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Square Enix expects loss of $140 million from cancelled video game title(s)

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Not from some of their bad decisions. But comparing Capcom and SE, the path SE has taken with their premier franchises is probably not the right one.

The comes down to game quality more than anything else, but Capcom has been on the rebound MUCH longer than Square Enix. They had a lot of revenue come in from Monster Hunter and used that money to redo Resident Evil in a successful way that reinvigorated the franchise.

I think multiplatform certainly helped that, but again it was due to quality more than anything else. RE2 could have been a PS4 exclusive and I think it would have still set Capcom on the trajectory it wanted.

Square Enix should have been EASILY able to recover from their stumbles, they have the franchises, they just don't have any faith in them and their talent pool is questionable.

It'll be interesting to see if Capcom tries to do remakes of Onimusha or Devil May Cry, but from Resident Evil to Street Fighter, Capcom is definitely on a stronger footing than Square Enix with legacy franchises.
 

Zheph

Member
The comes down to game quality more than anything else, but Capcom has been on the rebound MUCH longer than Square Enix. They had a lot of revenue come in from Monster Hunter and used that money to redo Resident Evil in a successful way that reinvigorated the franchise.

I think multiplatform certainly helped that, but again it was due to quality more than anything else. RE2 could have been a PS4 exclusive and I think it would have still set Capcom on the trajectory it wanted.

Square Enix should have been EASILY able to recover from their stumbles, they have the franchises, they just don't have any faith in them and their talent pool is questionable.

It'll be interesting to see if Capcom tries to do remakes of Onimusha or Devil May Cry, but from Resident Evil to Street Fighter, Capcom is definitely on a stronger footing than Square Enix with legacy franchises.
At the end of the day, Capcom has a stronger portfolio with more genre variety so the initial comparaison is debatable
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Get what you are saying but it still sold worse than part 1 on pc and switch.

That's not surprising either is it?

Generally no one is going to buy the second game if they didn't buy the first and even the people who bought the first aren't guaranteed to buy the second, especially with so much competition for sales right now. The competition and its price point probably don't jive today compared to people hungering for old school RPGs when the first game released.

Since then we've also had Sea of Stars.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Oh no, they couldn't find a publisher to pay for these games.
This is actually going to be true. I genuinely don't see why Sony would fund exclusivity deals in the future for hundreds of millions of dollars if Sony is the only high end console. SQEX is going to have to rely entirely on their own sales. They obviously can do that, but they've been alienating consumers not on PS for years so it could have been better. I think they'll be fine but they have some thinking to do about the future. I don't see Epic paying for it anymore either. I could see Nintendo still paying for a few of the smaller ones like they usually do.
 
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_Ex_

Member

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Fabieter

Member
This is actually going to be true. I genuinely don't see why Sony would fund exclusivity deals in the future for hundreds of millions of dollars if Sony is the only high end console. SQEX is going to have to rely entirely on their own sales. They obviously can do that, but they've been alienating consumers not on PS for years so it could have been better. I think they'll be fine but they have some thinking to do about the future. I don't see Epic paying for it anymore either. I could see Nintendo still paying for a few of the smaller ones like they usually do.

No smaller ones are probably gone and sony is probably still paying to exclude pc for a few month.
 
Square is really mishandling Dragon Quest, X still being exclusive to Japan is downright criminal. On top of that the Builders series has a cult following around the world and they are totally dragging their feet making a 3rd entry. Either whore Dragon Quest out to the same level as Final Fantasy or take Enix out the name of the company and go back to Squaresoft!
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
I think most of the smaller ones are gone, but we'll probably still get a couple of the core HD-2D ones.

It's a shame. This is the majority of their best output and the stuff I do buy.
Agree, but I think they fired way too many shots in the past few years. Stuff like Octopath or the Live A Live remake are amazing, but others like Various Daylife (the fuck?), that Valkyrie Profile game or Diofield Chronicle seemed like a nice way of burning some money.

It's lovely to see a big company do AA stuff, but imho they lacked focus.
 

Zheph

Member
Agree, but I think they fired way too many shots in the past few years. Stuff like Octopath or the Live A Live remake are amazing, but others like Various Daylife (the fuck?), that Valkyrie Profile game or Diofield Chronicle seemed like a nice way of burning some money.

It's lovely to see a big company do AA stuff, but imho they lacked focus.
Various Daylife (its shit) was likely paid by Apple as it was an exclusivity for a while but I agree it lacked focus
 

Fabieter

Member
Agree, but I think they fired way too many shots in the past few years. Stuff like Octopath or the Live A Live remake are amazing, but others like Various Daylife (the fuck?), that Valkyrie Profile game or Diofield Chronicle seemed like a nice way of burning some money.

It's lovely to see a big company do AA stuff, but imho they lacked focus.

Diofield is a really great game and could have been a great franchise.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Diofield is a really great game and could have been a great franchise.
It sure could have used a bit more of a marketing push, I had to google it because I didn't even remember the name of the game. :goog_relieved:

There's also that one other JRPG that plays like a board game, Voice of Cards, which imo is cool but I bet lots of people haven't even heard about it because of that lack of focus.
 

Zheph

Member
It sure could have used a bit more of a marketing push, I had to google it because I didn't even remember the name of the game. :goog_relieved:

There's also that one other JRPG that plays like a board game, Voice of Cards, which imo is cool but I bet lots of people haven't even heard about it because of that lack of focus.
I tho it was really lackluster despite having Yoko Taro behind, it probably did okay tho as they did two DLC for it and it probably didn't cost much

I liked that one much better:

very cheap also but quite fun and challenging

(yes I am a SE whore and buy 95% of their output)
 

Fabieter

Member
It sure could have used a bit more of a marketing push, I had to google it because I didn't even remember the name of the game. :goog_relieved:

There's also that one other JRPG that plays like a board game, Voice of Cards, which imo is cool but I bet lots of people haven't even heard about it because of that lack of focus.

The biggest mistake was that they cannibalized their own games by releasing stuff to close together. And they did that alot the last few years. People buy square enix game's but time and money is limited.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I tho it was really lackluster despite having Yoko Taro behind, it probably did okay tho as they did two DLC for it and it probably didn't cost much

I liked that one much better:

very cheap also but quite fun and challenging

(yes I am a SE whore and buy 95% of their output)
Dungeon Encounters was awesome.
 

Woopah

Member
There is no way they are cancelling anything Final Fantasy related.
Some FF spin offs did badly so I could see them getting canceled. Not mainline ones though.

Massive mistake not to get Octopath Traveller 1 on PlayStation somehow. Perhaps they're bound by agreement still as I think Nintendo helped fun the first game, but somehow okayed the release on Xbox.
The agreement with Nintendo has most likely expired by now. I think the difference was that MS were willing to pay for an Octopath port, while it wouldn't be that valuable to Sony.
Square is really mishandling Dragon Quest, X still being exclusive to Japan is downright criminal. On top of that the Builders series has a cult following around the world and they are totally dragging their feet making a 3rd entry. Either whore Dragon Quest out to the same level as Final Fantasy or take Enix out the name of the company and go back to Squaresoft!
There were 2 DQ console games last year and two the year before so it is getting somewhat whored out (X not leaving Japan is silly though).
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
The agreement with Nintendo has most likely expired by now. I think the difference was that MS were willing to pay for an Octopath port, while it wouldn't be that valuable to Sony.

If true why was there value in developing the sequel to PS?
 

360fps

Neo Member
Limiting FF to mainly a single platform for many years kept the fanbase stagnant. Exclusivity money can't pay for all those lost potential fans who could have grown up with FF games and become big fans and drop big money later on stuff such as FF mmorpg, statues and other stuff. Smaller fanbase ofc leads to a less investment and cancelled games.
SE did the mistake 20 years ago and not expanding the fanbase came to bite them. GG!
 

Solarstrike

Member
Been playing Just Cause 4 lately. Game is still a riot and runs great now. Devs fixed a lot of stuff just wish they'd add a proper FOV slider. Just Cause V when?

 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Because for the sequel there were no exclusivity deals involved, so there was no reason not to bring the game to PS.

But that isn't what you said. You said that the deal probably expired but they didn't feel like it was worth porting at their own expense.
 

Woopah

Member
But that isn't what you said. You said that the deal probably expired but they didn't feel like it was worth porting at their own expense.
Yes, they didn't feel like covering the porting and marketing cost of a years old title.

Whereas a brand new game would have more sales potential, and the PS version could be marketed alongside the PC and Switch versions.

So the return on investment looked more favourable.
 
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Dr. Claus

Banned
I see you we have another circle jerk doom posting thread about Final Fantasy.

They are more than likely cutting their losses on NFT and GAAS games as the market continues to die for both.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Yes, they didn't feel like covering the porting and marketing cost of a years old title.

Whereas a brand new game would have more sales potential, and the PS version could be marketed alongside the PC and Switch versions.

So the return on investment looked more favourable.

If you were going to market the new game, that same marketing would have covered the original as well. In fact they could have released a bundle.

The costs to port a game isn't that much, so there is more to this story than that.
 
At this point, I'm expecting Square-Enix is going to stop with the timed exclusivity on big games, going forward. I still very much see SIE getting global marketing rights, but I can definitely see FF Remake Part 3 being both a cross-gen game (PS5/PS6) and also PC Day 1. That just seems like the safest assumption to make at this point, barring an acquisition by SIE...and even then, there's a chance it could play out the same way if SIE haven't re-evaluated their own strategy for PC port release timings.

As for games like XI Remake and Tactics Remake (assuming they release)...I think at this point it's 100% safe to say they're going to at least be PS5/Switch 2 Day 1 releases. If they aren't also PC Day 1, they'll probably get PC ports within a year. I could even see them coming to Xbox Series. On one hand, I hate saying this because it just incidentally feeds into the incredibly slimy, deceitful, nasty & propagandistic "anti-exclusivity" narrative that certain shills & fanboys of a certain 3rd Place Platform Holder have been wanting to push for a long time now. However, I can turn a blind eye there and just see things from what's likely best for Square-Enix's business and, incidentally, maybe the timed exclusives aren't what's best for them anymore.

Or even for SIE, TBH. I mean again, what necessarily do they truly get out of Rebirth with a 3 month timed exclusivity deal? Wasn't MS laughed at for the STALKER 2 3-month timed exclusive deal? What's necessarily the difference between them? I think it's dumber that SE (or SIE) put the timed exclusivity period in the commercial fine print, knowing full well it'd be longer than that before any port releases. That is just them sabotaging potential PS5 sales of the game, then acting stupid when they don't hit certain expectations. Like, you did that to yourselves, don't act surprised.

Anyway...yeah, I can definitely see this as the thing that has SE basically move away from timed exclusivity and the usual suspects will think that's a win against "evil" exclusivity, but IMO multiplatform support is only a band-aid solution, especially if actual root problems aren't addressed. A lot of exclusives sell much better than most multiplat titles anyhow, so it's not that exclusivity is the actual problem (except for cheap people or people who vehemently don't want to support a platform because muh console warez). Final Fantasy as a franchise has something of a confused identity, and with mainline installments over the past 15 years, have done maybe too much in drastic changes to the point of dividing hardcore fans and alienating more casual ones, regardless of the actual quality of the games themselves.

I mean you look at things going from FF XIII, Lightning Returns, XV, VII Remake, and XVI, you can see there were massive changes in design from entry to entry, mostly decoupled story narratives, and in some cases not only hefty delays but also a TON of spinoffs with many installments in similar genre types. In some cases, I guess mainly with the VII series, it gets almost Kingdom Hearts level of bad when it comes to important story beats spread out over the main installments and a ton of offshoots/spin-offs, which is a lot for people to keep up with. But at least unlike the Kingdom Hearts games, for the VII series virtually all of those spin-offs and installments have been on the same family of hardware, rather than split across two different brands (Nintendo & Sony) like with KH.

Having said that, I'd go as far to say that the VII Remake series has a similar problem. If you played VII Remake on PS4 but haven't upgraded to a PS5, you can't play the 2nd part of that remake trilogy. And if Part 3 is somehow exclusive to PS6, that just cuts off PS5 owners who had access to Part 1 and 2, but then can't access Part 3. I think that's something of a problem when talking about remake installments for what was originally one singular game, because now not only is someone paying $70 each installment, they're also paying $1500 over three console generation to access them. Looking at it from that POV, getting a PC and just waiting for the ports to come to Steam seems like it'd be a better long-term investment, especially if you're also playing other games that span across generations which may not even be available on new platforms to re-buy, let alone not run on them if certain BC features are missing.

I think Rebirth could've avoided a lot of issues in terms of sales or whatever if it were a cross-gen PS4/PS5 game, specifically for markets like Japan. That said, it's a complicated thing, tho maybe they'd of been better off with a cross-gen release for PS4 & PS5, then do an upgrade for PS5 owners a year later with improved visuals & the such. Just an idea. But yeah, Square-Enix should focus on the root issues that might be stifling growth for FF as an IP; platform exclusivity is on the bottom end of causes for that IMHO. Still though, I can see them wanting to push for more Day 1 platforms, and SIE being content with just having global marketing rights to new installments.

Square-Enix also need to get better at scheduling releases of their AA titles and having a bit smarter marketing for them. It would suck to see them stop making AA games altogether, but you can't bunch like 4 of them together in the span of a single month and expect all 4 to sell well. There will be cannibalization happening at that point, especially during a busy release period.

While I do see Square-Enix probably stopping timed exclusivity for the FF games going forward, I would like to see SIE still work with them on new exclusives. SIE have their own JRPG IP that could do well in co-development with Square-Enix teams, so why not do that? IMO that is a net win and a mutual benefit to both parties to make something happen that wouldn't exist otherwise. Similar could probably be said for co-development/co-funding on revivals for stuff like Parasite Eve, or Einhander, etc. It's very limited to only see Square-Enix's value for Final Fantasy when they have a ton of other beloved IP, and SIE themselves have a lot of beloved IP that could benefit from a co-dev & co-fund partnership between them and Square-Enix.

Limiting FF to mainly a single platform for many years kept the fanbase stagnant. Exclusivity money can't pay for all those lost potential fans who could have grown up with FF games and become big fans and drop big money later on stuff such as FF mmorpg, statues and other stuff. Smaller fanbase ofc leads to a less investment and cancelled games.
SE did the mistake 20 years ago and not expanding the fanbase came to bite them. GG!

This is not the reason (at least, not a main reason) and very stupid to cling to considering all the exclusives that actually sell better than most multiplats in the market. Also for going Day 1 on multiple platforms IP like Yakuza aren't doing magnitudes better in sales than if they were just PlayStation exclusives. So likely a lot of sales on platforms like PC are lateral sales of dual-platform owners opting for one platform over the other to buy the game on, and we already know Xbox is contributing very little to sales of new Yakuza games.

Again that's just one example. There are plenty of others. If what you say was true, no one would be leveraging exclusives in any industry.

The biggest mistake was that they cannibalized their own games by releasing stuff to close together. And they did that alot the last few years. People buy square enix game's but time and money is limited.

Yep, this is a massive part of their problem. But too many people are quick to ignore and jump on their anti-exclusivity talking points because that's the easiest thing to do.

No smaller ones are probably gone and sony is probably still paying to exclude pc for a few month.

IMO both of these happening would be mistakes. The smaller games just need better release schedules and marketing. As for timed exclusivity it'll become increasingly hypocritical of Sony to pay for shrinking timed exclusivity blocking out PC when they are already bringing a lot of their own games to PC (a strategy with its own problems IMHO) and potentially with even shorter windows between console & PC there.

I'd go as far to say, if SIE aren't planning to extend the time between console & PC for their own games (primarily non-GAAS) or even start to do Day 1 for them, Square-Enix should reject any offers for timed exclusivity out of principle. Because at that point, if SIE felt that doing Day 1 on PC was best for their financial interests (it wouldn't be, IMO, but again, different convo), why would Square-Enix not think similar for their own games?

Platform holders gotta lead by example on this type of thing.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
That just seems like the safest assumption to make at this point, barring an acquisition by SIE...
I really don't see any need for Sony to pay them even for timed deals now with Xbox likely exiting. That means, even less need to acquire them. Sony milked them dry and played it perfectly. Maximized any potential system seller element until there's really no other rivals left, but isn't stuck paying their salaries by acquiring them. SQEX games aren't breaking records currently and are slowly trending downward. We're down to about 3 million potential Playstations sold because of these deals.
 

Woopah

Member
If you were going to market the new game, that same marketing would have covered the original as well. In fact they could have released a bundle.

The costs to port a game isn't that much, so there is more to this story than that.
They could have done that, but decided not to.

I think that's way more likely than SE signing a deal with Nintendo that allows OT to come to Xbox in 2021, while still preventing it from coming to PlayStation in 2023 or 2024.
 

yurinka

Member
Any hint on what those cancelled titles might be? I'm a bit worried about Dragon Quest XII and specially the remake of III, which we haven't heard about in ages.
When game publishers or gamedev studios cancel some of their games under development they axe the games that they estimate will be less successful. Normally smaller titles, new IPs that aren't promising enough. Typically are also projects in relatively early stages of development.

Very likely none of the cancelled projects are main titles of their main IPs, as would be Dragon Quest XII or the Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D remake, which also have been under development for a while.

They’re still doing ff9, right?
As far as I remember nobody at Square mentioned to be working on FF9. Just one or two annonymous random internet users.

FFVIII sold considerably more than FFIX (12M vs 8.9M units), so I don't see why they'd jump from VII to IX skipping VIII.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Agree, but I think they fired way too many shots in the past few years. Stuff like Octopath or the Live A Live remake are amazing, but others like Various Daylife (the fuck?), that Valkyrie Profile game or Diofield Chronicle seemed like a nice way of burning some money.

It's lovely to see a big company do AA stuff, but imho they lacked focus.
Agreed, I honestly think their lower budget stuff is some of their biggest blunders. Look at shit like Diofield Chronicles, the Tokyo RPG Factory games, Valkyrie Elysium, SaGa Emerald Beyond, Various Daylife, Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince….

Why do they keep throwing money at this crap? I’m all for mid budget games but these games look like complete ass, it’s a miracle anybody bought them.

Meanwhile you have stuff like Chained Echoes, Sea of Stars, Second Story R, etc that look like the kind of thing I WISH S-E would make with their smaller studios.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
How to save Square Enix:

Step 1: Keep pumping content into FF Online.

Step 2: Start developing gameplay oriented Final Fantasy for release 5 - 7 years from now. Take inspiration from Nintendos recent Zelda titles

Step 3: Figure out what new Live Service game you can succeed at and go all in.

Step 4: Cancel everything else. Devote everything to the above 3 pillars.

Step 5: Profit.
 
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