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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Hm...my friend thinks Snoke is Palpatine.
Eeeh... I could go either way. I hadn't even entertained the idea before she said it though haha. And I can see a "it was me, Palpatine, all along!" as a big reveal, but it also would be super cheap haha.
I guess we don't know who he's supposed to be yet. Ehhhh.
Eeeh... I could go either way. I hadn't even entertained the idea before she said it though haha. And I can see a "it was me, Palpatine, all along!" as a big reveal, but it also would be super cheap haha.
I guess we don't know who he's supposed to be yet. Ehhhh.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Palpatine is dead and gone.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Surely they would have just used McDiarmid if it was.
The Librarian
Banned
Um IT WAS FILMED ON EARTH
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Love how much fun they're having.
I agree, but I could also see a "I lived and here I am" twist lol.
Yeh, that's what I said to her, she said "it's just to give the illusion that it's not him" haha.
I don't really think it's true, but I guess there's the (slim) possibility of it being a twist.
Adorable ;_;
SmackAttack
Member
I love this cast so much.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I love McDiarmid as much as the next guy, but I'd prefer if they kept the cast of the previous movies as far as possible from the next ones.
Gentleman Jack
Member
haha oscar isaac is doing the crazy frog dance
QuantumZebra
Member
I came away from it thinking it was rather obvious that R2 was activating due to sensing Rey's arrival.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Poor Daisy has no rhythm. Maybe she can borrow Oscar's.
I thought the line "that's not how the Force works" seemed ironic since we see a interpretation of the Force that doesn't fit with how I had viewed it in the past.
I prefer it when the Force is used almost as a powerful influence rather than a ultimate control over time and space. It makes it seem like physics and physical properties still are greater powers than can be controlled by one person, but even having a ability to manipulate those properties in subtle ways can give someone a huge advantage over regular people. In that way, I've always thought of the Force as similar to how the main characters are able to do extraordinary things in the Matrix, yet only Neo and Agent Smith are allowed to unlock God Mode.
For instance, we see Force users be able to jump super high, but we don't see them fly around. Sure, the latter may be possible if they can levitate objects, I suppose, but the idea of Force pushing and pulling things seems more like an influence than absolute control like holding a blaster shot. Flying would probably be impractical due to the amount of concentration it would require. The Force was something that was shown to require a great deal of concentration to be able to do something like levitate an object, and yet we see Kylo Ren not seem to have to put any attention or energy into holding the blaster shot in place throughout the scene.
The depiction of the Force felt "off" from how it had been often been shown on screen in the past, and that's before even getting into other questions some of those depictions raised for me in this film.
I prefer it when the Force is used almost as a powerful influence rather than a ultimate control over time and space. It makes it seem like physics and physical properties still are greater powers than can be controlled by one person, but even having a ability to manipulate those properties in subtle ways can give someone a huge advantage over regular people. In that way, I've always thought of the Force as similar to how the main characters are able to do extraordinary things in the Matrix, yet only Neo and Agent Smith are allowed to unlock God Mode.
For instance, we see Force users be able to jump super high, but we don't see them fly around. Sure, the latter may be possible if they can levitate objects, I suppose, but the idea of Force pushing and pulling things seems more like an influence than absolute control like holding a blaster shot. Flying would probably be impractical due to the amount of concentration it would require. The Force was something that was shown to require a great deal of concentration to be able to do something like levitate an object, and yet we see Kylo Ren not seem to have to put any attention or energy into holding the blaster shot in place throughout the scene.
The depiction of the Force felt "off" from how it had been often been shown on screen in the past, and that's before even getting into other questions some of those depictions raised for me in this film.
The "raised from birth" thing also feels like a weird thing for a secretive Empire revival cult to do. It would cost a lot of resources and surely wouldn't go unnoticed if they abduct like milllions of people across the galaxy to work on their starkiller base.
A clone army built in secret in the Outer Rim would feel more like it would fit to the First Order, but we already had that in the prequels and they avoided everything about them like the plague.
One clone getting a conscience and then later being confronted with his own former self(s) would actually be a nice subplot.
Yes Ronald D. Moore.
Remember when Han fires multiple shots at Vader, who brushes them off with his hand? He ain't stopping them because he has special gloves...
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm sure Kylo was putting attention into holding the bolt in place... it'd be like lifting a weight while still holding a conversation. That's why it was released from it's hold as soon as he strode off.
In every interview or video I've seen of them, everyone is just having a ball. So much fun. I can't imagine the ride they're on right now.
Is this meant to invalidate all my points?
He didn't stop the blast in mid-air, it's likely he absorbed them, much like how Yoda absorbs Force lightning in Attack of the Clones or Mace Windu absorbs it in Revenge of the Sith.
I find it more interesting in how the Jedi reflect blaster shots with their lightsabers or absorb energy. It's more inline with physics and the law of the conservation of energy and if there is at least some internal logic with "rules" that the even the most powerful Force users must obey and work with, I think the Force is way more compelling than some power that someone could do anything at any time with.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Does Harrison have a negative vibe toward the franchise or does he just have a different sense of humour that does not click with some people. It seems at times he gives zero fucks, but thats why I love him lol
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think that makes it less compelling... Is this really a series about a bunch of wizards who can tap into a stock set of superpowers?
I kinda thought the Force was really about tapping into the underlying energy of the universe and being able to accomplish anything.
"Size matters not". That doesn't just refer to being able to levitate objects of any size. It refers to the fact that anything is possible if you are properly in tune with the universe.
But there is no visual cue that he is putting any attention to holding it in place other than it moving at the end of the scene. At the very least, it seemed their intention was to convey to me that he was so powerful that he didn't need to put much attention into holding it in place, but we see at the end of the film, he doesn't have that much control nor power, which makes the scene feel like they just wanted something cool for him to do than care about why it works the way it does.
Third watch, time for foreshadowing hunting!
Han Solo Death:
- Chewie laughs off Han's claim that "He'll talk out of it, as he always does"
- Leia tells Han "When you trying to be helpful has actually helped? And don't stay the Death Star"
And then his helpful talk to Ben\Ren gets him killed.
Rey stuff:
- Her initial shot is climbing insanely around a derelict star destroyer - A feat that gets repeated inside Starkiller Base.
- Mechanic skills, mechanic skills everywhere
- "That moron put a compressor [...]" -> "I fixed it by removing the damn compressor!" (Explains why she out-mechanic'd Han)
- Combat skills, obviously
- Maz AWAKENS Rey's Force. Rey proceeds to use force tricks, but only after she observes them used being used by Kylo.
- The Jedi Mind Trick is tried thrice: Once with fear, once with anger, and once in calm. Only the calm attempt works. This is important, because it shows - once again - how the force flows through calmness.
Battles:
- Finn tells Poe to stay low to avoid TIE trackers. When the X-wings come rocking at Maz's, they're very low instead of coming from space.
General observations:
- Kylo wanted to be hailed as the new Vader - and he did, out of universe - as the new whiny kid.
- Damn, that scene of Rey looking at the older woman doing exactly what she's doing - washing salvage.
- Luke is basically Lucas. Did a great thing (OT \ Destroyed the empire), tried again, got blasted for the results (PT \ Training a new Jedi order), walked away from it all (Selling Star Wars \ Self-exile)
- Kylo Ren killed his father to fall completely in the dark side: It mirrors Vader's story, who left the dark side to save his son.
- It kind of makes sense that Starkiller base actually blows up easier than Death Star. More energy, more vulnerable battery.
General comments:
- I really like how Leia\Han is depicted. They're completely different people, who basically lost a son. Relationships almost never survive losing a son, and...
- JJ and the writers in general have absolutely, utterly, no sense of scale. For anything. But that's not a new thing for Star Wars anyhow.
- Luke being a legend is fantastic. It's been only 30 years, but who in their right mind would believe what actually happened?
Han Solo Death:
- Chewie laughs off Han's claim that "He'll talk out of it, as he always does"
- Leia tells Han "When you trying to be helpful has actually helped? And don't stay the Death Star"
And then his helpful talk to Ben\Ren gets him killed.
Rey stuff:
- Her initial shot is climbing insanely around a derelict star destroyer - A feat that gets repeated inside Starkiller Base.
- Mechanic skills, mechanic skills everywhere
- "That moron put a compressor [...]" -> "I fixed it by removing the damn compressor!" (Explains why she out-mechanic'd Han)
- Combat skills, obviously
- Maz AWAKENS Rey's Force. Rey proceeds to use force tricks, but only after she observes them used being used by Kylo.
- The Jedi Mind Trick is tried thrice: Once with fear, once with anger, and once in calm. Only the calm attempt works. This is important, because it shows - once again - how the force flows through calmness.
Battles:
- Finn tells Poe to stay low to avoid TIE trackers. When the X-wings come rocking at Maz's, they're very low instead of coming from space.
General observations:
- Kylo wanted to be hailed as the new Vader - and he did, out of universe - as the new whiny kid.
- Damn, that scene of Rey looking at the older woman doing exactly what she's doing - washing salvage.
- Luke is basically Lucas. Did a great thing (OT \ Destroyed the empire), tried again, got blasted for the results (PT \ Training a new Jedi order), walked away from it all (Selling Star Wars \ Self-exile)
- Kylo Ren killed his father to fall completely in the dark side: It mirrors Vader's story, who left the dark side to save his son.
- It kind of makes sense that Starkiller base actually blows up easier than Death Star. More energy, more vulnerable battery.
General comments:
- I really like how Leia\Han is depicted. They're completely different people, who basically lost a son. Relationships almost never survive losing a son, and...
- JJ and the writers in general have absolutely, utterly, no sense of scale. For anything. But that's not a new thing for Star Wars anyhow.
- Luke being a legend is fantastic. It's been only 30 years, but who in their right mind would believe what actually happened?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I bet under that mask he was making the same face that I make for my girlfriend when I carry heavy grocery bags.
"....it's... fine.... no problem.... *hnnng*...."
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Now that would be brave... Pretty sure it would anger the fanbase far more than midichlorians tho.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Just saw the movie. Loved it. Few to no complaints.
But a question: Did some of you mention that Obi-Wan spoke to Rey in her head? If so, when did that happen?
But a question: Did some of you mention that Obi-Wan spoke to Rey in her head? If so, when did that happen?
When Rey grabs Anakin/Luke's lightsaber.
You can hear old Obi Wan (Alec Guiness) and young Obi Wan (Ewan McGregor).
Old Obi: "Rey!"
Young Obi: "These are your first steps".
But like I was saying, that doesn't mean the ability to defy a set of physical properties such as physics (for example) in anyway they want.
It's not about having a stock set of super powers, since their upper limit is presumably something that will never be known, even from the most powerful Force users that have been shown in the universe, but if you are introducing new powers, at the very least, they seem to be something that would be reserved for Force users of incredible ability and/or training. Kylo Ren's characterization seems to contradict that, but I wasn't even trying to get into that whole debate. I just don't like how they tried to introduce new Force ideas, since it didn't feel like it fit to me; both in how the powers had previously been established as well as how they had been introduced with these new characters. It felt like some fan-fiction, not in a good way.
Nice observations. I'll be paying attention to the mind trick scene when I see the movie again tomorrow.
Megalosaro
Banned
My only complaint is the shot of Hosnia Prime being blown up from Maz's planet. It's kind of silly to see it and also its moons all blown up. It's like Hosnia is right next door to where they are.
APZonerunner
Member
The more I think about it, the more I'm actually sort of sad that the Force Ghost Anakin stuff talking to Luke and/or Kylo from very early scripts/concepts never came to pass. The idea that he'd actually be a corrupted force ghost and would flicker uncontrollably between good Anakin and Darth Vader is actually a pretty great image, and I am perfectly game for seeing Christensen in the role well-directed, as he's not a bad actor. The truth is there was no room for this in this movie, especially once Luke was bumped completely out of it, but maybe they'll reuse this later on. (This is in the art book they put out, or something like that - someone linked it in this thread a few days ago.)
In her vision when she grabs the Skywalker lightsaber, you hear Obi Wan say "Rey" and whisper "These are your first steps". The first was used from footage of Alec Guinness in the OT and Ewan McGregor recorded the whisper.
Uhhh...
The Emperor literally shoots lightning from his hands. They already are able to super jump, move at super speed (which they never use again past the opening of Episode I), are telekenetic, telepathic, can see the future.
Why is halting a bolt of energy a stretch?
I looked at this as he has great powers over certain areas...i.e. the blaster shot. The EU went with Jedis having almost specialized force powers. I walked away from the movie assuming he was weak in lightsaber skills but powerful with energy, fully expecting force lightning out of him in future.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's linked in the OP
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can totally see your point.
At the same time I had kind of lamented how the Force had been codified into these stock powers based on what we saw in the OT/PT and the limitations of being able to innovate on the Force in EU materials.
What I saw in TFA was pleasing to me, because it seemed like the Force had become unstuck in its old paradigms.
Putting aside the concentration aspect... it does make sense that you could slow blaster shots using the Force, given that you can lift X-wings (assuming blaster shots have mass). It might not even be a "new power", just a creative application of what we already know the Force is capable of.
(I realized most people are posting here now, so kinda cross posting from the non spoiler OT)
How I rank them after watching it a second time today:
1. V
2. VII
3. IV
4. VI
5. III
6.
7. I & II
Might go watch it again in a few weeks, and I'm definitely getting the Blu-Rey of this and watch it a million more times.
How I rank them after watching it a second time today:
1. V
2. VII
3. IV
4. VI
5. III
6.
7. I & II
Might go watch it again in a few weeks, and I'm definitely getting the Blu-Rey of this and watch it a million more times.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Nah man it's about levelling up and unlocking powers and making sure you spend your points on the right talents. Like when Kylo killed Han, it gave him enough Dark Side XP to level up and allowed him to spec into Full Sith so now he can go to his talent trainer and learn Spin More and Force Lightning.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
"Size matters not." was bullshit anyway. Yoda immediately proved that by struggling mightily to lift an X-Wing.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
My worst nightmare. But I'm sure there are geeks who eat that interpretation up.
Digital-Hero
Member
Pretty close to what most including myself rank it. I agree with you on Ep4. Man that bores me.
AlimNassor
Banned
It wasn't bad. Kylo Ren was amazing...i can't believe he's hated. He's not some generic evil guy, hes seriously conflicted acolyte trying to be a somebody. His arc is going to be amazing.
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