Like seriously, ESB Luke and ANH Luke were on two completely different levels.
In a different buildings in cities on opposite coasts.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Like seriously, ESB Luke and ANH Luke were on two completely different levels.
In a different buildings in cities on opposite coasts.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I loved Luke in ANH. He was just as endearing as in ESB.
Word for word this is exactly how I feel. Truly incredible performance.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
God I loved the saber fights at the end. And I loved how Ren was pounding at his wound.
prag16
Banned
I will say that she overused that toothy grimace face (e.g. firing blaster at stormtroopers for the first time, running toward ship with Finn, etc) but that's the only thing that bothered me even a little. She was fantastic.
HiredN00bs
Member
I saw it for a third time this weekend. There really is a ton of detail in the film and I notice and enjoy new things each time I see them.
Same, I just spent like 10 min looking at those gifs lol. I need to go see this again ASAP.
*Raises eyebrow*
Going back to something from the previous page, I can't really think of any bad delivery from Daisy at all. In fact, the only line in the entire movie that I can think of that stuck out as "bad" is Finn going "What's going on!?" when the Falcon starts malfunctioning before he can tell Rey that he's not a Resistance soldier and they rush offscreen to figure out the problem. It's just delivered awkwardly, like a line being read rather than a genuine reaction.
There were a couple lines in the film that I thought John delivered a little awkwardly, but I'm mostly putting that down to him having to use an American accent.
Daisy on the other hand was pretty much flawless
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Poe is even more flawless
He has the chiseled chin of a God
Just look at it
He has the chiseled chin of a God
Just look at it
BreezyLimbo
Banned
He's just as beautiful as his parents.
Those are pretty strong jawlines right there
JimiNutz
Banned
I didn't love it on first viewing but on second and third viewings I agree that it is pretty awesome.
I remember Rey's part of the duel not being as impressive though. Lots of wild swinging and stabbing from Rey. Hope she improves in Episode VIII.
I'm really damn pissed that theyHe's just as beautiful as his parents.
killed Shara off as backstory
Jest Chillin
Member
Yo.. is that Comic telling me her name is Shara and he's calling her "Bey" or that her name is "Shara Bey?"
Also the answer doesn't matter because any fictional middle or last name of that sounds like "Bae" is an awful, awful, awful creative decision.
Also the answer doesn't matter because any fictional middle or last name of that sounds like "Bae" is an awful, awful, awful creative decision.
Yeah, same.
I didn't really see why that was necessary at all. Just pointless fridging so that Kes can be even more sad that the New Republic isn't working out? The new canon is much more gender diverse but still has problems with the way it treats some of the women, like Nakari or even Ventress in DD, although I guess that one has to be laid at George's feet. Rae Sloane still stands tall though. As long as they don't kill her off in some stupid way. I'm expecting her to defect to the NR in the end.
Shattered Empire itself was still pretty fun though.
Her name is Shara Bey.
Jest Chillin
Member
I stand by the unquoted portion of my previous post. Awful, Awful, creative decision.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Honestly, until proven otherwise, I'm assuming the new extended universe will be the same blatant white boy power fantasy the old EU stuff was. It's so engrained into the more hardcore Star Wars fandom that I don't see it changing anytime soon
MilkyJoe
Member
He kind of looks like Beavis in that picture...
I wouldn't say that at all, actually, since the majority of the new canon's major characters - when not focusing on the classic heroes like Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke, Han etc. - are minorities or women (or aliens). The only big white male protagonist I can think of is Kanan or possibly Ezra, although the fandom seems to have sort of unofficially latched on to him being space-Middle-Eastern.
Servants of the Empire - Zare (black male) and Merei (white? female)
A New Dawn - Rae Sloane (black female)
Rogue One - Felicity Jones (white female) and pretty much the whole Rebel cast
Princess Leia - Evaan Verlaine (white female)
Heir to the Jedi - Nakari (dark skinned female, buuut.....)
Darth Vader - Aphra (Asian female, although I guess Vader functions as the "antihero" in this one)
Shattered Empire - Shara Bey and Kes ("space Mediterranean/Hispanic")
Aftermath - Norra Wexley (white female)
Lost Stars - Thane Kyrell (white male - aha! found one) and Ciena Ree (black female)
The Perfect Weapon (white female)
etc.
If anything, we need more non-white females. Or some trans people.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Huh. Consider me happily corrected then!
That said, I think I'll reserve judgment until we're at least a few years in. I'm still incredibly wary of Star Wars,
especially after they fucking fridged the Jedi Exile
Funny story, Star Wars EU was actually the thing that made young me aware of how poorly treated female characters in geek culture was. One day, I just decided to look up female jedi on wookiepedia, and was speechless at the sheer volume of characters who were stuffed in the fridge so that their boyfriends could angst.
So what are the theories on Kylo's seeing the ocean with an island when in Rey's mind?
It's a curious line. Clearly it's a reference to the Jedi temple Luke is hiding out in. It's subtly yet deliberately mentioned, but never referenced again over the movie. Some force connection with Luke seems the most likely explanation.
It's a curious line. Clearly it's a reference to the Jedi temple Luke is hiding out in. It's subtly yet deliberately mentioned, but never referenced again over the movie. Some force connection with Luke seems the most likely explanation.
I didn't get it when I read multiple people referring to the 'March of the Resistance' track as being similar to Indiana Jones music, but after a re-listen right now, I can hear it. The thing about it, though, is that it's the kind of music that would accompany Nazi scenes in Indy films. Maybe that's why I felt the theme seemed a little off in the film.
Monocle
Member
OK, so I saw this again and the music is actually great. I guess it didn't register before because I was so busy taking in everything else, and there's not a super bold standout like Duel of the Fates. Rey's theme is wonderful, especially the first time you hear it, where it kind of ripples up as she slides down the dune. The Resistance's theme is really good, the perfect accompaniment to the scene with the X-Wings gliding over the water. The track where Starkiller Base blows up the Republic is very nice too, with that pan around Kylo Ren, the horror of the onlookers, and the destruction of the planet/moons.
Other things I like more than I realized:
- Maz Kanata. I love her voice and personality so much. The CG was easier to overlook this time.
- Captain Phasma. I know she didn't actually do anything, but man does she have a great presence. I am all about that voice and costume. Just so cool. She really needs to return with a meatier role in Episode 8.
- Rey's progression. I mean, I liked her a lot before, but all the Mary Sue talk had me paying careful attention to how she carried herself. This latest viewing erased any doubts I might have had about the believability of her journey from backwater scavenger to capable pilot and force user. Daisy Ridley totally sells it. TFA's pacing might be swift but when she's not clearly relying on past experience and her scrappy knack for improvisation, her struggle was totally apparent.
Anyone who has complaints about how Rey got the upper hand in her duel with Kylo needs to watch that scene at least a couple more times and actually study how it plays out. Kylo's confident swordwork and precise flourishes clearly indicate his training, in contrast to Rey's desperate parries and clumsy lunges. Only at the end, when she literally closes her eyes and communes with the force, does the tide turn in her favor, and even then her attacks are wild and undisciplined, and Kylo is exhausted and unhinged.
P.S. Leia looks great. Her final outfit is so damn elegant.
Other things I like more than I realized:
- Maz Kanata. I love her voice and personality so much. The CG was easier to overlook this time.
- Captain Phasma. I know she didn't actually do anything, but man does she have a great presence. I am all about that voice and costume. Just so cool. She really needs to return with a meatier role in Episode 8.
- Rey's progression. I mean, I liked her a lot before, but all the Mary Sue talk had me paying careful attention to how she carried herself. This latest viewing erased any doubts I might have had about the believability of her journey from backwater scavenger to capable pilot and force user. Daisy Ridley totally sells it. TFA's pacing might be swift but when she's not clearly relying on past experience and her scrappy knack for improvisation, her struggle was totally apparent.
Anyone who has complaints about how Rey got the upper hand in her duel with Kylo needs to watch that scene at least a couple more times and actually study how it plays out. Kylo's confident swordwork and precise flourishes clearly indicate his training, in contrast to Rey's desperate parries and clumsy lunges. Only at the end, when she literally closes her eyes and communes with the force, does the tide turn in her favor, and even then her attacks are wild and undisciplined, and Kylo is exhausted and unhinged.
P.S. Leia looks great. Her final outfit is so damn elegant.
I had a similar experience with the score myself. The first time around, although I liked it, it didn't really stand out. I think I was just completely taken with the film and everything seemed to happen so fast there was no time to "notice" anything. But on my second viewing the score really made sense and I've loved it since. It's such a rich score.
Looks like a young Bruce Campbell.
Poe's law ITT
QuantumZebra
Member
Agreed. They knocked her casting out of the park. So glad we didn't end up with ScarJo or someone in the role.
QuantumZebra
Member
Just had a friend send me this:
It's been a long, LONG time, but it's great to see Star Wars as a "lived-in" universe again. Things are old, dirty, dingy, but practical once more, and that's seen and felt in everything from the world to the costume designs.
Even if you took out all the bad acting, writing, and story of the prequels, visually it was just all... sterile.
With the Force Awakens, everything looks like it has history. X-wings with exhaust burns on the sides, aliens with clothes with frayed sleeves and holes in their shirts, stations and hangers that look like they've seen a lot of use, army bases in environments being taken over by nature or worn down by the elements...
On a visual level, that satisfies in a way Star Wars hasn't in nearly 30 years...
It's been a long, LONG time, but it's great to see Star Wars as a "lived-in" universe again. Things are old, dirty, dingy, but practical once more, and that's seen and felt in everything from the world to the costume designs.
Even if you took out all the bad acting, writing, and story of the prequels, visually it was just all... sterile.
Everything's too clean, too perfect.
With the Force Awakens, everything looks like it has history. X-wings with exhaust burns on the sides, aliens with clothes with frayed sleeves and holes in their shirts, stations and hangers that look like they've seen a lot of use, army bases in environments being taken over by nature or worn down by the elements...
On a visual level, that satisfies in a way Star Wars hasn't in nearly 30 years...
I saw it again yesterday and there were some small things about her performance that occasionally felt off to me. There weren't any significantly terrible moments but a few lines came across stilted or off putting. She did OK, imo.
It seems I'm in the minority that felt this movie wasn't as good the second time. There were additonal details that I noticed which were nice but overall, the seams were a lot more apparent. For all the talk about showing and not telling that people throw around, there's a ton of exposition in this movie that wasn't very well fleshed out. I still don't quite understand Kylo Ren's turn to the dark side or why Luke and Han ran like cowards when shit started to hit the fan. I'm sure they'll be expanded upon in Ep VIII but that doesn't give me much comfort now when those actions are so pertinent to this movie. Stuff like R2D2 waking up only when the plot demanded, Han being conveniently right next to Jakku to pick up the falcon, Finn not being instantly killed by the Rathtar, Rey being an ace pilot when she's never left Jakku before, Poe's return being handwaved away, and a plethora of other bits and pieces kept taking me out of an otherwise fun of the movie.
I still liked it quite a bit but it's definitely below any of the OT for me.
Sorcerer
Member
Star Wars seems to work better when unknowns are cast. I guess its better for the viewer if the actor has no previous work or very little work that the viewer can identify with. The actor is a blank slate in that sense and it makes it easier for the viewer to accept and identify with them.
The prequel trilogy was a star studded affair compared to the OT and it didn't really work out that well.
I had similar thoughts after my second viewing, particularly about Maz and the score. "Where's my boyfriend? I like that wookie." Such a great character intro.
The fights really do require the audience to pay attention to more than choreography; the character conflicts and personalities are on display, and through that, story. A lot of the comments about the fight - how can a stormtooper fight Ren? Why is Rey losing until she wins? - remind me of some of the discussion about Fury Road this summer. That film is primarily visual story telling, and if you're only paying attention to the action, all you'll see is action. But there's a lot of story unfolding through the visuals and action. The answers to why things play out the way they do in TFA are all there, in the characters, in the fight design, in the framing of the action, in the faces of Rey and Kylo as they face each other.
For all the action, TFA is the easily most nuanced of the Star Wars films, in script, score and performance.
sidenote on rey: i like how her lightsaber fight with Kylo, she was using it like the staff that she had, rather than swordfighting style. Watch her during the fight, she uses short two hand thrusts in pikeman stance.
TheMagician
Member
She might have a saber like Maul in the next movies.
I thought that might be the case; she uses it similar to when she fights with her staff against the two guys on Jakku. Neato.
If she does, I'd love to see it build from her staff in TFA.
Yeah, I definitely noticed that in the first viewing of the movie, and was talking to my wife about it on the way home. She fights with the lightsaber in a similar way to her staff. It was a nice touch.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
Major Williams
Member
No, it's not. That's literally nonsense.
There's a lot of story telling happening during the fights. An unusual amount, I'd say. In the prequels - which I know you haven't seen - characters just swing at each other with great style for a while, until it's time to move the story along and then someone does something stupid.
Going to quote plop's posts from the *thread that shall not be named*.
Finn swings at Kylo three times; Kylo parries easily. Then then swings back at Finn three times, ending with a downward smash that puts Finn flat on his back. He walks away pounding the bowcaster wound in his side.
Finn gets up and whiffs completely, while Kylo twirls his saber casually. Then Kylo pins Finn to the tree and tortures him with the hilt of his saber. Finn pushes him back, gets a lucky whack on Kylo's shoulder - at which point he realizes he should be done fucking around.
Kylo is putting Finn in his place. The moment he gets tagged, Finn is face down breathing snow with a saber ripped up his back ~5 seconds later.
Fantastic analysis - There really is 'toying' in this scene, and some subtleties I hadn't noticed before. Thanks for this.
There is a lot of excellent visual storytelling going on throughout the entire movie. I could write a huge post on all of the big and small visual storytelling moments that are in pretty much every frame of the movie. Watching it the third time on Saturday (this time 3D, which was ok), I picked up on even more visual bits. My wife leaned over to me during the Han/Kylo scene and was like, "Now the blue light on the side of Kylo's face is gone," right before he stabs Han. The biggest bit of non-verbal and visual storytelling is the audio design. So much subtlety is weaved into how sound is used in various scenes, not just the score, but ambience, especially when the force is being used in various ways. The sound team just killed it.
I'm dying for the Blu Ray release so I can go through it bit by bit and dismantle it. I already have it pre-ordered.
I'm dying for the Blu Ray release so I can go through it bit by bit and dismantle it. I already have it pre-ordered.
Saw it last Saturday with the fiancée. Loved it! Me and her notice a few things.
1: Finn's the comic relief. Cmon! DROID PLEASE!
2: What does Poe do aside from being the Maverick of the Star Wars Universe? Aside from gazing lovingly at Finn (I notice it and the fiancée didn't.).
3: The Raid Redemption cast is THE BIGGEST waste of opportunity in a mainstream movie. I was expecting to see Mad Dog get at Chewie, not speak two lines and bounce!
4: Kylo Ren while sinister was weak even when compared to Anakin at the same age. Young Anakin would have blocked that shot.
5: Han's murder was the spoiler I saw on Twitter over a month ago. Still stings.
6: Rey: "Why are you holding my hand?!" Favorite line!
7: When Finn was taunting a captured Captain Phasma, the fiancée mentioned that Finn sounded like a free slave.
8: BB-8 got some smark. He flipped Finn off. I also love his interactions with R2.
9: Cockblock 3PO. Nuff said.
10: Aside from shooting a few times I noticed Chewie didn't do much. I do know Peter Mayhew was extremely limited in his abilities and the majority of the movie it was a younger suit double running around. I sense a transistion period. Though I do like the part when he didn't give a fuck after Han died.
11: I wonder who were the voices in Rey's head as she got near the lightsaber.
12: Speaking of lightsaber, how was the old one recovered (That's the same lightsaber that Luke lost in Empire when Vader sliced his hand off.)? And does Luke still have his lightsaber from ROTJ and Vader's saber?
I also heard Rey could be related to Kenobi.
1: Finn's the comic relief. Cmon! DROID PLEASE!
2: What does Poe do aside from being the Maverick of the Star Wars Universe? Aside from gazing lovingly at Finn (I notice it and the fiancée didn't.).
3: The Raid Redemption cast is THE BIGGEST waste of opportunity in a mainstream movie. I was expecting to see Mad Dog get at Chewie, not speak two lines and bounce!
4: Kylo Ren while sinister was weak even when compared to Anakin at the same age. Young Anakin would have blocked that shot.
5: Han's murder was the spoiler I saw on Twitter over a month ago. Still stings.
6: Rey: "Why are you holding my hand?!" Favorite line!
7: When Finn was taunting a captured Captain Phasma, the fiancée mentioned that Finn sounded like a free slave.
8: BB-8 got some smark. He flipped Finn off. I also love his interactions with R2.
9: Cockblock 3PO. Nuff said.
10: Aside from shooting a few times I noticed Chewie didn't do much. I do know Peter Mayhew was extremely limited in his abilities and the majority of the movie it was a younger suit double running around. I sense a transistion period. Though I do like the part when he didn't give a fuck after Han died.
11: I wonder who were the voices in Rey's head as she got near the lightsaber.
12: Speaking of lightsaber, how was the old one recovered (That's the same lightsaber that Luke lost in Empire when Vader sliced his hand off.)? And does Luke still have his lightsaber from ROTJ and Vader's saber?
I also heard Rey could be related to Kenobi.
She heard Luke ("Nooo!!!"), Yoda ("...an energy field that surrounds us and binds us..."), and Obi-Wan ("Rey, these are your first steps.") The first part of Obi-Wan's line is taken from a snippet of Alec Guinness and the second part is a new line by Ewan McGregor.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Bought this, I hope the GF doesn't yell at me.
Its a canvas, and it will go in the living room.
The fact that they snipped "Rey" from Alec Guinness saying "afraid" in an old line... so awesome. I can only imagine how jazzed they all were when they stumbled upon that and made it work.
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