EroticSushi
Member
If Kylo had admired his grandmother instead of Vader.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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BluePigGanon
Member
He does; JJ said Kylo sees that as Vader having been seduced by the light side.
"Finishing what you started" = staying the course you were on before Luke messed with your head.
Ragnorok64
Member
Leia, I always figured was a case of her being a princess and having impeccable control over her composure and emotions. She never broke, even with the interrogation droid.
Luke... I dunno.
Star Wars always has that fast paced wild west feeling where one moment you're chilling in a cantina, the next your blasting a dude into charcoal, and the next moment you have no qualms about blasting the foot soldiers of the Empire. Whatever you do just keep charging forward.
Star Wars is not going to question the meaning of life or have one of characters side tracked into an existential crisis.
If Kylo had admired his grandmother instead of Vader.
I need this as a poster.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Destroying the Jedi. He knows Vader saved Luke but is desperate to avoid making a similar error. He talks to Snoke about fighting the temptation.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That is interesting that darksiders are just as seduced by the light side as lightsiders are seduced by the dark side.
Has that ever been on screen before... the innate appeal of the light? Seems like it's always been about how hard it is to be light, and the dark side is like an easy shortcut to power.
Word. Not to mention every single fighter pilot we ever see die.
The movies are just too light and family oriented to brood on the horrors of war.
Weirdly the only time the OT got close it was with an Ewok mourning his dead friend.
LegendofLex
Member
Finn's defining character moment in TFA is when he says, "Because it's the right thing to do."
There's another line from the trailers that's quite poignant as well: "I've got nothing to fight for."
FlashbladeGAF
Member
There are still 2 movies to tell. ESB delved deeper into everyone after the initial introduction of ANH
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
^ please tell me that's real.
I guess considering Hamill's scene in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, he has no issues with weed jokes.
I guess considering Hamill's scene in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, he has no issues with weed jokes.
Luke is a piece of human trash. People who raised him die "whateves", kids he's training die "vacation!".
Gentleman Jack
Member
If Kylo had admired his grandmother instead of Vader.
This is perfect, but I have friends who haven't yet seen the films so I'll have to hang on to this until later for sharing.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
In the deleted scene, Luke abandons the droid because it malfunctions.
That same droid ends up on the Jawas transport.
Because there is not enough time to put everything in the movie. Because this is still a movie about the light and dark side of the force and the democracy vs. dictatorship and these little stories about Finn are not important for this. Because the Star Wars universe always had these additional stories.
Even without the book, they call him a traitor and especially attack him. Plus they represent the very thing he was running from/was horrified about, The First Order. Even his own colleagues have no issue in shooting innocent civilians. Self defense and no real moral dilemma explains very well why he can shoot them.
yeah he confirms it on his twitter
LegalEagleMike
Member
Ya i know the rationalization we all accept but it still is a stretch.
Stallion Dan
Member
Well that is all crap as Phasma says he was fine until Jakku.
It's a rational that doesn't make sense. They raised him, they where the only parents he had.Dude seems cold.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Did she? I can't wait to see it again on Thursday, as I still have a couple of lines I missed.
Jest Chillin
Member
Take over the Senate from within? Then what is the purpose of Starkiller, exactly? Is it for Luke or is it for The Republic and their Armada? The First Order hadn't operated unhindered, they were harassed by The Resistance and operated in secret from The Republic.
A death squad is smaller than two commanders entire forces. Again, you purport that Snoke is willing to destroy an entire star system to stop Leia from finding Luke but suggest that sending a Death Squad is more than enough to suit the same purpose mere days before? That's like failing to swat a fly with a flyswatter so you burn down the entire house instead.
It makes no sense. None. Zero. Not even in the sense of escalation does that make sense. Destroying the Senate was always the plan, the only question is when that was originally planned to happen.
Adds to the Skywalker mythos? The same mythos they intentionally tarnish in this same movie by telling the audience that Luke's academy was slaughtered and he ran away and hid?
Luke is important. Never said he wasn't. What I've been arguing against was your assertion that Snoke is so deatlhy afraid of Luke and his forming a new Jedi Order (which would probably take a two to three decades to recreate in a really weak format) that everything he's doing is focused on the prevention of Luke and Leia meeting up again.
It's a reach and a gross overestimation of Luke's EVII reputation.
Gray Matter
Member
I enjoyed it more during my second viewing.
One thing I'm still not clear on, did kylo lose a limb when fighting Rey? When he was laying on the ground it looked like something came off of him.
One thing I'm still not clear on, did kylo lose a limb when fighting Rey? When he was laying on the ground it looked like something came off of him.
I believe she says "This was his first infraction" something like that.
I think the reason for R2D2 awakening is still hidden (that slow boot explanation is BS) because it might relevant for the plot of Episode VIII.
Technically he didn't have another infraction, just Phasma noticing he behaves strangely on the simulation ground.
Technically he didn't have another infraction, just Phasma noticing he behaves strangely on the simulation ground.
BoosterDuck
Banned
LegalEagleMike
Member
that was his lightsaber flying out of his hand. He still has both hands. Many people have thought the same as you on first view tho.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Because she doesn't want to be blamed for it.
Why thank you! I know you dislike Lucas and stuff, and perhaps you disagree with the article, so I appreciate it.
I loved Episode VII. My friends loved Episode VII. I thought I would miss Lucas, and I like the guy, but the movie is just plain fantastic.
Sure, it had too much pandering, too much fan service and it was basically a retread of Episode IV. But I would lie if I say I wasn't on the edge on my seat all the time.
Star Wars is in good hands. I can't wait to see what the new director can bring. I just REALLY hope the pandering stops.
Theodoricos
Member
I have to say I'm glad that some of the people here are not directing Star Wars. Judging by the way some people post, the Star Wars OT as well as this movie wouldn't have been fun, enjoyable hero's adventures, but depressing films about the horrors of war that nobody would want to watch.
Let's analyze the OT like some of us have been analyzing TFA.
How could Luke pull off the shot at the end of the Death Star trench run without the targeting computer? He'd be wracked with survivor's guilt and still thinking about the loss of his aunt and uncle as well as his mentor. He'd be dead.
Furthermore, how could Han arrive just in the nick of time to save him? How convenient that he shows up at the very last moment, right?
Also, how could Han make it through the asteroid field? The odds of successfully navigating it are 3,720 to 1. He and everyone else aboard the Falcon should be dead.
While on the subject, talk about the convenience of Luke crashlanding so close to Yoda's hut on Dagobah. The planet is teeming with life, right? Even with the help of the Force, he should've spent months searching for him.
How could Luke possibly defeat Vader? His father helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights, and Luke would still be traumatized by the revelation that Vader is his father. There's absolutely no way that he could ever beat him given his mental condition. He'd be dead.
Yeah, all of that sounds just like what I'd love to see in Star Wars.
Let's analyze the OT like some of us have been analyzing TFA.
How could Luke pull off the shot at the end of the Death Star trench run without the targeting computer? He'd be wracked with survivor's guilt and still thinking about the loss of his aunt and uncle as well as his mentor. He'd be dead.
Furthermore, how could Han arrive just in the nick of time to save him? How convenient that he shows up at the very last moment, right?
Also, how could Han make it through the asteroid field? The odds of successfully navigating it are 3,720 to 1. He and everyone else aboard the Falcon should be dead.
While on the subject, talk about the convenience of Luke crashlanding so close to Yoda's hut on Dagobah. The planet is teeming with life, right? Even with the help of the Force, he should've spent months searching for him.
How could Luke possibly defeat Vader? His father helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights, and Luke would still be traumatized by the revelation that Vader is his father. There's absolutely no way that he could ever beat him given his mental condition. He'd be dead.
Yeah, all of that sounds just like what I'd love to see in Star Wars.
What he said.
The whole indoctrinated since birth angle really bothers me because it also brings to mind so many other questions and also makes you question Finn's personality and reactions to things in the film. Like, assuming he was taken as a little baby from birth to be a Stormtrooper (thus not even being old enough to remember his own name) then First Order/Stormtrooper life should be the only thing he has ever known. So this makes you wonder what exactly is indoctrinated ST life like? And, why would he suddenly grow a conscience during one attack on a village? Why does he seem to not care about any of his fellow ST's?
Now, I want you to really think about this and remember the fact that he has known nothing except the life of a Stormtrooper. If we can assume that the First Order does a reasonable good job at indoctrination then these kids would have been fed a heavy does of propaganda, discipline, and training from the moment they could walk on two feet. And, since they would have seemingly zero contact with worlds outside of the First Order (if they ever even left a starship) they would have zero idea what any other lifestyle was like thus reinforcing Imperial dogma. Additionally, you would think he would have grown up with the same people his entire life, forming bonds with his fellow troopers who he's likely trained with since birth. First Order propaganda would likely paint any Resistance members as sub-human, terrorists who spread anarchy, and corruption and would have also likely introduced these children to a daily dosage of violence from a very early age.
What I'm getting at is that seeing villagers being executed and being asked to do that shouldn't be a traumatic experience for Finn if we logically infer what First Order indoctrination was like. He should have been exposed to and likely be forced to commit casual levels of violence from an early age, think of that scene in Kingsman where they have to raise and later shoot their own puppy, but yet somehow this event pushes him over the edge?
Now, I'm not saying an indoctrinated trooper could never be turned but it would be a more gradual experience, something like being captured or stranded on a rebel planet and slow experiencing their life. It would be the constant interaction with these "evil" resistance members that would turn an indoctrinated trooper as they slowly learn what they've been told their entire life was a lie. It should not be them being asked to do a task they've likely been instilled to do since birth right after these Resistance scum killed your supposed best friend.
(Assuming that ST that smeared blood on his agent was his friend do you think they'll ever explore the fact that Poe killed Finn's best friend?)
Lifejumper
Member
the visual dictionary explains that r2 is processing decades worth of information. Maybe thats why it taking so long?
I thought she took off his entire shin, but it was dark and he wears back so I dunno
LegendofLex
Member
She severed his lightsaber.
BluePigGanon
Member
I think he still has both hands, but yeah I saw something come off him too - not just his saber. But it might've just been a piece of his cloak or something.
I want the frame-by-frame that entire last duel.
JetBlackPanda
Member
BB8 asks R2 if he has an old empire map. It takes R2 until they come back to finally boot up. He indeed has the old map from when he hooked into the empires computers in 1977 Star Wars. That's all.
JJ confirmed it.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I hope so too.
You can get your answers by reading the book (I can comment more on that, but seeing how you rather chose to comment on someone who agrees with you than on some explanation I don't know if it is worth) or waiting for the spin-off movie about Stormtroopers. They were never very important to the Star Wars main movies, except for the clones. Wanting to have a lot more background story about them in TFA is somehow understandable, but it would not really fit the movie.
There are no real friends among them. The guy killed is assumingly Slip, described as the one who was always falling behind in training and about whom Phasma holds a whole speech on how if he can't keep up is better to die for the well being and safety of the group.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I thought it was one of the Jakku villagers that killed FN-2003.
Pretty sure it was Poe although I'm not 100% sure.
EDIT:
It was Poe.
If it's not explained in the movies then it doesn't count to me because I can only judge the movie based on what is shown in the movie not on outside information.
BluePigGanon
Member
By that very logic, whatever isn't shown in the movie isn't especially important.
Tomasoares
Member
I've just rewatched episode III, and I didn't think it was that bad of a movie. I and II are much worse (especially II, omg). I liked how Palpatine manipulated the republic and took over the power, still, everything else was quite meh lol
Anyway, one thing I liked in the movie and I think this new trilogy could explore better is about the force and its undiscovered aspects. I mean, not in the bullshit midichlorian thing, but I actually agree with Palpatine when he said that Jedi had a very dogmatic and limited perception of the force. The impression I got from the old Jedi Order was that they were like always scared of touching the dark side and leading people there, so they created all these restrictive and religious code (depriving the Jedi, like the celibacy thing). I think it's time that the Jedi (in this case, Luke and Rey lol) should start actually facing the dark side instead of resisting it, that they actually become altruistic instead of religious and deprived of many important aspects of life.
Also, watching episode III I got where the Darth Plagueis thing came from lol It has been so long I've watched this....
Anyway, one thing I liked in the movie and I think this new trilogy could explore better is about the force and its undiscovered aspects. I mean, not in the bullshit midichlorian thing, but I actually agree with Palpatine when he said that Jedi had a very dogmatic and limited perception of the force. The impression I got from the old Jedi Order was that they were like always scared of touching the dark side and leading people there, so they created all these restrictive and religious code (depriving the Jedi, like the celibacy thing). I think it's time that the Jedi (in this case, Luke and Rey lol) should start actually facing the dark side instead of resisting it, that they actually become altruistic instead of religious and deprived of many important aspects of life.
Also, watching episode III I got where the Darth Plagueis thing came from lol It has been so long I've watched this....
The movie doesn't describe the stormtroopers as being friends and shows Finn more reacting to fear and the killing of innocents. Which drives him further in the movie. Fear of TFO and not having a moral dilemma in regards to the stormtroopers as killers of innocents. Propaganda fails from time to time, it's not unheard of. That's why people still tried to run out of Eastern Europe even after 40 years of communism or people are still trying to run out of North Korea.
LegendofLex
Member
TBH, a good rule of franchise brand management is that you should never make the experience of a franchise that began its life in a specific medium rely on information from works created for other media.
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