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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Obliterator
Member
Its certainly in the running, and while I think AOTC has the worst individual scenes of all of them I still like it as a package more than TPM
I tend to think Rey is the start of a new Skywalker-like bloodline. I don't think she's parts of the family. I believe she's just THAT strong in the Force.
Like I said a few pages back after my 2nd viewing; Rey is obviously the new Anakin for this trilogy. Skilled mechanic, gifted pilot, very strong in the Force, etc. She doesn't really struggle with anything in TFA. Rey is essentially perfect, save for not wanting to accept her parents aren't returning.
Rey being Luke's long lost daughter seems like a cheap out for the writers.
Interfectum
Member
TPM suffers from the greatest of sins in regards to action movies... it's boring as fuck. Even ATOC and ROTS had some shit to keep me interested. TPM is dull, characters are fucking wood, humor is juvenile at best and half the time I felt like I was watching a cartoon.
Garbage movie.
Garbage movie.
Lifejumper
Member
cuz its dark.
Obliterator
Member
After rewatching them all in the past 3 weeks my personal ranking is
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. A New Hope
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
Might be because subjectively speaking ROTS had more "good bits" despite the overall meh package
Still a bad movie though
Interfectum
Member
Because it has some OT stuff in it at the end (death star building, darth in suit, emperor, young tarkin, birth of the empire). Other than that it's a pretty awful movie.
Mine is
- Empire Strikes Back / Return of the Jedi (tie)
- Force Awakens
- A New Hope
- Revenge of the Sith
- Phantom Menace
- Attack of the Clones
Cause it's actually a pretty good movie in parts. Hayden's terrible acting is actually a boon to his character in this film because he's just supposed to be an embodiment of irrational anger.
Interfectum
Member
SW rankings! 
Empire
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Dog Shit
Cat Shit
Prequels
Empire
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Dog Shit
Cat Shit
Prequels
I remember liking it a lot when it first came out, but I re-watched it last weekend and it was pretty bad.
Interfectum
Member
Nah it's still bad. The Anakin vs Obi Wan fight was long, drawn out and boring plus the quotes during that fight are some of the worst in any movie (including Freddy Got Fingered).
Obliterator
Member
Some of ya'll need to rewatch A New Hope with no nostalgia involved. It is not that great of a film by any means.
Incredible for its time and a game changer but yeah, all these years later its really not that impressive. Its kind of amazing how loyal the OT fanbase is
Incredible for its time and a game changer but yeah, all these years later its really not that impressive. Its kind of amazing how loyal the OT fanbase is
DiipuSurotu
Banned
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Force Awakens
3. Star Wars
4. Return of the Jedi
Waiting to see where Rogue One will sit.
2. The Force Awakens
3. Star Wars
4. Return of the Jedi
Waiting to see where Rogue One will sit.
LegendofLex
Member
Because the direction the story is moving carries enough weight to keep people intrigued even through some terribly acted and terribly written scenes.
TPM has basically no weight throughout. AOTC tries but flubs most of the scenes that represent significant turning points/moments of introspection for the characters. ROTS has some hammy lines and bad interactions between Padme and Anakin, but puts Palpatine front and center which makes the turning points much stronger.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
Ranking for me is:
1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. ROTJ
5. TPM
6. ROTS
7. AOTC
Though personally for me when I rewatch the series I skip the prequels.
They're great sleeping aides though.
1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. ROTJ
5. TPM
6. ROTS
7. AOTC
Though personally for me when I rewatch the series I skip the prequels.
They're great sleeping aides though.
Saw the prequels before the OT, no nostalgia here.
Guess I'll have to re-watch because all I remember is being incredibly bored and cringing at the terrible dialogue.
This is fair.
I've rewatched it over the past 2 weeks and it was waaay better than I remembered. The cinematography is top notch and the acting is pretty good as well. The action is all well paced, the dialog is better than any of the prequels, and it ends in a satisfactory manner.
Really good movie IMO.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I still like Sith. Shit actually happens for a start and I usually enjoy it. I liked the Cruiser landing, Order 66, the Plagueis story, Boga and Anakin vs Obi-Wan. I did love it as a kid though so it may sway my judgement more than others.
Clones is my least favourite. The Anakin Padme scenes are pretty cringe worthy and it drags more than the other two.
1) The Empire Strikes Back
2) A New Hope
3) The Force Awakens
4) Return of the Jedi
5) Revenge of the Sith
6) The Phantom Menace
7) Attack of the Clones
Clones is my least favourite. The Anakin Padme scenes are pretty cringe worthy and it drags more than the other two.
1) The Empire Strikes Back
2) A New Hope
3) The Force Awakens
4) Return of the Jedi
5) Revenge of the Sith
6) The Phantom Menace
7) Attack of the Clones
Interfectum
Member
It still had characters worth investing in. The effects and overall setup might be dated as fuck, but the characters are still great.
The biggest problem with the prequel movies are the characters are all very underdeveloped and wooden. They aren't fun to watch or be around. That fact may be why Episode 3 is liked above the rest because at least Obi Wan and Palpatine came out of their shell in that movie. It felt like Ewan was finally getting into the Obi Wan role.
It's really a question of which bad movie to put above the other bad movies.
As for for the TFA v. ANH comparisons: it shares some broad plot strokes and even a few ideas (similar MacGuffin). But once you step down to the character level and their respective arcs, the comparison falls apart completely.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
The definitive list:
- Empire Strikes Back
- The Force Awakens
- A New Hope
- Return of the Jedi
- Revenge of the Sith
- Attack of the Clones
- Phantom Menace
Interfectum
Member
Yup. People are only looking at the big set pieces (empire/rebel, deathstar) and completely ignoring the character arcs. In fact, people say it's too much like AHN then are pissed when Kylo doesn't follow the same arc as Vader... lol
Surely this is not the first time you've heard this? Just googled "Phantom Menace A New Hope similarities," first result:
That doesn't even touch all of them.
Here's an article on StarWars.com all about it!
Saying The Force Awakens is a straight copy of ANH is a lazy, surface level observation, and one that the thread has discussed many times already. The argument can only be made by ignoring anything new in the film, and ignoring how it tweaks many of the beats it borrows so they aren't simple repeats. And ignoring how the actual story that our new characters go through is new to the series.
The story of a storm trooper abandoning his position because he sees it is morally wrong, and how he learns to stop running from his past and realize he actually wants to help and do the right thing, partnering up with a lowly scavenger who is suffering from abandonment issues, and how she learns to let go of her past and take control of her life after realizing her own potential, and how together they help each other overcome these issues, and face a conflicted villain who is being tempted by the light side, and makes a drastic choice to solidify the dark side in his life, a villain who is still learning, who is threatened for different reasons by both of our new heroes and ends the film with very personal reasons to oppose them.
Obliterator
Member
I mean a lot of A New Hope is just flat out boring. People bash Lucas for all kinds of dragging out scenes in the prequels and yet we get like 15 straight minutes of 3P0 and R2 walking around Tattoine and fucking around with Jawas. Then we get 30 minutes of Obi, Luke, and Han wandering around the Deathstar. I dont feel like that film holds up well at all.
Tier 1: I can rewatch these films over and over without getting bored.
ESB
ANH
Tier 2: Really solid films that do have some issues here and there but enough highs as well.
ROTJ
ROTS
TFA
Tier 3: Not really good but still there are things that I can appreciate
TPM
Tier 4: Just a mess, really not to try my hardest not to fall asleep or turn it off.
AotC
ESB
ANH
Tier 2: Really solid films that do have some issues here and there but enough highs as well.
ROTJ
ROTS
TFA
Tier 3: Not really good but still there are things that I can appreciate
TPM
Tier 4: Just a mess, really not to try my hardest not to fall asleep or turn it off.
AotC
prag16
Banned
Not bad, not bad. He was stretching a bit on a few of them (mainly in his strong repeated assumption that Solo obviously knew who Rey was all along, and in his assumptions about Unkar Plutt) but overall he absolutely demolishes that garbage article.
EDIT: Ah, we're doing lists again?
5, 4, 7, 3, 6, 2, 1
On second viewing I can say 7 is reaaaaly close to 4, but I can't quite bring myself to elevate it quite yet.
The Librarian
Banned
For figuring out who Rey is, specifically, this is the most relevant.
This, to me, increases the chances of her not being related to Luke.
Interfectum
Member
Again though, we put up with the 30+ minutes of Obi, Luke and Han wandering around because they are great characters. It doesn't matter what they are doing, they are fun to be around. The problem with the prequels, especially Episode I, is those characters are boring to be around. They are completely wooden and even some of their decisions and actions make no sense. The only one with any personality is Jar Jar and you want to shoot him in the face.
brandonh83
Banned
Just watched RotS again. Spotty dialogue and acting in places but it's loads of fun, great action, opera scene is amazing, cinematography is mostly excellent, wonderful music and lastly still disagree hardcore with those who don't like the final duel. Story wise it moves at a great pace and is just far more entertaining than the first two.
Of course it's all fine when it comes to opinions, but hey, opinions are being questioned and here's the answers, at least for myself. I put it over RotJ. Easily.
Of course it's all fine when it comes to opinions, but hey, opinions are being questioned and here's the answers, at least for myself. I put it over RotJ. Easily.
Luke and Han wondering around the deathstar was the opposite of boring and for me the strongest part of the film. A lot of great character moments.
Count Dookkake
Member
.
sand
Obliterator
Member
I 100% agree and thats why I rank A New Hope higher than AOTC and TPM
I just think ROTS is better than ANH and the best prequel by far. Everything starting with the Opera scene on is pretty great imo and several of those scenes are the best of all the films
The Lamonster
Member
Here's my list:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menance
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menance
In regards to the early Tattoine scenes:
They can be fairly boring, sure, but it does set up the planet as being fairly backwater and uninhabited. And it allows you to believe that it takes quite some time for the Stormtroopers to track down the missing droids (cause it's so big and there ain't shit).
The Deathstar scenes are all fantastic though, I dunno what you're on about. Han's character elevates what should be a boring rescue mission into a full blown caper with laser guns. Plus Obi-Wan sneaking around knowing that Vader is tracking him down. You can see the pieces of the clock all moving independently in a very fluid way.
It's all good though, at least we can all agree that TPM and AOTC are dumpster fires.
LegendofLex
Member
The villains weren't interesting and had a laughably poor presence throughout the movie.
I think that's ultimately what it boils down to, even considering the scenes where Anakin spills his guts to Padme.
Yup. I think another key bit is Maz's line to Rey:
Maz (paraphrased): "I see it in your eyes: you already know the truth. The people you are waiting for on Jakku...they've never coming back. But there is someone who still may."
Rey: "....Luke."
This scene makes no sense if Luke was the one to send her away. Unless it's a feint along the lines of 'Vader killed your father', but I really don't think that's the case in the context of the other evidence.
The film actual being about Anakin becoming vader makes it even worse because it is so bad written and badly executed.
In Sith I really think Hayden had the look down of a young Anakin slowly turning into Vader. It just sucks that most of the performances felt so stilted.
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