Support NeoGAF

[Instro]

Ano Hana 8

Wow after all the complaints yesterday I was thinking the episode was actually going to be terrible. I'm assuming people are annoyed that they didn't have Menma do this sooner? Because there was never really any doubt that she was a ghost after the first episode or 2.

 

[Izayoi]

Concept art for Penguin Drum by character designer Lily Hoshino:

http://i.imgur.com/PegQM.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
What's Anal doing with that poor penguin?

 

[Lafiel]

Come on people, that scene at the end of Anohana wasn't the worst part about the episode (although it was one of the worst) it was the overblown melodrama throughout the entire episode that i feared that the series would get to, especially that scene with anaru lulz.

 

[jman2050]

Ano Hana 8

Wow after all the complaints yesterday I was thinking the episode was actually going to be terrible. I'm assuming people are annoyed that they didn't have Menma do this sooner? Because there was never really any doubt that she was a ghost after the first episode or 2.

It isn't really that. In my eyes, the show is trying to be really really melodramatic without giving me a reason to care about any person in the show.

I guess in my eyes you can't JUST rely on untimely death alone to fuel your drama. Every single event that's happened in this show has revolved entirely around Menma's death, and while this isn't a problem when you're just starting your show, by the 75% mark, that just plain isn't good enough to be emotionally effective.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Come on people, that scene at the end of Anohana wasn't the worst part about the episode (although it was one of the worst) it was the overblown melodrama throughout the entire episode that i feared that the series would get to, especially that scene with anaru lulz.

Right, this past episode and that scene in particular went past the point where I could take the melodrama seriously. I don't feel like the characters have earned their tears.

 

[Izayoi]

Ano Hana 8 - Being a bitch really is in this season. Holy Christ, her mom needs to step the fuck off. Everyone being a big crybaby was obnoxious too, I'm past the point of caring about anyone except Menma now. Also, why the fuck didn't they do this the first episode? Fucking stupid.

 

[Instro]

It isn't really that. In my eyes, the show is trying to be really really melodramatic without giving me a reason to care about any person in the show.

I guess in my eyes you can't JUST rely on untimely death alone to fuel your drama. Every single event that's happened in this show has revolved entirely around Menma's death, and while this isn't a problem when you're just starting your show, by the 75% mark, that just plain isn't good enough to be emotionally effective.

Now this is a complaint I can understand, I was more referring to some of the kneejerk reactions yesterday about the plot points of the episode. I do think that with some extra episodes that developed some of the characters better or at least fleshed out their backstory the overall plot would be much better. As of now it completley hinges on Menma. We all knew the major drama was coming, but its difficult to be invested if you dont really care about the characters involved.

 

[Izayoi]

We all knew the major drama was coming, but its difficult to be invested if you dont really care about the characters involved.

I still like Menma, but everyone is just boring. I've had close childhood friends die, and they are blowing this way out of proportion as far as melodrama goes.

 

[trejo]

C 8

So we've made it to the Shit Got Real episode, what with the sudden plot out of nowhere and all. Frankly, the teacher dude held out longer than I expected. That's commendable, I guess.

Still wouldn't peg the show as being really good. Take that, Jexhius!

 

[Uchip]

I still like Menma, but everyone is just boring. I've had close childhood friends die, and they are blowing this way out of proportion as far as melodrama goes.

this is Japan dude

 

[Infinite Justice]

I still like Menma, but everyone is just boring. I've had close childhood friends die, and they are blowing this way out of proportion as far as melodrama goes.

Anime.

 

[jman2050]

I still like Menma, but everyone is just boring. I've had close childhood friends die, and they are blowing this way out of proportion as far as melodrama goes.

Well I should point out that I don't think excessive melodrama is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, yeah, I imagine most people even when they're extremely sad or depressed don't start bawling their eyes out at the slightest provocation. This is fiction though, you have to exaggerate to get your point across a lot of the time.

Even with that said, it's still overdone in this show and they don't give me a reason to really sympathize with their plight. Yeah, death of a close person sucks, and it may take a long time, if ever, to truly get over it, but that's not enough to sustain a story.

 

[Risette]

Well I should point out that I don't think excessive melodrama is necessarily a bad thing.

But it is.

 

[Uchip]

But it is.

its also a part of japanese media culture

 

[Geneijin]

Well I should point out that I don't think excessive melodrama is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, yeah, I imagine most people even when they're extremely sad or depressed don't start bawling their eyes out at the slightest provocation. This is fiction though, you have to exaggerate to get your point across a lot of the time.

Even with that said, it's still overdone in this show and they don't give me a reason to really sympathize with their plight. Yeah, death of a close person sucks, and it may take a long time, if ever, to truly get over it, but that's not enough to sustain a story.

You'd be very much surprised actually. It's very likely to happen when the person has no outlet for her feelings and repressed them as she has been doing. Problem is they haven't built her character as such where you could suggest she's prone to that. The scene just becomes awkward than melodramatic personally.

 

[jman2050]

I'm not going to argue further on the merits or believability of melodrama unless you really want to push it, but if you guys seriously think that this is an anime-only/Japan-only thing then that's just willful ignorance.

You'd be very much surprised actually. It's very likely to happen when the person has no outlet for her feelings, repressed them as she has been doing, and continually stay in her fascinated state with her related repression. Problem is they haven't built her character as such where you could suggest she's prone to that. The scene just feels awkward than melodramatic personally.

Yeah I agree completely (assuming you're talking about that scene with Anaru), and I'm certainly not trying to say most people are emotionless robots or something like that.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Seems ABF hates characters that do some evil stuff for some reason.

Why should I like supposedly good characters who do some fairly evil things once in a while? That's not something that's going to make me like them...

I love how after the cheerleader scene (which in itself was absolutely ridiculous) I was pretty much playing the entire last scene in my head before it actually happened, and when it ended all I could do was shake my head and laugh.

The show is a total disaster and it's all the better for it.

Disaster? The show is doing exactly what it set out to do, be completely ridiculous and cross the action-movie and harem genres. It's completely ridiculous, but that was the whole point... of course, yes it's quite bad, but it's the entertaining kind of bad for sure.

As for this versus the other two similar shows with that same voice actor in them, I can't say anything about Shana, but having watched some of Zero no Tsukaima, this is way more interesting than that. I lost interest in that show after a couple of episodes and just couldn't go on any more. I did try again with the third season, but I don't think I got through more than one episode before giving up on it again. Sure (in addition to harem) that was fantasy while this is modern Japan action movie, but despite my preference for fantasy in general, Aria is definitely the more fun show to watch.

 

[Risette]

its also a part of japanese media culture

It's a part of everywhere media culture used by writers who aren't talented enough to write convincing, realistic drama.

 

[Articalys]

Now this is a complaint I can understand, I was more referring to some of the kneejerk reactions yesterday about the plot points of the episode. I do think that with some extra episodes that developed some of the characters better or at least fleshed out their backstory the overall plot would be much better. As of now it completley hinges on Menma. We all knew the major drama was coming, but its difficult to be invested if you dont really care about the characters involved.

Agreed. It's a shame, really. Another show with an interesting scenario but ruined by pacing and being shoehorned into a 12-episode season instead of being given room to breathe.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Disaster? The show is doing exactly what it set out to do, be completely ridiculous and cross the action-movie and harem genres. It's completely ridiculous, but that was the whole point... of course, yes it's quite bad, but it's the entertaining kind of bad for sure.

.

Indeed, Hidan no Aria is absolutely a HUEG SUCCESS if you are capable of not taking things too seriously. If you aren't, well that's not our problem!

And yeah, that scene at the end where they threw the pom poms in the air and shot them to bits pretty much summed up the whole show and how fuck awesome it is! Haters gonna hate get holes shot in them!

 

[Geneijin]

Yeah I agree completely (assuming you're talking about that scene with Anaru), and I'm certainly not trying to say most people are emotionless robots or something like that.

Oh, I didn't read your comment like that. Don't worry about that.

I just wanted to say how not unlikely it was for a simple provocation to ignite an emotional breakdown. The other person has similar problems except my complaints for that is much more.

 

[Dynedom]

C - 08

The pacing seemed a bit off, considering we were thrown head-on into a major new development. I don't really mind it though. Really good episode, in fact. Msyu

Spoiler

being semi-revealed as Yoga's "daughter" in a possible future is an interesting twist. Well, that's what I took from that scene anyway

Does this show have it's own OT? It might be the best show this season. I look forward to new episodes of it more than anything else.

 

[7Th]

This is a pretty amazing PV, specially considering the show it is advertising.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Aria the Animation 1-4

So adorable! I can't help but have a huge grin on my face when watching. It's so sappy, but so sincere. I love the design of the characters and Neo-Venezia, and they're used for some beautifully laid-out scenes. The calm music, leisurely pacing, and optimistic world create a peaceful escape from the chaotic real world. I'm glad a show like this exists.

 

[trejo]

This is a pretty amazing PV, specially considering the show it is advertising.

Disgusting 3D women? It's pretty clear the people behind this don't understand their audience. At all.

On the other hand, there was not a single boy in sight so at least they got that part right.

 

[7Th]

Disgusting 3D women? It's pretty clear the people behind this don't understand their audience. At all.

VAs count as 2.5D!

 

[trejo]

VAs count as 2.5D!

Is that a compromise you're willing to take? Your waifu must be disappointed.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Gosick 16-17 - I'm five episodes behind, now that episode 20 just came out? How did THAT happen? And I like this show quite a bit, too... well, I'm starting to make up for it, I just watched two of them. These two episodes are part of a new arc. It's another one set away from the academy; this time Victorique disappeared, taken by her (not nice) father to the Beelzebub's Skull, a building by the sea that's a convent I believe, despite its ominous look and bad reputation. Kind of looks like a jail... anyway, in the Great War (WW1), there was a bomber raid on the place while it was being used as a hospital. During it a giant image of the Virgin Mary appeared in the sky, and the bombers all crashed. In the present, there's a magic festival there once a year, and Kujo goes because he wants to rescue Victorique.

Also in attendance is a random suspicious guy

Spoiler

who gets killed in a magic trick that apparently was rigged to cause his death, in some fashion we don't know yet -- the mystery isn't solved as of the end of ep. 17

, Brian Roscoe, Victorique's father the marquis or whoever he is, and... Victorique's mother, who we hadn't seen in person before I believe! She looks a lot like her daughter, but it was interesting to see her... she's not been a very good mother, Victorique said that she can only remember seeing her mother once in her life.

Spoiler

Her mother says that she loves her daughter anyway, and part of that is the father's fault anyway -- he locked up Victorique, after all. But still, she could have been there more sometime I'm sure... Also, her mother and Brian Roscoe seem to be working together, on some suspicious endeavor. There was a box hidden in this building the last time Brian Roscoe was here, when he set up the giant Virgin Mary with a projector (he used a projector and slide to make it appear in the sky apparently), I think. I'm not entirely clear, the show is being a bit confusing.

Kujo also has a verbal confrontation with Victorique's father, as well. As always he's only interested in using Victorique in various ways, in this case in order to try to draw out her mother, because he wants to see her again (or use her again, for something? Who knows.). She was there of course, as I said above, , but he never saw her. Kujo of course defends Victorique. Given her father's power and how much of a jerk he is, our heroes have their work cut out for them.

In the end, floodgates are raised (somebody set it up for them to go off so that this would happen) and the area begins to flood, so everyone has to flee for the train to leave.

So, this arc isn't entirely over, there's some more to go on the train as they leave... I wonder what happens next.

So yeah, overall, two great episodes, as good as the best in the series. As often this arc so far is more about the action, scenery, and plot than it is great mysteries, but I'm fine with that, the show works very well as it is.

 

[Regulus Tera]

This was posted in one of the Doctor Who threads.

For it to be the work of only one man it's not bad.

 

[Jex]

It isn't really that. In my eyes, the show is trying to be really really melodramatic without giving me a reason to care about any person in the show.

Well I think it's a combination of that, underutilised ghost powers and constantly meandering plot threads. They're all fairly damming.

C 8
Still wouldn't peg the show as being really good. Take that, Jexhius!

How can you know that for sure until the show is finished!

I'm not going to argue further on the merits or believability of melodrama unless you really want to push it, but if you guys seriously think that this is an anime-only/Japan-only thing then that's just willful ignorance.

People will argue anything.

 

[JKTrix]

I'm curious to see what people are really mad about with AnoHana. I missed a lot of this thread so maybe people have gone into it in detail, but I'll take the cliff's notes version of it.

Generally though, I'm feeling that it's a show that wants you to fill in the blanks. It says what it needs to say and wants you to imply things, though the most recent episode just spelled a lot of things out quite plainly.

 

[Jex]

But it is.

Nope, there's nothing inherently wrong with melodrama.

It's a part of everywhere media culture used by writers who aren't talented enough to write convincing, realistic drama.

Define what traits a 'realistic' character has and what tight rules bound their actions. Especially with teenagers I've witnessed enough counts of 'melodrama' as opposed to 'realistic drama'. In fact, a state of melodrama might actually be a realistic state for some, although dcertainly not all, teenagers.

The problem with that Ano Hana episode was not, as some may posit, the simple presence of "melodramatic" scenes. It was, as Geneijin noted, that certain characters hadn't been defined and characterised in a manner which would lead them to do the things they did at the times they did. Anjou hadn't been defined as a character that regularly engages in fits of 'melodrama'. This is the problem, rather than just "melodrama is bad".

 

[Instro]

Toriko 9

So first actual fight with a bad guy rather than a giant animal. All in all a pretty cool fight scene, although I wonder how long the names for their moves are going to get. The attack Toriko used at the end was like 10 words long lol. The new guy who showed up at the end looks like a badass.

 

[Steroyd]

I'm curious to see what people are really mad about with AnoHana. I missed a lot of this thread so maybe people have gone into it in detail, but I'll take the cliff's notes version of it.

Generally though, I'm feeling that it's a show that wants you to fill in the blanks. It says what it needs to say and wants you to imply things, though the most recent episode just spelled a lot of things out quite plainly.

• Menma didn't use her ghost powers because of writers convenience.
• We only know of their playful time together in 3 words "Super Peace Busters" how are we meant to give a fuck about their tears?
• The only flashback we've seen is that "one fateful day" making their trauma to Menma's death feel weak. - plus the durama all hinging on said flahsback.
• It's one step closer to KEY.

 

[JKTrix]

'Definition' is the problem then, I guess. It's obvious that all of these characters have been damaged by Menma's death, reasons for which had been implied before this most recent episode just explained it.

There's a difference between just having a close friend die, and the guilt of feeling like you directly caused that friend to die.

This was brought up in the chat so I don't know it was echoed here. Someone said that this would be more effective if they were still children or something, and I argued that being teenagers is the perfect time to be dealing with it. The point in the chat was that as kids, you just brush this stuff off, which is probably true. From the first episode, we see that everyone else besides Jinta had moved on with their lives, not letting it outwardly affect them.

They've had time in the years that passed since her death and the first episode to get over it. Anjou isn't a character that regularly engages in fits of melodrama. Yukiatsu isn't a character that regularly engages in fits of crossdressing. It isn't until Jinta comes back that all those repressed feelings come forward, in addition to other emotions that are strongest when you are a teenager, and they don't know how to deal with these feelings effectively.

So we're dealing with guilt (death), lust (the various relationships and man juices), and jealousy (the various relationships they wish they had/have) amplified by prerequisite teenage angst. An appropriate recipe for melodrama.

• Menma didn't use her ghost powers because of writers convenience.
• We only know of their playful time together in 3 words "Super Peace Busters" how are we meant to give a fuck about their tears?
• The only flashback we've seen is that "one fateful day" making their trauma to Menma's death feel weak. - plus the durama all hinging on said flahsback.
• It's one step closer to KEY.

1. Menma's delay in using her powers can be attributed to her youth. Most recent episode made an offhand comment about time 'stopping' for her when she died, evidenced by how she acts. Mentally, she's a little girl who just didn't think to overtly do it beforehand. She's aware that they couldn't see or interact with her, but it was never a problem because she was happy they were together. She didn't feel the need to try and contact them directly until she realized there was real conflict over her existence. It's not like she's experienced at being a ghost.
2. We don't have to care. Just understand.
3. The flashback is probably the last time they were all together before the first episode of this show. As far as we know, nothing else happened between them.
4. No arguments there. I only like AnoHana up to a point. Just don't like seeing a show that is trying to make us read between the lines get derided because they're not feeding us every detail of the plot.

 

[Articalys]

• Menma didn't use her ghost powers because of writers convenience.
• We only know of their playful time together in 3 words "Super Peace Busters" how are we meant to give a fuck about their tears?
• The only flashback we've seen is that "one fateful day" making their trauma to Menma's death feel weak. - plus the durama all hinging on said flahsback.
• It's one step closer to KEY.

It's funny you mention that, since I keep finding myself reminded of Angel Beats -- half-season show, interesting premise, everyone has a tragic backstory, marred by horrible pacing and lack of development.

 

[jman2050]

Denpa Onna 8

Last week's episode was very weak but we're definitely back to form here. Episode focuses entirely on Meme's development and finally brings some context to the rather odd events of the past few episodes. The last scene in particular did a really good job telling us a lot of what kind of person Meme is without being overly sentimental, expository, or dramatic.

The show seems to be settling into a sort of Slice-of-Lifeish deal centered around Erio's trauma, and it works here since the show is funny and keeps itself absurd to maintain interest. Also Shaft being Shaft is a plus.

 

[Instro]

• Menma didn't use her ghost powers because of writers convenience.
• We only know of their playful time together in 3 words "Super Peace Busters" how are we meant to give a fuck about their tears?
• The only flashback we've seen is that "one fateful day" making their trauma to Menma's death feel weak. - plus the durama all hinging on said flahsback.
  [*]It's one step closer to KEY.

Is Menma going to go full retard at the end of the show?

 

[Dresden]

ghost cancer

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Is Menma going to go full retard at the end of the show?

Menma should totally go NICE BOAT and murder everybody to prove she isn't a ghost.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Gosick 18 - What in the world? That made no sense... this is a "train mystery" episode, and bad things happen while they travel on the train. Suspense, shooting, people getting killed... all here. Confusing plot points too though.

First, I don't get who's on what side. There's an older woman, a girl, a younger guy, an older guy, and our two heroes in the train car. They talk in code, calling themselves by made up roles. Apparently all are either from the Science Academy or Magic agency, I think. They are clearly enemies, but I have no idea who's on what side.

Spoiler

By the end all but the younger guy (and the heroes) are dead; the older guy kills the woman after she tries to take the box and escape (and attacks him when he confronts her); the woman was the one who dug up the box last episode, apparently. Then the younger guy fatally poisons the girl (she seems to be from the Science Academy), and she takes the box (from the older guy's pockets) in the commotion and runs. The older guy, angry at the girl's poisoning, chases the main characters, trying to stop them from saving the train, because there's a bomb on the tracks up ahead and someone didn't check in or something so now it's going to go off. He seems to want it to, but falls off the train while chasing our heroes as they try to stop the train from a bomb. Then they find the dying girl in the engine car; there's no engineer, had he been killed earlier or did she kill him in an effort to destroy the train? It's an effort to keep the magic academy people from getting the box, apparently -- better for everyone to die than their enemies to get the box, and Victorique gets the box. There's no engineer on the train, and the train controls seem damaged. The girl tells them about the bomb on the bridge before dying. If she did any of that stuff in the engine (killing the engineer or something, maybe damaging the controls), why sabotage it by telling them about the bomb? I don't get it, it doesn't make sense. Just because Kujo is nice to her? Victorique manages to shoot the bomb before the train passes that point... good work. The rest of the people on the train live.

Then, our two heroes and the younger guy go through the stuff in the box, which shows that the science academy head actually came from the village of the Grey Wolves. Also, the younger guy was being blackmailed or something, he was there because the magic people have his sister hostage or something like that. Victorique lets the guy go. Um, why? He just killed someone... Victorique confronts him and explains to him how he poisoned her, but doesn't do anything beyond that. I assume he had no antidote, but it's pretty odd that they'd do so little, and would at the end just let the guy go. I wonder if I'm missing something... was she working for badguys or something? Was the older guy on her side? He clearly was not good, with how he wanted the train to be destroyed with that bridge. But maybe not, he was trying to stop them from saving the train while she didn't seem to be... I don't know, it was too confusing for me to make much sense out of it, annoyingly.

I'd ask for other peoples' opinions on what happened in this episode, because I really am confused and would like to hear what someone else thinks, but I don't know if anyone is still watching... too bad, Gosick's pretty good.

 

[jman2050]

Generally though, I'm feeling that it's a show that wants you to fill in the blanks. It says what it needs to say and wants you to imply things, though the most recent episode just spelled a lot of things out quite plainly.

I'm going to be completely frank about this and say that this simply isn't acceptable in what's supposed to be a character drama. I'm not saying give me everyone's life stories, but give me reasons to care and give me some sort of foundation for each character's personality. Without that, the emotional attachment becomes no different from reading about a random tragic death in the newspaper. You feel sad/mad about it as you're reading and may even feel sympathetic to an extent, but in the end you just go on with your life without a second thought because, let's face it, you don't know those people.

 

[Izayoi]

I'd ask for other peoples' opinions on what happened in this episode, because I really am confused and would like to hear what someone else thinks, but I don't know if anyone is still watching... too bad, Gosick's pretty good.

Really? I thought it was pretty clear who was on which side. They lay it out pretty flatly at the end of the episode. Watch the last few minutes again, it's all explained.

 

[Steroyd]

1. Menma's delay in using her powers can be attributed to her youth. Most recent episode made an offhand comment about time 'stopping' for her when she died, evidenced by how she acts. Mentally, she's a little girl who just didn't think to overtly do it beforehand. She's aware that they couldn't see or interact with her, but it was never a problem because she was happy they were together. She didn't feel the need to try and contact them directly until she realized there was real conflict over her existence. It's not like she's experienced at being a ghost.

You only have to go as far as the Nokemon episode (episode 3?), this episode had Menma eat a pokko(?) stick right infront of Poppo, but Poppo had his head conveniently turned away right until she swallowed it that's Sixth Sense level BS right there, and she was taking baths and stuff all the way through the series I find it hard to believe that she didn't think to do any of this type of stuff infront of other people, especially when Jintan kept being labelled crazy whenever he mentioned her name.

3. The flashback is probably the last time they were all together before the first episode of this show. As far as we know, nothing else happened between them.

I'm talking about flashbacks from way before Menma died, the only playful thing we've seen them do in the past is sitting off in the base and everyone getting upset, how long were they friends before then, how did they meet etc. A tiny hint of it was in the diary... but that's all we have, they could still cover it further in the next few episodes, but it would have put more weight in this episode if we were shown a bit more.

 

[Jex]

Remember when people thought this show was trying to suggest that Menma was a hallucination even thought he show was super heavy handed about ghost powers? It's pretty ironic that

Spoiler

she becomes the most obvious ghost could possibly exist, bar actually appearing to others

.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Really? I thought it was pretty clear who was on which side. They lay it out pretty flatly at the end of the episode. Watch the last few minutes again, it's all explained.

Huh? How so? Just because he was being forced to do it certainly doesn't excuse murder. It's pretty disturbing that they'd just walk away like that.

Also, is this the same box that was missing from under the floor of the Beelzebub's Skull place they just were in, or is this a different box, from earlier, as they reference? Are they both the same, or are they different? I'd think it's the box from the Skull because they were just there, so are both the same box?

 

[mAcOdIn]

Part 3 of 9999, kidding, this is it.
The Twelve Kingdoms

Yeah, I'd been sort of wanting that to happen, but that they had it happen so quickly and with only mediocre foreshadowing beforehand? That's not the way to do it.

Exactly! Like, why even have mediocre foreshadowing when you can have none! That's better, just change everything instantly. Wait no, that's crap, like some other series notorious for instant character development, lol. Again, I just don't get the gripe. It's like saying since they didn't have her do a 180 instantly at the start than instead of spending a few episodes to change her mind, with what you say is weak foreshadowing, they should have what, spent 40 episodes on it?

Also, as I said, that her craziness somehow just completely vanishes when she changes her mind on this is also ... convenient. I mean, she'd gone completely nuts. Perhaps accepting things as she did would help that, but I can't quite imagine it just completely dispelling it like it seems to have done.

She was never crazy though, reverting back to her normal sane self isn't that huge a leap to make, it's not like she'd always been angry at the world. That said, I don't think she really went 100% sane either, she's still going for Youko just now to make sure she's fulfilling her role not to take it from her. So she didn't just flip to normal, she took that animosity, guilt and whatnot and merely refocused it.

Basically, I do like that that event happened, I just think they did it in a way that is hard to believe. It could have been done a lot better. But of course, you like her character a lot more than I do, so I'm sure that also has an effect.

Oh sure they could have added something like her going back to her room and throwing something and add a little bit of internal dialog or some shit but I follow media like I follow life, I expect a few things to happen outside of my field of vision.

On that note, as I said, that Rakushun actually helps her so much, after she tries to get him arrested for a crime that she believed he would be executed for, and then tried that again when the first attempt failed, is just... hard to believe. I mean, she did some pretty bad things there! Yeah, it didn't have an impact because he has a super awesome pass, but he should have been a lot more bothered by it than he was... but for plot reasons he had to befriend her instead, because she needed to get to Youko. Why in the world does he keep trusting her after what she did, and with how crazy she was?

I know, the explanation is just that he's really nice and didn't mind because it couldn't affect him, and somehow he just knew that there was a decent person inside her even though she wasn't showing it at all at the time (convenient, that...), but that's some pretty contrived stuff. I know, fiction works on that, but even considering my defense above that doesn't mean I have to like all of it.

Well I dunno why, he's a fictional character so everything's of course speculation and also of course part of it is for the sake of the story but I imagine the other half is because he's self aware. Way back earlier in the series he told Youko how he himself had kicked around the idea of turning her in before they got to En, he didn't, they basically stuck together and stuff worked out, so I think he feels that perhaps that's the way to go.

Once they did get together it quickly got better -- the things he taught her were certainly valuable lessons, and with that, combined with the real life experience in seeing the reality of an execution I could see how that could have changed her, but instead they have the change happen sooner, for no apparent reason. The attempted execution perhaps helped make her change of opinion certain, as she finally could see the reality of what her father had been doing, though, of course.

Ok, what? We're still on this?

Overall I'd agree that her story as it is makes some sense -- this nice guy who knew a lot told her about the world and eventually convinced her that she was wrong -- and they tried to do that story in the anime, but I don't think they got it quite right. I don't know how the original books do things, though, of course.

Eh, I still don't really see where the gripe is.

As with the show overall though, I do think that Shoukei's story is interesting and decently told. For anime this is certainly a quite good character story; like with how in world design TTK tries pretty hard in a field where most anime puts in zero effort, you don't usually get characters with nearly as good character and story progressions as TTK does. I have frustrations with how it does things and some of the characters (like Shoukei), but that doesn't mean that I don't think it's good overall anyway, for sure.

Sounds like the problem is the characters do anything!

I don't hate Suzu, she's not nearly as crazy or deluded as Shoukei was... what's so bad about Suzu? She's okay. I've liked her more than Shoukei all along for sure. I'd say more, but I don't know why you hate her so I can't really reply.

I hate Suzu because she's a crier. That simple. They're both mildly crazy at points in the story, Shoukei being slightly more unhinged but Shoukei's still way cooler because she doesn't cry all the time.

Yeah, this at least we agree on. Youko's pretty awesome.

Aye.

 

[Lafiel]

It's a part of everywhere media culture used by writers who aren't talented enough to write convincing, realistic drama.

Are you saying convincing realistic drama can't be melodramatic?

How can you know that for sure until the show is finished!

If the last three episodes are really awesome or something, i don't think it will change my opinion on the show, a show that is above-average doesn't suddenly become awesome overall if the last three episodes are on a completely different level from the rest of the show!

 

[JKTrix]

I'm going to be completely frank about this and say that this simply isn't acceptable in what's supposed to be a character drama. I'm not saying give me everyone's life stories, but give me reasons to care and give me some sort of foundation for each character's personality. Without that, the emotional attachment becomes no different from reading about a random tragic death in the newspaper. You feel sad/mad about it as you're reading and may even feel sympathetic to an extent, but in the end you just go on with your life without a second thought because, let's face it, you don't know those people.

I'm talking about flashbacks from way before Menma died, the only playful thing we've seen them do in the past is sitting off in the base and everyone getting upset, how long were they friends before then, how did they meet etc. A tiny hint of it was in the diary... but that's all we have, they could still cover it further in the next few episodes, but it would have put more weight in this episode if we were shown a bit more.

Then perhaps the show's biggest flaw is assuming that the audience has a common experience of a close group of childhood friends. You don't have to explain the bond between friends if you've had friends. If there were specific things that happened in the past that were relevant today--frequently seen in 20th century boys--then sure. Like the bug catching. That was directly related to Yukiatsu talking about how Jinta always outmatched him in the eyes of others, even though Yukiatsu was 'better' than him.

I personally think that showing things from the past that have nothing specifically to do with things happening 'now' is irrelevant, and an irresponsible use of the limited broadcasting time the show has. To reiterate my point: the show implies that we know what it's like to have friends. It doesn't need to show us them just being friends as kids if it doesn't directly relate to today's plot.

An example of reading between the lines to get the development you desire: they've said on more than one occasion that 'you guys haven't changed'. This implies that the personalities that they express in that moment are the same as they were when they were kids. But, like I also said before, my feeling is that you don't have to 'care' for the characters, just understand them. This is probably a point where our personal preferences differ.

You only have to go as far as the Nokemon episode (episode 3?), this episode had Menma eat a pokko(?) stick right infront of Poppo, but Poppo had his head conveniently turned away right until she swallowed it that's Sixth Sense level BS right there, and she was taking baths and stuff all the way through the series I find it hard to believe that she didn't think to do any of this type of stuff infront of other people, especially when Jintan kept being labelled crazy whenever he mentioned her name.

You find it hard to believe she didn't do stuff, but that's your mature, logical mind that makes it hard to believe that. Menma is still a child, mentally, who has a slower logic process. Sure, the pocky thing was cheesy. In the very first episode, Menma hugs Anjou and Anjou feels it. And those are just things that didn't involve her clear physical contact with Jinta. So she has had direct contact with them before even then, but they don't see or hear her so they don't know what it is. Like Jex mentioned, it's been obvious that she has some corporeal influence.

When there were fights, which she has tried to break up before, they resolved themselves. So she didn't have the need to try anything further in those instances. However, she learned from those encounters that she can't change anything without communication. The urgency of this was lessened since she thought things were going okay, but once she learned of the real conflict she was forced into action. First it was the phone calls, then it was writing things down and knocking things over. A logical process of a young mind.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Gosick 19 - Eh, okay episode, but not as good as the other ones here, there just isn't as much to this episode. It's an in between episode, introducing the next mystery but without getting too far into it yet. Apparently they want this one to take longer.

This episode also shows us Victorique's mother's backstory in more detail. Her father's really quite evil, what he did to her mother is so horrible...

Also, it brings back the conspiracy element of the show. This is something I don't like very much, so it's part of why I didn't like this episode as much -- being reminded of that aspect of it hurts it a bit for me.

Spoiler

It reminds me of the "secret society that helped rig WW1 or something like that" thing from earlier, and the "there's a storm (WW2) coming etc etc" stuff that the show has mentioned a bunch of times; yeah, WW2 is coming, but in 1924 it's still 15 years off... I wouldn't call that THAT soon... though yes, Japan will be at war in China as of about 1931, Hitler gets power, etc, but this is 1924, when people still thought that there might be peace, not another war. Sure, some people saw another war coming eventually, but still... it's not one of the better things about the show, regardless of whether or not it could be considered prophetic (because some people did see something coming in reality).

Also, Victorique and Kujo are separated yet again. I did like how Victorique tries to find him this time though, a reversal from how it'd always been before.