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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
bryanee
Member
I say this as some one who has never enjoyed a single Star Wars film and I've seen them all but I really, really like this one. There wasn't a single second where I wasn't into it.
Surprised the hell out of me. I do have one complaint and that was Phasma, I was expecting more from her.
Surprised the hell out of me. I do have one complaint and that was Phasma, I was expecting more from her.
Loved the film but didn't like the implementation of Snoke or Ren. Who the hell even is Snoke and why does he seem even more powerful than the Emperor? How did the First Order get so powerful? And Ren came across as a big pussy tbh and I feel he wasn't very well developed. I think that's why when it's revealed he's Han's son it comes across more as a "Huh?" than a "ZOMGOMFG" cause we literally know nothing about this guy. I feel like the casting for him was off (looks like Snape) and that they missed an opportunity to present him in an appealing way. They should have had him try to seduce Rey or perhaps mislead her in some other fashion. Maybe "Ben" meets her, gains her trust, but subsequently the big twist is that "Ben" is Ren and suddenly Rey has a tough decision to make.
And rather than tell Ren's backstory so briefly, why not show it? I was expecting a flashback or something.
Just my two cents.
And rather than tell Ren's backstory so briefly, why not show it? I was expecting a flashback or something.
Just my two cents.
LegendofLex
Member
I think the bold is what you're supposed to think about Starkiller Base.
In ANH, the Death Star basically was the antagonist of the film. The final conflict isn't really against Vader (Luke doesn't "beat" Vader, Han swoops in at just the right moment) - it's against the Death Star.
Rather than trying to achieve that structure all over again, in TFA, Starkiller Base is a representation of the state of the antagonists of the film - the First Order is still trying to be the Empire in the age of a New Republic (complete with planet-destructing might), and Kylo Ren is trying to put out his inner light so he can become more like Vader.
That's not the best comparison, true, but I get what you mean.
OTOH, think about it this way, there is this incredible weapon that takes care of your problem one planet at the time (or one system at the time now) and you are a bad guy, wouldn't it be your top priority to make it as fast as you can, if it gets destroyed?
I really can't fathom what problem is, I don't know how to react to your reaction to my innocent joke. I probably shouldn't
For whatever it's worth, I LOVED that they didn't present Ren's lineage as a twist. We've done that.
Jest Chillin
Member
None of that follows the slightest logical sense. If the Droid and Luke were the most important issue, it would've seen more focus from The First Order than simply two commanders.
Again, you're too blindly focusing on the angle of the movie rather than the motivations and ultimate goals of the characters in the movie. It's fine to do that (because that's what the movie wants) when you're focusing on what's happening in the movie but when you're trying to use the narrow focus of the movie to claim that a major character's only motivation also happens to be the narrow focus of the movie... then you're clearly missing the larger scope.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can see that. I definitely got the message that Kylo was a pathetic wannabe of Vader.
Was there a message that TFO was a pathetic wannabe of the Empire?
I'm fine with everything except the secret-sun-sucking-hyper-light-speed-laser-shooting-undefendable-interstellar-transgalactic-insta-multiple-habitable-planets-in-the-100-mile-corridor-destroying-beam-of-omnipotence+1
And then they went and said
"...oh yeah, and you thought the death star was bad?"
*record scratch*
baby, you ain't seen nothing yet
And then they went and said
"...oh yeah, and you thought the death star was bad?"
*record scratch*
baby, you ain't seen nothing yet
Pretty much. Especially how the dark side is emulating the nazis in these movies. The whole quest for bigger and better weapons makes a lot of sense. It's a show of power more than actual power.
But on the other hand I can see how there is a bit of Death Star fatigue.
LegendofLex
Member
The General Hux speech is the best firsthand source for what TFO thinks about the state of affairs in the galaxy.
What I get from this: this New Republic is a sham; long live the Empire!
Both Hux and Kylo were wannabes in the end, competing for the leading position, but none of them actually ready for it.
I don't think that was the climax, more like just one stop along the way.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'd have appreciated a telling line that, from TFO's point of view, the Empire was a golden age.
Would have spoken volumes, admitting that it wasn't a golden age anymore, and they were desperately trying to get back to it.
He's not exactly the only Star Wars actor to come to hate the Star Wars phenomenon. He joins a long list of regretful actors including Alec Guiness and Jake Lloyd.
EdReedFan20
Member
Well to be fair, Star Destroyers are named that way because they are naval destroyers in space, not because they destroy stars.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
To be fair, Kylo was probably their Ace with no losses, until Fin showed up to screw their entire plans up.
WadiumArcadium
Member
In Jedi he felt Han had no real impact on the story. He had a point, but I'm glad he decided to do TFA. His death had more impact than it would have had then.
LegendofLex
Member
I think it's already pretty heavily implied by TFO thinking this new Republic has "acquiesced to disorder" and patterning themselves directly after the Empire in pretty much every discernible way. I don't think we need another line of exposition to establish this.
I'm having deja vu moment there, I could swear there was post(s) exactly like this before. He didn't want other actor to take over ever, he isn't exactly young and all people die?
Yep, pretty much.
Alec Guiness hated it from the beginning, though, only acting polite in most interviews. And Jake Lloyd came to hate it due to all the angry manchildren harassing him and claiming for his blood, because the kid "ruined they childhoods".
WadiumArcadium
Member
Yeah, I agree. It doesn't really need to be said.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Gentleman Jack
Member
Is c-3po's inclusion in the film anything more than a nuisance? He was a useful messenger in New Hope, comic relief in Empire and Jedi and a useless prat in the prequels.
What does he do here besides have a red arm (NEW TOY KIDS GO BUY IT) and exclaim obvious shit, something the film otherwise refrained from doing until he shows up?
Easily the most obnoxious part of the film besides Kylo's Anakin Skywalker impressions. Someone should gif younglings onto the screens he destroys with his lightsaber when he learns of Rey's escape.
Sorry if I'm repeating past grievances. I otherwise enjoyed the film :/
What does he do here besides have a red arm (NEW TOY KIDS GO BUY IT) and exclaim obvious shit, something the film otherwise refrained from doing until he shows up?
Easily the most obnoxious part of the film besides Kylo's Anakin Skywalker impressions. Someone should gif younglings onto the screens he destroys with his lightsaber when he learns of Rey's escape.
Sorry if I'm repeating past grievances. I otherwise enjoyed the film :/
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's not the answer to the question being asked at all.
He didn't really want Han to die in Empire, so that parts wrong anyway. He DID want Han to die in Jedi, primarily because he thought it was the best call for the character, and for the movie proper. He wasn't necessarily wrong, but he feels that the death he wanted then wouldn't have been anywhere near as good as the death he got now, which impacts the story in a far greater way.
Whether Han's dying was part of his agreement as to whether he joined on or not isn't known, actually. Many assume that's the case (I myself also figured it had at least something to do with his negotiations), but I don't know that it's been stated definitively one way or the other yet.
Even if they'd said "I dunno. You live to the next flick" the payday they gave his ass probably would have changed his mind.
No, if he'd hated it, he wouldn't have taken the job. He thought it was lighthearted, lightweight, disposable kids film bullshit, but he didn't hate it. He came to hate the weight placed upon it, and the means by which that weight pigeonholed who he was as an actor, but he didn't "hate Star Wars" from the beginning.
One of the most relayed stories about Guinness' grumpiness features him telling a kid to promise him he won't go see the movie anymore. Not because he thought the movie was shit, but becuase the kid had seen it like, 100 times, and Guinness was like "Get some fucking perspective, kid. Thats about 200 hours you could have spent doing anything else."
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
R2-D2 and C-3P0 have been in every one of the mainline films and I expect that to continue.
That's funny because I'm kinda down on TFA and I loved 3P0! I thought he was genuinely funny in this.
And? Is this forum a question and answer session?
LegendofLex
Member
Given how little the film leans on that kind of storytelling, I'm hoping they meant for us to realize how annoying and unnecessary C-3PO is so they can sideline him even harder for the next one.
I think besides TPM, Jar Jar also ruined C-3PO, because the resemblance in behavior is way too obvious.
Hmmm... Maybe Kylo Ren should have been played by Jake Lloyd?
I think Ren should have been played by Cumberbatch, that is all.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think that's you.
He was written as a slick car salesman, and his "oh dear" slapstickery was a creation of Anthony Daniels, not Lucas.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Are you being serious right now?
(Should I not expect an answer to this because of the nebulous definition of "forum"?)
Just to cover bases in the possibility you really don't know, and would like an honest answer: When you quote someone's question, and respond directly to it, the assumption is that you're attempting to address the question being asked. You didn't do that, AND you misrepresented the answer you DID give.
Spinach is full of iron.
Jest Chillin
Member
Perhaps, though again, if Snoke is as scared as what Excelsiorlef is saying.. so utterly terrified of Luke and what Luke could do that he would destroy an entire system in hopes of simply hindering Leia from finding him...
It would still make no sense to only send Kylo and Hux. If absolute fear of Luke and a new Jedi Order are what is driving his decisions... there is no logic that explains why he wouldn't swing the entire weight of his force on a mission so utterly critical.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I honestly don't understand how this answer relates to my post.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This seems worth our time......
Dunno why you initiated it then, outside of a mislaid aspiration to appear clever.
Oh, it doesn't have to! Forums aren't Q&A sessions.
Jest Chillin
Member
Holy shit. So Guinness is to Star Wars what Eccleston is to New Who!
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You said C3P0 reminds you of Jar Jar. I took that to mean they were both derived from the same brand of Lucas humour... but they factually aren't.
Just saw it again for the second time today, and just gonna ramble for a second: So much more makes sense about the story that didn't the first time. Especially reading about deleted scenes from the first act about introducing Leia earlier with the senate. I definitely understand why they were cut, it would have ruined the excellent pacing and made her reveal with Han later less emotional than it was, but they butchered the whole explanation of anything about the republic and the first order. Smart editing move, but you can only do so much when that problem was just baked into the script. Problem was that there were too many characters and stories they wanted to tell yet they also wanted to keep the story on Finn/Rey and they couldn't have it both ways without having some problems. Ultimately I'm happy with the way they chose to fix it because we can get taht information elsewhere, but making a fun film comes first. I just wish they realized the problem at the script level, or at least in time for reshoots so they could have moved that explanation to at the resistance headquarters somehow. And definitely before they actually blow up the senate. There's no stakes there because you barely have a clue what's being blown up and why it's important and how exactly it affects the resistance and the battle to come. In my mind, it should have ALL been cut. Save blowing up the senate for the second film. Then you don't really have to explain anything in this film and can keep it to just Finn and Rey's story.
That also could have gotten rid of the 'need' for the starkiller base which is the worst thing about the whole film. As nice of a set peice as it is for some of those scenes, literally nothing makes sense about it. How it was made, i guess in secret, how it could possibly work, how it didn't destroy a sun the first time, how the beams could be seen from the ground, the shot of seeing 3 or 4 planets in close proximity being blown up. None of these things make sense even in the star wars world. Would have loved to have had a sensible ending to this movie.
That also could have gotten rid of the 'need' for the starkiller base which is the worst thing about the whole film. As nice of a set peice as it is for some of those scenes, literally nothing makes sense about it. How it was made, i guess in secret, how it could possibly work, how it didn't destroy a sun the first time, how the beams could be seen from the ground, the shot of seeing 3 or 4 planets in close proximity being blown up. None of these things make sense even in the star wars world. Would have loved to have had a sensible ending to this movie.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's actually a pretty decent comparison. Except Guinness was actually more willing to return to Star Wars than Eccleston was/is to Who.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
but that doesn't mean anything, as his training isn't finished and now after he killed Han, it will be, but yeah he doesn't seem to be the main villain, only a second main villain.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
This has gotten weird.
Digital-Hero
Member
I want to know how he was able to seduce Ben and how other characters knew him. I just don't see a person with a giant gash in the skull making waves with people on a personal level.
Han: "Yeah, this guy looks darkside to me. Look at that face, shouldn't he be dead?"
LegendofLex
Member
This was a a huge question mark for me, too.
Gentleman Jack
Member
The film lays it on pretty thick that Rey and Ren are having parallel journeys in the ways of the force, going so far as to have a Super Duper Symbolic rift separate them at the end of their duel and having them both set up to receive training from very different masters at the conclusion of the film.
We'll see Ren be a presence throughout eps 8 and 9. Don't know what 'main villain' means though. I always figured Emperor Part Deux would be the final boss to slay.
I liked the new characters, specially Finn, a stormtrooper that defects is a pretty interesting angle to go for a new character but the movie brushes it over quickly and it's never mentioned again after the first 15-20 minutes and then brought on again during the last act to serve as a plot device "oh the new death star also has a weakness, I'm a lowly stormtrooper but everyone knows that. It's common knowledge!"
And it's weird how quickly everyone was trusting of him, instant-frienship like no one even doubted him? Where's his character arc?
And it's weird how quickly everyone was trusting of him, instant-frienship like no one even doubted him? Where's his character arc?
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