LegendofLex
Member
Him being a Stormtrooper isn't really designed to give us insight into Stormtroopers (which is why we're introduced to him right before he defects, not while he's being trained); it's designed to give us a foil to Kylo Ren.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Him being a Stormtrooper isn't really designed to give us insight into Stormtroopers (which is why we're introduced to him right before he defects, not while he's being trained); it's designed to give us a foil to Kylo Ren.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Trilogy isnt over yet.
Ether_Snake
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I think they could still go for the "Finn was really Slip" idea, but they didn't go enough over Finn bullshitting about himself in TFA. I didn't read the novel, but I wonder if it could still work. It'd be very FFVII-ish, but imagine if FN-2187 (the #1 Storm Trooper) was only awesome in the simulations, and when it came to the real battle he died as soon as he stepped out. Slip realizes FN-2187 can't save him like he always did in the simulations now that he's dead, so he freaks out.
For some reason they mistook Slip as FN-2187 (could have been FN-2187 who did something on purpose, didn't want to go out there and kill people so he faked Slip's death by swapping IDs or whatever, I don't know).
Slip assumes FN-2187's identity, runs away, but is surprisingly really good in this real-world context and becomes the Finn we knew in TFA as a result of having people who believe in him, the usual.
We could find out in VIII that he was the worst Storm Trooper, maybe him boosting the confidence of someone else secretly in a conversation.
I think an audience friendly way of doing that is let's say his Star Destroyer is about to get blown up in IX. Every character has made up with each other and escapes via pod. However, Ren voluntarily stays on despite being implored by Rey/Finn/whoever.
Greg Grunberg said that JJ reeeeally regrets opting out of Episode 8 as he had read Rian's script and was floored by it. Said he wished he had written it himself.
I remember wishing Rian Johnson would do one of these movies and then you responding that he, in fact, was. I am hyped over the moon over this one. Don't know if I can do a media blackout for it.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jj-abrams-only-directing-one-star-wars-2015-12
Oof. Morbid
Now this makes me even more worried about Episode 9.
JJ had the benefit of a reboot to play it a bit safe and an OT writer helping lay the groundwork and then you have Rian possibly knocking it out of the park.....Then we have Trevorrow. Is Rian going to be involved in 9??
Rian is writing a treatment for it. That's all we know so far.
Pagusas
Elden Member
who is Slip?
Ether_Snake
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In the novel, Finn (FN-2187) is the #1 Storm Trooper in the simulations they carry out, he's basically top of the class, part of the "1%" in terms of abilities. Slip is the opposite (nicknamed slip because he always slips), a really bad Storm Trooper who people leave behind but Finn is always saving him out of compassion. Finn get reprimanded for always helping him.
Slip is apparently the one who died at the start of the attack.
But to me the Finn we saw in the movie sounds a lot more like the Slip character from the novels.
In fact I'm pretty sure Finn slips a lot in the movie. Maybe there is a twist about his character, but even if it was the case it would have been poorly setup because there isn't much doubt brought forward over who Finn is in TFA.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
nevermind
heliosRAzi
Banned
I don't see it. And if it's there, it's not working for me. Kylo and Ren barely interact with each other.
Which I would prefer... just not with Lucas at the helm.
But they haven't been released yet, so I'm not going to assume that's where they're going to go.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Well, my idea is that Ren makes up with nobody. He is still full of rage, it's just newly and solely focused inward. He wants to destroy himself, and it will happen quickly and decisively, not as a passive and almost dignified act of going down with the ship.
(Though I agree it might be too dark for Disney.)
LegendofLex
Member
If Slip is the one who Finn sees die in TFA, I have a hard time imagining Finn could be anyone but the real FN-2187 based on your description of him always going back to save people.
Both characters are forced to make similar decisions about which side they're really on:
- Kylo is a member of the First Order who, when confronted with being asked to do something truly terrible (kill his father) goes through with it.
- Finn is a member of the First Order who, when confronted with being asked to do something truly terrible (kill villagers) refuses to go through with it.
Both characters have two major symbolic unmaskings during the film:
- The first is when they first are challenged with the prospect of being just "a creature in a mask" (to use Rey's words); Finn, when he returns to the Star Destroyer having seen what being a Stormtrooper really means; Kylo, when Rey calls him out on being a creep - it's the first time we truly put a face to either of these otherwise faceless characters
- The second is when they're about to make the definitive decision that cements their position as protagonists or antagonists; Finn, when he takes off his helmet and tells Poe "because it's the right thing to do"; Kylo, when he takes off his helmet to face his father
I could go on.
Digital-Hero
Member
Chills reading that.
Ragnorok64
Member
I could understand that working on people that aren't the First Order, but Phasma straight up has access to his baby pictures.
Ether_Snake
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Yeah I don't think the story will go this way, I just think it would have made Finn more interesting as a character for him to be an impostor and actually be Slip. The first order saw him as the weakest link in their tests, but over the course of the movie he becomes a hero (thanks to people believing in him, thanks to being in a "good environment" rather than the first order's), while the one the first order saw as top of the class got shot on his first step out of the dropship.
Heck it could tie in to Phasma being kicked out of the FO in the next movie, she would find out he was Slip, and now that she has been kicked out and become "low" makes her character change as a result of Slip having become someone great. She realizes her title didn't mean much, yadi yadi yada.
Yeah :/
The biggest recurring theme of these threads and pretty much everywhere, is that so many complaints stem from a question not being answered in the film.
It's the first in a trilogy! TFA asks a lot, builds a foundation from which they can answer questions and perhaps deviate from the formula that TFA had to stick with to prove that Star Wars can be good again.
It's the first in a trilogy! TFA asks a lot, builds a foundation from which they can answer questions and perhaps deviate from the formula that TFA had to stick with to prove that Star Wars can be good again.
AlphaStriker
Member
That's in interesting theory, but in the Before the Awakening novel, FN-2187 squad-mates including Slip carried out a kill order for Captain Phasma while FN-2187 did not fire his blaster. So it seems like Finn from the movie is FN-2187.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I'm very excited about Johnson and his apparently weird script but I'm also so damn nervous that he'll fuck it up somehow.
No, I am.
But I agree. I don't think he's coming back to the light side. And I'd love if that was his arc.
I think Ren's final form is going to be much more Joffrey then RoJ Vader.
His adulation for the dark side seems to come from a different place then Vader's or Palpatine's.
Though there is admittedly a number of ways they could go.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
We already dealt with Lucas fucking it up I'm sure we'll be fine with whatever Johnson cooks up
Ragnorok64
Member
It's interesting to note that Poe, Finn's new best buddy, is he one to kill his old best buddy.
demosthenes
Member
Just got back from my 2nd viewing. Enjoyed it more this time. Went with two what I would call Star Wars noobs and they really enjoyed it too. 12:20 showing and I don't think there was an empty seat in the theatre.
Ragnorok64
Member
Am or pm?
I feel like with the Marvel approach being taken, they won't let it get fucked up. Even if that means neutering a risky script that has the potential to be brilliant in favor of something a bit safer with less upside but also less downside.
prag16
Banned
I don't disagree with either of those things. That's not mutually exclusive with deriding that review from several pages back for its pseudointellectual tone. It's not all or nothing and there are degrees of pretension.
@Bobby I'd be interested in how you can possibly say video game reviewers on average come across as more pretentious than film critics. Maybe not a discussion for this thread though I guess.
Ether_Snake
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Well if Finn really is Slip and FN-2187 took Slip's place it would make sense that Finn didn't fire his blaster while FN-2187 (as Slip) would have.
Thing is there's no way the movies will un-canon the previous novels.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
If Rogue One underperforms I wonder if Episode VIII will be affected.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Since we're talking about Finn, here's something to consider.
Remember when Phasma asks FN2187 to "Submit your Blaster for inspection!"
That move right there would have gotten Finn killed. They would have realized that he was the only trooper who did not fire a shot.
That one request could've been Finn's trigger to get out of dodge!
Remember when Phasma asks FN2187 to "Submit your Blaster for inspection!"
That move right there would have gotten Finn killed. They would have realized that he was the only trooper who did not fire a shot.
That one request could've been Finn's trigger to get out of dodge!
I had this thought as well, but rather than loppnig his own head off, it would end with Rey having him wounded and pinned down. She tries to bring over to the light side ala Vader and Luke. But he throws himself to his death instead.
Admittedly way too on the nose, but that's the gist I can see him going to. He's beyond redemption but potentially able to recognize it.
Ragnorok64
Member
With how this one is performing? Doubtful.
I could see oversaturation being a problem in the future. Though, to a lesser extent than CBMs.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I can dig it. Nice bookends, too. I like it, but for me, since we see Finn's change so soon, it doesn't work for me. They don't seem to accentuate each other. It feels thin. Especially since they barely interact with each other. Rey is Kylo's foil.
Pagusas
Elden Member
He was reprimanded? Does that clash with what is said in the movie, Phasma says he has never had any issues or reprimands.
prag16
Banned
This hasn't really happened with the glut of Avengers related films.
As long as they allows VII-IX to breath a little bit, by not following them up almost immediately by X-XII they might avoid any major over saturation.
Like others, i found it a bit confusing with resistance/rebels, new order and new Republic context and where it took place. That as someone who has read probably 70% of the (not canon anymore) EE books and are pretty firm on star wars content. So it's probably more confusing for "casuals" (friend asked me if Yoda is still alive when TFA takes place :lol).
I also agree with others that ren was not handicapped enough vs rey (and finn). Rey is exceptional with the force, no problem, i can accept that but using a light saber "properly" without ever having used one vs a trained saber user... wounded or not...friends said the same.
Overall i enjoyed it a lot. Sets the ground for the two next parts but like some reviews state, they had to play it really really safe and i hope they have some good, fresh ideas now that part VII is a safe sucess.
Don't know if it was the german sub but the Maz creature was over cheesy with her lines. Really bad and was out of place for me.
I also agree with others that ren was not handicapped enough vs rey (and finn). Rey is exceptional with the force, no problem, i can accept that but using a light saber "properly" without ever having used one vs a trained saber user... wounded or not...friends said the same.
Overall i enjoyed it a lot. Sets the ground for the two next parts but like some reviews state, they had to play it really really safe and i hope they have some good, fresh ideas now that part VII is a safe sucess.
Don't know if it was the german sub but the Maz creature was over cheesy with her lines. Really bad and was out of place for me.
Ether_Snake
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But he does submit it for inspection, the movie just doesn't show it. They find out he didn't shoot and is reprimanded and expected to go through re-brainwashing or whatever.
Well Phasma questions why he would save Slip, and told him not to because it put the missions in jeopardy. Probably not an actual "reprimand", but it sounds like one yeah.
demosthenes
Member
pm. Was the first showing today.
I think the key will be, above all else, making good films.
I think they can further help it by doing what you said and also making the one off films feel unique enough that they don't come off like side filler.
B-B-Bomba!
Member
Can we all just agree though that Captain Phasma has to be a relative of Admiral Daala.
NumberThree
Member
I saw the movie for the third time today since I had some free tickets that would have expired (wouldn't have gone otherwise). I think I liked my second viewing the best, three times may be a bit too much for such short time.
I paid a lot of attention to Kylo during the final fight between him and Finn & Rey, and I can't really agree with the people who say Kylo's injury didn't have any visible effect on his actual fighting. He took a long time to recover between swings and had a hard time just keeping up with Rey who was moving backwards.
I paid a lot of attention to Kylo during the final fight between him and Finn & Rey, and I can't really agree with the people who say Kylo's injury didn't have any visible effect on his actual fighting. He took a long time to recover between swings and had a hard time just keeping up with Rey who was moving backwards.
This is a topic that shouldn't even be addressed anymore because of how blatantly obvious it is in the film.
Regarding Maz,
I really really wish they had gone through with making her a puppet and not gone CGI.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Yep! Keep the quality high and they can turn Star Wars films into iPhones. You get a new one every 1 to 2 years and you are happy with it. Why? Because the quality is high, each one brings something new to the table (sometimes even just on the surface) and it replenishes your desire for something new.
If they make a dud though, then they will have a problem.
Randolph Freelander
Member
That could work. The basic idea being that it's an active, willing rejection of redemption that culminates with his own destruction. He failed at being -- even understanding -- his grandfather, there's no need to break the streak during his own death.
NumberThree
Member
Heh, I guess that's true.
I agree about Maz. Or rather, I'd at least want to see what Maz would look like as a puppet.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
EXACTLY!
Nothing wrong with pointing out what you hope to see or even speculate what you think may happen.
All im saying is wait til the trilogy is over before passing final judgement on what they will or wont do, so you dont run the risk of eating crow later.
Lets just hope it doesn't go how 007 did.
Casino Royale blew everyones freakin minds.
Quantum of Solace....was ok. Kinda weird.
Skyfall.....eeehhhhh
Spectre yikes
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Puppet wouldnt have the same effect IMO. I thought the CGI characters looked great. If you are looking for bad CGI, watch the Xmen or Marvel movies.
the black pearl
Member
I kind of see Kylo Ren dieing in Episode 8 when I envision it. But Disney isn't going to do that.
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