.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
Yeah, if Han didn't know who she was, or didn't even have an inkling who she was, we would have seen him say that. Keep in mind, the next time we see Maz after that conversation, she's been looking for Rey and seemed to know exactly where she'd be and what drew her there. Probably because she's aware of the mystical jedi family heirloom and it's connection to Rey.
LegendofLex
Member
I think it's telling that the first time we see Maz after she asks the question is when she shows up in the basement just in time to see Rey snap out of the lightsaber vision.
Of course, in isolation, the line doesn't mean anything. But that the line is a prologue to a very significant scene where we the audience get our biggest introduction to who Rey might actually be, I think we're definitely supposed to read into it.
Obliterator
Member
The back half of Episode 3 is better thab The Force Awakens overall imo. I was blown away at TFA when I first saw it, and I still love it but in retrospect it was an incredibly safe movie with very very little in the way of risks. I wish they would have done a bit more with it. I hope they do a bit more in Episode VIII and IX
We don't know the age difference between Rey and Kylo Ren, when Kylo Ren's betrayal occurs, or specifically when Rey is left on Jakku. If we use their real ages as any kind of metric, Daisy Ridley is 23 and Adam Driver is 32, they're 9 years apart in age (a larger age gap than Anakin and Padme). That's a plenty substantial age gap between the two to say that Kylo Ren could have been a powerful apprentice to Luke while Rey was still 7 or 8 years old.
9/10 is just a fraction! "I agree with 9/10 of these 40 things." Same as saying "I agree with 90% of these 40 things."
But yeah, word re the whole "plot hole" thing. The film has a couple of them but they're so minor.
Apparently their real ages are approximately the characters' ages, too. Rey is meant to be 20-22 and Kylo meant to be 30-32.
WadiumArcadium
Member
At the time of the film Rey's 19 and Ben's between 29 and 30. Ben's betrayal is more recent than most people think. Pablo Hidalgo's confirmed it's less than fifteen years.
If Rey was left on Jakku at the age of 7 or 8 that would put Kylo Ren at the age of 17 or so when he would betray Luke (assuming Rey is left on Jakku as a result of Ren's betrayal). 17 seems like the absolute perfect age for a young powerful member of the Skywalker bloodline to get corrupted by someone like Snoke.
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