DiipuSurotu
Banned
They actually did want to make her a puppet but they ran out of time:
Abrams did want an additional 6 months of production, but Lucasfilm and/or Disney said no. Hopefully Maz will be a puppet in Episode VIII.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
They actually did want to make her a puppet but they ran out of time:
Abrams did want an additional 6 months of production, but Lucasfilm and/or Disney said no. Hopefully Maz will be a puppet in Episode VIII.
Really curious what they would have came up with.
Im not saying the CGI was bad but simply that I would have liked a puppet more.
Its just more Star Wars to me. That one tusked dude with the First Order chick in the bar looked so awesome. I just prefer they kept it in that style as opposed to cg.
I really like skyfall and mostly like spectre though
heliosRAzi
Banned
I'm not passing final judgment on the series. I'm judging a single movie that was just released.
I don't care about eating crow either. GAF isn't life.
Basketball is.
prag16
Banned
There are people who regard QoS more highly than Skyfall? Let alone the consensus you're implying? In my anecdotal experience, NOBODY thinks that. I remember the consensus around Skyfall's release was that it may even surpass Casino Royale (I'd disagree) in many respects.
EdReedFan20
Member
So Star Wars passed Avengers 1 to be the highest grossing Disney movie of all time. Remember a few months ago when some people doubted Star Wars could match or exceed Avengers? It now sits at $629 million. With perhaps another $26-$28 million today, perhaps Avatar's total domestic gross can actually be beaten this weekend (it sits at $760.5 million).
Here's the thing. Spectre is probably the worst of the Craig films. However, I think the hate some give it is wholly unwarranted. In my opinion, it suffers some because of how well received and successful Casino Royale and Skyfall are. When you look at the Bond movies that are critically reviewed as the worst (mainly Moore/Brosnan), it becomes clear that (at least critically) the best Bond movies from those actors are nowhere near the best of, say, Connery/Craig (GoldenEye comes somewhat close). You rarely hear anyone ripping those movies like some do Spectre. It's a curse of success. If you follow up something that was wildly successful, fans are often (and unfairly) harder on the follow up if it doesn't match or exceed the predecessor.
Here's the thing. Spectre is probably the worst of the Craig films. However, I think the hate some give it is wholly unwarranted. In my opinion, it suffers some because of how well received and successful Casino Royale and Skyfall are. When you look at the Bond movies that are critically reviewed as the worst (mainly Moore/Brosnan), it becomes clear that (at least critically) the best Bond movies from those actors are nowhere near the best of, say, Connery/Craig (GoldenEye comes somewhat close). You rarely hear anyone ripping those movies like some do Spectre. It's a curse of success. If you follow up something that was wildly successful, fans are often (and unfairly) harder on the follow up if it doesn't match or exceed the predecessor.
prag16
Banned
Yeah, it has a shot at passing Titanic today, and Avatar on Sunday. nothingstopsthistrain.gif.
the black pearl
Member
It's one of the most depressing missed opportunities, thats for sure, because Craig and the cinematography in that movie are great.
Imperfected
Member
Piloting is a very specific skillset that requires an enormous amount of dedication. That's why most people you know don't pilot planes. That's not different for soldiers; the vast majority of soldiers have absolutely no idea how to pilot an aircraft.
Based on the fact that he was taken on a ground assault, we can assume he's an infantrymen. Most infantrymen don't actually have any experience firing an aircraft's weapons. The closest they get is being a door-gunner on a transport craft, and even then you're only going to have one person gunning out of an entire squad due to the number of mounted weapons vs. the number of troops in the transport.
There are nothing but soldiers on the Starkiller. That means every job has to be done by soldiers or droids. Generally, this means that soldiers who fill other roles (usually lower-ranked, newer soldiers) will have "duty" lists that include things like janitorial work, guard duty, etc. That doesn't mean he's some kind of specialized "Sanitation Trooper". That's ridiculous.
Again, this parallels the way real armies work. You generally do not have janitors on a forward operating base. That means someone has to do the menial, unskilled labor jobs. Every soldier you have ever met in real life has mopped a floor at some point, that doesn't mean they are somehow incapable of fighting.
Every non-ranking Stormtrooper stationed on the Starkiller should have some tasks they are doing when not deployed directly in combat.
Again, that's just normal and sensible. I used to lead Army Combatives exercises for my platoon, I taught other soldiers how to fight hand to hand. The first advice I always gave them was, "Don't, if you can avoid it. You have a rifle for a reason."
Normal people prefer having a gun to a sword, given the option. Jedi are, for obvious reasons, a special exception to this. The fact TR-8R had such a mad-on for personal combat with Finn that he tossed his blaster is far more questionable than the fact Finn would rather have a gun than a sword.
Again, it's a riot control implement. That's why he had the shield along with it; it's directly analogous to a riot control shield. (Which, despite what COD tries to teach people, is not designed for stopping bullets and should not be used as cover wading into a firefight. It's purely for dealing with lightly-armed civilians.)
You bring a couple of them along if you're trying to take captives alive, but unless for some reason the First Order decided to move to doing police operations and no longer wanted to cause any civilian casualties, there wouldn't be any reason to deploy the entire platoon with them.
For an easy analogy, note Flamethrower Trooper in the opening scene. Why is he the only one with a flamethrower? Because having everyone bring a flamethrower would be dumb, even if you're on a search and destroy mission where a flamethrower is actually going to be used. Why didn't anyone bring a flamethrower in the TR-8R scene? Because they were actually looking to take at least some live captives or quell civilian resistance, rather than murdering everyone present.
As stated above, that would be nonsensical. You don't bring a riot baton and a flamethrower to the same battle. Those are about as diametrically opposed as two things can get when it comes to tactical equipment.
I don't really have a problem with Rey being able to put up a fight with her lightsaber. I think people are way too hung up on the idea that there's some discrete "tier" that each character is in, going so far as to say, "Well, if Rey beat Kylo, then obviously Kylo's no threat anymore."
I mean, that's just not how combat works. Life or death melee isn't an "any given Sunday" sport, there is literally never a situation where a person is so "OP" that someone waving a knife at them ceases to be a credible threat. I'm kind of surprised that people even have an intuition for the opposite case, but I guess a generation of DBZ and cornball action movies will do that.
I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, by the way. Obviously, if you had these thoughts, you are not going to be alone in that. There may be a significant portion of the audience who had the same thoughts you did, which means that Abrams could have done a better job conveying the message he intended. No question.
I do think the further you dig trying to justify it, the more nonsensical it gets, though. You should just
let the Force guide you
(I'm not sure what to do about the portion of the audience that needs complete justification for any character "beating" any other character, though. Tell them to stop playing so many MMORGPs, I guess?)
Just got back from a third viewing. There really is a lot of subtle character work happening in this film between Rey, Kylo Ren and Finn but specifically Rey and Kylo Ren. Mad Max has received high praise for keeping exposition to a minimum and telling its story through action. Abrams employs this same approach throughout this movie and if you are viewing the film passively you will miss out on a lot of these little details. Multiple viewings help to put all this stuff in full view. The third time I came away feeling that this is a very good time at the movies and the characters are uniformly strong and engaging. Daisy Ridley is a revelation as Rey and I find myself vibing with Finn a lot more this go around. Despite being portrayed as the new Vader bad ass in the ads, Kylo Ren is actually a lot more and is given the character shadings of a three dimensional human being wrestling with an inner conflict.
As far as the controversial duel, a couple things are at play here and the one thing I never see anyone mention is that Snoke commanded Kylo Ren to bring Rey back to him alive. Ren was NOT going to kill her so he was already handicapped (among other handicaps) in this fight. The final moment of Zen Rey has when she recalls the grace of the force is a great Star Wars moment and the scene has been overanalyzed to death. The moment is a battle of will and connection to the force. Rey lets go, she is free of conflict and the force guides her to dominance. Ren is not as clear minded and is racked with conflict, feeling the pull of the dark and the light. This is what the force has always been about and its expressed beautifully in that scene.
As far as the controversial duel, a couple things are at play here and the one thing I never see anyone mention is that Snoke commanded Kylo Ren to bring Rey back to him alive. Ren was NOT going to kill her so he was already handicapped (among other handicaps) in this fight. The final moment of Zen Rey has when she recalls the grace of the force is a great Star Wars moment and the scene has been overanalyzed to death. The moment is a battle of will and connection to the force. Rey lets go, she is free of conflict and the force guides her to dominance. Ren is not as clear minded and is racked with conflict, feeling the pull of the dark and the light. This is what the force has always been about and its expressed beautifully in that scene.
the black pearl
Member
Finn might be a tad bit contrived, because he makes The First Order look like morons, mainly. But I love the idea behind his character. And we still need more Poe. But I thought Ridely ran circles around Boyega and Isaac.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I love the idea behind him, too. That's why I want more
You started an awakening
Insane Metal
Member
Oh man watched it yesterday finally, damn, great movie! I'm very happy with what Disney accomplished. Good job.
He's not going to die in episode 8 because it would make his arc and actions in TFA utterly pointless. This is now about Kylo falling to the dark side fully and completing his growth as a villain. That needs to be fleshed out in 3 movies.
StopMakingSense
Member
I have to say, one of the things that really brought me out of the moment while watching the movie was Greg Grunberg out of nowhere, for some reason.
OricWindstar
Member
As soon as Abrams was attached, it was to be expected.
the black pearl
Member
I love the idea behind him, too. That's why I want more
You started an awakening
I think the movie should have begun either before or earlier in Poe's mission. That way there's a bit more impact when Finn saves him. Maybe even intercut between the two, but that might be overdoing it.
But the problem is the movie is too dense as it is. To me it might be almost three hours of story packed into 2:20 (or whatever it was).
When he came out, first thing that came to mind was "Oh hey, I remember now that Heroes is still a shitty show."
Me too. My friend and I just looked at each other and laughed.
Yea it's terrible and doesn't help that he has something close to a shit eating grin in every scene he's in
DarkJediKnight
Member
This is the piece that people keep forgetting. Ren DID NOT want to kill Rey. But he was also not trying to get killed. So he was trying to disarm her or convince her to stop fighting "You need a teacher".
It's really difficult to win a fight when you're injured and trying not to kill the other person - when you're wielding a weapon that does precisely that.
There was so much conflict in Ren during that fight. I think that's what JJ wanted to convey.
Anyone who believes that because Rey is stronger with the force would be able to take on the Ren from early in the movie is nuts. He would chop her up in pieces without a contest. Ren is extremely strong in the force - having been a decendant of Vader and Leia. So obviously we'll find out who Rey's parents are.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Is this a Anakin Skywalker quote?
heliosRAzi
Banned
The movie would have to be restructured to make those changes.
the black pearl
Member
I'm probably saying this hastily but I'm a little worried I'll get tired of him. And the most interesting thing about his growth may have already happened, but we'll see.
brandonh83
Banned
Skyfall is heads and shoulders above Quantum and I like Quantum.
Spectre was pretty shit though.
the black pearl
Member
the black pearl
Member
(I also like Quantum, but man)
heliosRAzi
Banned
Depends on how it happens.
I liked Quantum, too. Skyfall and Casino are definitely better.
Very late to post this...
I've seen the film twice. It's very good. Not Empire level, but certainly a hell of a nice return to form after the dreadful prequels. Rey is far more interesting at this point in her arc than Luke was, and Kylo has a lot of room to develop further given how distinctive he is within the saga.
Overall, I appreciated the new characters more than the old ones, and am looking forward to them stepping out further into front in coming entries.
I've seen the film twice. It's very good. Not Empire level, but certainly a hell of a nice return to form after the dreadful prequels. Rey is far more interesting at this point in her arc than Luke was, and Kylo has a lot of room to develop further given how distinctive he is within the saga.
Overall, I appreciated the new characters more than the old ones, and am looking forward to them stepping out further into front in coming entries.
brandonh83
Banned
Apparently I'm fortunate enough to not know who Greg Grunberg is.
You are. I found him distracting as well.
brandonh83
Banned
I just saw a dude. Didn't think anything of it but if the guy has some lame rep I can see how it'd bother some. Such a bit role though, you see him twice I think lol.
Unknown Soldier
Member
We can't because she's in a different universe now, along with Mara Jade, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Pellaeon, Kyp Durron, Jacen and Jaina Solo, Kyle Katarn, Darth Revan, Bastila Shan, and all the rest. They all had to go to make room for Rey, Finn, and Traitor Trooper.
prag16
Banned
Agreed on the first comment. Haven't seen spectre yet.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
See this hypes Kylo Ren's "Lightsaber skills", why too much for a guy that got his ass kiss by a novice that "communed with the force".
Injury or not you'd expect someone heralded as a "Jedi Killer" to perform better than that.
StopMakingSense
Member
I don't hate Greg Grunberg, he's just recognizable enough that in the middle of rallying everyone to fly off to fight Starkiller, he just stands out so much when he pops in out of nowhere.
brandonh83
Banned
I have to say I really like the freighter sequence. I liked the groups after Solo, IMO it really helped add some new lore and I love scary space monsters. It didn't add much to the actual plot, but it felt right to have, as soon as we meet Solo again that he's pissed some people off, and running into Han = running into trouble. While it was an action scene it was a nice and fun deterrent to the main plot and it was hilarious seeing that Han is still doing his Han thing.
I enjoyed both Skyfall and SPECTRE. This is another one of those times when I just don't agree with the majority of gaffers when it comes to movies. I thought they were very Bond like movies. Very 70's era style flicks.
I feel the same about The Force Awakens. It's a very 70's style movie, but with some slick presentation that we just haven't seen in these movies before. The Prequels were doing a Flash Gordon esque film, even moreso than the Original Trilogy, despite the over abundance of CGI.
I just hope that in Episodes VIII and IX, we don't stray too far from what has been set up in VII. I don't want them to somehow nerf Rey, or alter Kylo's trajectory because of loudmouths on the internet. I think both characters are fascinating, and something we haven't realy seen in protagonist and antagonist leads in a Star Wars film before. I love that Rey is powerful, and full of potential. I love that Kylo is wrestling with his light side, trying his hardest to become greater than his grandfather, despite knowing, deep down inside, that he may never be. His arc will be an interesting mirror to Rey's.
I'm excited to see more Phasma and Poe in the future, hopefully. I'm curious what Snoke's game plan is, but ultimately, I don't think it's going to matter. I really think that Kylo is going to betray and murder Snoke in episode VIII. A very unexpected moment, that could easily play with the audiences expectations of VIII potentially trying to ape The Empire Strikes Back. By episode IX, I expect Ren to be a formidable foe to Rey and Finn. When they encounter each other again in VIII (if they encounter each other in VIII at all), the outcome is going to be very different than The Force Awakens. I don't think Rey is going to win the battle. She'll probably be rewarded with a Skywalker limb loss (I'm guessing an entire arm, so she can rock a badass Furiosa robot one in episode IX).
For all of the talk about how TFA is a retread, the pieces just aren't set up for the dominoes to fall in the same way as the OT. The principle characters are just in very different places mentally and emotionally than the OT crew. Even the situation is more dire. Yes, Starkiller base is destroyed, but so is the Republic. The Resistance is all that is left of that ideology, and they aren't exactly numerous. The First Order lost their super weapon, but I imagine they are far from defeated, and more than likely outnumber the remaining Resistance fighters. The hopeful ending of TFA is Rey finding Luke Skywalker. Outside of that, the situation is really bleak. I'm super interested in seeing where the story is going next. I don't think the OT is a proper tool to use to gauge where this new trilogy is headed.
EDIT: I also liked the freighter scene. I thought it was fun, pulpy adventure stuff that, yes, definitely reminded us that Han is an ass who's mouth gets him into the shit about as often as it gets him out of the shit. Maybe more. There was some funny back and forth there, and yes, not every scene has to be dripping with plot relevant details. Sometimes a fun aside is a fun aside. This scene mainly served as an introduction to Han Solo to the part of the audience that has maybe never seen the original trilogy, and has no idea who Han is, or what he's about. I imagine that in those three minutes before the monsters get out and attack, the audience knows all they need to know about Han Solo to like him. It also has Rey fucking up and releasing the tentacle monster. People forget how clumsy she is about many things throughout the movie.
I posted the same reaction I had to that a while back. So insanely weird to see such a random actor.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Poor Roodown
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Spectre is a Roger Moore version of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, starring Daniel Craig as Pierce Brosnan.
It's also about 35 minutes too long. But most Bond movies do that.
It's also about 35 minutes too long. But most Bond movies do that.
brandonh83
Banned
I was actually enjoying Spectre until the third act. It just fell apart and got so messy and unfocused, and the main threat felt so boring and unintimidating. And this coming from the blockbuster defense force captain. Opening was good, a lot of the second act was fine, but the action just lacked any oomph or thrills and yeah the last act was just dull as dishwater to me. The Skyfall climax, while people poke fun at it for having a similar setup as Home Alone (which I think is a dumb as fuck complaint) was extremely exciting and we'll done. Spectre's finale was shit by comparison.
Like that car chase with Bautista... I mean nothing happened. It was just fast car driving. No real suspense, just shots of cars going vroom vroom. Absolute zero creativity.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Who in Yoda's beard is Greg Grunberg.
bearythebear
Member
He's the Porkins of this movie. Just more things in common with ANH.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I loved that it also had kind of a classic Han shot first moment when he threw one of the bounty hunters who was running away into Shuma Gorath.
Honestly I don't get why people complain about the usage of the old characters in this film when Han has just as much screen time as Rey. It's the most used his character has been since Empire Strikes Back.
edit: Since we're talking about fighter pilots, where the hell is Wedge Antilles :/
you dropped the ball on this one JJ
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