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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

L

lawnchair

Banned
WadiumArcadium said:
Leia should have flown an X-Wing. She kicked some ass in a Naboo Starfighter.

NBF.png
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princess leia in a naboo starfighter huh, that happened huh


why do i keep coming into this thread
mjcry1.png
 
A

Angel_DvA

Member
They destroy 2 death star without him, I'm sure they could do it a third time.

I don't remember the shield being down is the reason why Star killer was blown up, if I remember correctly, it's more from Han Solo/Chewie bombs and Poe flying skill that put an end of it. ( they were losing in the sky )

I'm fair play, I give you that, It won't change much to me anyway. It would have been cooler if Finn was a resistant that infiltrated the Stormy and saved Poe, would have make much more sense than an indoctrinate person that get a conscience from his first operation but whatever.
 
H

heliosRAzi

Banned
Angel_DvA said:
1) Finn was useless at a Storm Trooper standpoint.
2) His escaped is not a keypoint, it's just a plot device to save Poe.
3) Got ass kicked by everyone ( Rey, BB-8, the big pig when he was drinking, Chewie, the beast in Solo space ship, Kylo Ren etc... )
4) He's a bad fighter.
5 ) He's using humour to hide his weakness.
6 ) Everything could have been done without him beside saving Poe/evacuating from Jakku even if Rey could probably have save herself.
7) He was saved by Rey X times...
8) He almost died at the end.

I know some people will disagree but I won't change my mind on him much, I like the character and I think he has the potential to be everything in the series but for now, he's useless and not really what I was waiting for at character standpoint.
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Sometimes, it's not about whether or not a character is useless. It's about whether or not they are believable. Finn is believable, his goals are relatable and his weaknesses sometimes hinders his goals. Even if he gets his ass kicked, he's still getting back up to help others.

I do want more from him. Right now, it seems like Abrams only wanted Finn to be a former-Stormtrooper because it's cool. Abrams wanted a character who was "bad" suddenly become good. Overall, I like Finn and Rey.
 
M

marrec

Banned
Angel_DvA said:
I'm fair play, I give you that, It won't change much to me anyway. It would have been cooler if Finn was a resistant that infiltrated the Stormy and saved Poe, would have make much more sense than an indoctrinate person that get a conscience from his first operation but whatever.
Click to expand...

Not to belabor a point that you seem to be exasperated with, but they do mention that re-education of Troopers is something that they do and going by their dialog they have to do it multiple times to some Troopers so having a dude get sweaty during his first operation seems plausible if not likely.
 
H

heidern

Junior Member
Angel_DvA said:
I don't remember the shield being down is the reason why Star killer was blown up, if I remember correctly, it's more from Han Solo/Chewie bombs and Poe flying skill that put an end of it. ( they were losing in the sky )
Click to expand...

Han/Chewie bombs are what brought the shield down and then Poe was able to take that final shot to actually destroy Starkiller.
 
QuantumZebra

QuantumZebra

Member
excelsiorlef said:
And if he hadn't been there to risk his life Rey wouldn't have had time to recover from the force push into the tree.
Click to expand...

I think the "Finn is useless" line of thinking is just as absurd as "Rey is too strong" (funny how people view the male as too weak and the female as too strong... but I digress), but that right there kills the whole useless argument.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
Angel_DvA said:
They destroy 2 death star without him, I'm sure they could do it a third time.

I don't remember the shield being down is the reason why Star killer was blown up, if I remember correctly, it's more from Han Solo/Chewie bombs and Poe flying skill that put an end of it. ( they were losing in the sky )

I'm fair play, I give you that, It won't change much to me anyway. It would have been cooler if Finn was a resistant that infiltrated the Stormy and saved Poe, would have make much more sense than an indoctrinate person that get a conscience from his first operation but whatever.
Click to expand...

Well Poe couldn't fly through the shield to deliver a killing shot so the shield had to be down for it to happen.
 
M

marrec

Banned
heidern said:
Han/Chewie bombs are what brought the shield down and then Poe was able to take that final shot to actually destroy Starkiller.
Click to expand...

Nooo...

Finn brought down the Shield via a hold-up which allowed Poe and crew to get in close enough to start bombing the containment device.

Han/Chewie blowed up part of it from the inside which allowed Poe to fly inside and blow it up good which destabilized Starkiller.

QuantumZebra said:
I think the "Finn is useless" line of thinking is just as absurd as "Rey is too strong" (funny how people view the male as too weak and the female as too strong... but I digress), but that right there kills the whole useless argument.
Click to expand...

Oh, I think it's absolutely a result of media training. In any other media Finn would be the kick ass character and Rey would likely be even more "useless" than Finn is.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
heidern said:
I was referring to post TPM adult Anakin with
Anyway, that's my last word on the matter. I wanted to ask whether having the one black character in OT be a traitor and then the black character in TFA be a traitor was a good idea or insensitive, but I don't think that's a good idea.
Click to expand...

And yet you asked it anyway. Also can you tell the difference between betraying your friends to the Nazis and betraying the Nazis?
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Angel_DvA said:
They destroy 2 death star without him, I'm sure they could do it a third time.

I don't remember the shield being down is the reason why Star killer was blown up, if I remember correctly, it's more from Han Solo/Chewie bombs and Poe flying skill that put an end of it. ( they were losing in the sky )

I'm fair play, I give you that, It won't change much to me anyway. It would have been cooler if Finn was a resistant that infiltrated the Stormy and saved Poe, would have make much more sense than an indoctrinate person that get a conscience from his first operation but whatever.
Click to expand...

How do you think Poe was able to launch an attack.... spoilers the shields were down.
 
QuantumZebra

QuantumZebra

Member
lawnchair said:
princess leia in a naboo starfighter huh, that happened huh


why do i keep coming into this thread
mjcry1.png
Click to expand...

it really is a graveyard of absurdity

either its awful stuff from the PT and EU being brought up, or incessant whining about Finn being useless or Rey being too strong

where can I go for a good discussion on who Snoke is, who Rey's parents are, how powerful is Kylo actually (and Rey for that matter), lore, etc.. ?
 
K

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
heliosRAzi said:
Loyalty is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. You obviously don't.
Click to expand...

Which reminds me: has that Luke quote from the first teaser been retconned or otherwise disavowed? Cause I can't see how it could be anything but a clear pointer to Rey being Luke's daughter...

Unless they're trolling us with fake quotes. After all, Luke doesn't say anything in the actual movie.
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
Kilrogg said:
Which reminds me: has that Luke quote from the first teaser been retconned or otherwise disavowed? Cause I can't see how it could be anything but a clear pointer to Rey being Luke's daughter...

Unless they're trolling us with fake quotes. After all, Luke doesn't say anything in the actual movie.
Click to expand...

It was just dialog lifted from Return of the Jedi.
 
H

heliosRAzi

Banned
Kilrogg said:
Which reminds me: has that Luke quote from the first teaser been retconned or otherwise disavowed? Cause I can't see how it could be anything but a clear pointer to Rey being Luke's daughter...

Unless they're trolling us with fake quotes. After all, Luke doesn't say anything in the actual movie.
Click to expand...

It's from ROTJ.
 
W

WadiumArcadium

Member
Kilrogg said:
Which reminds me: has that Luke quote from the first teaser been retconned or otherwise disavowed? Cause I can't see how it could be anything but a clear pointer to Rey being Luke's daughter...

Unless they're trolling us with fake quotes. After all, Luke doesn't say anything in the actual movie.
Click to expand...

Ben says hello. It could be a reference to him.

QuantumZebra said:
where can I go for a good discussion on who Snoke is, who Rey's parents are, how powerful is Kylo actually (and Rey for that matter), lore, etc.. ?
Click to expand...

Away.
 
S

spekkeh

Banned
SomTervo said:
... A mess of great discussion, opinion positing, and intelligent rhetoric?
Click to expand...
I love how casual TFA is about using women and minorities in all positions. It's really quite something special. (though I'm not sure it always gels with the theme, as I think stormtroopers used to be worker drones in a conservative fascist society, and something like Phasma's characterization might work against this; then again JJ hammed up the Nazi visual language to 12, so there's that.) But some of the thread reads like some teenager's first contact with Derrida and resulting obnoxious showboating. When people's opinion get discarded because of white male privilege, I well, get triggered and zone out too. I'd much rather read discussions on how somethings don't make scientific sense in what is clearly a fantasy film.

Edit: thread already moved away, please disregard.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
spekkeh said:
But some of the thread reads like some teenager's first contact with Derrida and resulting obnoxious showboating. When people's opinion get discarded because of white male privilege, I well, get triggered and zone out too. I'd much rather read discussions on how somethings don't make scientific sense in what is clearly a fantasy film.

Edit: thread already moved away, please disregard.
Click to expand...

That isn't what happened at all
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Imperfected said:
Ultimately kind of a disappointing line, since it comes right after Luke promises Leia that one day she's going to be as powerful as he is. That sure worked out.
Click to expand...

ugh, I forgot about that. Why does TFA choose to disrespect all of our OT heroes?

Next we'll find out that Wedge Antilles quit piloting after ROTJ. Lando died of a drug overdose. Wicket is in hibernation.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
Imperfected said:
Ultimately kind of a disappointing line, since it comes right after Luke promises Leia that one day she's going to be as powerful as he is. That sure worked out.
Click to expand...

on the other hand Rey seems to be making good on being the badass female jedi that we all envisioned when we found out that Leia was force sensitive
 
F

FlashbladeGAF

Member
Angel_DvA said:
1) Finn was useless at a Storm Trooper standpoint.
2) His escaped is not a keypoint, it's just a plot device to save Poe.
3) Got ass kicked by everyone ( Rey, BB-8, the big pig when he was drinking, Chewie, the beast in Solo space ship, Kylo Ren etc... )
4) He's a bad fighter.
5 ) He's using humour to hide his weakness.
6 ) Everything could have been done without him beside saving Poe/evacuating from Jakku even if Rey could probably have save herself.
7) He was saved by Rey X times...
8) He almost died at the end.

I know some people will disagree but I won't change my mind on him much, I like the character and I think he has the potential to be everything in the series but for now, he's useless and not really what I was waiting for at character standpoint.
Click to expand...

1. Useless for Storm Trooper yes, but critical to the Resistance (knew about SKbase Weakpoint)

2. Isn't that key? If he doesn't free Poe, Poe doesn't save them at Maz's and doesn't destroy SK Base. Finn's existence is to strengthen Rey, which is key.

3. Kylo Ren is the only one that kicked his ass. Everything else is just cheap hits/taps. BB8 shocking him, doesn't mean he got his ass kicked.

4. He's fighting ELITES (TR-8R and Kylo) so we don't know his true fighting level.

5. Don't we all.

6. Anything could happen if you write it that way. But SK Base destroys the Resistance if Finn doesn't give the Resistance inside info.

7. Finn saves Rey from being alone which later gives her the courage to face her fear of Kylo.

8. Han definitely died at the end.


It's called character arcs, and don't forget, he is a STORM TROOPER.
In the movie saga, no one has ever said, "that's a bad ass storm trooper" until TR-8R.

Stormtroopers as a whole are supposed to be seem low level

Finn in this movie slowly learned to find what kind of man he was away from the First Order. He saw what he was capable of doing and he even surprised himself.

In the next film, now he will be wondering what he can do to help, which will push him to go beyond his limits so he can be useful to Rey and the Resistance (hopefully).
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Inferno313 said:
You could argue that Leia is doing a lot more good for the Galaxy than Luke is in The Force Awakens.
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Well, yeah, but Luke was very explicitly talking about becoming a powerful Force user in that scene, not becoming an effective governor or general.

Apparently he just completely forgot to train her after that.
 
F

FlashbladeGAF

Member
Imperfected said:
Well, yeah, but Luke was very explicitly talking about becoming a powerful Force user in that scene, not becoming an effective governor or general.

Apparently he just completely forgot to train her after that.
Click to expand...

We don't know that, yet.

Just because she isn't on the front line doesn't mean she doesn't know how to use (or sense) the Force (ex. Han's death).

Picture her as a Jedi council member at this point. Sitting in a chair and ordering others to follow her command.

I would like to see at least one scene where she Force pulls a blaster
 
I

Imperfected

Member
FlashbladeGAF said:
We don't know that, yet.

Just because she isn't on the front line doesn't mean she doesn't know how to use (or sense) the Force (ex. Han's death).

Picture her as a Jedi council member at this point. Sitting in a chair and ordering others to follow her command.
Click to expand...

Eh, I don't really blame them for it or anything. I mean, it's a bit late in Fisher's autumn years for her to suddenly become an action star, and if they give her Force powers but hand-waive them as being purely "non-combative" people would rightfully complain about how needlessly sexist that seems. The best alternative is that we get a kind of goofy "Yoda" action scene with the potential to ruin the character.

Just a missed opportunity caused by the long, long downtime.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Carrie wants a lightsaber, so I say give her a lightsaber.

Carrie Fisher admits Princess Leia can come off as a dated damsel in distress at times in the original “Star Wars” trilogy.

Her character may have been a Jedi, but most of the heroics went to her Rebel cohorts, Luke Skywalker and Han Solo.

“I would have liked that lightsaber moment, very much yes,” Fisher tells the Daily News. “But there was no precedent (at the time).”
Click to expand...

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...kens-taps-girl-power-fisher-article-1.2454677
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Imperfected said:
Well, yeah, but Luke was very explicitly talking about becoming a powerful Force user in that scene, not becoming an effective governor or general.

Apparently he just completely forgot to train her after that.
Click to expand...


The Lamonster said:
ugh, I forgot about that. Why does TFA choose to disrespect all of our OT heroes?

Next we'll find out that Wedge Antilles quit piloting after ROTJ. Lando died of a drug overdose. Wicket is in hibernation.
Click to expand...

Nothing in new or old canon had her trained to be a Jedi and the books/comics have no excuse.
 
F

FlashbladeGAF

Member
Imperfected said:
Eh, I don't really blame them for it or anything. I mean, it's a bit late in Fisher's autumn years for her to suddenly become an action star, and if they give her Force powers but hand-waive them as being purely "non-combative" people would rightfully complain about how needlessly sexist that seems. The best alternative is that we get a kind of goofy "Yoda" action scene with the potential to ruin the character.

Just a missed opportunity caused by the long, long downtime.
Click to expand...

She can still have the non combative Force powers.

You can't call it sexist when the main female character of the series is doing EVERYTHING.

It just sucks for Carrie who would have had fun doing all that stuff.

Maybe she will get a deleted training scene with Rey when she rejoins the fight.
 
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