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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Obviously some details are different, but the fact is that Kylo was clearly toying with Finn in that fight. Kylo knocking Finn to the ground and walking away to pound his wound rather than strike really sells it. Finn then gets one lucky hit, and Kylo just ends him immediately afterwards.
"He was toying with him" is a description of what happens in the fight, so no, it doesn't answer why Kylo yells "Traitor!" and invites a fight rather than just cutting Finn down. But I think the reasons why Kylo fights Finn when he doesn't need to are all pretty clear. Finn's defection is the start of things Not Going According to Plan--it's not just betrayal in the abstract, it's a betrayal that's specifically fucked things up for Kylo in the here and now. Also, there's some jealousy involved because of Kylo's struggles with his doubts and the "pull of the light" that he feels. Kylo is hurt and angry and in a state of crisis, his plans and allies are crumbling, he's proved vulnerable exactly when he thought he was attaining an iron and invincible mental discipline, and here's this traitor who's taken the easy exit--an exit that Kylo has just irrevocably closed off to himself--of course he wants to fight.
Finn represents everything Kylo wants to punch at the moment Kylo most badly needs to punch something.
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeaaaa that's how I got em too. I honestly don't know how some people put Jedi higher than the other OT movies or TFA. Outside of a few minor elements and the throne room scene it's almost as bad as the prequels.
Empire is far and away the best, no contest. But TFA and ANH are pretty close for me.
Sometimes you just wanna turn back time because motherfucker, was that 2nd teaser good.
Regarding the powers of Rey and Kylo:
I think if we look at how the force looked in the prequels, original trilogy, and now The Force Awakens, it's clear to me that the force becomes stronger and weaker depending on the epoch. In the original Star Wars, we clearly got a force in remission after a "golden age" of sorts seen in the Old Republic. Fast forward to The Force Awakens, and the force is all but non-existent with Vader and Palpatine killed, and only Luke--and apparently Snoke--to carry on the legacy.
Furthermore, a weak force season seems to coincide with a stark and strong imbalance. After Order 66 was executed, the only active force practitioners were Vader and Palpatine, while Luke, Obi Wan, and Yoda were all in some form of hiding. At the end of Return of The Jedi, only Luke is there to represent the light side. The force seems at odds with the wills of those who can wield its power in that there always should be light and dark, not only one or another.
Therefore, the force ebbs and flows, continuously distributing its power to balance out each side. Kylo Ren is powerful, but misguided in his mastery. Same goes for Rey, who is a quick learner, but doesn't understand her destiny.
I hope that made some kind of sense.
I think if we look at how the force looked in the prequels, original trilogy, and now The Force Awakens, it's clear to me that the force becomes stronger and weaker depending on the epoch. In the original Star Wars, we clearly got a force in remission after a "golden age" of sorts seen in the Old Republic. Fast forward to The Force Awakens, and the force is all but non-existent with Vader and Palpatine killed, and only Luke--and apparently Snoke--to carry on the legacy.
Furthermore, a weak force season seems to coincide with a stark and strong imbalance. After Order 66 was executed, the only active force practitioners were Vader and Palpatine, while Luke, Obi Wan, and Yoda were all in some form of hiding. At the end of Return of The Jedi, only Luke is there to represent the light side. The force seems at odds with the wills of those who can wield its power in that there always should be light and dark, not only one or another.
Therefore, the force ebbs and flows, continuously distributing its power to balance out each side. Kylo Ren is powerful, but misguided in his mastery. Same goes for Rey, who is a quick learner, but doesn't understand her destiny.
I hope that made some kind of sense.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The prequel trilogy is full of fantastic concepts, and Qui-gonn might be the best.TPM had the coolest Jedi in the prequel trilogy.
TPM had the coolest Jedi in the prequel trilogy.
And the coolest Sith
Attack of the Clones was probably the one that had most potential to be good, if it focused on good actual character development that would lead into Revenge of the Sith.
Sure, that all sounds good. It goes with him throwing tantrums and cutting up the walls and computers and stuff when stuff doesn't go his way. However with the planet blowing up around him, maybe not the best time to be playing with his food but I guess angry people don't make the smartest decisions.
From what I remember, Starkiller didn't start going to shit until he was in the middle of fighting Rey
The planet didn't start blowing up until midway through the Kylo/Rey fight.
Order of events:
Rey and Finn run into Kylo. Finn fights Kylo and loses badly, once he stops fucking around.
Rey takes up the saber and they fight for a few moments.
Cut to Poe taking out the, um, weak point?
Cut back to Kylo/Rey, and the ground starts to break up as their fight continues.
No, Phasma's actually a good example of this.
What happened to Phasma would have happened to a male character in that same role. Her gender was irrelevant.
Many, many of the things that happened to Padme and Leia would NEVER have happened to a male character (even discounting the pregnancy bit)
Trade federation stuff was used to get palpatine in a position in power. And the movie not only introduced Anakin but Obi-wan and he he came to be Anakin's master.
The pod racing was awesome, and was needed to as there were no other immediate resolution to fixing the ship but to gamble for the parts needed.
And discovering Anakin at that age with strong ties to his mother was a tool used to push him over the edge in AotC.
There was nothing wrong with TPM from a story point of view, it all made sense, especially in the grand scheme of things.
Also it gave us qui-gon and Maul , the coolest Jedi & sith.
Music is also up there with the best the franchise has offered.
Episode 8 to have an empowering shirtless Poe Dameron scene.
Actually now that they're under the same umbrella as Marvel I wouldn't be surprised by a little beefcake action.
QuantumZebra
Member
Monocle
Member
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
The movie was good, but Rey kicking Ren's ass like she maxed out the force was eh.
And did Han knew he was going to die, and agreed after Ren's speech?
And did Han knew he was going to die, and agreed after Ren's speech?
Because treatment of female characters seems to be the only criteria you have for ranking TFA at #1. Which is fine, of. course.
But then you attack people for not agreeing with your line of thinking....people who even enjoyed the movie. I find that hilarious.
It's not enough that people enjoy the same movie as you. They have to enjoy it for the same reasons, too.
The hilarity ensues.
QuantumZebra
Member
Not this shit again.
We've been over the Kylo Ren should've been dead 20 minutes before the fight and still fought Rey to a ledge till she centered herself and overcame him bit. It's not difficult.
And I got the impression Han was telling Kylo to do what he had to, and that he loved him anyway.
I think Han knew he was going to die when Leia asked him to bring their son back
QuantumZebra
Member
That, too.
I think he was 75% sure he was done for, and the glimmer of hope went away when the star drained.
KaoticBlaze
Member
I feel like he thought that he was getting through to Ren up until that whole lighting changed and Ren gripped the lightsaber as Han was trying to take it. I think that was his "oh shit i'm about to die" moment lol
Its a privilege to be able to discount the representation present in TFA compared to the other films.
This is a privilege I also happen to have, but choose not to exercise because I also believe that the most important, and best part of this movie, is that the two leads are a woman and a black man.
This Is Important. It is the most Capital I Important aspect of the film. In fact everything else about it is objectively Not Important in any meaningful way.
But now, the highest grossing movie Of All Time, stars a woman and a black man.
OF
ALL
TIME
Yeah we can have our arguments about the force and the prequels and whether Ewoks are objectively horrible, but none of that Matters.
If you think those things matter more, then you are, almost certainly, exercising the privilege you have inherent in your race and/or gender.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Oh yeah. Forgot about that. I loved how he kept pounding his side.
How old is Ren? He seems very young.
I felt like there was some self fulfilling prophecy in his death. like he was only trying to salvage that relationship because Leia wanted him too. during Han and Leia's hug you can tell Han is kind of thinking to himself, "she's nuts, Ben's hopeless.."
when Kylo is handing the saber over Han looks legitimately surprised because he didn't expect it to happen. and then it didn't happen.
He definitely knew he might be walking to his death when he decided to step out onto that bridge. That first step took some effort. But I think in the moment he thought things were going right, up until he grabbed the lightsaber and Ben strengthened his hold on it rather than letting go.
See, I think we, the informed audience, knowing that Ford didn't sign on for 3 movies helped us think Solo would die. But then again, the way TFA had so many callbacks to the OT, his death was kind of obvious.
So basically, Check Your Privilege, right?
you could see it on his face. it reminded me of the look Han gave Luke in Empire. he knew some shit was about to go down.
You need the middle section exposed to kill bugs as they fly around your War Dragon
Qui-Gonn is such a terrible non-character and an incredible waste of Liam Neeson.
CharmingCharlie
Member
With regards to the end light sabre fight I think the differences in light sabres will also have had an impact. You have Ren fighting, he is badly injured, mentally compromised and he is using a light sabre that is of questionable quality. The way Ren's light sabre flickers it is clearly unstable and no match for Vadars/Lukes Light Sabre
Think of it like a sword master that is having to fight with a sword that is inherently unbalanced. No matter how good the sword master if the sword is below par then the wielder is going to perform worse than you would expect.
At the end of the day I had no problems with the fight. All things being equal Ren would have beaten the crap out of Finn and Rey. However things were not equal and I feel there were enough obstacles shown in the movie to adequately explain how Rey was able to take Ren down
Think of it like a sword master that is having to fight with a sword that is inherently unbalanced. No matter how good the sword master if the sword is below par then the wielder is going to perform worse than you would expect.
At the end of the day I had no problems with the fight. All things being equal Ren would have beaten the crap out of Finn and Rey. However things were not equal and I feel there were enough obstacles shown in the movie to adequately explain how Rey was able to take Ren down
I think Abrams intentionally wanted us to feel like Han was going to die. Making the audience feel helpless in certain situations is a pretty good storytelling tool that doesn't get used too much, so once Han stepped out onto that thing you knew he was going to get it, but you can't do anything to stop it.
KaoticBlaze
Member
I'm so happy I went full blackout on anything regarding this movie. I literally went in not knowing a single leaked spoiler or who was on contract or anything. The only thing I knew beforehand was that Han, Leia, and Luke would be coming back. So watching everything unfold before my eyes was amazing. Sure the bridge scene was pretty obvious that Han would die, but there was still a very small part of me that kept thinking "no way, he might make it out of there. It's Han, he's got this." Then it happens and even though you saw it coming, it was still a "holy shit I cant believe that just actually happened" moment.
This was definitely the moment when I realized that he wasn't coming back alive.
excelsiorlef
Member
That was not the point of that conversation at all.
It was merely to discuss how easy it is for men to not care about representation because they never have to worry about not being represented in films like this
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I'm still not a fan of Sidious using a lightsaber but god damn does he have one of the nicest designs.
Why does it have a nipple on the end?
Everyone has their kinks, don't judge.
TPM had the coolest Jedi in the prequel trilogy.
Damn. Qui Gon had swag. Loved his character.
The Sith do not fear carnal pleasure.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I've heard of it and don't buy it for a second. There's a reason all their movies have the feel of being focus tested to death.
funkystudent
Member
Finally finished watching the prequels (backwards from 3 no less) and yeah... they are terrible.
3 is kind of OK because at least stuff happens and its never stuck in the mood like the other two but I think EP2 might be the worst. Its so slow and the the actors are saying nonsense. And somehow PM looks the best. Its not perfect but less virtual sets really help it. They really cripple the other 2 movies and make them look way older then they should. Episode 1 has real good art direction as well. What the hell happened? Its like they doubled down on everything terrible after that.
3 is kind of OK because at least stuff happens and its never stuck in the mood like the other two but I think EP2 might be the worst. Its so slow and the the actors are saying nonsense. And somehow PM looks the best. Its not perfect but less virtual sets really help it. They really cripple the other 2 movies and make them look way older then they should. Episode 1 has real good art direction as well. What the hell happened? Its like they doubled down on everything terrible after that.
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