Mighty Chin
Banned
I'm at a loss right now. Each page brings worse and worse complaints.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
I'm at a loss right now. Each page brings worse and worse complaints.
Digital-Hero
Member
He met his mask? Don't see how that would help with him getting seduced by Snoke.
.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I like how you can even buy Ghost Shark 2 at the end.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It didn't. It just came in super-hot. Even with the 6 months extra that Abrams/Kennedy got from Iger, he still wanted (and probably could have used) the extra 6 months on top of that that he asked for (and didn't get).
But of course! I mean, aren't you curious now? To see how Ghost Shark 2 holds up against The Force Awakens?
excelsiorlef
Member
Impressive that the movie is as good as it is then.
Oh what could have been.
Oh well still my favorite.
The pace, while a little too fast, made the movie very catchy and enjoyable. Like a roller coaster.
And the character interactions and development is there in the movie. A lot of it. Partially through visual cues that a lot of people seem to have missed. I would say that the pace of the movie is so fast because there was a lot of character development, not a lot of plot.
But he said FN-2187 was the only name he had, if he was grabbed as a child he should have a proper name. Or was he brainwashed and only some of it stuck? Was he robbed of his native tongue?
Lifejumper
Member
Will rian johnson get as much time as jj? Or wil it be shorter?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah fair enough. I wish he did get the time to polish it. That's all it lacks.. a little polish.
I bet we'd get at least 4 OT spoiler threads out of Ghost Shark 2.
Chained Prometheus
Member
That would be an interesting turn of events, but I have a feeling that Snoke isn't entirely a pushover.
He's vulnerable, definitely, but I felt more intimidated by the guy than I ever did with Palpatine. Maybe he's weaker than Palpatine (I doubt it), but I think his cautionary approach regarding the possibility of Luke being found by the Resistance and the possibility of more Jedi returning was much more pragmatic than Palpatine's usual M.O. of arrogance.
Palpatine screwed himself over because of how confident he was; Snoke is more no non-sense. Is there a chance that the hiding enemy finds Skywalker? Destroy the entire rival political government and their military fleet so that they can't aid the enemy. Boom, done.
However I can potentially see where you're coming from in regards to the idea of Kylo killing Snoke in the next film. Snoke sounds pretty reluctant near the end of the film when he mentions that Kylo needs to finish his training. That could end up playing out in a very "Dr. Gero wakes up Androids 17 and 18" manner where his last ditch effort for self-preservation ends up biting him in the ass and does him in.
Come on, it was a joke. You said that how could Snoke with his ugly face seduced him and I said that he reminded Ben about his grandfather (the mask that he holds as some kind of a shrine).
My issues with his arc is that him defecting doesn't have much of an effect on him, he quickly gets over it and starts acting all funny. This guy saw a massacre first hand during the opening of the movie, feels guilt and remorse at seeing a stormtropper dying in front of him and then later has no problem with the resistence destroying the death star thing that's full of stormtroppers surely... he knew some of them right? but no remorse besides that one stormtropper that plastered his bloody hand over Finn helmet that only served to mark him from the rest so the audience had a visual cue telling them "this one is different"
BluePigGanon
Member
Ha!
I know some disagree but I'd be totally cool with Snoke=Plagueis. The prequels are hard to like but finding a way to pluck some aspects of them from the wreckage (Anakin Force ghosts, Plagueis, etc.), presented slickly in one of the new movies, would make them less disposable.
For the love of GOD, Disney better give these people enough time to make a proper movie.
Adam Driver is an interesting actor. He's a former marine and kinda has a "stupid" face but he is into super artsy thester shit.
I'm not saying he is as good (or has had the same chances to shine) but he reminds me of a young DeNiro in that he has this weird build and a exudes a lot if testosterone without being a meat head.
I liked his weird sad take. If anything Kylo works for me becuase he isn't just "dark side" he is a conflicted and angry head case. He kind of acts like a personification of what the emporer was telling Luke in Jedi.
It works better for me than just going, "He looks cool and walks around randomly killing his own minions becuase he is evil" as an intro.
I suspect he goes full Vegeta by the end.
Ragnorok64
Member
Yeah, I didn't really pick up on it until my 2nd viewing. It's entirely possible Poe or Rey said his name but I just can't remember when that happened.
dukeoflegs
Member
I just saw the movie and really liked it. Thought it was going to be all fan service with no meat.
There were some issues that stuck out but didn't kill the movie for me. Ren going from a badass to a turd quickly, big ass weapons being easily destroyed (I'll mark that as a star wars hallmark), and Bb8 changing sizes throughout the movie (this bugged me a lot for some reason).
There were some issues that stuck out but didn't kill the movie for me. Ren going from a badass to a turd quickly, big ass weapons being easily destroyed (I'll mark that as a star wars hallmark), and Bb8 changing sizes throughout the movie (this bugged me a lot for some reason).
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I wonder if the "first Jedi temple" will give them an opportunity to recontextualize the prequel era Jedi as being officially misguided somehow?
But I shouldn't hold my breath for things like that. I'll expect only a cool Dagobah 2.0 setting to train Rey in... anything else is gravy.
Grover Cleveland
Member
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Ive seen it 5 times because of various friends family, and I'm still not bored of it, even though I know and anticipate some of the slower parts to the story.
Those slow scenes end up being interesting because there are things between the lines that are obvious, "Han Solo, you're a dead man!" and not so obvious, like a look or an emotion from a character that is setup for the finale (Rey being afraid of Kylo from her vision which cripples her ability to face him with her usual confidence, until the final moment when she uses the Force", little things that I missed before that keep adding to the overall experience.
Gentleman Jack
Member
We got more of C3PO than actual Jedi in TFA.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Hmm that's true actually.
Welcome to Star Wars.
Agreed. It's why I hate this whole "ALL Stormtroopers are indoctrinated babies" crap they've inserted into this universe when the OT was so damn simple, they were Space Nazis. Now, after being raised from birth to be a trooper he becomes disillusioned during his first battle, grows a conscience, and then immediately starts stabbing his former comrades with a lightsaber. Wut?
Hey, how about instead of being a weird indoctrinated baby Finn just joined the First Order to pay off some debts, maybe got himself a nice job in sanitation away from any real action. You know something that reinforces his personality and ties to his arc of coward to hero?
AKA the prequels? Lots of sitting around and talking? I think what it shows, in part, is that fans love the Star Wars universe as much or more than they love the Star Wars films. So we want to know all the details, and we want them to show up in the film. People want the films to be more than just fun rides (which TFA very much is) they want complete worlds, histories, and cultures filmed on screen.
Thankfully that's what other media like comics, cartoons, novelizations, etc are for. Disney has to keep up with people's insatiable desire for all things Star Wars but JJ and company definitely made the right move by keeping those details out of the movie itself.
LegendofLex
Member
1) I only recall Poe acknowledging that his droid is a BB unit, not naming the droid. That'll be something to check out during the inevitable Viewing 4, though.
2) I'll take your word on Rey mentioning BB-8's name in Finn's presence, but I certainly don't remember it.
Yeah, I'm actually quite sure that's the reason. Movie had a schedule to keep.
Kinda makes the presence of certain scenes like the Rathtar one that took away what could have been time better spent developing new story threads sting a little, though.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
They burned my village to the ground while speaking "ENGLISH"
Thats what I meant. He mentions BB but not the number.
BluePigGanon
Member
I had the impression Ep.8 work started a while ago. Since shooting starts in a few weeks, presumably all the preproduction is done (or close to). ILM might even be working on all-CG scenes now.
In the end, Rian will have wrapped in a few months and ILM will have a year to finish it.
I am pretty much convinced that Rey is Luke's daughter. So the biggest question for me is who is the mother.
While it could turn out to be a complete no one without a history within the Star Wars universe, I can see 3 possibilities.
Most likely thing that Lucasfilms would choose is the secret daughter of Ben Kenobi. Its been rumored for quite some time now for such a character to appear, so wouldn't put it past them to introduce her as Rey's mother.
Next would work well from a marketing perspective. That's the mother being Felicity Jones's character from Rogue One. So she would be introduced in that film, so everyone who had seen the film knows the character. Those who didn't see Rogue One, would rush out to buy the film on DVD & Blu Ray, which would hit store shelves conveniently around the same time as VIII is on at cinema's. Also, it wouldn't be to much a jump believing Rey is her daughter considering Daisy Rider and Felicity's similar appearance.
My personal favourite is the most unlikely. Just this once (and Lucasfilms said it could happen) delve into the 'legends' universe and bring in one of its most loved characters. Mara Jade.
It would work well within the story, once the Emporer's hand who became a jedi. So what if she also fell to the Dark Side at the same time as ren and can now be found at Snoke's side? (maybe turned Ren herself). It would certainly explain Luke trying to hide his daughter from his own wife. What a twist that would be
Rey's a Jedi or at least will be
My favourite one is the opening line of the film. No one would ever come out and say it if it's true but it would be truly hilarious if it was something Kasdan or Abrams intended as a cheeky wink to the audience.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It is remarkable how little of a fuck Luke gives to his adoptive parents getting murdered or how little Leia cares about losing her entire planet.
Could have been a traumatic experience that broke them for the rest of their lives... but no, one brief angst-ridden scene and it's on with their day.
Would've absolutely loved something like this, you are right it's a much better origin for him than the tired and old indoctrinated since childhood.
Even going with the indoctrinated childhood angle, there should be some effects of that indoctrination on him still even after defecting. A PTSD of sorts. The character can be funny, and still have these flaws, but none where touched upon in the movie.
Finn's story is in the Before the Awakening book. He starts having doubts way before Jakku. Despite him being a very good cadet (among the best 1%) he starts having moral dilemmas in trainings, like should he go back to help his colleague in danger or should he go forward with his mission target. Captain Phasma manages to discipline him a bit, but then in the first real action they go to a mine in an asteroids field and Phasma just asks them to kill the miners who were on strike (while they thought they were brought in the room to negotiate). This makes him unable to focus on his training anymore and Phasma decides that the mission on Jakku was his last chance.
In parallel he was the only one who didn't have a nickname in his group (the other 3 where Slip, Nine and Zeroes) and a veteran he meets at some point tell him that that's a sign that he is an outlier, he's not really one of them, which actually comes in contradiction with his motivation for saving his colleague ("He's one of us").
BluePigGanon
Member
I think this isn't crazy. Mara Jade is probably one of the biggest fan favorites from the old EU and it would create big buzz amongst the fans to bring her back. They would probably reinvent her for the new story, but I can see it.
(Full disclosure: I despised the EU and sang yub yub when they swept it away, but I would be okay with that nod.)
Gentleman Jack
Member
Eehhhh, that's kind of like saying Luke was a Jedi in A New Hope.
Not that I want the film to get stuffed to the brim with Jedi, if the prequels taught us anything it's that having an army of Jedi kind of wrecks the mystique behind the order and their ancient ways, making the whole thing feel kind of goofy and useless because its the individual heroics that form the core of Star Wars's emotional attachment. I rather like that Luke has failed to revive it and that there's no more Jedi left in the universe than there were at the start of A New Hope.
Ragnorok64
Member
If they aren't even going to pull in the name "Jacen" from the EU for a character that is pretty much just Jacen, I doubt they'll actually use Mara Jade.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Then he takes it so hard when Obi-Wan dies/vanishes. He probably should have been confused and asking wtf just happened. I always just assume he was sulking extra so Leia would keep comforting him.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think it was borderline acceptable back in the day, because Star Wars was at the dawn of the commercial Hollywood fantasy blockbuster, and the rules for those had yet to be laid down.
Now we all know the language of pop-cinema, and it's okay to have your parents die, but you'd better have a scene of them dealing with it before you move onto the adventure.
Just a theory. I dunno. Maybe it was weird back then too.
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
Well... y'know, Lucas really did a poor job explaining why Owen would look after Luke. Has anyone here seen BelatedMedia what if the prequels were good? It makes a good case that Owen should've been more involved in the story.
BluePigGanon
Member
Apples and oranges. Calling Ban "Jacen" makes everyone talk about the storyline laid out in the books, people talking about what will/might happen in 8 and 9.
Mara Jade already dead when she's introduced avoids that issue.
LegendofLex
Member
Well, to be fair, he'd just found out the story his aunt and uncle fed him about his father was a lie and had wanted to escape them for multiple seasons by the time the movie starts, and Ben was a better link to his father than he'd ever had.
Did you forget how they wouldn't let him go to Toshi Station? He was glad.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
You mean enjoying his newly found freedom? He is basically a child set free. He did funny things but it was his child like innocence that he was able to retain (more janitor than soldier) not that he was a comedian.
Sure he may have known some Storm troopers, but I don't think it was, hey we are friends and more of we are a team.
If he remembered being taken from his village, it probably made him relive his own experience, like a suppressed memory. Remember he was having a panic attack. IT could have been having deja vu for all we know.
Now if you think he was freaking out over a village, imagine a whole planet. An army of stormtroopers who are prepared and happy to follow the First Order after destroying a solar system is a casualty of war if they die on a solar system killing weapon.
That's just how it is. They killed billions. And they were going to do it again.
Finn only killed in self defense and saving others.
This is true.
Robdraggoo
Member
What exactly does kylo want to finish that vader started. Doesnt he know that vader repented in the end?
Kylo Ren = Travis Bickle
His story shouldn't be hidden in a book, it should be in the movie. Him and Rey are the main characters of this new trilogy, why hide characters moments like that in a book?
If I need to read a book to get the character moment that should've been in the film, then the film most certainly failed. And how many times events mentioned in a movie tie-in book actually get a mention during the actual movie the book is tied into? they almost always universally ignored.
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