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[RuinerPrime]

I secretly hope she's a Kenobi

 

[sc0la]

I secretly hope she's a Kenobi

I wasn't into this before, especially since she couldn't be his daughter, but I am warming to it. If she were his grand daughter there would be a nice symmetry with Kylo as Vaders grandson (especially offering to teach her).

It might also be one of the only things that could convince Luke to reluctantly take her on as a student.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Some other new things noticed compared to the first viewing:

- Han Solo looks far from happy when Luke's name is mentioned for the first time; he and Leia are softly blaming Luke for the fate of Ben
It appears that he misses him more than blaming him. Why would Leia be looking for him if there is animosity. Ben was clearly troubled before they sent him to his uncle.

- Luke doesn't look happy to see Rey; he's sad and/or scared when shows him the lightsaber
I didn't get that vibe at all. It appeared he now realizes that he can't run from this.

- the whole Maz segment is the key to Rey's story. She specifically mention that the ones Rey is waiting are not coming back but somebody is coming back and she should stop looking back and instead look to the future in practically the same phrase. Which for me means that her parents are dead and her future lies with Luke
- also her flashback is actually a mix between flashback and vision, the same with Maz's speech.

- According to the flashback and Maz's words, she can't really be Luke's daughter, unless there is a big stretch happening in the script for Episode VIII. Her parents are the past and dead and Luke is the future.
They aren't coming back doesn't mean dead... It can mean they want to keep her hidden or gave up on her.

- Daisy really plays well the surprise after each time Rey manages to use the force. Even after Leia tells her "May the force be with you", her look is one of "that's cool, but I still have not idea how I did that".
She seems happy to hear that are realizes this is her journey. I didn't get a I have no idea how I did that.
- Anakin's lightsaber seems to me to be rather a message that Rey must carry to Luke rather than an inheritance for her.

My opinions are inline bolded.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I just came back from my second viewing of the movie. I liked it even more. The whole Starkiller part seemed less shoehorned in this time. Because this time I noticed that the whole firing of the super weapon is actually a plan B that it's activated when Kylo and Hux fail to recover the map. And it's mainly driven by Snoke who wants to stop by all means the returning of Luke.

Some other new things noticed compared to the first viewing:

- Kylo beats the shit out of both Finn and Rey up until the moment he mentions the force to Rey and she has an epiphany, even mumbling to herself "the force".

- the score is much more present on second viewing. I don't know if it's a difference in sound between IMAX 3d and now in digital 2d of just the fact that the first time I was paying more attention to the action and ignoring the music because of the hype, but it is there, highlighting the most important parts of the movie

- To the Han/Kylo scene I add now the Kylo/Rey mind battle as the best played parts of the movie. The facial expressions during that mind battle are incredibly well done, pointing the fear, the shift in power, the surprise and all. Both actors are acting extraordinarily in this movie. The second moment during the final fight is also strong, but shorter and didn't raise to the level of the first one.
Edit:
- According to the flashback and Maz's words, she can't really be Luke's daughter, unless there is a big stretch happening in the script for Episode VIII. Her parents are the past and dead and Luke is the future.

Good observations. I've found that TFA not only holds up to repeat watches, but rewards them with a lot of nuance emerging that is easy to miss on first viewing. The score has really grown on me as well. What I initially dismissed as flat or uninspired has emerged as understated and subtle; not worse than the OT but rather a somewhat different approach. I've come to really appreciate it.

The Rey/Ren interrogation scene could have gone wrong so many different ways. It's basically a staring contest that lasts quite a while, and I think with less capable actors and and under different direction, could have been hilarious. Instead it's one of the best scenes in the film; the slow balance of power flip that takes place is so well conveyed.

 

[KevinG]

Good observations. I've found that TFA not only holds up to repeat watches, but rewards them with a lot of nuance emerging that is easy to miss on first viewing. The score has really grown on me as well. What I initially dismissed as flat or uninspired has emerged as understated and subtle; not worse than the OT but rather a somewhat different approach. I've come to really appreciate it.

The Rey/Ren interrogation scene could have gone wrong so many different ways. It's basically a staring contest that lasts quite a while, and I think with less capable actors and and under different direction, could have been hilarious. Instead it's one of the best scenes in the film; the slow balance of power flip that takes place is so well conveyed.

I feel the same way. My first viewing, I enjoyed the music, but mostly didn't take much notice of it apart from the callbacks to OT themes. After listening to the OST and seeing the film two more times, I quite like the subtlety to the music in the overall sound design.

That interrogation scene is made by great acting, and sound design. "Hearing" the force vibrate and push back and forth was well executed. I kept thinking how awkward this scene really could have been, but Ridley and Driver nailed it.

 

[KingSnake]

The Rey/Ren interrogation scene could have gone wrong so many different ways. It's basically a staring contest that lasts quite a while, and I think with less capable actors and and under different direction, could have been hilarious. Instead it's one of the best scenes in the film; the slow balance of power flip that takes place is so well conveyed.

Yeah, this I noticed this time too. It's a scene that is not easy to play and both actors are great are showing their feelings/struggle only using the facial expressions.

Edit: my answers:

My opinions are inline bolded.

It appears that he misses him more than blaming him. Why would Leia be looking for him if there is animosity. Ben was clearly troubled before they sent him to his uncle.

It seemed to me more of a pain/angry reaction than a nostalgic one. Of course, the way we interpret the facial expressions can differ, so we can be both wrong

I didn't get that vibe at all. It appeared he now realizes that he can't run from this.

Well, that's practically fear plus recognizing that there is no way to run from what scares him, so it's not that far away from what I felt.

They aren't coming back doesn't mean dead... It can mean they want to keep her hidden or gave up on her.

That's correct. But that means they are dead for her anyway. And they are not Luke.

She seems happy to hear that are realizes this is her journey. I didn't get a I have no idea how I did that.

Yeah, there is also happiness for finding her belonging (as Maz said), but that's more visible once she steps into the Millennium Falcon. Maybe not "how the hell I did that", but "yeah, it's me who can do this force thing" kind of amazement.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I will disagree with it that. Vader almost took off Luke's head when he went back into the hallway. Please watch again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-DeI3ohVbY (4:51 into the video)

It was more like Vader was testing him.

"Impressive... Most impressive."

Just in this case, failure to pass Vader's challenges result in death.

He did want him to join him so they could defeat the emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I will disagree with it that. Vader almost took off Luke's head when he went back into the hallway. Please watch again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-DeI3ohVbY (4:51 into the video)

Tbf...Ren almost takes Finn's head off as well though.

I don't have the gif, but that spin move thing he did almost beheaded Finn!

(FWIW, I don't feel like it's useful to analyze the choreography this precisely, just saying, dude was swingin' hard)

 

[Alcander]

Just watched it again last night, loved it even more.

Honestly my biggest complaint is that after this re-watch I realized that I actually disliked most of the score, which is shocking to me as I love JW. Rey's song and the song at the end were good, but other than that there was hardly any new material, and much of the rest seemed frankly misplaced. It was odd.

SO good otherwise though. I love Adam Driver.

[edit] and like others said the rey/ren interrogation scene is probably the best scene in the film. I adore the lack of dialogue and exceptional facial acting. I think the sound editing helps A LOT here too (the "force sounds")

 

[LegendofLex]

My observations/responses to KingSnake, in bold:

- the movie practically starts with Lor San Tekka saying that the force is unbalanced and that a new Jedi must appear in order to balance it; Poe thinks that this means finding Luke, but now I think that this means the appearance of Rey. He specifically says a new jedi

A lot of people still feel like "balance" has to do with "the light and dark sides existing in balance," but I think it has specifically to do with the dark side not manipulating the Force to cause destruction. The Jedi aren't needed to bring the Force back into balance because they represent the light side; they're needed because they're the only ones that can topple the dark side's influence.

We see this play out metaphorically in the way Starkiller Base works; it's literally a corruption of a planet that sucks up stars. Its destruction comes because this process is destabilized and the planet collapses around the collected star energy.

I think this does inevitably mean finding Luke, but it also means Luke having the chance to bring Rey properly to the Force.

- Han Solo looks far from happy when Luke's name is mentioned for the first time; he and Leia are softly blaming Luke for the fate of Ben

Maz reflects later that Han has been running away from a fight with the First Order, presumably so he doesn't come full circle and have to face his son. That Luke has come crashing back into his life via Finn and Rey means he'll inevitably intersect with that fight; indeed, he runs into Kylo on Takodana and is literally scared shitless to see what he's become.

- Luke doesn't look happy to see Rey; he's sad and/or scared when shows him the lightsaber

Agreed; this is really the only way I can imagine this scene being interpreted. If Luke played any role in sending Rey to Jakku - I personally imagine he did so to give her a chance to approach Jedi training from the same position he did, as opposed to raising her into it from childhood like they tried with Kylo (and Anakin before him) - he's finally being forced to face the consequences of that decision, whatever they may be.

- the whole Maz segment is the key to Rey's story. She specifically mention that the ones Rey is waiting are not coming back but somebody is coming back and she should stop looking back and instead look to the future in practically the same phrase. Which for me means that her parents are dead and her future lies with Luke

- According to the flashback and Maz's words, she can't really be Luke's daughter, unless there is a big stretch happening in the script for Episode VIII. Her parents are the past and dead and Luke is the future.

I don't think this means her parents are dead; it just means literally that whoever left her on Jakku isn't going to go back for her (and so she should stop clinging to the past). Based on what I think about why she was left there in the first place, my belief is that this is because she needed to choose to leave (to accept her own future despite uncertainty) to come into her acceptance of the Force with the proper perspective.

- Kylo beats the shit out of both Finn and Rey up until the moment he mentions the force to Rey and she has an epiphany, even mumbling to herself "the force".

Yup. Rey wins because she realizes she needs to let the Force in. It's her moment of fulfilling what Maz told her: "The light; it's always been there. It will guide you."

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

I just came back from my second viewing of the movie. I liked it even more. The whole Starkiller part seemed less shoehorned in this time. Because this time I noticed that the whole firing of the super weapon is actually a plan B that it's activated when Kylo and Hux fail to recover the map. And it's mainly driven by Snoke who wants to stop by all means the returning of Luke.

Some other new things noticed compared to the first viewing:
- the movie practically starts with Lor San Tekka saying that the force is unbalanced and that a new Jedi must appear in order to balance it; Poe thinks that this means finding Luke, but now I think that this means the appearance of Rey. He specifically says a new jedi
- Han Solo looks far from happy when Luke's name is mentioned for the first time; he and Leia are softly blaming Luke for the fate of Ben
- Luke doesn't look happy to see Rey; he's sad and/or scared when shows him the lightsaber
- the whole Maz segment is the key to Rey's story. She specifically mention that the ones Rey is waiting are not coming back but somebody is coming back and she should stop looking back and instead look to the future in practically the same phrase. Which for me means that her parents are dead and her future lies with Luke
- also her flashback is actually a mix between flashback and vision, the same with Maz's speech.
- Rey as a child is left prisoner to Unkar Lutt. As a hostage or for ransom, remains to be seen. The way Unkar holds her is pretty obvious.
- Kylo beats the shit out of both Finn and Rey up until the moment he mentions the force to Rey and she has an epiphany, even mumbling to herself "the force".
- clearly Kylo still has his hand after the fight.
- the score is much more present on second viewing. I don't know if it's a difference in sound between IMAX 3d and now in digital 2d of just the fact that the first time I was paying more attention to the action and ignoring the music because of the hype, but it is there, highlighting the most important parts of the movie
- To the Han/Kylo scene I add now the Kylo/Rey mind battle as the best played parts of the movie. The facial expressions during that mind battle are incredibly well done, pointing the fear, the shift in power, the surprise and all. Both actors are acting extraordinarily in this movie. The second moment during the final fight is also strong, but shorter and didn't raise to the level of the first one.
Edit:
- According to the flashback and Maz's words, she can't really be Luke's daughter, unless there is a big stretch happening in the script for Episode VIII. Her parents are the past and dead and Luke is the future.
- Daisy really plays well the surprise after each time Rey manages to use the force. Even after Leia tells her "May the force be with you", her look is one of "that's cool, but I still have not idea how I did that".
- Anakin's lightsaber seems to me to be rather a message that Rey must carry to Luke rather than an inheritance for her.

On exactly the same page with a lot of this. I was happy on my first viewing, mainly just relieved that it was pretty good and nailed the most important elements. Second viewing, I think I love it. I'm especially blown away by Rey, it's hard to imagine a more attractive character.

Romance between her & Finn is a certainty. I'm not saying it will be straightforward or they definitely 'end up together'. But the foundations are very clear. From Finn's "A boyfriend, a cute boyfriend?" to the way he says he ran "straight into you", and the effect it has on her. These (especially the latter) are hugely significant things to say, and the emotional bond between these two is like the base of the film. Finn's only job in the finale is to refocus the battle into a rescue mission for her (although Han was already invested). She struggles to articulate how she feels about that (legit blown away), but eventually manages "thanks". They mean so much to each other, representing a turning point from a miserable past to a hopeful future. More than almost anything else, I so want to see these two fulfil their feelings for one another.

 

[NimbusD]

Random thought I just felt like posting. How cool would it be to see Luke just straight up murder kylo in ep 8 and thus fall to the dark side. We can still have evil luke.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

As someone who has never saw any of the SW movies, will I enjoy this? My friend got free tickets and wants to take me this weekend, but I might be lost in the story. Also, is it worth it to upgrade it and watch it in 3D or not?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

As someone who has never saw any of the SW movies, will I enjoy this?

Yeah, you'll follow along just fine. The movie explains everything you need to know about how Star Wars works as it goes along. It's a hop-on point.

The 3D is okay at best. Not necessary to the film at all.

 

[Digital-Hero]

It was more like Vader was testing him.

"Impressive... Most impressive."

Just in this case, failure to pass Vader's challenges result in death.

He did want him to join him so they could defeat the emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son.

Sith Lord's are liars man. They backstab each other all the time like Greek gods. To Vader, Luke was about to commit suicide from the fall. Luke would've chosen death instead of turning at that point.

 

[GhaleonEB]

As someone who has never saw any of the SW movies, will I enjoy this? My friend got free tickets and wants to take me this weekend, but I might be lost in the story. Also, is it worth it to upgrade it and watch it in 3D or not?

One of my daughters went without having seen any of the others. She quite enjoyed it. Its as much of a reboot to the series as a sequel, so while knowing the history of the story and some characters adds to it, you won't be missing anything that's central to the story told in TFA.

 

[prag16]

Just came off as pretentious to me.

I can't stomach most professional reviews for this very reason. Positive or negative, they almost always come off pretentious as fuck.

There was one several pages back that people were praising as an outstanding writeup, many agreeing, etc, including Bobby Roberts.

I read it and wanted to stab myself. One of the most pretentious and pseudointellectual sounding things I've ever read.

 

[Interfectum]

As someone who has never saw any of the SW movies, will I enjoy this? My friend got free tickets and wants to take me this weekend, but I might be lost in the story. Also, is it worth it to upgrade it and watch it in 3D or not?

Yes go see it. My 21 year old female cousin went to see it on a whim, never seen Star Wars before, loved it, loved Rey, bought and watched the original trilogy.

Skip 3D.

 

[Snake]

I just dont even...
Its 100% unquestioningly there. Close to that scene Poe even says "As long as there is light, we have a chance!"

Start of the conversation:

Nearing the point of "Im being torn apart"

Just before killing Han Solo. The light from the star dims to near black:

After killing Solo:

Damn. Even that light in front of Rey's chest hints at what's going to happen.

 

[Pagusas]

As someone who has never saw any of the SW movies, will I enjoy this? My friend got free tickets and wants to take me this weekend, but I might be lost in the story. Also, is it worth it to upgrade it and watch it in 3D or not?

This would be a great gateway drug style movie. I imagine a lot of people are seeing this without having ever seen the original trilogy, and will come away with a desire to see what they missed.

As a stand alone movie its fun, though you will not know the importance of some things and probably not understand why they shot things certain ways.

For example, the scene with Finn and Rye running for a ship at Tie Fighters fired on them on Jakku was magical for me when you hear Finn say "what about that one" and Rey says "thats a piece of junk", the camera doesnt show what they are talking about but every fan knew instantly and got a smile on their face. then when you see them change direction and the camera slowly pans to reveal the Millennium Falcon, its like a warm feeling just engulfs you. Thats nostalgia and the film makers played us fans like a fiddle with it during the film, using it as a tool to "highten" some scenes, to great effect.

The use of nostalgia as a tool wont work on you, so some of the scenes may not be as "fun" or "happy" for you.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

pretentious has basically become a synonym for "that guy thinks they're smart and I don't like it."

Which isn't really what the word means, which makes the usage of it in that way pretentious in and of itself.

Everybody wants to be a critic, but nobody wants to be a critic.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I can't stomach most professional reviews for this very reason. Positive or negative, they almost always come off pretentious as fuck.

There was one several pages back that people were praising as an outstanding writeup, many agreeing, etc, including Bobby Roberts.

I read it and wanted to stab myself. One of the most pretentious and pseudointellectual sounding things I've ever read.

I read that one and didn't comment, but I thought it made a few good points, while also reading like a sophomore college essay assignment. The "don't fuck it up" intro was on point, though.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Damn. Even that light in front of Rey's chest hints at what's going to happen.

Slight foreshadowing there and is a greatly planned scene. JJ did well.

 

[SpotAnime]

Good observations. I've found that TFA not only holds up to repeat watches, but rewards them with a lot of nuance emerging that is easy to miss on first viewing. The score has really grown on me as well. What I initially dismissed as flat or uninspired has emerged as understated and subtle; not worse than the OT but rather a somewhat different approach. I've come to really appreciate it.

I feel the same way. My first viewing, I enjoyed the music, but mostly didn't take much notice of it apart from the callbacks to OT themes. After listening to the OST and seeing the film two more times, I quite like the subtlety to the music in the overall sound design.

Just watched it again last night, loved it even more.

Honestly my biggest complaint is that after this re-watch I realized that I actually disliked most of the score, which is shocking to me as I love JW. Rey's song and the song at the end were good, but other than that there was hardly any new material, and much of the rest seemed frankly misplaced. It was odd.

Tracksounds has their podcast up with an analysis of the TFA film score. A good listen/dissection for those who loved or hated it alike.

http://www.tracksounds.com/specialfeatures/soundcast/index.htm

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Tracksounds has their podcast up with an analysis of the TFA film score. A good listen/dissection for those who loved or hated it alike.

http://www.tracksounds.com/specialfeatures/soundcast/index.htm

Hey, thanks for that. Listened to Star Wars Oxygen yesterday, and liked it, up until the point they kept repeatedly comparing it to Adele for whatever reason. Curious to see what these guys have to say about it.

The score has definitely grown on me (looping it pretty much non-stop is going to do that) but I still feel it's the weakest of the 7. But much like the movie itself, I feel there's a lot of good groundwork laid for the next picture, much in the same way Empire REALLY elaborated and improved upon what Star Wars sounded like.

 

[RuinerPrime]

Can anyone link me to the post that breaks down the Kylo vs Rey/Finn in gif form? It was in one of these OTs. And I can't find it.

 

[prag16]

I read that one and didn't comment, but I thought it made a few good points, while also reading like a sophomore college essay assignment. The "don't fuck it up" intro was on point, though.

Yep, it did definitely make some good points and observations. Your college assignment description is accurate though imo. Hence my use of the term "pretentious".

pretentious has basically become a synonym for "that guy thinks they're smart and I don't like it."

Which isn't really what the word means, which makes the usage of it in that way pretentious in and of itself.

Everybody wants to be a critic, but nobody wants to be a critic.

While you're not wrong in a broad sense (I didn't watch the Sarkeesian video the guy I quoted was commenting on so maybe he used the term inappropriately), but I used the term deliberately here.

pre·ten·tious/prəˈten(t)SHəs/
adjective
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

That basically nails what I was going for. And it's my take away from FAR too many professional film reviews. I get that vibe sometimes with music reviews too, but not as badly. Surprisingly video game reviews on average strike me as the least offensive. Probably because the most pretentious of the "critic" type would see video games as beneath them in general.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Seems like this thread likes the movie, which I guess I'm not too surprised.

Still thought it started off really good, and then somehow turned utterly terrible. Han Solo's death was obvious from a mile away and was SO cliche (seriously, Kyl'o-ren (sp?) is such a coward that he needs to ask his dad to come over and then kill him as he pretends to waver on crap). The light saber fight scene and the convenient "ground rips apart" were absolutely terrible too. Rey was just like "oh right! the force. Forgot about that" and then proceeds to massacre the "injured" but trained Kylo. She was never trained in the force, never knew it existed and then proceeded to magically take out the partially trained new villain. In addition, Daisy didn't really seem to know how to swing a sword T_T... plus the camera angles were pretty bad.

 

[Mighty Chin]

Seems like this thread likes the movie, which I guess I'm not too surprised.

Still thought it started off really good, and then somehow turned utterly terrible. Han Solo's death was obvious from a mile away and was SO cliche (seriously, Kyl'o-ren (sp?) is such a coward that he needs to ask his dad to come over and then kill him as he pretends to waver on crap). The light saber fight scene and the convenient "ground rips apart" were absolutely terrible too. Rey was just like "oh right! the force. Forgot about that" and then proceeds to massacre the "injured" but trained Kylo. She was never trained in the force, never knew it existed and then proceeded to magically take out the partially trained new villain. In addition, Daisy didn't really seem to know how to swing a sword T_T... plus the camera angles were pretty bad.

Yeah I don't you really got this movie or have a basic understanding of what the Force is.

 

[Theodoricos]

Seems like this thread likes the movie, which I guess I'm not too surprised.

Still thought it started off really good, and then somehow turned utterly terrible. Han Solo's death was obvious from a mile away and was SO cliche (seriously, Kyl'o-ren (sp?) is such a coward that he needs to ask his dad to come over and then kill him as he pretends to waver on crap). The light saber fight scene and the convenient "ground rips apart" were absolutely terrible too. Rey was just like "oh right! the force. Forgot about that" and then proceeds to massacre the "injured" but trained Kylo. She was never trained in the force, never knew it existed and then proceeded to magically take out the partially trained new villain. In addition, Daisy didn't really seem to know how to swing a sword T_T... plus the camera angles were pretty bad.

Kylo wasn't "injured", he was injured.

 

[Pagusas]

Seems like this thread likes the movie, which I guess I'm not too surprised.

Still thought it started off really good, and then somehow turned utterly terrible. Han Solo's death was obvious from a mile away and was SO cliche (seriously, Kyl'o-ren (sp?) is such a coward that he needs to ask his dad to come over and then kill him as he pretends to waver on crap). The light saber fight scene and the convenient "ground rips apart" were absolutely terrible too. Rey was just like "oh right! the force. Forgot about that" and then proceeds to massacre the "injured" but trained Kylo. She was never trained in the force, never knew it existed and then proceeded to magically take out the partially trained new villain. In addition, Daisy didn't really seem to know how to swing a sword T_T... plus the camera angles were pretty bad.

I completely disagree with you on the cinematography of the final fight scene, it was amazing and expertly done. Hell we've been throwing around epic gifs in this thread of it and it still looks amazing.

Of course she doesnt know how to swing a sword, she's defended her self with a staff her whole life. The fight scene was epic, we've already talked about how Kylo wasnt trying to kill her, he wanted her to join him, than she litterally brute forced her way to a win over a guy seriously injured.

Hans death was telegraphed, but thats ok as it was done well. Kylo wasnt faking it when he was torn, thus why the director choose to both say it and SHOW it visually with the colour of his face changing via the light (another conversation we've been having, just read above).

I agree with you the first 1/3 was the best part of the film, but your criticisms seem weird considering you are reading the same thread as the rest of us and we've been boiling down these scenes. Harrison's acting was on point, especially when he screamed "Ben!", just perfectly done.

 

[MMarston]

She was never trained in the force, never knew it existed and then proceeded to magically take out the partially trained new villain. In addition, Daisy didn't really seem to know how to swing a sword

So you hated that she seemed skilled - but hated that she didn't look skilled?

 

[Snake]

Can anyone link me to the post that breaks down the Kylo vs Rey/Finn in gif form? It was in one of these OTs. And I can't find it.

Not sure if this is what you meant, but here's some fine gifs courtesy of plop:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190496850&postcount=1901

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190450868&postcount=1714

 

[Oozer3993]

In the scene where Kylo is talking to Vader's helmet, about the temptation of the light, he says something along the lines of 'show me again the power of the darkness, grandfather.' I wonder if he's supposedly getting visions, or voices, from 'Vader'. Maybe Snoke playing tricks on him?

That line is probably left over from an earlier draft of the script when an Anakin/Vader Force ghost actually talked to Kylo.

That script is totally legit. It came straight from Disney to WGA members

Interestingly, the script seems to have been scrubbed to match the final film almost exactly. It doesn't appear to be the shooting script which included several scenes and moments not seen in the final film. The same thing happened to A New Hope ([TongueInCheek]as if TFA didn't rip off that film enough![/TongueInCheek]). The version released to the public (naturally now called the "Public Version") was changed to match the final film exactly. And had the title "A New Hope" attached to it 2 years before it would be added to the actual movie.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

That basically nails what I was going for. And it's my take away from FAR too many professional film reviews. I get that vibe sometimes with music reviews too, but not as badly. Surprisingly video game reviews on average strike me as the least offensive. Probably because the most pretentious of the "critic" type would see video games as beneath them in general.

Your heirarchy of pretension there is almost completely inverted, I feel.

The bigger problem overall is that a lot of people tend to treat the basic attempt to look at artistic works (or even refer to entertainments as artistic works) with a significant level of depth as inherently bullshit. There's a basic level of distrust even entering into the review/critique, as people are more or less steeling themselves for the point at which "oh you're just thinking too hard and trying to impress people too much with how smart and satisfied you are with yourself" completely takes over.

Which is interesting because most often that sort of distaste makes itself apparent during prolonged discussions on social media, discussions that are in and of themselves attempts to look at artistic works with some sense of depth and meaning.

So yeah, everybody wants to be a critic, but nobody wants to be a critic. Everyone wants to be smart about something, but nobody wants to get caught out there trying to be smart.

 

[Koriandrr]

Poe is gay right?

I thought he's droid-sexual. I mean that (bro?)romance with BB-8 is stronk.

 

[Halcyon]

Was there anything you didn't agree with?

I listened to it again. I think it's fine, it just sounds like she's reading an essay in front of the class, then kinda goes on to say things like "reductive" and "deeply conservative narrative" "lasting systemic changes" "binary" like it means anything. Like she's teaching people how stories should be constructed.

Then goes on about FarScape.

Nevermind I hate it again and i'm punching babies.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Interestingly, the script seems to have been scrubbed to match the final film almost exactly. It doesn't appear to be the shooting script which included several scenes and moments not seen in the final film. The same thing happened to A New Hope ([TongueInCheek]as if TFA didn't rip off that film enough![/TongueInCheek]). The version released to the public (naturally now called the "Public Version") was changed to match the final film exactly. And had the title "A New Hope" attached to it 2 years before it would be added to the actual movie.

It's a "conformed script" made to match the film. Apparently, all movies do this for legal/IP reasons, but a lot of them don't get leaked. Disney usually keeps a lockdown on their scripts.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Forgiveness and doors won't come from others. When it did from Han, Han paid the price. Both did. The character will find redemption, but it will be the only thing he does for himself. If they write this correctly, Finn and Rey won't...nay...can't do shit for the guy.

Great great character.

I feel like it's more interesting to pursue the useless tragedy of his arc than it is to try and give him one last exit to the light, as narrow as it might be. That sense of tragedy hasn't really been pursued in Star Wars, where that style of last-second redemption was retroactively turned into the entire point of the first six films.

I think it'd be more powerful if he realizes and finally surrenders to the mounting futility of the path he kept choosing, over and over again, when he didn't have to. That's a particular type of emotion that the films haven't gone after before, and this character feels like a great in to that kind of ending. An ambitious prince who becomes a mad king who despairs at the end at what a pointless, awful existence he chose for no other reason than his misplaced pride.

 

[Pagusas]

That line is probably left over from an earlier draft of the script when an Anakin/Vader Force ghost actually talked to Kylo.

Was that ever confirmed of actually existing? I dont see how they'd explain that unless they were suggesting Snoke was faking it.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Your heirarchy of pretension there is almost completely inverted, I feel.

The bigger problem overall is that a lot of people tend to treat the basic attempt to look at artistic works (or even refer to entertainments as artistic works) with a significant level of depth as inherently bullshit. There's a basic level of distrust even entering into the review/critique, as people are more or less steeling themselves for the point at which "oh you're just thinking too hard and trying to impress people too much with how smart and satisfied you are with yourself" completely takes over.

Which is interesting because most often that sort of distaste makes itself apparent during prolonged discussions on social media, discussions that are in and of themselves attempts to look at artistic works with some sense of depth and meaning.

So yeah, everybody wants to be a critic, but nobody wants to be a critic. Everyone wants to be smart about something, but nobody wants to get caught out there trying to be smart.

Nicely put.

I don't appreciate the disregard for looking at things a little deeper than surface level (and it is indeed itself a bit pretentious). Just like I don't share the feeling that one should sometimes turn one's brain off.

 

[Ether_Snake]

The more I think about it, the worst Finn is as a character. In the novel he's basically top class, #1 Storm Trooper, and he's so good that he has developed high levels of empathy for his peers (as in, he's so good he can get the job done while saving his fellow soldiers rather than just doing what the job requires of him). Great, sounds like the archetypal hero character really, full of confidence and compassion.

But in the movie, he's not presented like this at all. Other than going to help Rey when she's under attack, he's basically just trying to run away from everything and cracking nervous jokes. Like I said before he feels more like a character who was teleported from our world to a fantasy universe and just wants to go home, but must ultimately accept his destiny and save this fantasy world, transforming himself in the process.

It's like on one hand they wanted a character who could hold himself up in all sorts of conflicts, but at the same time someone who would be the opposite and would learn to gain confidence and courage which would translate into him saving the day in some way.

I think his arch was poorly thought out. Either they could have just gone "the brainwashing stopped working for some reason" and just go for the amnesic character, that way he still has his skills but is in a state of confusion and fear, or else make him the actual "Slip" character from the novel, the Storm Trooper who was always left behind and had to be saved, and make him transform himself through the movie. In the novel Finn is always saving his ass. Well make it that on the first mission the #1 Storm Trooper dies (Finn) and Slip is left on his own, runs away, but eventually becomes the hero Finn would have been.

Rey isn't that great too because a central part of her character is confusing (the whole family thing), but it's not as bad. Again here they would have been better off making her just too poor to leave Jakku but wanting to, and possibly wanting to find out what happened to her family rather than just wait for them.

I think JJ Abrams really sucks when it comes to characters, he's too focused on action.

 

[Oozer3993]

It's a "conformed script" made to match the film. Apparently, all movies do this for legal/IP reasons, but a lot of them don't get leaked. Disney usually keeps a lockdown on their scripts.

A quick skim through it did reveal one thing I don't remember from the movie:

Rey's lightsaber initiated flashback concludes with a shot of Kylo appearing from behind a tree on a snowy planet. The short description sounds like the shot from the original teaser trailer.

Was that ever confirmed of actually existing? I dont see how they'd explain that unless they were suggesting Snoke was faking it.

Yes. It was revealed in The Art of The Force Awakens. The book contains a couple concept pieces of a half Anakin, half Vader Force ghost.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I think you are on point. There is no happy ending for him. Crossing the threshold by killing Han was it.

I'm really happy Rian Johnson gets to pick up these threads, and to cite the review from earlier in the thread, I really, really hope he doesn't fuck that up. There's a LOT to chew on with Kylo Ren, or at least there could be. That intrigues me, almost as much as the Luke/Rey dynamic.

 

[Shaanyboi]

A quick skim through it did reveal one thing I don't remember from the movie:

Rey's lightsaber initiated flashback concludes with a shot of Kylo appearing from behind a tree on a snowy planet. The short description sounds like the shot from the original teaser trailer.



Yes. It was revealed in The Art of The Force Awakens. The book contains a couple concept pieces of a half Anakin, half Vader Force ghost.

Pretty sure that snow scene was in the movie. It's what results in her falling backwards

 

[-griffy-]

Rey's lightsaber initiated flashback concludes with a shot of Kylo appearing from behind a tree on a snowy planet. The short description sounds like the shot from the original teaser trailer.

There's definitely a shot of Kylo in the snowy forest, but it's not the same shot that was in the teaser.

 

[Lamel]

Seems like this thread likes the movie, which I guess I'm not too surprised.

Still thought it started off really good, and then somehow turned utterly terrible. Han Solo's death was obvious from a mile away and was SO cliche (seriously, Kyl'o-ren (sp?) is such a coward that he needs to ask his dad to come over and then kill him as he pretends to waver on crap). The light saber fight scene and the convenient "ground rips apart" were absolutely terrible too. Rey was just like "oh right! the force. Forgot about that" and then proceeds to massacre the "injured" but trained Kylo. She was never trained in the force, never knew it existed and then proceeded to magically take out the partially trained new villain. In addition, Daisy didn't really seem to know how to swing a sword T_T... plus the camera angles were pretty bad.

Why are you putting quotes around the word injured.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Pretty sure that snow scene was in the movie. It's what results in her falling backwards

You're correct. He's in the vision in the forest. He appears from behind a tree, facing the camera.

Why are you putting quotes around the word injured.

And why is he spelling Kylo Ren like that?

 

[heliosRAzi]

The more I think about it, the worst Finn is as a character. In the novel he's basically top class, #1 Storm Trooper, and he's so good that he has developed high levels of empathy for his peers (as in, he's so good he can get the job done while saving his fellow soldiers rather than just doing what the job requires of him). Great, sounds like the archetypal hero character really, full of confidence and compassion.

My problem with Finn is that they made him a Stormtrooper just because it's a cool idea, but really didn't explore it. We didn't gain any insight into the trooper life except for that they've all been indoctrinated since birth. I would've liked to know more.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I think you are on point. There is no happy ending for him. Crossing the threshold by killing Han was it.

I'm partial to my own theory that Kylo Ren ends up offing himself.