heliosRAzi
Banned
I read scripts of bad movies all of the time. They're entertaining. And I liked the movie. It's a solid C. It could've been better, but it's definitely not bad.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
I read scripts of bad movies all of the time. They're entertaining. And I liked the movie. It's a solid C. It could've been better, but it's definitely not bad.
Loved the New-old Xwings, but was so disappointing that there were no other kind of ships, even if its explained, would have really liked to se Y,B, and A wings again. (specially B wings not only because recent Starwars Rebels - B wing episode was truly great, but it has always been one of my favourites)
As presented in the film, she was pretty clearly channeling the dark side at the end of the fight, but she may not have (and almost assuredly hadn't) even realized that. She didn't struggle with the dark side, she almost gave in to it out of ignorance. She was caught up in the moment.
The ground cracking was a big theatrical moment, essentially a trope of the genre demonstrating the divide of the characters and that their fight isn't over in this moment. See the first Captain America for another example of this exact thing. It's the ref making the two boxers return to their corner. It's a big, dramatic, theatrical, metaphorical, and yes artificial, thing. I loved it because it was basically embracing its own genre in that moment.
I took it as the force itself intervening, separating the two before shit really popped off and went south for Rey, like "Hey, woah now, we gotta get these two away from each other. Now's not the time for this to happen lest we want irreversible consequences."
brandonh83
Banned
Anyone notice a bit from the Hoth battle music in track 7, believe it's called The Falcon?
Anyway yeah it's a great score, just not as immediately memorable as the previous ones apart from a handful of themes. But that hardly makes it lackluster.
Yes it's called the Falcon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8_2K7QNtpI&index=7&list=PLWKXJQUwVcfexiFdxZDrFGCx7RGbsuQUV
LegendofLex
Member
Compare this fight to the one at the beginning of Episode III, where Anakin successfully disarms Dooku but then kills him anyway.
The film doesn't try to make it a huge dilemma, since the turning point of the fight is supposed to be Rey embracing the Force and not channeling the dark side, but we're definitely meant to contrast Rey's choice to spare him with Anakin's choice to finish Dooku off (likewise, with Kylo's choice to kill his father).
It's a moral distinction between the characters, underlined by the literal rift that then appears between them.
Figured I'd throw this in here instead of the review thread, Anita Sarkeesian put up a review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4mA_rIeBAQ
She liked the film but had a lot of issues with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4mA_rIeBAQ
She liked the film but had a lot of issues with it
Rey's face looked pretty angry and determined in her fight, though. I didn't get a sense she was channeling the light until they crossed lightsabers and she closed her eyes.
LegendofLex
Member
Yeah, but you're supposed to get the impression that she "isn't doing it right" until that moment.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Yep! Super obvious on a second viewing in particular. I had problems with Finn hanging with Kylo in the first viewing, but definitely got over it when I saw the movie a second time.
The Librarian
Banned
Convincing case from the Verge on why Rey shouldn't be a Skywalker http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/30/...le:fixed&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Atraveller
Banned
I mean Kylo even turned his back on Finn waiting for him to get up, he was teaching this traitor a lesson.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Finn shouldn't be conflicted about killing the people he grew up with because they are space nazis. They're space nazis and deserve to be put down. /s
PrivateWHudson
Member
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
it was extremely noticeable. the girl shines blue light all the damn time.
saw this at imax last night. loved it.
Kylo toys with Finn for the most part until Finn gets a shot in. Kylo disables him immediately after that.
Kylo also has Rey fleeing and defensive for the duration of the fight, until he makes his proposition and she gets some Force guidance. He also seems to be paler and sweatier as the end sequence progresses.
Kylo also has Rey fleeing and defensive for the duration of the fight, until he makes his proposition and she gets some Force guidance. He also seems to be paler and sweatier as the end sequence progresses.
Metalingus5150
Member
Kylo Ren will be redeemed in the same way Vader was. Dying to save the galaxy.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Absolutely. He knocks Finn to the ground and walks away when he could deal the killing blow. He's arrogant and cocky.
In the scene where Kylo is talking to Vader's helmet, about the temptation of the light, he says something along the lines of 'show me again the power of the darkness, grandfather.' I wonder if he's supposedly getting visions, or voices, from 'Vader'. Maybe Snoke playing tricks on him?
Halcyon
Member
Finn shouldn't be conflicted about killing the people he grew up with because they are space nazis. They're space nazis and deserve to be put down. /s
I've said in this thread I think that a few of the relationships and motivations are forced, but that review made me want to punch a baby.
Maz and Chewbacca more like. They are totally hooking up.
I'm glad people have come around and seem to be watching the same movie that I am in this regard. It sounds like most people are over the "LOL Ren is so weak!" argument due to his lightsaber duels with Finn and Rey.
QuantumZebra
Member
Yea taking a bowcaster to the ribs will do that.
Seriously, that shot would have owned anybody else. I can't believe people are like "Wtf Rey beat Kylo thats so lame" and completely ignore the fact that he should've died like 30 minutes before that even happened.
I wondered that myself. It is definitely intriguing.
Anyone have Kenobi's full dialogue during Rey's vision sequence? In the first theatre I saw the movie at, the words were crystal clear. The sound mixing in IMAX last night almost totally covered up that part of the vision dialogue. It seems like a lot of people are missing this as well due to poor sound mixing in some theatres. Most just hear "These are your firs steps" at the end.
Digital-Hero
Member
I got my CD and listened to it a few times and like a total of 5 or 6 tracks of the 23. Definitely not as memorable out the gate, but there are some gems on there.
Interfectum
Member
To send that point home, there was a scene with Solo directly talking about how powerful and badass that bowcaster is.
Vader gets zapped by some force electricity and dies. Boba Fett gets eaten by a hole in the sand. No issues. Kylo absords a bowcaster blast in the ribs, continues to fight and lives to fight another day... wuss.
She has a lot of issues beyond just the film.
heliosRAzi
Banned
My favourite bit is the 2-3 seconds of piano when Rey is sliding down the face of the sand dune. Assuming this is her theme.
Halcyon
Member
Just came off as pretentious to me.
Yeah, even after my first viewing I didn't see how people were missing the state Kylo was in by the end. Not too mention he gets sliced on his right arm as well before facing Rey.
And yeah, I'm very interested in seeing more about how Kylo was corrupted and what that line meant. Hopefully we get that info.
That is from the Scavenger I believe which is pretty similar to Rey's theme.
I think this is the part that plays when she slides down the dune (@0:52)
https://youtu.be/Q3YcCLaTnBE?list=PLWKXJQUwVcfexiFdxZDrFGCx7RGbsuQUV&t=53
heliosRAzi
Banned
Was there anything you didn't agree with?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That is one of the big problems of the direction Lucas took the prequels, yes, but a lot of that stems back to a fundamental misunderstanding of whose victory Return of the Jedi is. Because it's not really Anakin's. It's Luke's.
We should never really be happy for Vader. We should be happy that Luke's frankly insane gamble paid off at just the right moment. Vader did the right thing because Luke needed him to, and trusted in him to do it with his life on the line.
That's not really Vader's victory. But if you take like 15 years off, and decide to return to the story, and you spend a lot of that 15 years telling people that the story of Star Wars isn't Luke's (when it very obviously is) but Anakin's, when you do come back to it you're going to skew the balance (ha! get it) fairly strongly.
Anakin's redemption is still weak. It will never not be weak. And his turn wasn't handled very well at all. But you can at least step back, look at the basic beats of his story, the arc it went on, and see that the character felt cornered in a way Kylo obviously never has.
If Vader's redemption felt weak, imagine how weak Kylo's potential redemption would feel when all the heinous shit he's pulled was less "necessary" from any standpoint.
It's the difference between "I did things because I felt I couldn't NOT do them" vs. "I did them just because."
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Star Wars (tm)
Masses of geeks have been passionately hating on those prequels for 15 years.
This actually mirrors the Vader/Luke fight in Cloud City.
Vader toys with Luke for most of the fight, as he doesn't want to kill him - then Luke nicks him on the right shoulder (with the same lightsaber Finn uses against Kylo) - within just a few seconds, Vader disarms Luke and the fight is over.
Fast forward to TFA, when Kylo is toying with Finn. Finn then nicks him on the right shoulder - Kylo then disarms him within just a few seconds to end the fight.
Digital-Hero
Member
I will disagree with it that. Vader almost took off Luke's head when he went back into the hallway. Please watch again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-DeI3ohVbY (4:51 into the video)
Well he was in the process of dying during the fight. The bolt wouldn't have by anything vital but it ripped a chunk of his body off.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Isn't she a bit...tall for a Yoda spawn?
heliosRAzi
Banned
yodafleshlight.jpg
Grover Cleveland
Member
Yoda met a Snoke-sized woman (his actual size not the hologram).
Midi-chlorians work in mysterious ways.
I just came back from my second viewing of the movie. I liked it even more. The whole Starkiller part seemed less shoehorned in this time. Because this time I noticed that the whole firing of the super weapon is actually a plan B that it's activated when Kylo and Hux fail to recover the map. And it's mainly driven by Snoke who wants to stop by all means the returning of Luke.
Some other new things noticed compared to the first viewing:
- the movie practically starts with Lor San Tekka saying that the force is unbalanced and that a new Jedi must appear in order to balance it; Poe thinks that this means finding Luke, but now I think that this means the appearance of Rey. He specifically says a new jedi
- Han Solo looks far from happy when Luke's name is mentioned for the first time; he and Leia are softly blaming Luke for the fate of Ben
- Luke doesn't look happy to see Rey; he's sad and/or scared when shows him the lightsaber
- the whole Maz segment is the key to Rey's story. She specifically mention that the ones Rey is waiting are not coming back but somebody is coming back and she should stop looking back and instead look to the future in practically the same phrase. Which for me means that her parents are dead and her future lies with Luke
- also her flashback is actually a mix between flashback and vision, the same with Maz's speech.
- Rey as a child is left prisoner to Unkar Lutt. As a hostage or for ransom, remains to be seen. The way Unkar holds her is pretty obvious.
- Kylo beats the shit out of both Finn and Rey up until the moment he mentions the force to Rey and she has an epiphany, even mumbling to herself "the force".
- clearly Kylo still has his hand after the fight.
- the score is much more present on second viewing. I don't know if it's a difference in sound between IMAX 3d and now in digital 2d of just the fact that the first time I was paying more attention to the action and ignoring the music because of the hype, but it is there, highlighting the most important parts of the movie
- To the Han/Kylo scene I add now the Kylo/Rey mind battle as the best played parts of the movie. The facial expressions during that mind battle are incredibly well done, pointing the fear, the shift in power, the surprise and all. Both actors are acting extraordinarily in this movie. The second moment during the final fight is also strong, but shorter and didn't raise to the level of the first one.
Edit:
- According to the flashback and Maz's words, she can't really be Luke's daughter, unless there is a big stretch happening in the script for Episode VIII. Her parents are the past and dead and Luke is the future.
- Daisy really plays well the surprise after each time Rey manages to use the force. Even after Leia tells her "May the force be with you", her look is one of "that's cool, but I still have not idea how I did that".
- Anakin's lightsaber seems to me to be rather a message that Rey must carry to Luke rather than an inheritance for her.
Some other new things noticed compared to the first viewing:
- the movie practically starts with Lor San Tekka saying that the force is unbalanced and that a new Jedi must appear in order to balance it; Poe thinks that this means finding Luke, but now I think that this means the appearance of Rey. He specifically says a new jedi
- Han Solo looks far from happy when Luke's name is mentioned for the first time; he and Leia are softly blaming Luke for the fate of Ben
- Luke doesn't look happy to see Rey; he's sad and/or scared when shows him the lightsaber
- the whole Maz segment is the key to Rey's story. She specifically mention that the ones Rey is waiting are not coming back but somebody is coming back and she should stop looking back and instead look to the future in practically the same phrase. Which for me means that her parents are dead and her future lies with Luke
- also her flashback is actually a mix between flashback and vision, the same with Maz's speech.
- Rey as a child is left prisoner to Unkar Lutt. As a hostage or for ransom, remains to be seen. The way Unkar holds her is pretty obvious.
- Kylo beats the shit out of both Finn and Rey up until the moment he mentions the force to Rey and she has an epiphany, even mumbling to herself "the force".
- clearly Kylo still has his hand after the fight.
- the score is much more present on second viewing. I don't know if it's a difference in sound between IMAX 3d and now in digital 2d of just the fact that the first time I was paying more attention to the action and ignoring the music because of the hype, but it is there, highlighting the most important parts of the movie
- To the Han/Kylo scene I add now the Kylo/Rey mind battle as the best played parts of the movie. The facial expressions during that mind battle are incredibly well done, pointing the fear, the shift in power, the surprise and all. Both actors are acting extraordinarily in this movie. The second moment during the final fight is also strong, but shorter and didn't raise to the level of the first one.
Edit:
- According to the flashback and Maz's words, she can't really be Luke's daughter, unless there is a big stretch happening in the script for Episode VIII. Her parents are the past and dead and Luke is the future.
- Daisy really plays well the surprise after each time Rey manages to use the force. Even after Leia tells her "May the force be with you", her look is one of "that's cool, but I still have not idea how I did that".
- Anakin's lightsaber seems to me to be rather a message that Rey must carry to Luke rather than an inheritance for her.
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