ive been "done" with this show for five seasons. i need a drink.
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*SPOILERS* The Walking Dead TV show, leaks, and comic book SPOILER discussion thread
- Thread starter Cornballer
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ive been "done" with this show for five seasons. i need a drink.
Bloodsent
Member
Here is a thought. You are just needed to provide subtitles, referencing the audio. You don't need to be given the video footage that might give too much away to go along with those screams to do your job do you?
Trying to be optimistic here...
echoshifting
Banned
Wouldn't you expect at least some dialogue to follow Lucille? "One day I'm going to kill you?" "Ta ta?"
You would think. But maybe that part is saved for the opening of season 7. They could simply have an overhead view of the Lucille victim's body so we can identify it and end it that way. They wouldn't have to send that in for subtitling I don't think.
Bloodsent
Member
Exactly my thought. If I were going to end the season on a "cliffhanger", I would do it with a death, let that sink in, not the unphasing threats that Rick tosses at Negan.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
That's what they should do. The way Negan's introduction in the comic plays out works perfectly fine for TV. You don't need to change it at all.
And yet here we are, with the showrunners/AMC getting all clever, thinking a cut to black will get people talking more than not pulling your punches and just showing the damn thing.
Can you imagine if a show like Game of Thrones did this with their big deaths? I'll shit on the TV adaptation of GoT quite a bit but the bigger death scenes like the Red Wedding or the end of season 1 or the Mountain and Viper fight, they didn't back down on those. They didn't cut to black (maybe episode 9 of season 1 sort of did) or avoid the gore and at the very least, you had some immediate follow up with those big deaths so you didn't just end the seasons on those.
The last couple seasons of TWD have generally been about the show kind of getting back on track for me and following the comics a bit closer, which is a good thing! But bungling Negan's introduction with possibly not killing Glenn or at least major character(s) but then also stringing that along as a mystery until next season with a lame cliffhanger? Come on now.
If they do that, I truly hope it blows up in their face cause that's some grade A garbage storytelling. Cliffhangers work if you follow up on them relatively quickly, not letting it fester for 6 months or so. That's terrible storytelling and especially after the lame attempt at a cliffhanger with Glenn earlier this year, basically just contempt for the audience.
If they want to generate buzz for the show, just have Negan smash Glenn's skull in while he's trying to whimper Maggie's name and everyone is freaking out around him. That'll get people talking more than some lame cliffhanger that people will just wind up spoiling months before next season even airs.
I mean, whether you show the death or not, it's still a cliffhanger. The good guys have been laid low by the terrifying new bad guy that's here to stay. You're still getting the viewership bump and having people discuss the shit out of the end of your season. Except if you don't show it, it's going to be tainted by a lot of "what a lame ending" talk especially in the wake of what they did to Glenn this season.
It just doesn't make a lot of sense to draw it out.
It just doesn't make a lot of sense to draw it out.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
i am super not comfortable with the idea of a cliffhanger ending to this season. i've been reading the comics for 10+ years, and sort of stopped watching after season 3 because shit got straight boring and i figured i already knew most of what would come next (and what supplanted the comic material was totally disappointing to me at the time); i binged the next couple of seasons to catch season 6 all caught up, but i'd be totally okay with another few years break if the cliffhanger is real, for one because binging s4-6 was fucking awesome and totally changed my mind on this show (as it began to embrace its destiny as a big dumb spectacle) and also because i don't think i could handle several months wait just to resolve the one thing that's been on my mind since they started teasing Negan to begin with. being a fan of Venture Bros. is hard enough. cliffhanger? i've got too much shit on my plate this year irl to deal with, this is my fucking off time right here. i can wait til' 2017, maybe binge the entire all out war arc. til then i'm comfortable with just swinging by the shop once a month to pick up a new issue featuring Mostly Consistent Plot Progression! instead of waiting months for half a season of cliffhangery goodness.
this is a tangent but i really hope that the show doesn't just time-skip like the comic did and we're treated to an entire season of slight time-skips totaling the 2+ years or whatever after All Out War, the show is getting a little too close to the comic a little too fast and I'm sure the showrunners could inject a few interesting and fucked up slice-of-new-life stories into that period.
seriously, the savior body count at this point is way higher than in the comic iirc. if these leaks are anything to go by, and i hope that they're not, then i'm assuming Daryl gets the bat if only because Glenn is the assumed option at this point with every other Walking Dead internet tabloid spoiling that shit for non-comic readers (and why not just kill him there instead of cliffhanging and keeping people wondering, if not for the fact that Glenn's death is what a significant portion of the fanbase sees coming?), and because Daryl is getting a bit tired as a character. I mean, seriously, where the fuck do you bring him next? beyond all the near death experiences Glenn has gotten the kind of development in Alexandria that might have saved his life in the comics at least on the merit of not being totally played-out. Daryl? still pretty much the same guy as he'd been since Beth died, still barely getting along in a perpetual state of not giving a fuck about anything besides being a constant badass, can't even crack a goddamn smile. but maybe they both get it, Daryl and Glenn. That's my hope, the gut-punch this show has been sorely lacking to me ever since they skipped out on half of the Governer's atrocities.
this is a tangent but i really hope that the show doesn't just time-skip like the comic did and we're treated to an entire season of slight time-skips totaling the 2+ years or whatever after All Out War, the show is getting a little too close to the comic a little too fast and I'm sure the showrunners could inject a few interesting and fucked up slice-of-new-life stories into that period.
seriously, the savior body count at this point is way higher than in the comic iirc. if these leaks are anything to go by, and i hope that they're not, then i'm assuming Daryl gets the bat if only because Glenn is the assumed option at this point with every other Walking Dead internet tabloid spoiling that shit for non-comic readers (and why not just kill him there instead of cliffhanging and keeping people wondering, if not for the fact that Glenn's death is what a significant portion of the fanbase sees coming?), and because Daryl is getting a bit tired as a character. I mean, seriously, where the fuck do you bring him next? beyond all the near death experiences Glenn has gotten the kind of development in Alexandria that might have saved his life in the comics at least on the merit of not being totally played-out. Daryl? still pretty much the same guy as he'd been since Beth died, still barely getting along in a perpetual state of not giving a fuck about anything besides being a constant badass, can't even crack a goddamn smile. but maybe they both get it, Daryl and Glenn. That's my hope, the gut-punch this show has been sorely lacking to me ever since they skipped out on half of the Governer's atrocities.
Ultra Numb
Member
The drama between the two biggest TWD spoiler forums is quite amusing.
How so?
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I'm on the fence about the cliffhanger if it happens. I feel like drawing it out will only lead to disappointment. But it would definitely get the fans talking during the break...but that's gonna happen if you just have Negan smash a head in.
It's a super important scene. A true turning point in the comic, so there is a lot of pressure to stick the landing here. They already botched The Governor. They gave him more characterization than in the comic, but he was toothless. They've been making all the right moves recently, so I hope they don't stumble here.
The mid-season finale was some serious bullshit. It should have ended with Carl getting shot in the eye. So with that in my mind, I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled some bullshit here too.
It's a super important scene. A true turning point in the comic, so there is a lot of pressure to stick the landing here. They already botched The Governor. They gave him more characterization than in the comic, but he was toothless. They've been making all the right moves recently, so I hope they don't stumble here.
The mid-season finale was some serious bullshit. It should have ended with Carl getting shot in the eye. So with that in my mind, I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled some bullshit here too.
Ultra Numb
Member
I agree with Ubertag though, some of it is pretty petty. However you did ask, I'll explain the jist of it.
Basically, Spoil The Dead is one of the oldest TWD spoiler forums. Back in the day it was absolutely the go to place for spoilers. Anonymous sources would go to them first, they'd get all the traffic. However, a few years ago the site owner went on a huge ban spree, banning many of the sites most loyal and dedicated members. Many people [including myself] in the crossfire that were merely in contact with the banned were also banned. He'd permanently ban people on assumptions.
The many that were banned came together and created a site, it's changed and moved a bit since then but its now known as The Spoiling Dead Fans. For the 2-3 years TSDF has been the top-dog, they've been the ones to release the majority of spoilers. Tyreese/Bob/Beth/Noah deaths, Carl's eye, Glenn's "fake death", all the Q&A's - the list goes on and on. TSDF has blown up in such a short amount of time.
Meanwhile, back at STD the members there aren't allowed to credit TSDF. There's actually a system in place to this day that if you mention "TSDF" or "TheSpoilingDeadFans" the post is automatically sent to moderation to be edited or deleted. Although they don't do it anymore, they used to even remove watermarks from TSDF spoilers and replace it with their own. Even more petty- people that have donated to the site have been banned for merely asking why the system is in place.
tldr; Spoil The Dead's bad rep lead to a steady decline, TSDF gained blew up, has a good rep. Some people are salty about that.
This is of course true, they could always make two versions of it and air only the one where the victim is revealed. But the way the whole scene is put together, I really doubt it, because of the way it's edited and even though i hated it as a fan, it's actually well made. But yeah, I won't say it's not possible.
UberTag
Member
There is historic precedent for an added scene after the credits. The Morgan reveal during the Season 5 premiere was relegated exclusively to the Talking Dead. I'm trying to recall whether or not that was leaked out ahead of time to spoiler sites or not but it was NOT part of the episode nor did it need to be transcribed for foreign markets as it was completely visual in nature.
Ultra Numb
Member
WTF. How did I not notice this before
That's Steven Ogg [Trevor from GTA]
That's Steven Ogg [Trevor from GTA]
That's a great point, does anyone remember if Morgan leaked for S501?
Yes, in the italian version that was a post-credit scene.
So true. If this is really how AMC handles the finale it'll serve as the mark of how executives can ruin something.
I mean, I'll wait to see it. But damn. Between this and Batman, rough weekend for nerds lol.
SneakySneaks
Member
I thank God that Vince Gilligan told them to fuck off and shopped Breaking Bad around after they started to play games with him.
If this happens I'll put the blame on Gimple and the people in charge of making the show. Executives didn't write the dumpster stuff, they didn't write the MSF, or the finale. That's on the creative group.
Because something to fear is far too menacing and exciting than the watered down substitute we're getting. I just spent a half hour complaining with my comic book guy about how disappointed we are on this direction. Getting these feelings out in the open was a little cathartic
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Well, its not exactly giving me confidence in the showrunners/ AMC people when they can't even get the name of the episode right. Not that it really matters in comparison to a lame cliffhanger but again, the comic kind of nailed this stuff, don't fix what's not broken.
UberTag
Member
Perhaps the Season 7 premiere will be called "Something to Fear".
After all we won't find out Lucille's victim until then.
That said, I think an episode title is just about the last thing people should be getting worked up about.
metsallica
Member
AMC owns the show and executive meddling is what caused the constant showrunner shuffle. Put 2+2 together and it's not hard to figure out why Gimple has stuck around as long as he has. Of course that's just cynical speculation, but...
More_Badass
Member
Random thought: if it's a POV cliffhanger, why would they even need to make a kneeling dummy? Which was seen in that Instagram pic posted a few pages back
UberTag
Member
I think it's a safe assumption that they filmed the entire scene already back on November 13th. That's been the case regardless of whether they went with a cliffhanger or not.
It also sells the cast as being genuine when they commented on the scene making them sick to their stomachs.
Just because the audience is given the POV treatment doesn't mean they're going to bring the entire cast back in May and shoot the remainder of that scene. That scene is done and in the books. No more filming to be done.
Additional details on Negan and Lucille from one of The Spoiling Dead Fans moderators...
Some folks are even speculating that they're going to tap dance around the Lucille victim's identity for a bit to start off Season 7 and delve into Dwight / Negan backstory to hold off on the reveal and milk it as long as possible.
Also, this is apparently the entire script for the Lucille scene from one of the many translators for foreign markets out there. Because everything else has leaked thus far, why not this too?
LowParry
Member
I'm almost certain they will do this. Something I've thought about is not only the wait, but the draw out of revealing who with Season 7. I think I'm going to hate this show after next week.
8BitsAtATime
Member
Well....people are going to be pissed at the way it ends. I can't believe they fucked it up.
More_Badass
Member
Any point in hoping after the "Damn", they enter a overhead shot set to some folksy song a la Arson's Lullaby and Lead Me Home, as Negan walks away and the group grieves over the victim?
styl3s
Member
I have a feeling they purposely left out a final shot so people who have seen/see it early can't spoil the big death.
Either way i am ok with it ending without knowing because it builds suspense and speculation and it's amusing to hear a few people say they will stop watching if they do that, you know damn well you are gonna tune in on the next season premiere.
Either way i am ok with it ending without knowing because it builds suspense and speculation and it's amusing to hear a few people say they will stop watching if they do that, you know damn well you are gonna tune in on the next season premiere.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Wow they took the comic script almost line for line.
It's possible there's something but still it's not looking good.
It's almost exactly like the comics its just missing Negan's cussing is all.
That script is not a proof of the cliffhanger, everything is possible.
But there are people who have seen that scene, and they confirm the cliffhanger, so the full scenario is not promising.
NoLongerALurker
Banned
Goodness, reading that script is so fucking good. But, then knowing it ends in a cliffhanger is so fucking bad. It hurts. Hurts my heart.
the_firewithin
Member
Geez. The reaction in the OT is going to be good though at least.
Probably going to get a lot of "I'm done with this series" talk.
this is the only reason most people (well not most but at least comic readers) keep watching this shitshow is to see neegan and they are going to fuck it up. I wouldnt blane the "im done with this show" people
LowParry
Member
Honestly if they really do screw up this whole Negan thing, I may just call it quits. Though the wife is going to eat this all up and demand I continue to watch it with her. Eh, I mean why not right? There's a lot of good things coming up anyway. At least Game of Thrones is approaching soon.
styl3s
Member
I still don't buy that that's how it's going to end because from casting and people on location will end up giving away who it was before the next season even premieres and you leave at a cliff hanger like that believe that people are going to be working extra hard getting snapshots of who is on set and who is doing scenes.
I feel like the people who have seen the episode didn't see the full thing why would AMC show such a prolific scene to people when everything leaks even with NDA's? Why risk ruining one of the biggest moments in the shows history because someone saw it a week early and decided to be a dick? Maybe i am wrong and maybe they decide to do it this way but if they do then internet detectives find out long before the season premiere it's going to kill all built up momentum going into the premiere.
You don't need that surprise to bring people back which is why this bugs me. Personally, you show it then him saying something while walking away? That makes me wanna watch the fallout even more.
UberTag
Member
You'll have to ask AMC why they decided to cliffhang the most prolific scene in The Walking Dead comics knowing full well the Lucille victim will leak out about two months from now (still might wind up being Aaron) and enrage/alienate countless fans in the process all in the name of a tired whodunnit hype exercise that simply can't work in this era of information accessibility.
Your points are perfectly sound. It's why we all refuted to even entertain the possibility of a cliffhanger as recently as a week ago. And yet here we are. They're doing it anyhow. Because they're tone deaf. And whether they face any repercussions or accountability for this decision or not falls entirely on the show's fans.
Don't forget we have another death fakeout in a little over 2 hours that they're already hyping up on Twitter.
Your points are perfectly sound. It's why we all refuted to even entertain the possibility of a cliffhanger as recently as a week ago. And yet here we are. They're doing it anyhow. Because they're tone deaf. And whether they face any repercussions or accountability for this decision or not falls entirely on the show's fans.
Don't forget we have another death fakeout in a little over 2 hours that they're already hyping up on Twitter.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Buzz and social conversation, my friend. This reeks of AMC seeing an opportunity to milk a TON of PR and discussion around the episode.
For those of you that are either NBA or Knicks fans, I am consistently never surprised at the terrible decisions AMC makes since they're owned by the Dolan family, the same owners as the Knicks.
SictorVullivan
Member
"Taking it like a champ" versus "He's taking it like a champ"
Maybe more evidence they are trying to keep it ambiguous since we won't see who gets killed?
I hope not.
Maybe more evidence they are trying to keep it ambiguous since we won't see who gets killed?
I hope not.
Was hearing rumblings so I jumped in here. What's really annoying if the cliffhanger crap ends up being true is you know they're gonna be on Talking Dead acting like it's some bold and brave creative choice they made, rather than doubling down on the bullshit that people hated about the Glenn fake out (wasn't the fake out itself that was the problem really, it was the bullshit ambiguousness and dragging it on for weeks), which will show they didn't actually learn from that mistake or they don't give a shit.
UberTag
Member
If anything, I still think there were a few people out there willing to turn a blind eye to the Dumpstergate shenanigans because they at least had the prospect of Glenn getting his skull bashed in 6 months later and the thought that, "Hey, these people I'm watching the finale with will be in utter shock because they now consider Glenn to be indestructible after that and all of his other close calls. I can't wait to see the reaction on their face when he meets Lucille."
Even that allure will be gone with a cliffhanger followed by an extensive break from the narrative. They'll tune back in for October and whether it's Glenn or anyone else (whether they've been spoiled or not) they'll merely shrug their shoulders and move on because they haven't been invested in any of these characters for months anyhow. Who cares if they die?
My hunch right now is that they'll drag it out for the premiere. We'll get a huge back story ep on Negan and Dwight and the Saviors. It'll then jump right back to where we're leaving off next week and they'll actually SHOW us the Lucille victim and a little bit of aftermath... just to rub salt in our wounds. "Here's the episode ending you guys wanted 6 months ago! We're giving it to you now. We just wanted to delve into some of what makes Negan tick first and to string you along for half a year. Enjoy!"
SictorVullivan
Member
Agreed
While the thing with Glenn was so stupid, what made it even more annoying was that they dangled and teased that shit for ages, instead of giving us answers straightaway they stretched it out and followed up that episode with 90 mins of Morgan and a guy protecting a Goat (I actually liked that episode), the point remains you just know they are gonna stretch this out so much just for the "drama".