• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

A

aliengmr

Member
TFA
ESB
ROTJ
ANH
Prequels

Kylo Ren was what really did it for me. I loved all the new cast but Kylo Ren was probably my overall favorite.
 
QuantumZebra

QuantumZebra

Member
brandonh83 said:
Wait what did he say that has spurred such a comment?
Click to expand...

More of a sideways comment about not being able to view gender issues through the eyes of one with privilege - not necessarily a dig at the person I think.

In terms of ranking the films, I think I've landed on:

1. TFA
2. ESB
3. ANH
4. ROTJ
5. Guardians of the Galaxy



aliengmr said:
TFA
ESB
ROTJ
ANH
Prequels

Kylo Ren was what really did it for me. I loved all the new cast but Kylo Ren was probably my overall favorite.
Click to expand...

Seeing the backlash of fanboys against Kylo Ren amused the shit out of me because he was essentially a caricature of angry fanboys. Really great, flawed character IMO.

Rey still da GOAT doe.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
Oh, we're in the rating phase now, ok:

ESB
TFA
ANH
ROTJ
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

I'm being cautious with TFA, want to see how it holds up to with time. Could go higher, could go lower.

I've always been in love with the ESB soundtrack.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
Calabria said:
didn't Padme involed in some of the battles in ANH?
Click to expand...

I think you mean AOTC?

Anyway, she fought in Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Useless in ROTS, both action-wise (understandable because she was pregnant) and character-wise. She was literally just kept alive so that she can give birth and die.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
Calabria said:
maybe my problem is that I saw TFA right after The Revenant, like basically after I finished The Revenant I walked to the next cinema and saw TFA, so everything just don't compare, the characters, the scenery, the brutality, etc. TFA looked so amateurish compare to The Revenant.
Click to expand...

Except all of The Revenant's characters are archetypes who don't really achieve any growth or change.

The Revenant is arthouse cinema for the bro crowd.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Joeytj said:
I think you mean AOTC?

Anyway, she fought in Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Useless in ROTS, both action-wise (understandable because she was pregnant) and character-wise. She was literally just kept alive so that she can give birth and die.
Click to expand...
then she died because lol emotions
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Padme is a means to Luke and Leia and Anakin's hella contrived dark side turn. With no other purpose.

Leia gets to watch the climax in ANH and be super sexy for no reason in ROTJ.

Up until TFA Star Wars had arguably the worst track record with women of all the major sci-fi/fantasy movie franchises
 
M

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Calabria said:
what a pregnant woman suppose to do?!? running around killing stormtroopers?
Click to expand...

oh hi i'm a vocal politician who can totally fight just through my words but so far I've done nothing in this film but sit around and listen to other people talk.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Calabria said:
what a pregnant woman suppose to do?!? running around killing stormtroopers?
Click to expand...

She was still useless as a character in that movie. Understandable that she was pregnant and about to give birth, but even character wise she had no other use but to give birth. Oh and to get force choked by Anakin.
 
C

Calabria

Banned
Inferno313 said:
Except all of The Revenant's characters are archetypes who don't really achieve any growth or change.

The Revenant is arthouse cinema for the bro crowd.
Click to expand...

except its a real-story. in the book, if its all true, it's said that his wound is far more gruesome, and his journey is much longer than in the movie
 
Z

zma1013

Member
Calabria said:
still disagree, here's why

ATTENTION. ATTENTION everyone. I have huge, no, massive problem with Kylo Ren power level inconsistencies.

In the beginning, this dude stopped and suspended a blaster bolt in mid-air, and what is a blaster bolt? is it just a mere physical projectile? no, it is not.

according to wiki

blaster bolt consists of lights and or particle based energy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(Star_Wars)

now what force in the universe can stop a light from moving??? I can think of only one, black hole. So this guy should be God-like power with black-hole power level, if he can stop light or energy from moving.

AND YET....

1. he can't influence Rey with his power, eventhough up until the capture Rey had no clue what power is, she thought it was a myth let alone experienced it herself
2. With his massive power Kylo Ren should be able to regenerate his wound, he should be like Wolverine on steroid at this level. (didn't he teleport to cut Fin and Rey escape route?? how did he get there so fast if he's wounded??)

see my problem there's many inconsistencies with this guy power
Click to expand...

He's not manifesting black holes, that's reading into something that simply isn't there. They most likely just decided having him stop a laser in mid air would be a cool thing to do and they were right. I highly doubt they put much thought into it past that because there simply doesn't need to be and I don't see how one could even begin to make a comparison between that and his Powwwaaa level. Is stopping laser blasters a lvl 55 upgrade and mind reading only a lvl 20 upgrade?

Now it's my turn to read into something that may or may not be there but certainly way more to support it is Rey's sudden ability to use da Force. The way it's presented seems like it's almost a defensive mechanism, like a reflex or a survival instinct within her that simply "awakened" during a very crucial moment when she needed it most. It seemed like she just did it not knowing she was even doing it at first. Kylo Ren appears to have inadvertently jump-started her Force powers to his own detriment funny enough.

And actually she did know the Force was real at that point because Han told her it was, as did old lady Yoda.

And regenerating wounds? Where in the Star Wars movies do they get that power? I don't remember this. Why didn't Anakin just whip himself up some new legs and remove his scars? Do force users get this ability at lvl 40?
 
M

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Boke1879 said:
She was still useless as a character in that movie. Understandable that she was pregnant and about to give birth, but even character wise she had no other use but to give birth. Oh and to get force choked by Anakin.
Click to expand...

It really is too bad that all meaningful stuff she apparently does during these events (e.g. organizing the Rebellion) got chucked into DVD deleted scenes.
 
QuantumZebra

QuantumZebra

Member
Calabria said:
still disagree, here's why

ATTENTION. ATTENTION everyone. I have huge, no, massive problem with Kylo Ren power level inconsistencies.

In the beginning, this dude stopped and suspended a blaster bolt in mid-air, and what is a blaster bolt? is it just a mere physical projectile? no, it is not.

according to wiki

blaster bolt consists of lights and or particle based energy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(Star_Wars)

now what force in the universe can stop a light from moving??? I can think of only one, black hole. So this guy should be God-like power with black-hole power level, if he can stop light or energy from moving.

AND YET....

1. he can't influence Rey with his power, eventhough up until the capture Rey had no clue what power is, she thought it was a myth let alone experienced it herself
2. With his massive power Kylo Ren should be able to regenerate his wound, he should be like Wolverine on steroid at this level. (didn't he teleport to cut Fin and Rey escape route?? how did he get there so fast if he's wounded??)

see my problem there's many inconsistencies with this guy power
Click to expand...

Holy shit where do I even begin.


A. Blaster bolts are NOT *NOT* pure energy (I can't believe im discussing this over a scifi film) and even if they were the guy stopped 1 bolt, not a fucking star.

B. Since when in the everliving fuck did the Force give people Wolverine-regeneration? Even in the whacky EU where people brought themselves back from the dead and shit, no one ever regrew organs/limbs/etc with the force.


The Librarian said:
She's the only female character in the movie and her scenes get deleted

lololololololololol
Click to expand...

yea its ... well its bad... its just bad
 
C

Calabria

Banned
zma1013 said:
He's not manifesting black holes, that's reading into something that simply isn't there. They most likely just decided having him stop a laser in mid air would be a cool thing to do and they were right. I highly doubt they put much thought into it past that because there simply doesn't need to be and I don't see how one could even begin to make a comparison between that and his Powwwaaa level. Is stopping laser blasters a lvl 55 upgrade and mind reading only a lvl 20 upgrade?

Now it's my turn to read into something that may or may not be there but certainly way more to support it is Rey's sudden ability to use da Force. The way it's presented seems like it's almost a defensive mechanism, like a reflex or a survival instinct within her that simply "awakened" during a very crucial moment when she needed it most. It seemed like she just did it not knowing she was even doing it at first. Kylo Ren appears to have inadvertently jump-started her Force powers to his own detriment funny enough.

And actually she did know the Force was real at that point because Han told her it was, as did old lady Yoda.

And regenerating wounds? Where in the Star Wars movies do they get that power? I don't remember this. Why didn't Anakin just whip himself up some new legs and remove his scars? Do force users get this ability at lvl 40?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he can create black-hole or anything like, i'm just saying that he's power level must be extremely massive, beyond any Jedi or Sith we've seen
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
The Librarian said:
Spurred what kind of comment? If you're a man, with your gender being fantastically represented in our culture, it's not entirely surprising for you to not give a single thought, as he put it, to a movie's treatment of gender.
Click to expand...

He specifically said he just enjoyed the film and the gender treatment didn't matter to him either way, which implies he doesn't care how either males or females are represented. As in, he simply thought it was a good movie and it wasn't because of how it treats women or something. Yet its obviously gotta be twisted into a gender argument. He's saying if it were a good treatment of males, great. Females, great. Either way it can still be a good movie. That's his perspective, at least I'm assuming so.
 
30yearsofhurt

30yearsofhurt

Member
Calabria said:
still disagree, here's why

ATTENTION. ATTENTION everyone. I have huge, no, massive problem with Kylo Ren power level inconsistencies.

In the beginning, this dude stopped and suspended a blaster bolt in mid-air, and what is a blaster bolt? is it just a mere physical projectile? no, it is not.

according to wiki

blaster bolt consists of lights and or particle based energy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(Star_Wars)

now what force in the universe can stop a light from moving??? I can think of only one, black hole. So this guy should be God-like power with black-hole power level, if he can stop light or energy from moving.

AND YET....

1. he can't influence Rey with his power, eventhough up until the capture Rey had no clue what power is, she thought it was a myth let alone experienced it herself
2. With his massive power Kylo Ren should be able to regenerate his wound, he should be like Wolverine on steroid at this level. (didn't he teleport to cut Fin and Rey escape route?? how did he get there so fast if he's wounded??)

see my problem there's many inconsistencies with this guy power
Click to expand...


Like wolverine eh? smh
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
brandonh83 said:
He specifically said he just enjoyed the film and the gender treatment didn't matter to him either way, which implies he doesn't care how either males or females are represented. As in, he simply thought it was a good movie and it wasn't because of how it treats women or something. Yet its obviously gotta be twisted into a gender argument. He's saying if it were a good treatment of males, great. Females, great. Either way it can still be a good movie. That's his perspective, at least I'm assuming so.
Click to expand...

And that's not a good thing! We should all care about how gender is treated in our culture at large, especially with something as dominating as Star Wars.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
Calabria said:
I'm not saying he can create black-hole or anything like, i'm just saying that he's power level must be extremely massive, beyond any Jedi or Sith we've seen
Click to expand...

It was mentioned by Rey that he was scared he wouldn't be as powerful as Vader so one would assume he is less powerful than Vader. Most likely they probably wanted to just show off some cool new powers to give us something new to see or are we destined to forever only have force chokes and throwing random debris? He also froze people in place, which in my opinion is something much more interesting and powerful to talk about.
 
QuantumZebra

QuantumZebra

Member
Calabria said:
I'm not saying he can create black-hole or anything like, i'm just saying that he's power level must be extremely massive, beyond any Jedi or Sith we've seen
Click to expand...

I feel like it is implied with the whole "Awakens" business and the fact that these are descendants of the most powerful Force users (I operate on the assumption that Rey is Luke's daughter and I'm not straying from it till Ep. VIII says differently) - we are dealing with until now never before seen abilities (minus the ridiculous EU bullshit).
 
K

KevinG

Member
The Librarian said:
Well that's sad to hear, though if you're a man that's not entirely unexpected.
Click to expand...

Or how about we live in a world where everyone isn't perpetually offended by everything and just enjoy a film for what it offers?

Absolutely nothing wrong about watching Star Wars and not spending the film thinking about how the gender roles are being defined.

Edit: It's not being passive about an "evil" or anything of that nature. It's watching a film and not reading between the lines, often reading into things that aren't there or were never intended by any stretch of the imagination.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
Ignoring real-world gender / racial representation as it applies to fiction can be seen as "not seeing color" / not caring, and, y'know, "he who passively accepts evil" and all that.

EDIT: doubly hilarious that someone praising Star Wars for its gender representation is met with people saying that outrage culture is ruining film.
 
G

Gurrry

Member
Stumbled upon an interview with Jake Lloyd(little anakin skywalker) and it really made me feel bad for the kid. It sounds like he got picked on endlessly and still does this day for his role in the prequels.

Considering he was far from the worst part of that movie, that award goes to jar jar, people sure can be assholes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtkM2JPcHPo

edit: now i just read about how he beat up his mom and ran away from police in a high speed chase... ehh.. now i dont feel bad anymore
 
G

Good Job Bob

Member
Was this posted?

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/ne...much-darker-in-tone-says-john-boyega#/slide/1

[We’re] just starting work on ‘Star Wars VIII,’ the next film, so I’m back to keeping secrets again,” Boyega said. “It’s great. Much darker, but we’re very excited.”

As for whether his injuries sustained in battle with Kylo Ren will require any cybernetic enhancements, we’re not sure, but the actor is certain there will be a lot more fighting next time.

“No, for [Force Awakens] we really just took it scene by scene, there wasn’t a huge regime,” Boyega continues. “My part in the next film will be much more physical so I might be in the gym a bit more.”
Click to expand...

Will Finn be kicking ass in Ep 8?
 
G

Gintamen

Member
Calabria said:
In the beginning, this dude stopped and suspended a blaster bolt in mid-air, and what is a blaster bolt? is it just a mere physical projectile? no, it is not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(Star_Wars)

now what force in the universe can stop a light from moving??? I can think of only one, black hole. So this guy should be God-like power with black-hole power level, if he can stop light or energy from moving.

AND YET....

1. he can't influence Rey with his power, eventhough up until the capture Rey had no clue what power is, she thought it was a myth let alone experienced it herself
2. With his massive power Kylo Ren should be able to regenerate his wound, he should be like Wolverine on steroid at this level. (didn't he teleport to cut Fin and Rey escape route?? how did he get there so fast if he's wounded??)

see my problem there's many inconsistencies with this guy power
Click to expand...
His force grip is at master level?

Rey awakened her force powers, it even says so in the movie title. We don't know what happened to her prior to her being left alone on Jakku, she could very well have begone her jedi training to a degree already.

Only very few force users had something like healing in their repertoire, dark force users usually tried something like body transfer. Bacta tanks are usually usef for healing body parts anyway.

*EU so it doesn't matter. :(
 
V

Veelk

Banned
KevinG said:
Or how about we live in a world where everyone isn't perpetually offended by everything and just enjoy a film for what it offers?

Absolutely nothing wrong about watching Star Wars and not spending the film thinking about how the gender roles are being defined.
Click to expand...

I try to avoid the gender discussion because I would rather have TFA's gender standards be commended, but not define the film as a whole. Any great character in star wars will have more to be said about them than "Is a man/woman in franchise". Still, I recognize it's important. However, it seems like a contradiction to 'enjoy a film for what it offers' while ignoring the fact that it offers wonderful gender representation.

KevinG said:
Edit: It's not being passive about an "evil" or anything of that nature. It's watching a film and not reading between the lines, often reading into things that aren't there or were never intended by any stretch of the imagination.
Click to expand...

This makes even less sense. Representation was obviously a major part of the vision for this film. Putting aside scenes that emphasize Rey's ability to be independent, you're pretty naive to the ways of Hollywood if you think some executive didn't see the script and go "You know, rey and Finn are pretty good at all, but wouldn't it be better if we made them white dudes?"
 
U

User 73706

Banned
KevinG said:
Or how about we live in a world where everyone isn't perpetually offended by everything and just enjoy a film for what it offers?

Absolutely nothing wrong about watching Star Wars and not spending the film thinking about how the gender roles are being defined.

Edit: It's not being passive about an "evil" or anything of that nature. It's watching a film and not reading between the lines, often reason into things that aren't there or were never intended by any stretch of the imagination.
Click to expand...

Not all subtext manifests as tumblr slash fics.

Veelk said:
I try to avoid the gender discussion because I would rather have TFA's gender standards be commended, but define the film as a whole. However, it seems like a contradiction to 'enjoy a film for what it offers' while ignoring the fact that it offers wonderful gender representation.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
J

jesu

Member
Calabria said:
still disagree, here's why

ATTENTION. ATTENTION everyone. I have huge, no, massive problem with Kylo Ren power level inconsistencies.

In the beginning, this dude stopped and suspended a blaster bolt in mid-air, and what is a blaster bolt? is it just a mere physical projectile? no, it is not.

according to wiki

blaster bolt consists of lights and or particle based energy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(Star_Wars)

now what force in the universe can stop a light from moving??? I can think of only one, black hole. So this guy should be God-like power with black-hole power level, if he can stop light or energy from moving.

AND YET....

1. he can't influence Rey with his power, eventhough up until the capture Rey had no clue what power is, she thought it was a myth let alone experienced it herself
2. With his massive power Kylo Ren should be able to regenerate his wound, he should be like Wolverine on steroid at this level. (didn't he teleport to cut Fin and Rey escape route?? how did he get there so fast if he's wounded??)

see my problem there's many inconsistencies with this guy power
Click to expand...

Never heard of a skill tree?
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
QuantumZebra said:
That's uhh... not what I said at all.

Han and Luke had great arcs in the OT, Leia was stagnant and IMO regressed as it went on.
Click to expand...

Like I said above while Luke is out there saving the galaxy and Han is prepping his heroic return to save the day, Leia watches from a spaceship and does fuck all in the climax of ANH and then proceeds to basically do fuck all in ESB before the infamous slave bullshit of ROTJ
 
A

aliengmr

Member
Calabria said:
still disagree, here's why

ATTENTION. ATTENTION everyone. I have huge, no, massive problem with Kylo Ren power level inconsistencies.

In the beginning, this dude stopped and suspended a blaster bolt in mid-air, and what is a blaster bolt? is it just a mere physical projectile? no, it is not.

according to wiki

blaster bolt consists of lights and or particle based energy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(Star_Wars)

now what force in the universe can stop a light from moving??? I can think of only one, black hole. So this guy should be God-like power with black-hole power level, if he can stop light or energy from moving.

AND YET....

1. he can't influence Rey with his power, eventhough up until the capture Rey had no clue what power is, she thought it was a myth let alone experienced it herself
2. With his massive power Kylo Ren should be able to regenerate his wound, he should be like Wolverine on steroid at this level. (didn't he teleport to cut Fin and Rey escape route?? how did he get there so fast if he's wounded??)

see my problem there's many inconsistencies with this guy power
Click to expand...

There is a precedent for manipulating particles with the force. Oddly enough, it was Han and Leia's children that did it. Granted that isn't canon anymore, but it isn't entirely out of left field. It's not a god-like power really.
 
K

KevinG

Member
Veelk said:
I try to avoid the gender discussion because I would rather have TFA's gender standards be commended, but define the film as a whole. However, it seems like a contradiction to 'enjoy a film for what it offers' while ignoring the fact that it offers wonderful gender representation.
Click to expand...

I didn't say I was ignoring the representation. If I stop to think about it, and say, "Hey, Rey was a great female character!" Which I do say, but that isn't central to my enjoyment of the film, and has no crucial bearing on why I rank it highest of all the Star Wars films.

This is my final word on this. Haha.

Never intended for this to be a full on analysis of my stance on gender roles, or lack thereof.

Just enjoying some Star Wars discussion. :)
 
G

Gintamen

Member
Sub-Zero at a Starbucks said:
EDIT: doubly hilarious that someone praising Star Wars for its gender representation is met with people saying that outrage culture is ruining film.
Click to expand...
The Librarian was the one attacking for someone enjoying the movie without paying attention to gender representation though. Hey I think most are happy for progress, but those that don't care should be allowed to enjoy it anyhow. Mad Max:FR is progressive too, yet criticizing someone for not caring if Furiosa was male/female is pretty absurd.
jesu said:
I don't think I can accept a director of a Star Wars film being younger than me :(

JJ is younger than me isn't he?
FML.
Click to expand...
Just accept that you an old man. Abrams looks quiet fresh for someone nearing his 50th birthday.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Poll
Vintage Favorite Star Wars Character Thread (spoilers possible)
41
2K
Lunarorbit replied
Star Wars: Dark Forces Remaster | Review Thread
Analysis Review 2
58
7K
sloppyjoe_gamer replied
Star Wars Outlaws | Review Thread
Analysis Review 8 9 10 11 12
583
48K
midasmulligan replied
How the Star Wars: Dark Forces Remaster devs Nightdive Studios enhanced the classic FPS
Game Dev
14
2K
Alexios replied
LTTP: Star Wars Jedi Survivor - Full Open Spoilers
18
1K
Trilobit replied
Top Bottom