Nothing about the interrogator scene suggests she has force powers. She resisted torture because she's strong and stubborn. Those are key traits of her character. Force powers for her were added in the later films as in ANH they had not thought about her being Luke's sister.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Nothing about the interrogator scene suggests she has force powers. She resisted torture because she's strong and stubborn. Those are key traits of her character. Force powers for her were added in the later films as in ANH they had not thought about her being Luke's sister.
CGI yoga is terrible.. No reason to not use a puppet. He holds up well in ESB.
Inferno313
Banned
Yep. Isn't it true that even when they planted the "There is another" line in ESB, they were only thinking of adding a new character as "Luke's sister" in ROTJ, and only during the writing for that film did they realize that Leia could fit that role?
Inferno313
Banned
If they can make a Yoda Puppet that looks as good as the ESB one, do that. That's an incredible puppet. If they can only do one equivalent to TPM puppet Yoda? Go CGI, please.
Yes, Luke's sister Nellith was mentioned in the original Leigh Brackett draft of ESB (by the ghost of Anakin, no less, since he was not Vader at the time). She was supposed to be off on the other side of the galaxy and would show up in the next trilogy.
CGI Yoda has aged poorly. And as long as they use the ESB style puppet, it'll be great.
excelsiorlef
Member
So she was a Jedi but didn't do anything really Jedi's do. Looking up a giant summary I cam find nothing that really focuses anything on her being a Jedi oh other than her apparently having Jedi/Force enhanced powers of diplomacy and interpersonal skills...
(mat)
Member
I'd love a hybrid puppet/CGI Yoda. Use the puppet to get some of those awkward puppet movements that Yoda is sort of known for, and just CGI the minor details, like lip movements.
Man, I wonder how weird that would look...
Was thinking a hybrid could produce interesting results too. Would love to see some examples..
Would love to see Ewan come back, guy is amazing.
haha, incredible
excelsiorlef
Member
Ok I was wrong she got trained 35 years after ANH.l but not by Luke... cool.
She was a master of battle meditation and gets in lightsaber duels all the time. I think the EU suffers from the writers not all being on the same page with one another, so Leia's role shifts around all the time, but it was certainly a large part of her character.
Luke was a full time Jedi, Leia was someone who already had firmly established a career path and interests in politics. There's nothing wrong with her juggling them.
excelsiorlef
Member
No doubt but she still doesn't live up to being Daughter of Anakin imo.
Like I said first reference I found was her being actually fullt trained is 35 years after the events of ANH in a book from 2005.
It's why it's no surprise they didn't do much with her Jedi wise in TFA.
I admit to being wrong that it didn't happen at all though.
I don't disagree about her needing to be more powerful. She should, demonstrably, have the same potential "power level" as Luke, although since he's the one who dedicates his life to the Force and she still doesn't in the new canon I don't think she needs to actually reach the same equivalence. Thankfully the new canon has made it very obvious that she has moments of intense Force sensitivity (her seeing a vision of Padme, her feeling the presence of Darth Maul) and I think the book The Princess, the Scoundrel, and the Farm Boy makes it pretty clear that she's definitely "Anakin's daughter" at least in temperament since she draws on her hatred to shoot at the Stormtroopers. Also the Star Wars comics (particularly Vader Down) make it obvious that she's willing to sacrifice people for the greater good. They're doing a good job so far of making her a blend of Padme's political nature and Anakin's do-whatever-it-takes nature. But I do hope for her to become a full-on Knight with a lightsaber.
The way she worded it in TFA, though, I don't think she's ever going to dedicate herself to that path. Otherwise she wouldn't have "sent away" Kylo to Luke, she'd just be there with him. But I think since Lucasfilm is much more aware of representation issues these days, they won't pass up the opportunity.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Yep
...If we are going to say she is a force user because she resisted torture, then we might as well say Poe is a force user, as well.
isn't he the best pilot in the galaxy, right?...
Force user confirmed.
She will if she is
Rey's long lost mother
Gipsy Danger
Member
Yep
...If we are going to say she is a force user because she resisted torture, then we might as well say Poe is a force user, as well.
isn't he the best pilot in the galaxy, right?...
Force user confirmed.
She will if she isRey's long lost mother
He didn't resist it though. Kylo found out the map was with BB8 from him.
Although I do agree with your point on Leia, just pointing this out.
Good movie. A bit basic and perhaps a safe story, but good old Star Wars fun. The followup movies should continue the trend.
I'm not fond of the villain though. I was hoping he got killed off so we didn't have to see him again.
Darth Vader was a cool badass.
Kylo Ren is an immature asshole.
I'm not fond of the villain though. I was hoping he got killed off so we didn't have to see him again.
Darth Vader was a cool badass.
Kylo Ren is an immature asshole.
excelsiorlef
Member
Frankly movie wise it's too late. There's not enough precedent in the universe to really associate Leia with highly trained Jedi to have pulled it off in TFA.
The failing was the reality that Lucas didnt plan that out in the OT so the reveal comes in ROTJ and he does nothing with it. Had he planned it out before he could have had a few awesome Force/Jedi moments with Leia in the OT.
I know it's originally from ROTJ, but think about it:
1. It doesn't make any sense to have that line in the trailer, unless the goal was to mislead the audience into thinking the movie is about Leia. While possible, it's highly unlikely because it wouldn't have made sense to present an old Leia as the hero. Besides, in that very same trailer, we don't see Leia. We see all the new heroes, including Rey. If Leia had a really significant part in the movie and was the point of the trailer, we would have seen her by then. For reference, said teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs
2. The original quote in ROTJ is "You have that power too. In time, you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family: my father has it, I have it, my sister has it... and... my sister has it. It's you, Leia." (here: https://youtu.be/MDYX_PgorRY?t=93), while in the TFA teaser, it's: "The Force is strong in my family: my father has it, I have it, my sister has it... You have that power too." This is almost the same, yet not quite. Let's see why:
- Unless my ears are failing me, the line was actually rerecorded by an older Mark Hamill/Luke for the teaser (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). This is an old Luke saying this to someone who can't be Leia. She's not dumb, she heard him the first time... 30 years ago!
- That cute little "and" in bold is a big sign. It exists in ROTJ because it signals the end of an enumeration. Luke gets his point across with that short, 3-item enumeration. He doesn't even really need to add "It's you, Leia." Removing it makes the enumeration feel incomplete in the teaser.
- Look at the order. In ROTJ, "You have that power too" comes first. In the TFA teaser, it's shifted around to become the conclusion of the enumeration as if Luke was saying: "My father, me, my sister, you (too)". It becomes the 4th item in the enumeration. True, the enumeration still feels incomplete without an "and", but that's what the "too" is here for instead.
I could still be wrong - in fact, I'd be happy to be wrong, and I still think it could be a red herring -, but that teaser has always bothered me because of that. Even knowing the original line, the way it's used in the teaser is engineered to make us think "Ooooh, I wonder who that "you" is!"
I've asked before about whether that spear thing that Rey carries around on her back, whether she actually uses it in the movie, and someone had mentioned that she used it to fight off some baddies early in the movie. However what is it though? Is it just a metal pipe? Or is there more to it than that?
As far as we know it's just a plain old staff made from spare parts. She uses it like a staff to hit people real hard like. Takes out a couple thugs who attack her, then knocks Finn flat on his ass with it.
LegendofLex
Member
The goal is to lead the audience to think the movie is about a new generation of Skywalker descendants; a new "you" to "have that power" - the one that Luke's father had, that he had, and that his sister had - "too."
Because that's what the movie is about.
We already have one confirmed Skywalker descendant: Ben. Rey is heavily speculated to be one as well, either Luke's daughter or a secret second child of Leia's. Either way, she inherits the Force, the same power that is strong in the Skywalker family; she's the one to whom Luke will "pass on what you have learned."
That's exactly what we're supposed to take away from the trailer.
(I know you seem to have arrived at this, too; just clarifying for any other readers.)
The Lamonster
Member
Same. I was surprised that he survived. I got excited that we'd have another one-off Darth Maul-esque villain and not someone we'd have to tolerate for an entire trilogy.
Oh well.
that was one of the biggest mistakes of the prequel
too many villains with zero time to develop them
LegendofLex
Member
I see this as a consequence of having to position Palpatine as operating in secret and only acting openly through other (expendable) operatives.
But, yeah, even if it makes sense for the universe and the story, it didn't do these films any favors. I've commented elsewhere that these films largely struggled because no one cared about the villains, including the story itself.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Before Kylo, "mind grapes" Poe, Poe has resisted every torture they have given him (you can see the same droid used on Leia behind Kylo). Much like Leia did.
I was poking fun at the thought that Leia was a force user because she resisted torture. And I was just adding fuel to the imaginary fire by saying Poe was a force user because he is a great pilot.
Rey resisting Kylo makes her an exceptional force user. She has the force, but that didn't automatically prevent him from entering her mind, just like it didn't stop her from entering his. You can have the force and still get your mind read.
And Darth Vader and Maul a hard acts to follow.
Something different was needed, and him being the son of Leia and Han automatically adds depth to his character more so than random design sith number 421.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Yep, Kylo's a better villain than Maul, Dooku and Grievous combined.
A point can be made that he is even more compelling/better written than Vader.
Kylo Ren is a better villain than A New Hope era Darth Vader, at least.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I prefer him to Vader in ANH but Vader's obviously still the iconic villain of the saga. Kylo's still got some way to beat him for me. I can't wait to see what Rian Johnson does with him in VIII though.
Yeah, exactly! From the second I first heard the teaser that's always how I've interpreted it.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
What if it's Luke speaking to Ben before he starts studying with him? That it's a line from a flashback from Ep.8 ?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Vader came into his own as well as stole the show in his ESB appearance.
Not only did he become that much more interesting with his "I am Your Father" reveal, but he was so damn fun to watch with his cunning, efficient decision making and his hiring/promoting/firing process.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Absolutely. Rey's Theme, Match of the Resistance and Jedi Steps are all fantastic. I'm a big fan of the soundtrack anyway.
The Lamonster
Member
I was hoping this new trilogy would show more force users that weren't just Skywalkers.
In the prequels hundreds of people were confirmed force users. Why would that ratio ever change? Are force users in "present-day" SW universe just sitting on their abilities and not ever using them?
In the prequels hundreds of people were confirmed force users. Why would that ratio ever change? Are force users in "present-day" SW universe just sitting on their abilities and not ever using them?
In the context of the OT, the Empire hunted down and killed many Force users that didn't bow down to the Emperor.
In the Sequel Trilogy there's probably a huge number of Force users, but without a big organization like the Jedi Order actively looking for them, they may be confined to their own planets, without training.
excelsiorlef
Member
Darth Maul is an easy act to follow. Maul wasn't even a character really. It's amazing watching the Plinkett review of TPM in that 90 min or so he barely mentions Darth Maul because frankly he was completely unimportant to anything
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Well in the OT Leia used Force powers without knowing it was the Force. There are surely hundreds of people in the galaxy who use Force powers without knowing it and who think they're just "lucky".
Leia doesn't want to be a Jedi. Why would she when you consider what happened to her father, her brother and her son?
LegendofLex
Member
Before the "I am your father" moment, it'd actually be really easy to dismiss both as just heavies whose primary impact came from the fact that they look intimidating.
Definitely. Big fan of the booming trumpets when Ren is revealed in the opening scene of the movie, really a great defining SW moment, for me anyway.
Sith and Jedi are largely extinct, and the force became dormant. The film presents the force as a perceived myth that's actually real, much like in the original SW. Only few are able to KNOWINGLY use it/understand its power.
excelsiorlef
Member
Genocide will do that. Not that you have to be descendants of force users but it helps...
excelsiorlef
Member
Ren's leitmotif is amazing. I hope it gets expanded into a full theme eventually as he grows
The Lamonster
Member
Makes sense now. Thanks guys
The soundtrack really grew on me with repeat viewings. I think it's the most subtle of the Star Wars scores, but definitely up there with the OT in quality. I was kind of down on it initially.
Same, classic SW right there. It really bothers me when people say the SW is forgettable or disappointing. If you give it a chance you'd be surprised to see there's a lot to offer.
No problem.
Upon the 5th viewing, its true colors REALLY shine.
Yeah I said this
Really, the teaser trailer is either:
1) referring to something we still don't understand yet
2) a complete misdirect
I don't see any other way to interpret it, it's extremely obvious to me that Leia is not the "subject" of the trailer.
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