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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

Veelk

Banned
He was returning Finn's thumbs up. :p

I wondered what he was doing when he first did it, and I figured him flicking him off was more in character since he didn't entirely trust Finn so he's like "Dammit, you got me into this, I'm not your buddy". Seemed more comedic to me at the time too.
 

JLynn

Member
I wondered what he was doing when he first did it, and I figured him flicking him off was more in character since he didn't entirely trust Finn so he's like "Dammit, you got me into this, I'm not your buddy". Seemed more comedic to me at the time too.

And that's how me and my fiancée figured. BB-8 was real slow to trust Finn.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I wondered what he was doing when he first did it, and I figured him flicking him off was more in character since he didn't entirely trust Finn so he's like "Dammit, you got me into this, I'm not your buddy". Seemed more comedic to me at the time too.

Finn was kind of sealing the deal with a thumbs up when BB-8 returns it. I think it's hilarious, but the image of it being a middle finger is also pretty amazing (I never even thought of that interpretation before, given they put both 'thumbs' up in the same shot to associate them.)

"Droid, please!"

*extends blowtorch*

Tonally totally out of sync with the character and scene, etc, though.
 

watershed

Banned
Lol, why would Disney stick a middle finger FU in their movie? I haven't seen anyone else mistake BB-8's thumbs up for an enthusiastic FU.
 
The fact that they snipped "Rey" from Alec Guinness saying "afraid" in an old line... so awesome. I can only imagine how jazzed they all were when they stumbled upon that and made it work.

Its genious sound mixing. It reminds me of Secret of Nimh, where they didnt get permission to use "Frisby" as the lead name, because it sounded too much like the toy, so they had to remix John Carradines lines(he plays the wise Owl) since he couldnt record new lines for the new name, using snippets of words he used that had B and interlacing it with Frisby(her new name being Brisby).
 
Lol, why would Disney stick a middle finger FU in their movie? I haven't seen anyone else mistake BB-8's thumbs up for an enthusiastic FU.

Why not? Disney put this in their movie:

wPwVH98.gif
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
I mean, I saw it this Saturday and managed to go that long without getting the Han spoiler spoiled. That's a fuckin' miracle.
 

-griffy-

Banned
There is a lot of excellent visual storytelling going on throughout the entire movie. I could write a huge post on all of the big and small visual storytelling moments that are in pretty much every frame of the movie. Watching it the third time on Saturday (this time 3D, which was ok), I picked up on even more visual bits. My wife leaned over to me during the Han/Kylo scene and was like, "Now the blue light on the side of Kylo's face is gone," right before he stabs Han. The biggest bit of non-verbal and visual storytelling is the audio design. So much subtlety is weaved into how sound is used in various scenes, not just the score, but ambience, especially when the force is being used in various ways. The sound team just killed it.

I'm dying for the Blu Ray release so I can go through it bit by bit and dismantle it. I already have it pre-ordered.

Yup, really all of the action scenes specifically do a tremendous job of communicating and building and informing the relationships between the leads. As Ghaleon mentioned up there, it really does recall Fury Road, and specifically how the relationship and trust was established between Furiosa and Max with almost no words spoken between them.

Poe and Finn become friends in their first action scene, because they have to work together to escape. It was impossible for only one of them to get out of their, they needed to rely on each other to get as far as they did. When Poe flies them into position, keeping at the optimal distance from the ship, and Finn fires and destroys the turrets, they both are super excited because they both got through it together. They are bonding through action.

The same is very much true of Finn and Rey's first action scene. First when the TIEs attack the salvage yard, and Finn keeps trying to grab Rey's hand to lead her to safety, yet Rey is adamant that she doesn't need this help before ultimately taking charge and leading Finn to the quad jumper and their hope of escape. In this scene, Rey is learning that Finn will try to do the right thing by helping her, and Finn is learning that Rey is capable and skilled.

Then they get into the Falcon, and we again have two characters who need to rely on each other in order to escape. Rey's flying alone doesn't save them, and neither does Finn's shooting. Rey needs to maneuver the ship until Finn has an opening to shoot. The last big move in the sequence only works because both of them are there. Rey puts the ship into the controlled freefall, to put the broken and immobile turret into position so Finn can take out the last TIE. They both get through it because they had each other's backs, thereby building their relationship.

The battle on Takodana/Maz's castle, we start to see the relationship between Rey and Kylo build, how Kylo is showy and trying to overpower her, physically and literally paralyzing Rey. The battle also represents the first steps Finn takes in actually consciously doing the right thing rather than running away, and when Kylo takes Ren we in fact see Finn run forward rather than away.

The mind control fight between Rey and Kylo is a pretty overt and obvious, and wildly effective, scene at further establishing the relationship between Kylo and Rey, and Kylo's insecurity.

It all culminates in the final lightsaber battle in the woods, where Kylo again tries to show off and dominate, immediately taking Rey out, and Finn completes his arc by taking up the lightsaber and stepping forward into a fight he surely will lose. Kylo again tries to project his own superiority but cracks are starting to show in the facade, represented by this being the first action scene he is not wearing the mask and the wound bleeding at his side. He easily overpowers Finn while essentially showing off, but not before Finn actually manages a hit on him. He isn't in as much control as he would like to be in.

Then he tries to Force grab the lightsaber, and it flies by him and essentially picks Rey over Kylo, again reinforcing his sense of insecurity. The rest of the sequence is pretty self explanatory as Kylo pushes Rey to the edge, tries to turn Rey, which causes her to close her eyes and let the Force in, propelling her to victory where it has failed Kylo.
 

watershed

Banned
This is JJ Abrams we're talkin about. I wouldn't put anything past him.

Why not? Disney put this in their movie:
Because this is a Star Wars movie. I can understand someone mistaking it for a middle finger visually kind of...but it's a thumbs up. It's a light joke moment to show how cute BB-8 is. That's really all there is to it. I don't think we'll ever hear FU or see a middle finger in a mainline Star Wars film. It's not fitting in the tone of Star Wars and has no place in the movies.
 

JLynn

Member
I mean, I saw it this Saturday and managed to go that long without getting the Han spoiler spoiled. That's a fuckin' miracle.

I REALLY commend you. I saw that on Twitter and literally prayed it wasn't true, I was that bummed and my fiancée was like "If you blurt it out you're sleeping on the couch without a blanket."

Then I moped around like Sadness from Inside Out.
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
There's no way that's nothing more than a thumbs up. Finn's thumb, and BB-8's thumb are in the same shot to connect the two as being a thumbs up. BB-8, up until that point, hasn't actually been shown to be that cheeky. He's actually pretty different from R2 on a personality spectrum. BB-8 is oddly supportive compared to R2's fiercely independent nature. I'd buy R2 flipping someone off over BB-8. BB-8 is a dutiful, loyal droid. He wasn't sure about Finn, but he also didn't have much reason to flip him off. At that point, Finn had displayed more heroism/positive qualities, than evil qualities worthy of a middle finger. Besides, the damn torch thing looks like a thumb. Another little thing I love about that thumbs up gif, is the way BB-8's antenna wobbles while he movies. It's such a tiny detail that I think could be overlooked by a computer animator if they were animating him.

Anyway, on my third viewing this weekend, I got to thinking about Obi-Wan's voice after Rey touched the lightsaber. Initially, I thought it was maybe some past related thing, but now I'm beginning to think that perhaps it is actually Yoda and Obi-Wan speaking to Rey within that moment, not a past recollection of her. I think that was Yoda and Obi-Wan reaching out to Rey in the Force. I think this sets up, more than anything, that Obi-Wan and Yoda will appear in some fashion going forward, and if Obi-Wan appears as a Force vision, will be played by Ewan McGreggor. I say this because of the way Obi-Wan's voice transitions from Alec McGuinesses' "Rey," to McGreggor's "these are your first steps..." I just can't see it as a past recollection of Kenobi, but Rey accessing the Force through the saber, and the spirit of Obi-Wan responding then and there, calling out to her. The comment of it being her first steps is very true in the movie. That was the key moment where her attunement to the Force manifested itself in an undeniable way.

I think Rey may find herself being guided by Luke and Obi-Wan in the next film.
 

OraleeWey

Member
The way he extended his little fiery lighter suggests to me it's a middle finger. See a thumb usually extends upward towards your body. A middle finger usually extends upwards away from your body. That little fiery device BB-8 gave to Finn is definitely a middle finger.

giphy.gif


vs a thumbs up

Context and evidence highly suggests it is a middle finger.
 

Ovid

Member
I hope Finn is going to be paralyzed.

The way he extended his little fiery lighter suggests to me it's a middle finger. See a thumb usually extends upward towards your body. A middle finger usually extends upwards away from your body. That little fiery device BB-8 gave to Finn is definitely a middle finger.

giphy.gif



vs a thumbs up


Context and evidence highly suggests it is a middle finger.
Ugh, is this still up for debate?

BB-8 was in agreement of Finn's lie. He gave him a thumbs up.
 
The way he extended his little fiery lighter suggests to me it's a middle finger. See a thumb usually extends upward towards your body. A middle finger usually extends upwards away from your body. That little fiery device BB-8 gave to Finn is definitely a middle finger.

giphy.gif



vs a thumbs up


Context and evidence highly suggests it is a middle finger.

Wtf no. Context is that he immediately trusts Finn and gives them the location of the base.

If it was a middle finger BB-8 would have told Rey Finn was a Stormtrooper and not keep his secret
 

OraleeWey

Member
Wtf no. Context is that he immediately trusts Finn and gives them the location of the base.

If it was a middle finger BB-8 would have told Rey Finn was a Stormtrooper and not keep his secret
I remember Finn forcing him to give up the location in order to save Rey or something. Idk, I have to watch it again later but I still think it's a middle finger. It's not out of this world that directors do these kids of things only adults would understand. Stuff like that is all over Nickelodeon.
 
The way he extended his little fiery lighter suggests to me it's a middle finger. See a thumb usually extends upward towards your body. A middle finger usually extends upwards away from your body. That little fiery device BB-8 gave to Finn is definitely a middle finger.

giphy.gif



vs a thumbs up


Context and evidence highly suggests it is a middle finger.

I'm sure the Resistance engineer designing BB-8 made sure to have his lighter go straight up and not at an angle so that the droid could flip people off and not have it be confused with a thumbs up. /s
 
The way he extended his little fiery lighter suggests to me it's a middle finger. See a thumb usually extends upward towards your body. A middle finger usually extends upwards away from your body. That little fiery device BB-8 gave to Finn is definitely a middle finger.

giphy.gif



vs a thumbs up


Context and evidence highly suggests it is a middle finger.

Wow, trolling or actually believe this?
 
I don't think it's a middle finger. Something that's definitely more likely is that R2-D2 called 3PO a little bitch at the end of the film. 3PO was so shocked :lol
 

-griffy-

Banned
The way he extended his little fiery lighter suggests to me it's a middle finger. See a thumb usually extends upward towards your body. A middle finger usually extends upwards away from your body. That little fiery device BB-8 gave to Finn is definitely a middle finger.

giphy.gif



vs a thumbs up


Context and evidence highly suggests it is a middle finger.
No man, BB-8 is doing it Commodus style, only he goes thumbs up:
thumbs_down_gladiator.gif


We have the effects guys stating it is a thumbs up already, but also the context means only a thumbs up makes sense really. Finn is pleading with BB-8 to tell Rey the location of the base, since Finn doesn't actually know. Finn and BB-8 are having a side conversation that Rey doesn't know about, since Finn doesn't want Rey to know he isn't part of the Resistance. BB-8 doesn't know what to do, but ultimately decides to trust Finn and cover for him by telling Rey where the base is himself. He returns Finn's thumbs up with his own, saying essentially "I got your back dude."
 
I'm not trolling but I think it can be interpreted whatever way you want it to be...

Ignoring the physical aspect of it, why do you think it makes sense that BB-8 would be flipping off Finn? Finn tried to save Poe, they escaped the bombing together, BB-8 just kept his secret, and if he had flipped him off I imagine the characters would be fighting after that.
 

Veelk

Banned
Personally, I don't see why it's a big deal. I interpret it as a middle finger because BB-8's uncertainty manifests as frustration, but it being a thumbs up is also within character. It can be interpreted both ways to mean the same thing. One is "Okay, I trust you buddy" and the other is "God, you better not fuck me over here." Either way, BB-8 is extending a measure of trust and that will be rewarded, solidifying the bond into true friendship. It doesn't need to be explicitly one or the other because it works both ways.
 
Yup, really all of the action scenes specifically do a tremendous job of communicating and building and informing the relationships between the leads. As Ghaleon mentioned up there, it really does recall Fury Road, and specifically how the relationship and trust was established between Furiosa and Max with almost no words spoken between them.

Poe and Finn become friends in their first action scene, because they have to work together to escape. It was impossible for only one of them to get out of their, they needed to rely on each other to get as far as they did. When Poe flies them into position, keeping at the optimal distance from the ship, and Finn fires and destroys the turrets, they both are super excited because they both got through it together. They are bonding through action.

The same is very much true of Finn and Rey's first action scene. First when the TIEs attack the salvage yard, and Finn keeps trying to grab Rey's hand to lead her to safety, yet Rey is adamant that she doesn't need this help before ultimately taking charge and leading Finn to the quad jumper and their hope of escape. In this scene, Rey is learning that Finn will try to do the right thing by helping her, and Finn is learning that Rey is capable and skilled.

Then they get into the Falcon, and we again have two characters who need to rely on each other in order to escape. Rey's flying alone doesn't save them, and neither does Finn's shooting. Rey needs to maneuver the ship until Finn has an opening to shoot. The last big move in the sequence only works because both of them are there. Rey puts the ship into the controlled freefall, to put the broken and immobile turret into position so Finn can take out the last TIE. They both get through it because they had each other's backs, thereby building their relationship.

The battle on Takodana/Maz's castle, we start to see the relationship between Rey and Kylo build, how Kylo is showy and trying to overpower her, physically and literally paralyzing Rey. The battle also represents the first steps Finn takes in actually consciously doing the right thing rather than running away, and when Kylo takes Ren we in fact see Finn run forward rather than away.

The mind control fight between Rey and Kylo is a pretty overt and obvious, and wildly effective, scene at further establishing the relationship between Kylo and Rey, and Kylo's insecurity.

It all culminates in the final lightsaber battle in the woods, where Kylo again tries to show off and dominate, immediately taking Rey out, and Finn completes his arc by taking up the lightsaber and stepping forward into a fight he surely will lose. Kylo again tries to project his own superiority but cracks are starting to show in the facade, represented by this being the first action scene he is not wearing the mask and the wound bleeding at his side. He easily overpowers Finn while essentially showing off, but not before Finn actually manages a hit on him. He isn't in as much control as he would like to be in.

Then he tries to Force grab the lightsaber, and it flies by him and essentially picks Rey over Kylo, again reinforcing his sense of insecurity. The rest of the sequence is pretty self explanatory as Kylo pushes Rey to the edge, tries to turn Rey, which causes her to close her eyes and let the Force in, propelling her to victory where it has failed Kylo.


Rey's vision is basically a living nightmare, and at the center of that is Kylo Ren.

Her coming face to face with a living nightmare in reality scared the shit out of her. Which is why she was so afraid of him when she first laid eyes on him after fleeing from Maz's

I'm not trolling but I think it can be interpreted whatever way you want it to be...

If he was flipping Finn off, he wouldn't have agreed to Finn's plan by telling Rey the location of the Resistance base
 

OraleeWey

Member
If he was flipping Finn off, he wouldn't have agreed to Finn's plan by telling Rey the location of the Resistance base

The way I remember is Finn used some type of leverage to have BB8 agree to his plan. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it, hence the middle finger. I've only watched it once.
 
I mean, I saw it this Saturday and managed to go that long without getting the Han spoiler spoiled. That's a fuckin' miracle.

Amazing.

Recently I was standing near a group of teens in a crowded public place and one of them kept repeatedly yelling out "HAN SOLO DIES" to another member of the group. For like, 7 minutes. Again and again.

Why? Who knows. Kids are stupid.

Context and evidence highly suggests it is a middle finger.

I think you just see what you want to see. Nothing highly suggests that and it's been stated by members of production to be a thumbs up. Sorry bud you are simply mistaken.
 

prag16

Banned
That little fiery device BB-8 gave to Finn is definitely a middle finger.

There's no room for interpretation here whatsoever. You're either (poorly) trolling, or just seeing what you want to see for some insane reason. Even if you ignorantly disregard the official comments confirming it's a thumbs up, just based on the film content alone, there's absolutely ZERO chance it's a middle finger. How anyone could possibly seriously think so is far beyond my capacity.

Personally, I don't see why it's a big deal. I interpret it as a middle finger because BB-8's uncertainty manifests as frustration, but it being a thumbs up is also within character. It can be interpreted both ways to mean the same thing. One is "Okay, I trust you buddy" and the other is "God, you better not fuck me over here." Either way, BB-8 is extending a measure of trust and that will be rewarded, solidifying the bond into true friendship. It doesn't need to be explicitly one or the other because it works both ways.

There will not be robot birds flipped in a mainline Star Wars film, ever.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Amazing.

Recently I was standing near a group of teens in a crowded public place and one of them kept repeatedly yelling out "HAN SOLO DIES" to another member of the group. For like, 7 minutes. Again and again.

Why? Who knows. Kids are stupid.

I would have dunked his ass in a filthy ass toilet for that. Motherfucker's gonna learn today.
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
The way I remember is Finn used some type of leverage to have BB8 agree to his plan. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it, hence the middle finger. I've only watched it once.

This is what Finn says to BB-8 (I've seen the film three times, and the third time was this past Saturday, so the movie is super fresh in my mind):

Finn: I don't speak that! Alright, between us, I'm not with the Resistance, okay?

(BB-8 Rolls backwards, away from Finn, obviously nervous)

Finn: I'm just trying to get away from the First Order, but you tell us where the base is, and I promise I'll get you there first. Deal? Droid, please!

Rey pops up and asks for something, they have the funny, "No, the one I'm pointing to," moment while she asks where the base is at, and Finn says: "Go on, droid, tell her," then BB-8 looks between Finn and Rey, torn.

Finn (mouths): Please...

BB-8 tells Rey the system.

Rey: The Illenium System!

Finn: The Illenium system, that's the one! Get us there as fast as you can! (he says this while simultaneously giving the thumbs up to BB-8)

BB-8 returns the thumbs up to Finn.

Nothing about that exchange, or BB-8's character thus far, indicates that it's a hostile exchange. BB-8 is putting his trust in Finn, because up until that point, Finn has been a good guy (saving Poe, helping to protect the Falcon while Rey piloted). It really shouldn't even be a debate. It's a clear as day thumbs up. Interpret it as a middle finger if you want, but, honestly, that's the wrong interpretation.
 
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